I don't think Obama's Gamble is Working

  • GQjock

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    Jun 29, 2009 4:31 PM GMT
    It's become fairly apparent that the Obama administration is placating the middle at the expense of his base

    Whether it's continuing with the wars overseas
    waivering on Guantanamo
    playing Republican lite with the economy

    He's going to be shooting himself in the foot if he continues this way
    Nothing shows this more than his complete lack of tangible support for the gay community
    We got bubkus from them so far
    It's perfectly clear that they don't want to declare war with the right

    But he doesn't realize ... those people won't be voting for him anyway
    The people are ahead of him on our issues and on most of the others too

    Most people want DADT to be ended
    Most people Want healthcare reform

    I can see it now .... if Obama continues with this don't veer from the middle of the road path he's going to lose his base support and the dems will lose seats during the midterms if he doesn't plow thru
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    Jun 29, 2009 9:38 PM GMT
    What did you expect him to do with the wars overseas. Just pack up and leave in 6 months?

    Please, in foreign policy, don't expect a difference between democrats and and republicans besides tone.
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    Jun 30, 2009 12:30 AM GMT
    But he's been in office for what? 5 months now?
    You can't expect a change overnight. Granted, a lot of issues are on the backburner now and many others may remain untouched but I'd rather they concentrate on the economy and making things better than repealing DADT. That's not saying that I don't want DADT repealed or advance in gay rights, I'm all for it but when you have people losing their jobs and houses left and right, well..that takes precedence.
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    Jun 30, 2009 12:53 AM GMT
    You're kidding right??

    O'Bama has made the single largest grab for power and government control ever experienced in the history of the U.S.

    What legal authority does the gov't have to force out the CEO of GM?

    What legal authority does the gov't have to set executive pay/salaries for private companies?

    What legal authority does the gov't have to do what they've done with banks?

    The gov't grabbing for control over our healthcare, unprecedented.

    The recent "enviromental policy" that is simply the gov't trying to mandate things from the vehicles that are mfg'd, to the dramatic increase in energy costs, to... pick your topic and Uncle O'Bama has his hand in your pocket and will continue to steal your freedoms until he has control over all aspects of your life.

    Congrat if you voted for O'Bama and his ilk you got just what you asked for.

    Mark my words in 5 years we will look back and the U.S. we know and love will be unrecognizable!!

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    Jun 30, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
    mikey669 saidUncle O'Bama has his hand in your pocket and will continue to steal your freedoms until he has control over all aspects of your life.

    Mark my words in 5 years we will look back and the U.S. we know and love will be unrecognizable!!


    Many, many people do fervently hope that the neocon USA that was forming under Bush for 8 years will be gone for ever. And the first bit was sweet. Wanting to improve the worst health system in the industrialized world is hardly stealing freedom.
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    Jun 30, 2009 1:02 AM GMT
    The worst healthcare system in the industrialized world, you've got to be kidding or delusional. Why is it that people come to the U.S. from the world over to be treated??

    If you want universal healthcare go to Canada, the UK, or elsewhere. So what you think of that system.

    Cap in trade/tax plan will revolutionize our utility costs and our lives in general.

    I'd rather have the gov't out of my life, my pocketbook, and my decisions. That's not happening under O'Bama and will only continue to get more invasive.
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    Jun 30, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
    funny how all the dolts believe the Bama spin that we have the worst healthcare... friends dad just had to wait 6 months for knee surgery in the UK... My uncle had the same surgery here 3 days after the doc recommended it... get ur head out of the sand fellas...Bama wants to turn this into sweden...without the hot blonds
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    Jun 30, 2009 1:29 AM GMT
    Yes, our doctors and hospitals are good. Our health insurance is terrible. That is the issue.

