Love with a straight(?) friend...

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    Jun 22, 2009 6:48 AM GMT


    I'm a student at a university and I'm unusually perplexed about this guy. I met him at my friend's birthday party and we just hit it off; we were drinking buddies the whole night: shots, beer... you name it. We also ended up putting our arms around each other and talking in each other's ears and we even wrestled (yeah, while drunk). And now I've been friends with him ever since (I guess you can say 3 months)! I can't deny the fact that I'm in love with this guy, but I have no idea what his orientation is leaning towards. I've asked around (secretly...) his friends in a casual manner about his past girlfriends and none of them have ever seen him with one. He also doesn't talk about girls nor does he point any of them out when we hang out in groups.

    I'm very skillful when it comes with computers and I was at his place one day waiting for him to get ready; he went out to take a shower and I opened up his internet to check his stuff (yeah I know, shameful! but i'm kind of desperate) and firefox said "do you want to open up last session?". I admit, I was curious. So I clicked restore and what turned up were a few sites and one that was gaytube/video site. I didn't look at it for more than 5 seconds because his roommates came into the apartment and I had to close all the windows! So now I'm stuck in the middle: is he really gay or is he not (or was the window just spam)? He has zero body behaviors or tone to clue in if he's gay (and neither do I...).

    If he turns me down, I don't want to ruin our relationship as friends because we're really in a great friendship. I don't mind if its one sided forever... just hanging out with him is great, but advancing to the next level would be better.

    And what's more, we both smile at each other, very broadly. When we blast metal music in the car, play basketball, tennis, or just the general talk. We're both in great shape; I work out, row, and swim everyday while he just invites me to random athletic games on campus.

    Oh yeah... I forgot to mention. No one knows that I like men, so I have no idea if he thinks I'm straight or not. There was even this girl in the chemistry organization that I joined that likes me and there was drama when I turned her down. The guy that I like is in my group and everything, so he found out about this, but I had to tell the girl that I don't like her because she isn't "the type of girl that I like". So now I have no idea if he has thoughts as to whether or not I'm straight or gay.

    Any advice?

    - Sorry for the rambling and rather odd placement of subjects that I seemed to have introduced into this topic. I'm just stressed about this... and thinking about my next organic exam.

    Any insight is appreciated, many thanks!
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    Jun 22, 2009 7:10 AM GMT
    I know what its like to not have any responses - yet - so I will add what I can; I would say, try to be a bit patient - because yah you don't want to blow (no pun intended) what you have.

    I read your post fairly quickly, so going from memory here. It sounds pretty good that the two of you were hugging - all be it drunk - that night, that's got to show a comfort of him with you.

    Maybe he is in the same boat as you - not out, not sure where to put himself.

    Could you possibly try seeing what he says, when you start talking hypothetically about some gay friend you have (e.g. talk to him about a "friend" but make it seem that this friend is real - I know corny sounding - or base it on your experience and make it sound like a 3rd person; example...."so this guy friend of mine was asking me about stuff I didn't know how to answer......he is all into this guy......(blah blah)...." make it so your chanelling your thoughts thru this so called friend, if that makes sense?! )

    See how dude reacts to your comments; it might be like (he says) .."yah, I think that's the shit, nothing wrong with a guy liking a guy....." or if he goes all homophobe, that may not be a dealbreaker, but might mean he's really homophobe, or insecure....

    Really all you can do is walk carefully, and just go with your best judgement.

    I made one mistake on a guy that I was so into, not sure if he was gay bi or not; I told him I was into him (this while under influence) and let's just say he appreciated it but wasnt into guys - so he says. Very awkward after that, and this was a work setting.

    Had another guy though that told me once (this guy had had a few too, but seemed to be honest), that he done a guy (topped him). This story was told to me years ago, but one time few years after that when I wanted to experiment, he wasnt down with repeating this "topping" with me being the bottom.

    So who knows. I hope my insight has given you something to think about. It's a balance in my opinion of walking carefully so as to not ruin what you have. As for the girl you turned down, that's a tough one. If you know you're not into girls, then yah I guess you have no choice, and tough if your not out (which I'm not really either).
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    Jun 22, 2009 7:28 AM GMT
    Thanks for the reply, Canada.

    I'll keep that in mind and try to casually bring about a quick topic on that note.

    As for girls, it's not as if I'm not into them (I've dated girls), but if I like someone the way I do now... then there's no way that I could substitute anyone for that person.
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    Jun 22, 2009 11:05 AM GMT
    I don't know why, but for me it always works out like this...

