Lust but not love?

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    Jul 01, 2009 8:51 AM GMT
    OK, so I'm gay, I've accepted this and fine with it after a little bit. However, the issue is that being born and raised in the bible belt(can't wait to leave), I have been taught that two guys aren't supposed to love each other. I'm really afraid that all I will ever have is just hookups(like i do now), but I won't ever really have an actual relationship with a guy. Obviously I know im wrong, but after all of these years being taught to think this way I can't exactly forget it and it really scares me that I'll grow up just to have a job and sex and no substantial relationship.
    Any advice much appreaciated, I pretty much just needed to vent and let it out because at the moment I'm like crying over this subject.
  • Pheo

    Posts: 198

    Jul 01, 2009 9:47 AM GMT
    Being gay in the bible belt is not the end. I was a christian and this is why I turned Pagan... How can a God hate his children for who they are? It was Paul that said man should not lay with man... Not God himself. It's not a 10 commandment, and it's not wrong. Gay men can have long term relationships just as well as any straight couple. It's no different really.
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    Jul 01, 2009 10:38 AM GMT
    The other day I was faced with the same dilemma. Nothing convinced me that I would ever find love. However, I made a brave deal with myself. Here goes:

    I have absolutely no reason to believe in God. But I believe anyway. Imagine what I would become without my faith. So I keep it, though I have no rational reason for doing so. I am disappointed with Christian apologetics. Yet I believe in Christ. Am I living in a fools' paradise? Not necessarily. I'm just making a very practical choice -- one that will keep me sane and functional all the days of my life.

    I have absolutely no reason to believe that love will happen in my life. But I hope anyway. Can you imagine what I would become if I stopped hoping altogether?

    Faith that good things are possible keeps us sane. Those good things don't have to happen. We simply believe because the loss of hope is far worse than the actual absence of love or blessing.

    We can remove the religious wraps and use faith as what it is: something as essential to humanity as breathing. Besides, if God turns out to have been real and love does come your way, you don't want either of them to find you spiritually defeated and bitter, do you?

    Faith is a placebo. Call it such, and take it anyway. Trust me: I've seen atheist psychiatrists prescribe prayer.

    Go 1 week not believing that love will come your way. It will strip you of your humanity.

    Faith. Hope. Love.

    The greatest of these is love.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 01, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
    Dude, you're 18. You're a baby. You have no idea what is really even out there yet. Just relax and you'll a things will change.
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    Jul 01, 2009 3:20 PM GMT



    Hey welcome to Realjock, Poseidon617!

    It's all completely dependent on what you believe god to be. Some believe god must be harsh and commanding, cool and implacable, impatient of worthless man, waiting to strike him down in his sin. Others believe god to be a fount of joy, love and all possibility, a grand inventor, limitless creation in which case we are surely meant to be.

    It all comes down to you.

    ...on the other hand, you could simply decide god doesn't exist as some have...

    Is this a question of psychological conditioning, or faith?



    -Doug of meninlove
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    Jul 01, 2009 3:24 PM GMT
    Pheo saidBeing gay in the bible belt is not the end. I was a christian and this is why I turned Pagan... How can a God hate his children for who they are? It was Paul that said man should not lay with man... Not God himself. It's not a 10 commandment, and it's not wrong. Gay men can have long term relationships just as well as any straight couple. It's no different really.


    Paul never said anything like that. If someone told you Paul, a lawyer, said something as vague and incorrect as "man should not lay with man", then somebody lied.
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    Jul 01, 2009 3:28 PM GMT
    At 18, living not far outside that great gay mecca called New York I didn't know what I wanted. What is a relationship like? How does one date? What do I want in a partner? I had answers for these questions, but they were not correct answers.

    At 18, no one knows what they are doing or what they really wants. Whether they live in the Bible Belt or Buenos Aires, whether they are gay or straight, male or female.

