Masculinity and Gay Men

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 23, 2009 8:49 PM GMT
    I wanted to start this post due to another one that was posted recently

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/564873/

    It was about how ,the original poster, didn't like how masculine guys say they are not into the "gay scene" and are uncomfortable around effeminate men. I wanted to maybe try to explain why they feel this way, in a way that is not judgmental because this topic makes many men mad.

    So who do masculine men not like the "gay scene" or effeminate men? Well I think it has to do with their own issues with masculinity. Masculinity ( in the society's definition) is important to these gay men. However, it is seen as almost a joke in the straight community ( not by everyone so keep your pants on!) because in the straight community gay men are supposed to act like girls and be effeminate. Now if a gay man is masculine he is just "acting that way" and it is not who he really is. ( lets not get on the topic of straight acting either lol)

    Also when in the gay community , these men who see masculinity as important to them, these men encounter what they believe the gay scene is ( bars, clubs, drugs, diva worship etc. NOT WHAT I BELIEVE BUT AS AN EXAMPLE!!!) so the men that masculinity is important to them feel like, this doesn't represent who they are. Another thing I think is that ,gay men that masculinity is not important to them often attack the masculine men because they feel like ( the are not gay, are pretending etc) also they might feel threatened because lack of masculinity is what they have been made fun of for their whole life. So since these Non-Masc men dont understand the Masc-men want and need for masculinity they often confront them or even make fun of them.

    So now these men seeking masculinity feel like they are not accepted within both communities. They feel like they are not the norm in either... so they limit the interactions with men who are less masculine because it might make them feel almost " freakish" or not fitting in. They even avoid situations where their sexuality is known when hanging with straight men so they dont feel uncomfortable there either

    The men seeking masculinity are just going through the journey of life in which you decide what is important to you, and what it is to be a man, and what masculinity even is. Every person is on this journey of life, its called growing up. We grow up every day till we die. Every person on this earth is at a different stage in their life. They are just trying to live the journey of life so lets cut ALL PEOPLE no matter who they are some slack. I mean would you want people to hold you accountable for the things you said as a teenager?
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    Jun 23, 2009 8:52 PM GMT
    this is just an idea and part of it is from my experience the whole point of the comment was to explain one of my ideas why masc. men act that way. Its not everyone and the point was no matter who we are we should cut everyone some slack Just needed to say that again
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    Jun 23, 2009 9:13 PM GMT
    Some people like Pepsi. Some people like Coke.

    I ain't judging. So don't judge me if I reach for the Pepsi.

    icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 23, 2009 9:16 PM GMT
    bullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.
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    Jun 23, 2009 9:43 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA saidbullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.



    Great answer! I totally agree!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 23, 2009 10:11 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA- I wasn't saying you ave those problems, I was saying that some do
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    Jun 23, 2009 11:47 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA saidbullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.


    Ditto.
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Jun 23, 2009 11:50 PM GMT
    Pesonally, masculine/feminine doesn't matter. Just act like an adult.
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    Jun 24, 2009 12:25 AM GMT
    MadeNUSA saidbullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.


    I'll go with that one.

    Also not appearing to be a homosexual, and appearing to be straight, this can upset straight men I've been in the locker room with, because, they don't see me as a homosexual, thus feel safe too be undressed in front of me.

    If I was a flamer, they would of covered up, and protected themselves from my prying eyes.

    But also being a lad from the bush, the women I was too grow up around, would look Masc next to many flamers, strong women, not very girly. But the If I was a straight man, I would not find them attractive.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 24, 2009 12:32 AM GMT
    MadeNUSA saidbullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.


    Your right is noted, but your reasoning is barbaric. Who are you to decide what constitutes masculinity and what doesn't? It's a subjective term created by a society who is intent on pigeonholing everything into two categories so they can rail you when you fall outside those boundaries. You don't have to sleep with anyone you don't find attractive, but I find your answer, and everyone who agreed with you, to be riddled with demeaning overtones. You make it sound as if there is something wrong with guys who "act like women." In a free society, we should all be able to express ourselves without fear of persecution and being labeled by people like you who have the audacity to tell someone they're not worthy of you because they fail to abide by your subjective standards of what constitutes masculinity and ergo attractiveness.