    Me: "You're straight, right?"
    Him: "Of course.... aren't you?"
    Me (With a giggle) "Of course not ...didn't you know?"
    Him: "Whoa....icon_eek.gif"
    Me: "What, you've never met a gay guy before? Why're you looking at me like I just stepped out of a spaceship, I'm still the Siya you've been doing chin-ups with, and laughing with..."
    Him: "I see... (look of realization on his face)"

    Given a few weeks, things happen icon_wink.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 22, 2009 12:05 PM GMT
    Yup ..... ball's in you're court my man icon_cool.gif

    You ain't gonna find out if he's gay or at least curious enuf to give it a shot without fessing up
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    Jun 22, 2009 12:25 PM GMT
    Sit with him and watch season # 4 of "Californication" where Hank (David Duchovany) picks up his dad at the airport and his dad is talking about the fight attendant "She had an ass like a 14 year old boy!" and then causally say "Speaking of boy's asses...." LOL
    Naw..I'm just messing with ya! icon_wink.gif

    You have to ask yourself "Do I like being around him because I think we could be lovers or do I like being around him because I like him?
    If the former, then broach the subject, go rent a gay movie like "Geoffery" or "Trick" or "Dante's Cove", or "Eating Out" or even better:"Sloppy Seconds, Eating Out, Part 2" ( Hotter beefcake) and see how he reacts.

    But if you think the latter, then you need to rein in your hormones, take a cold shower and keep it in your pants, because you can rarely, rarely have it both ways.
    {You can turn a lover into a friend but turning a friend into a lover is very rarely a good idea}
    . Exceptions do occur....but do you want to test the odds?
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    Jun 22, 2009 12:41 PM GMT
    He could be bi, which is why he had checked the gay porn, but that doesn't mean he's ready for a gay sex encounter yet. I'd let him make that move.

    But first he needs to know you're gay. I understand that's not widely known there, but he'd certainly know if you guys had sex. You can drop the news in any number of ways, in conjunction with some other conversation topic. I wouldn't do it as a momentous "I have something important to tell you" kind of announcement.

    So you're watching a TV show with gay characters, and you casually say (choosing your own words): "I understand how that happens, I'm gay myself." "I had another girl hit on me today. But I didn't tell her I'm gay, because I don't want that getting around campus, so I had to use all kinds of other excuses before she finally gave up, really funny."

    Then the ball would be in his court, as it probably should be. You've outed yourself, but it was gonna be difficult to move this forward if you didn't anyway, a risk you take.

    If you're mistaken and he's not gay, and drops you as a friend, same thing, a risk inherent in this situation. Either that or simply keep your mouth shut altogether. What's more important to you? The stability of your current friendship, or the possibility that he's gay AND would be interested in you sexually as well?
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    Jun 22, 2009 3:18 PM GMT
    Quit lusting...if u r having fun and enjoying his company, keep it dat wayicon_exclaim.gif Don't ruin iticon_eek.gif
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    Jun 22, 2009 3:28 PM GMT
    Well you said he had a roommate so the roommate could have been on that site as well. He could just be a really friendly guy but only time will tell it's still early.

    Back in college after an encounter i believed my roommate was at least curious but had no clue how to go about it. I remember i had the top bunk and he came in late from work, like 1am and he stripped down to his briefs and was climbing into my bed and i felt him hit my leg but he kept on going so just as a reaction i rolled over and looked at him and said wrong bed and kinda jumped in shock and went to the bottom bunk. The way he was positioned to climb in it was obvious he knew someone was there and was trying to avoid touching them. No words spoken about it after that but we continued hanging out.

    You could always keep on getting drunk together and see what happens. Then you could always blame it on the alcohol.icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 22, 2009 3:33 PM GMT

    Hey welcome to Realjock, Oxonium!

    I think the next time you guys hang you could show him some of your computor savvy on YOUR computer. Leave up the RJ site in one of your open windows, then excuse yourself for a bathroom break.

    Come back, show him more about what you're doing with your computer in another window, minimizing the RJ window when you do.

    Say nothing about the RJ window. Let him.

    ......how's that?


    -Doug
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    Jun 22, 2009 3:37 PM GMT
    Oh for the love of GOD just ask the guy if he has a girl friend. You are asking everbody else except the one person who would know.
    Ask him if he has a girlfriend.

    The fact that you sneaked into his computer and spied on him, dude that is such an invasion of privacy, how would you like it if someone did that to you?
    I would caution you not to do it again. That is not cool at all.