    But, Obama has not lost his base support. His approval rating among all political parties is about the same as it was when he was sworn in. As in, it is incredibly freakin' high.
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    Jun 30, 2009 1:37 AM GMT
    That may be in part due to the complacency of americans. Beyond that most Americans seem oblivious to the way their freedoms are eroding and don't seem to care that the gov't is extracting power from the people.
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    Jun 30, 2009 1:43 AM GMT
    mikey669 saidThat may be in part due to the complacency of americans. Beyond that most Americans seem oblivious to the way their freedoms are eroding and don't seem to care that the gov't is extracting power from the people.


    what eroding freedoms? the right to wield a gun in a drunk stupor? hysterical much?
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:07 AM GMT
    how about the right to drive what i want... eat what i want... smoke if i want..... he is popular because americans are dopes... and u guys are spouting the bama jive... community organizer my ass... I guess i understand why he is cool with the election in Iran... he would love to have a muslim cleric affirm his reelection...
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:10 AM GMT
    mattyrec saidhow about the right to drive what i want... eat what i want... smoke if i want..... he is popular because americans are dopes... and u guys are spouting the bama jive... community organizer my ass... I guess i understand why he is cool with the election in Iran... he would love to have a muslim cleric affirm his reelection...


    you are insane. no, really, or just not too bright.
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:11 AM GMT
    mikey669 saidYou're kidding right??

    O'Bama has made the single largest grab for power and government control ever experienced in the history of the U.S.

    What legal authority does the gov't have to force out the CEO of GM?

    What legal authority does the gov't have to set executive pay/salaries for private companies?

    What legal authority does the gov't have to do what they've done with banks?

    The gov't grabbing for control over our healthcare, unprecedented.

    The recent "enviromental policy" that is simply the gov't trying to mandate things from the vehicles that are mfg'd, to the dramatic increase in energy costs, to... pick your topic and Uncle O'Bama has his hand in your pocket and will continue to steal your freedoms until he has control over all aspects of your life.

    Congrat if you voted for O'Bama and his ilk you got just what you asked for.

    Mark my words in 5 years we will look back and the U.S. we know and love will be unrecognizable!!



    The government as GM's creditor has the right to request changes in management. It's a common business practice, carried out all the time. Not to mention that this guy was an asshat.

    Same thing with Wall Street. Obama didn't go far enough in cleaning out Wall Street.

    As the lender of last resort, that was the price (and billions if not trillions of our tax dollars) to prevent utter economic collapse.

    Per healthcare, this is a tired talking point, Every other industrialized country has some form of gov't healthcare. And their citizens LOVE IT, despite hire taxes.

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    Jun 30, 2009 2:17 AM GMT
    Actually Sweden has one of the highest standards of living in the world so if the US became more like them (and the US has some pretty hot blondes as well), it wouldn't be such a bad thing. They have an excellent education system and contrary to what people think, they are not socialist per se..it's more of a hybrid model between capitalism and socialism.

    I'm not defending Obama or bashing him, I just say let's wait and see how it all plays out.
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:20 AM GMT
    I'm sorry but gov't involvement in both banking and automobile industry does not equate to the authority to force out/fire CEO's. We operate in the U.S. under the rule of law and there are no current laws on the books that allow the gov't to force out leaders of business, or mandate salaries.

    The capitalist system has mechanisms in place to regulate things. We would be much better served allowing those tools to work rather than for gov't intervention or control.

    O'Bama has gone quite far enough and in most cases too far, thank you very much. As one who works for a publicly traded multi-national company everything we do is gauged against creating shareholder value. Nothing the present administration is doing will create any shareholder value.

    Current bankruptcy laws are in place and have worked for years. Gov't intervention didn't prevent that in the case of Gm. So why not allow the free-market economy work it's course?

    How familiar are you with the gov't healthcare provided by other countries?? Healthcare in the U.S. stands alone as premier in the world.

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    Jun 30, 2009 2:20 AM GMT


    Same thing with Wall Street. Obama didn't go far enough in cleaning out Wall Street.

    Per healthcare, this is a tired talking point, Every other industrialized country has some form of gov't healthcare. And their citizens LOVE IT, despite hire taxes.

    [/quote]

    Wall Street: Goldman got the sweetheart deal of the century... bama doesn't wanna clean it out... he needs the campaign contributions.just like schumer and hillary got...