    Again, you can sleep with or not sleep with whom you choose, but that doesn't mean you can be an emasculating jerk in the process.
  • tbeaux

    Posts: 419

    Jun 24, 2009 12:40 AM GMT
    MadeNUSA saidbullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.



    The last part of what you said is redundant.

    masculininity/femininity is all approximative. Meaning you are not just masculine or just feminine, there are different ranges on the scale. For me, i am more on the masculine side, but i do have feminine qualities that I do embrace. So for you to say that you just like masculine men....good luck trying to find just masculine men, it will NEVER EVER happen.


    Also there is no reason to degrade men with more feminine qualities, I personally couldn't date someone that had too many, qualities, but they're some great people. So stop trying to say all feminine men act like women.....they don't.


    lastly, just because i saw this in the first post, and he said that it's a different subject. if i hear i'm a straight acting guy again....i'mma rip my hair out!.....if you're gay, why do you want someone who is straight acting? that means he likes doing vajayjays....SO! we cleared that up.
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    Jun 24, 2009 12:52 AM GMT
    Xflipx.

    One did not think MadeNUSA was putting fems down, he just stated he did not wont to have sex with em. Yes and many flamers do act like women, certainly the ones that walk like Paris Hilton, swinging those hips. There is a reason men really don't walk like that. So it's not redundant.

    I didn't find you having issues with flamers who label regular homos, who appear to be straight, as it being acting, when all they are doing is being themselves, and it's the flamers who act all girly, are the ones putting on the act.

    During the time I interacted with the gay community, and worked on the gay scene. I had meet young men, acting all girly, and then in a few years time, they stopped acting, and appeared to be straight. because thats the kins of guy they were attracted too, and realised they had a better chance of getting a guy who appeared to be straight, if they did not act like a girl.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:04 AM GMT
    Here's the thing: see yourself on video. Then decide if being characterized as masculine/feminine, or desiring such is all that important. Just like hearing a recording of yourself, I doubt many people know what they look or sound like to others.

    I've seen a few hypocrites, only into "masculine" guys like themselves. And when they talk, a purse drops out of their mouth. STFU!
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:06 AM GMT
    I'm into guys that are themselves.
  • hartfan

    Posts: 1037

    Jun 24, 2009 1:08 AM GMT
    While this issue may be of interest to sociologists and anthropologists, here on RJ it needs to go away, and stay away. No more comment.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:24 AM GMT
    I have to agree with what xflipx said and what Madenusa said. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, there is no reason for a guy to wear glitter, lip stick, carry a purse, and swish. How is that natural?

    Yes, there are varying degrees of feminine and masculine, but some take it too far. How are they possibly being themselves?
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:28 AM GMT
    Balljunkie saidI have to agree with what xflipx said and what Madenusa said. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, there is no reason for a guy to wear glitter, lip stick, carry a purse, and swish. How is that natural?

    Yes, there are varying degrees of feminine and masculine, but some take it too far. How are they possibly being themselves?


    Exactly.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:31 AM GMT
    or some people simply don't like it... for no other reason than that...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:36 AM GMT
    purely by the dictionary, masculine is attributed to males, to strong and robust, not to neuter or female. associated with men and not with women. mannish, manlike, uneffeminate.

    and, feminine is attributed to those characteristics of the female, a woman, associated with women and not men, effeminate, effete, female, unmanly, womanish, womanlike.

    people can try to blur the lines as much as they want but the general perception of an effeminate guy is a guy that acts like a woman.

    the phrase "if i wanted a woman i'd get a woman, not a guy acting like a woman" has no subjugation and isn't condescending in any way. if you take offense to it, it might be an indication of insecurity.