    Well this is a pickel. You could just simply ask him how he feels about what happen in California regarding Prop 8 depending on his response you'll have your answer.

    By all means don't go breaking into his computer again. That's just wrong. Like most of us we know when the last time we logged on the date and time stamp appears on my pc. It just may appear on his.

    Good Luck young man.
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    Jun 22, 2009 3:49 PM GMT
    I'm aware of what I did and I did feel bad about it afterward.

    Nyflava - it was his laptop.


    I'll just let life take its course... guess I just had to ramble a bit. icon_confused.gif
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    Jun 22, 2009 6:00 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    I think the next time you guys hang you could show him some of your computor savvy on YOUR computer. Leave up the RJ site in one of your open windows, then excuse yourself for a bathroom break. ... Come back, show him more about what you're doing with your computer in another window, minimizing the RJ window when you do.
    Say nothing about the RJ window. Let him.
    ......how's that?


    Oh, no… the other day I was on the realjock site at the gym and this guy I wasn’t really that into came up to greet me. I didn’t minimize the window. He saw that, and took it as my way of asking him whether he, well, plays for this team.

    And judging by the approving look in his eye (and not to mention the way he started getting real close to me) he does in fact play for our team.

    And now I’m nervous about running into him again because he probably thinks I was maving a move on him. Awkward!
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    Jun 22, 2009 6:35 PM GMT
    Oxonium,

    I have been in this position several times where a "straight" guy has been giving clues that he is into me. What is funny is that I am totally out and despite this, I get these kinda guys all over me. However in this situation, I think you need to have some chutzpah and pursue him!


    Follow your intuition dude! GOOD LUCK!icon_lol.gif
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    Jun 22, 2009 8:25 PM GMT
    I think Doug gave the best advice. Sometimes its not as simple as just asking him is he gay or telling him you are.
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    Jun 22, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
    gryff88


    Are you kidding me it is very much that simple. It's a fat lot better than invading someone's privacy after the person trusted to leave you alone in his room. The trust was broken with that act. Everything else pales.
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    Jun 22, 2009 8:43 PM GMT
    Oh come on...less of the drama, he was in an awkward position and he let his curiosity get the better of him. Anyway like I said I think Doug gave good advice or maybe the Prop 8 suggestion, that sounds good too.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 22, 2009 9:06 PM GMT
    If you need to invade someone's privacy in order to ascertain information about trying to get into a relationship, you shouldn't be in one with that person. I get why you did it, but it doesn't dismiss the fact that you did it because you can't have an honest and open dialogue with this person, which is what the basis of any relationship should be.
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    Jun 22, 2009 9:38 PM GMT
    masculine31 saidQuit lusting...if u r having fun and enjoying his company, keep it dat wayicon_exclaim.gif Don't ruin iticon_eek.gif


    Best Answer.

    You really shouldn't strain your relationship with this guy by forcing it to fit some mold you think it should have. So what if he's never explicitly said something along the lines of, "I did guys." All that SHOULD matter is whether this guy seems to like you as much as you like him and, based on your description, he does. Since you both enjoy each others company so much, why complicate things by forcing it?

    The way you two guys are going, smiling and wrestling and the like, you're probably already on your way to physical intimacy as it is.
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    Jun 23, 2009 4:49 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    Hey welcome to Realjock, Oxonium!

    I think the next time you guys hang you could show him some of your computor savvy on YOUR computer. Leave up the RJ site in one of your open windows, then excuse yourself for a bathroom break.

    Come back, show him more about what you're doing with your computer in another window, minimizing the RJ window when you do.

    Say nothing about the RJ window. Let him.

    ......how's that?


    -Doug

    I think that this is a really good idea.

    I've had a very similar situation. Knew a guy, became really good friends. He never talked about girls, ever, and even mentioned that they seemed unappealing (the fake done-up girls). I more or less fell in love with him and he started to semi-date this girl. After a while I got fed up, and told him I was gay. He was fine with it and still wanted to be friends but we slowly grew farther apart.

    It's not practical to hang around with a guy you're in love with "just as budz". It's gonna drive you insane, speaking from personal expierence. Tell him, in some way. He may be thinking the same thing as you. You don't want to spend your whole life wondering. Life is too short.

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    Jun 23, 2009 8:23 AM GMT
    You know, just looking through this narrow window into your life that is your first post here, I go "What a wonderful, WONDERFUL thing to be living"; don't stress out.

    First of all. He is your friend first and foremost and it talks good about the way you appreciate him that you are willing to have this crush be a one sided thing if he's unable to reciprocate. That friendship you have is so invaluable, and yet, you say "it would be better to go to the next level".