    Fool around. Enjoy your 18 year old sex drive. When you are 81 those memories are going to get you through a lot of nights. Date when you feel like it. Break your heart. Learn from you mistakes. All the pieces will fall together.
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    Jul 01, 2009 3:35 PM GMT
    If love has come to many other gays like you (albeit older and more experienced), love will come to you too.
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    Jul 01, 2009 3:39 PM GMT
    I grew up Nazarene but realized I was mostly told myths about gays. Being gay is just like being st8, you can have a great marriage to another guy. I suggest do some reading, learn everything you can about the LGBT community and learn who you really are.

    best of luck
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    Jul 01, 2009 4:27 PM GMT
    You're fucked. Good luck finding something like your parents (if not divorced) or other straight couples have. If you do find a "life partner" (not just an LTR, which typically only tend to last for a couple years anyway) you'll probably have to accept them fucking around on you. Good luck bud. Welcome to the jungle.
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    Jul 01, 2009 4:39 PM GMT
    Poseidon617 saidOK, so I'm gay, I've accepted this and fine with it after a little bit. However, the issue is that being born and raised in the bible belt(can't wait to leave), I have been taught that two guys aren't supposed to love each other. I'm really afraid that all I will ever have is just hookups(like i do now), but I won't ever really have an actual relationship with a guy. Obviously I know im wrong, but after all of these years being taught to think this way I can't exactly forget it and it really scares me that I'll grow up just to have a job and sex and no substantial relationship.
    Any advice much appreaciated, I pretty much just needed to vent and let it out because at the moment I'm like crying over this subject.



    So were you taught not to love your dad and brothers? I don't think you have much of a stretch for your emotional boundaries here. Even str8 guys have "I luv you man. " type best buds.
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    Jul 01, 2009 4:51 PM GMT



    LOL blackcaesar, we can assure you we're not imaginary or all that uncommon.
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    Jul 01, 2009 4:53 PM GMT
    i think the OP's issue isn't so much with religion, as it is with how he's been raised to think- its a psych issue. i've seen this a lot actually, with other gay men- it's always frustrating to me- where i'll want to date a guy and they confess that they've never had a relationship... just lots of hookups.... and then after batting me around for a week or so, they decide that's still all they really want. its a step above guys who can't even admit they're gay; they have sex with guys, but won't kiss them, and insist that doesn't make them 'gay,' because that word for them is terrifying. in the case of the OP (who seems more lucid and honest with himself over all of this than most guys in his position), it seems he's aware that his self-hate over being gay is unhealthy, and he wants more than just a hookup, but the feelings of guilt and self-hate and shame that his upbringing instilled in him make him doubt he's capable of a stable emotional exchange with another guy. i won't admit to entirely understanding it, but it sounds awful and my heart would go out to these poor guys, if it weren't also the case they they end up bumbling through a lot of guy's broken hearts before they find themselves. i blame society and our crapulous outdated victorian 'values.' and antecedent to that, i blame organized religion- biggest failed experiment in human history.

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    Jul 01, 2009 5:05 PM GMT
    Once you leave your childhood stomping grounds, you'll see differently, but you'll need to experience it as well.....
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    Jul 01, 2009 5:19 PM GMT
    meninlove said


    LOL blackcaesar, we can assure you we're not imaginary or all that uncommon.


    thanks guys. you give us youngins some hope. be well
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    Jul 01, 2009 5:40 PM GMT



    Hey welcome to Realjock, blackcaesar! The best thing is, the world is greater than we know, and so much is possible it's mindboggling. icon_wink.gif
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    Jul 01, 2009 7:11 PM GMT
    czarodziej saidi think the OP's issue isn't so much with religion, as it is with how he's been raised to think- its a psych issue. i've seen this a lot actually, with other gay men- it's always frustrating to me- where i'll want to date a guy and they confess that they've never had a relationship... just lots of hookups.... and then after batting me around for a week or so, they decide that's still all they really want. its a step above guys who can't even admit they're gay; they have sex with guys, but won't kiss them, and insist that doesn't make them 'gay,' because that word for them is terrifying. in the case of the OP (who seems more lucid and honest with himself over all of this than most guys in his position), it seems he's aware that his self-hate over being gay is unhealthy, and he wants more than just a hookup, but the feelings of guilt and self-hate and shame that his upbringing instilled in him make him doubt he's capable of a stable emotional exchange with another guy. i won't admit to entirely understanding it, but it sounds awful and my heart would go out to these poor guys, if it weren't also the case they they end up bumbling through a lot of guy's broken hearts before they find themselves. i blame society and our crapulous outdated victorian 'values.' and antecedent to that, i blame organized religion- biggest failed experiment in human history.