    How many citizens of other countrys have u spoken with... germans hate it because it is rationed... brits get private insurance cause it is so bad.... canadians come to the USA for treatment... so naieve...so sad
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:26 AM GMT
    This country is a "middle" country and I'm pretty impressed that President Obama has maneuvered it so well so far. The folks on the far right and the far left are equally insane and unrealistic. The far right is full of out of touch hypocrites and the far left is just out of touch.

    Like others who have responded, I'd rather that Obama deal with foreign affairs, the economy, and the environment before he starts tackling DADT and a host of other gay related issues. If he starts with the "homosexual agenda," his credibility on those other issues will be shot once the righties get going on their hate machines.

    Bottom line - he's getting something done which is more than Bush or Clinton did when faced with obstructionist congresses. I'll take progress on big issues that affect the middle over important, but not urgent, issues that address individual constituent groups.
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:33 AM GMT
    mattyrec said

    Same thing with Wall Street. Obama didn't go far enough in cleaning out Wall Street.

    Per healthcare, this is a tired talking point, Every other industrialized country has some form of gov't healthcare. And their citizens LOVE IT, despite hire taxes.



    Wall Street: Goldman got the sweetheart deal of the century... bama doesn't wanna clean it out... he needs the campaign contributions.just like schumer and hillary got...

    How many citizens of other countrys have u spoken with... germans hate it because it is rationed... brits get private insurance cause it is so bad.... canadians come to the USA for treatment... so naieve...so sad[/quote]

    your health care costs, man, is one of the major reasons for personal bankruptcies in your country according to most stats, as well as the reason that so many Americans actually come to Canada for treatments, or to Mexico, or India, or Thailand, or Indonesia, all of which run hospitals targeting Americans in particular.

    universal health care in canada, for example, is prone to longer waiting times etc (depending on how close you are to a major hospital btw), but at least i get to enjoy ANY health care at all.

    i had to get an x-ray of a foot done (turned out to be a sprain), and went to a general doctor several times for follow ups. i don't' make much cash, and that would put me in debt etc., so i am really grateful for the fact that it was all free. i am sure some of your fellow citizens would be happy to enjoy a similar option.
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:44 AM GMT

    Indicate one O'Bama policy to date that hasn't flown thru congress?? He's been able to pass anything and everything he's wanted. He's free reign, appointed some pretty radical people, and gotten exactly what he wants.

    Name another president that's been on tv everyday, had press conferences galore, and recently had an hour long free ride on national tv?

    He'll get what he wants and we will be the worse for the it.
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    Jun 30, 2009 2:56 AM GMT
    mikey669I'm sorry but gov't involvement in both banking and automobile industry does not equate to the authority to force out/fire CEO's. We operate in the U.S. under the rule of law and there are no current laws on the books that allow the gov't to force out leaders of business, or mandate salaries.

    The capitalist system has mechanisms in place to regulate things. We would be much better served allowing those tools to work rather than for gov't intervention or control.


    The gov't is not forcing the leader out AS THE GOV'T. It is doing so as the creditor. I'm sure your big, multi-national corporation would do the same thing if it loaned an enormous sum to a failing company. It's a common business practice. Stop seeing red diapers everywhere.

    Unbridled capitalism and unregulated markets are what caused this crisis to begin with. There is no study that demonstrates that corporations do anything better than the gov't except make money at the expense of safety, fairness, and the law.

    Efficiency, management, etc. have nothing to do with capitalism, particularly the predatory kind the US has been subjected to in the past 8 years.

    Put your personal greed aside and think of what's best of the country.

    As for health care, US ranks 37 overall behind Morocco and every European country. Our infant mortality rate is horrible. Oh, and we die sooner.

    Not a ringing endorsement for our system which went to shit when long-standing nonprofit and mutually owned health insurance become for-profit entities.


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    Jun 30, 2009 2:57 AM GMT
    mikey669 said
    Indicate one O'Bama policy to date that hasn't flown thru congress?? He's been able to pass anything and everything he's wanted. He's free reign, appointed some pretty radical people, and gotten exactly what he wants.