    But how is that "next level" defined. In terms of "physical intimacy" or "emotional intimacy". I echo part of what StudlyScrewRite said about differentiating which of the two you feel has the more weight in what you want and be a bit extra careful if it is the "physical intimacy" part.

    I also believe that there is path between a real friendship and a romantic relationship. I repeat: a path BETWEEN the friendship and the romantic relationship. I believe that one way to ruin a frienship with the romantic stuff is to suddenly approach your friend from a new untested angle (path) with that. Keep in mind he might be in the process of coming to terms with himself too.

    My only and sole advice would be to build that relationship you might want to share with him from the friendship you already have: if what you are about to do/say doesn't feels like the next natural step: beware, you might jump and make it to the other side, but you might not.

    So how do you know? You feel it when it is the next natural step, you feel it, not in yearnish kind of way, but with true confidence. How do you get there? You're the expert in that: you're his friend, the one who is enjoying getting to know him and loving what you know about him and also being more and more comfortable sharing about you with him. Make this an issue of sharing MORE of you with him, and see what he shares with you of his.

    At first perhaps share your opinions about general things like (as other have said) Prop 8 or the marriage equality spree in New England or a gay acquittance or friend, etc. Then you'll know how to continue from there with what he tells you and what you already know of him. Remember: next natural step.

    On the other hand, he still might turn out unable to reciprocate (or just plainly straight), in that case you still get to love him, even if in a different way. But even in that case, your path would have indeed lead you into a "new level" with him: you'll know more about each other and you'll be able to share more with each other and most certainly your friendship will be, whatever the result, closer.

    Good luck!
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    Jun 23, 2009 9:43 AM GMT
    just ask him if he's gay?
    icon_lol.gif
  • imperator

    Posts: 626

    Jun 30, 2009 11:47 AM GMT
    Just for fun I'm gonna throw a little Machiavellian coming-out strategem out there :-D

    Call him up all hysterical-like and tell him you need to talk to him, and when he gets there you tell him you're freaking out, blah blah blah, your friend so-n-so was visiting and somehow (maybe they snooped on your computer while you were in the bathroom, be creative) they found out your secret that you're gay, blah blah blah, cry cry cry, and now you think they're going to tell [insert important person here, ex. parents, pastor/priest, "everyone," etc] and you don't know what will happen, blah blah blah, and "what should you do?" If you create the pretense that you're all vulnerable 'n shit, then if he's gay too he might feel comfortable confiding that in you as part of trying to comfort and counsel you. And part of that consoling might be him hugging you real tight... then wiping away your crocodile tears... then sucking face (for starters).

    Or, he might not be gay but be okay with it that you are, and then you'll be out to him and potentially feel closer to you since you turned to him as someone you could trust (the irony of which, of course, only you will know until/unless you later 'fess up to the house of lies you've constructed in this scenario). Or, he might be all like "jeez, stay away from me faggot" and terminate your friendship (and at worst, out you to others too, but at least then-- as long as your don't mind maintaining the pretense that you were in crisis-- you can garner sympathy as "that guy whose friend turned on him when he came out to him in a panic") but at least then his hostility might help you get over him that much quicker.

    This is an option that exists, though it's not one I would endorse since it's... you know... completely predicated upon deceit and manipulation which could plant a poisonous seed in your friendship/potential romance with him. But y'know, if we recognize that hardly anyone is ever 100% honest in all of their interpersonal human relationships then we're implicated too and can't really occupy and fortify the moral high ground. So if you can reconcile your conscience with taking that approach then it's something you might have thought of on your own eventually anyway.
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    Jun 30, 2009 12:20 PM GMT
    Be as honest as the situation permits. Otherwise you're constructing a persona that isn't you and doesn't exist, and asking him to relate to this artificial personality instead of you. Even if you're content with being just friends, that's not a real friendship.
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    Jun 30, 2009 1:23 PM GMT
    judging from the information given, I'd say he's at least curious about guys, however in my past I was never a good judge of these things. I think I outed myself (when I was your age) to 3 different straight guys who I thought were interested in me as well lol. They weren't, but nothing bad came of it either. I guess they felt flattered (that I found them attractive, and that I'd confide in them). If he turns out not to be gay and he's a good friend, he should be ok with it, and if he isn't, maybe he's not the kind of friend you need.

    Just ask him about girl friends (like why hasn't he got one?), start a conversation, see where it goes. be casual about it but sincere, don't try to cook up some big elaborate dramatic plan to bring up the subject.