    i like masculine. i like muscles. i like greasy engines and mud. i cut myself up doing construction and messing with power tools. i go to lumber and hardware stores and enjoy buying more power tools. a tee shirt and pair of levis look good on a guy.

    i don't like dresses, mascara, jewelry, hairdos and fancy shoes. i don't swoon at dolce and gabana or any other clothing label. i hate malls because there's nothing in there i want to buy, just a bunch of shops for women. i don't swish my ass and make a fan out of my hand and have a body with more twists in it than a slinky.

    i have no insecurity 'bout my sexuality, i'm not just acting this way nor do i feel a need to act horribly butch everywhere i go. i don't abhor effeminate, i don't purposely avoid such encounters, nor avoid situations where straight men know my sexuality.

    the only time i get vocal about this is when i(we) get attacked for saying "masculine looking for masculine"

    for those this applies to, stop hating on guys that just want masculine guys. there's nothing wrong with them.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:38 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidHere's the thing: see yourself on video. Then decide if being characterized as masculine/feminine, or desiring such is all that important. Just like hearing a recording of yourself, I doubt many people know what they look or sound like to others.

    I've seen a few hypocrites, only into "masculine" guys like themselves. And when they talk, a purse drops out of their mouth. STFU!


    Totally agree. I have experienced it with some guys who think there masculine.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:39 AM GMT
    ALEZANDAR said
    MadeNUSA saidbullshit!!!!

    I like masculine men to sleep with. I have no issues with myself. I quite like myself thank you very much.

    If i wanted a man who acted like a woman to sleep with i would go get a woman.



    Great answer! I totally agree!


    Yup yupicon_exclaim.gif keep-it-simpleicon_lol.gif
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:44 AM GMT
    Justmi said
    mickeytopogigio saidHere's the thing: see yourself on video. Then decide if being characterized as masculine/feminine, or desiring such is all that important. Just like hearing a recording of yourself, I doubt many people know what they look or sound like to others.

    I've seen a few hypocrites, only into "masculine" guys like themselves. And when they talk, a purse drops out of their mouth. STFU!


    Totally agree. I have experienced it with some guys who think there masculine.


    But at least they are not acting all girly. Just as I have meet flamers with a deep voice.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jun 24, 2009 1:49 AM GMT
    Balljunkie saidI have to agree with what xflipx said and what Madenusa said. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it, there is no reason for a guy to wear glitter, lip stick, carry a purse, and swish. How is that natural?

    Yes, there are varying degrees of feminine and masculine, but some take it too far. How are they possibly being themselves?


    Please explain to me how that isn't natural? Or better yet, please explain how it's natural for women to do that stuff? None of those things you listed are natural indicators of anything since none of those things exist in nature on their own. Clothes aren't natural. Cars aren't natural. Football is not natural. So if you're gonna tell me being a natural guy is wearing shorts, driving in a truck, and listening to the game you explain to me how there is anything inherent about that.
  • calibro

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    Jun 24, 2009 1:50 AM GMT
    matey said
    Justmi said
    mickeytopogigio saidHere's the thing: see yourself on video. Then decide if being characterized as masculine/feminine, or desiring such is all that important. Just like hearing a recording of yourself, I doubt many people know what they look or sound like to others.

    I've seen a few hypocrites, only into "masculine" guys like themselves. And when they talk, a purse drops out of their mouth. STFU!


    Totally agree. I have experienced it with some guys who think there masculine.


    But at least they are not acting all girly. Just as I have meet flamers with a deep voice.


    Stop saying shit like flamers! What gives you the right to negatively associate and label anybody for being who they are! It's debasing and insulting.
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    Jun 24, 2009 1:53 AM GMT
    Since this is a site for jocks, or sports men, or like minded guys. Why would a fem wont to hang around here, and if they chose to. Do get upset that masculine guys or guys who appear to be straight, are not into fem guys, or find it attractive.