    Name another president that's been on tv everyday, had press conferences galore, and recently had an hour long free ride on national tv?

    He'll get what he wants and we will be the worse for the it.


    isn't that how the democracy that you tout works? people elect representative, and they pass the legislation or reject it, reflecting the will of the people? or, are you just happy for democracy when your side wins?
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    Jun 30, 2009 3:13 AM GMT
    I wonder if a piece of legislation can be named that just flew through congress, at all?
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    Jun 30, 2009 3:35 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    As for health care, US ranks 37 overall behind Morocco and every European country. Our infant mortality rate is horrible. Oh, and we die sooner.

    Not a ringing endorsement for our system which went to shit when long-standing nonprofit and mutually owned health insurance become for-profit entities.




    Before spouting off the standard propaganda on how terrible the US healthcare system is, perhaps you should actually read how that ranking was calculated by the WHO.

    There are 5 factors going into the index (by % weight):

    Health Level - 25%
    Health Distribution - 25%
    Responsiveness - 12.5%
    Responsiveness Distribution - 12.5%
    Financial Fairness - 25%

    Now a lot goes into each category, but basically 62.5% of the score is based on evenness of care and evenness of cost. This means a country with even a low overall health score would score highly in these categories if everyone gets the same poor care. On the other hand, in the responsiveness category (which includes such things as speed of service, protection of privacy, choice of doctors, and quality of amenities) the U.S. ranks #1.

    This system also uses a conversion factor to estimate how much they think a country SHOULD be paying for healthcare in relation to the perceived benefits of the spending. Because we spend so much on healthcare, our rank goes down as the WHO thinks we should see better results. However, the U.S. has developed over half of the drugs and something like 80% of all the medical procedures invented in the last 30 years. The R&D in the U.S. is substantially more than any other country, who simply benefit from our developments. We also have the second largest amount of technology (such as MRI units per person) in the world behind Japan.

    As for infant mortality and life expectancy, our relatively high IM can be attributed to 1. High number of premature and low birth weight births surviving to term but dying soon after birth 2. The lack of records from many countries which do not record cases such as this not expected to survive as infant mortality and 3. The relatively low rate of abortions (for example Cuba has a supposedly lower IM, but they abort way more babies that have any sort of complication.) Life expectancy can barely even be attributed to the health care system as Utah has a life expectancy three years higher than Nevada, even though they have basically the same health care system.

    I suggest before anyone bitch an moan about the U.S. healthcare system they should try getting a complex operation in any of the second or third world countries that rank higher than us, such as:

    Costa Rica
    Dominica
    Chile
    Morocco
    Colombia

    Do you honestly believe that they have it better off healthcare wise?

    Check out the info

    http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf
    http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-613.pdf

    Now before you get your panties in a twist and dismiss them for being libertarian, read the damn things. They are extensively researched and cited.
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    Jun 30, 2009 3:43 AM GMT
    bsubioguy said
    Christian73 said
    As for health care, US ranks 37 overall behind Morocco and every European country. Our infant mortality rate is horrible. Oh, and we die sooner.

    Not a ringing endorsement for our system which went to shit when long-standing nonprofit and mutually owned health insurance become for-profit entities.




    Before spouting off the standard propaganda on how terrible the US healthcare system is, perhaps you should actually read how that ranking was calculated by the WHO.

    There are 5 factors going into the index (by % weight):



    dude, if someone can't afford to go to a specialist AT ALL, what's the worth of a stellar operation room equipment to that person? You don't need stats to know the answer.
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    Jun 30, 2009 3:55 AM GMT
    Come on surely you must be kidding. Legislation that flew thru...how about the TARP, bailout of the auto industry, and last Friday's passage of the environmental/cap in spend legislation?? NONE of which by congress' own admission they fully reviewed/read.

    I don't know about your job but I would never be allowed to push something thru corporate that wasn't fully read or reviewed.

    Our own congressmen voted to pass legislation that they admitedly hadn't read. That's blatant negligence in my opinion.

    If you would like I'll gladly offer addt'l details but hopefully you get the idea.