    Exactly! Thats pretty much it head on, you def understand what i was saying. thank ya (:
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    Jul 01, 2009 7:40 PM GMT
    I'm glad the OP is asking and questioning.

    I see so many who idealize something "just like the grandparents who met in high school, waited for sex until marriage, never even looked at another person in a sexual way" and yet seem to forget that the grandparents were of opposite gender.

    We have already broken rule #1!

    We make our own rules together and both of us involved agree to them.
    Perhaps we can seek inspiration from the rulebooks of our ancestors, but we cannot just adopt those rules without question and still be homosexuals.
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    Jul 01, 2009 7:47 PM GMT
    _chuck_ saidI'm glad the OP is asking and questioning.

    I see so many who idealize something "just like the grandparents who met in high school, waited for sex until marriage, never even looked at another person in a sexual way" and yet seem to forget that the grandparents were of opposite gender.

    We have already broken rule #1!

    We make our own rules together and both of us involved agree to them.
    Perhaps we can seek inspiration from the rulebooks of our ancestors, but we cannot just adopt those rules without question and still be homosexuals.



    BULLSHIT!!
    but notice how much of that generation managed to have 40-60 year relationships instead of celebrating 5 year, so called ,long term relationships. There is a beauty and respect to long term fidelity that is greatly underestimated in the warped and mutaded perception of "love" in the gay community, in which only a few exceptions exist.
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    Jul 01, 2009 8:03 PM GMT
    blackcaesar said
    but notice how much of that generation managed to have 40-60 year relationships instead of celebrating 5 year, so called ,long term relationships. There is a beauty and respect to long term fidelity that is greatly underestimated in the warped and mutaded perception of "love" in the gay community, in which only a few exceptions exist.


    Agree totally. Don't be discouraged, long-term couples beyond 5 years do exist a lot. I have been with my husband for 8 years now, we're going on many many more. My advice is to choose your friends carefully, get away from the dysfunctional, shallow ones, and surround yourself with people who have experienced success in personal life.
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Jul 01, 2009 8:19 PM GMT


    no need to cry. your parents have had the chance to formulate their own identities and so you, too, deserve the opportunity to do the same.
    learning how to be comfortable and efficacious with being gay is a cultivated process. where perhaps the patterns are more easily recognized by some when compared to others.

    if this is not easily understood, then take the analogy of mathematics to homosexuality. being attuned to the perhaps subtle nuances within the field of math takes a distinct level of cultivation. again, some are better at recognizing patterns within the subject matter, but only after they have spent time working with the subject.

    work with being gay: find your likes and dislikes. seek out GLBTQ books and documentaries and see where you stand on some of the studies out there. once you become more informed as to the, who, what, where, why, and how, you may then begin to lead a more comprehensive lifestyle - then learn to uplift yourself with you and your closest friends and family - which may then open up the possibility for love rather than just lust.

    * do not attempt to take on every issue at once. take your life one day at a time and see where it leads you. *
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    Jul 01, 2009 8:55 PM GMT
    MtndudeSF said
    blackcaesar said
    but notice how much of that generation managed to have 40-60 year relationships instead of celebrating 5 year, so called ,long term relationships. There is a beauty and respect to long term fidelity that is greatly underestimated in the warped and mutaded perception of "love" in the gay community, in which only a few exceptions exist.


    Agree totally. Don't be discouraged, long-term couples beyond 5 years do exist a lot. I have been with my husband for 8 years now, we're going on many many more. My advice is to choose your friends carefully, get away from the dysfunctional, shallow ones, and surround yourself with people who have experienced success in personal life.


    thanks for the encouragement. its just hard to not be pessimistic when you constantly hear and witness such shallowness. thats great to hear about your partner and yourself.
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    Jul 01, 2009 9:06 PM GMT
    blackcaesar said

    BULLSHIT!!


    Oh really?
    Are you saying the grandparents rulebook is the only way to share a fulfilling life with someone?

    One often unnoticed rule in the grandparents rulebook is staying together forever just because that's what the tradition says to do, even as people change over the years.

    Is it so bad to have the confidence, self esteem, and stability to go through life with a series of partners who are the good for each other at whichever point in their life and the mutual respect to peacefully go separate ways when life changes direction?
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    Jul 01, 2009 9:24 PM GMT
    _chuck_ said
    blackcaesar said

    BULLSHIT!!




    Is it so bad to have the confidence, self esteem, and stability to go through life with a series of partners who are the good for each other at whichever point in their life and the mutual respect to peacefully go separate ways when life changes direction?


    Once again BULLSHIT!!!

    Yhat is the attitudes that caused AIDS and HIV to spread through the gay community like wild fire in the 80's and why this guy ( http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/574109/ ) HAS HIV. You can live in your fantasy world all you want but I believe that the original poster was looking for a long term, love with substance, not fuck buddies that'll drop you at the drop of a dime, the minute you loose your six pack
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    Jul 01, 2009 9:42 PM GMT
    Poseidon617 saidOK, so I'm gay, I've accepted this and fine with it after a little bit. However, the issue is that being born and raised in the bible belt(can't wait to leave), I have been taught that two guys aren't supposed to love each other. I'm really afraid that all I will ever have is just hookups(like i do now), but I won't ever really have an actual relationship with a guy. Obviously I know im wrong, but after all of these years being taught to think this way I can't exactly forget it and it really scares me that I'll grow up just to have a job and sex and no substantial relationship.
    Any advice much appreaciated, I pretty much just needed to vent and let it out because at the moment I'm like crying over this subject.


    Well you're young so you have a lot of time to find the right person. Random hookups aren't safe,or smart, gay or straight, and worrying about finding the right person is something straight guys, or girls go through too. I think more so for the girls, being that it seems a lot of men today, don't know how to be men.

    As for whoever taught you that two guys aren't supposed to love each other, they obviously have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, or know anything about god if they claim to. I'm Christian, grew up in a very traditional home, have family members serving in the military since before I was even thought of haha, very much into the whole warrior culture thing, all the males in my family were not only in the military, but were also boxers, or wrestlers so that whole warrior mentality has always been there, I continued the tradition been in the military for 10 years, and I've been training in MMA (mixed martial arts) since I was 5, I have 3 sons, 2 of em which are older (I was kinda pretty young when my first 2 were born), do the same training, and want to be in the military when they turn 18, so pretty much all the males in my family are extremely masculine, and very much into god, and no we are not Liberals, or hard core Conservatives ha

    But my father always taught us, that there was nothing wrong, or abnormal for 2 men to have strong love for each other. Which growing up as I did, I saw that in my warrior culture books, mythology books, even in the bible with David, and Johnathan, so the whole concept of men loving men, was never a weird thing to me was actually pretty beautiful, strong, noble and just awesome with how they did it, and what it was based on, and my best friend and I have that kind of relationship. Men behaving as women, or wanting other men to treat them as women was abnormal to me yes, but still I respect people's lives so long as they are happy, and not hurting anyone else in any kind of way.

    If god was so against 2 men having strong love for each other, he would have instantly destroyed David, and Johnathan. So those people who claim to be Christians, but say crap like that, only say them because they are afraid to express those very normal emotions towards a man they may be close with, its got nothing to do with god, just their own crap whatever it may be, not to mention their lack of knowledge of god, and why people are as they are, and then you also have people who like to use god to justify the evil things they think, or do to others. And I'll tell you right now, anyone who claims to be Christian, but says hateful things to other people, and tries to make em feel like crap, or tries to judge them, is making the devil happy, not god, because the devil is all about men hating other men, and all that other crap.

    Like I said you're young, just concentrate on doing well in life, getting where you want to be, and when you are and happy with yourself where you are, and keep a good head on your shoulders. The right people will come into your life, because they'll notice and respect the good about you.