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The title has historical significance. It is not something that I would have ever said.



Please read the entire article:
http://killingthebuddha.com/mag/damnation/gays-are-the-new-niggers/

Rev. Osagyefo Uhuru Sekou


Gays Are the New Niggers

40 years after the Stonewall riots, what Bayard Rustin means for American democracy.

[quote]
Those who declare “Gay is the New Black” have outraged intellectuals, religious leaders, and politicians inside the black community. They have outraged, for instance, Rev. Irene Monroe, who identifies three cardinal sins of whiteness plaguing the gay-marriage movement: 1) exploiting black suffering and experiences to legitimate its own; 2) rallying against heterosexist oppression while remaining silent on its own white-skin privilege; 3) appropriating the content of the black civil rights movement but discarding the historical context. Rev. Monroe is right. If there is to be a black-and-gay coalition, it will have to listen to her.

But it will also have to remember Bayard Rustin. Rustin, an openly gay black man, helped introduce Gandhian nonviolence to the African-American civil rights movement. His pacifism landed him in jail for refusing to participate in World War II. He was part of the first Freedom Rides in 1947, helped to found the Congress for Racial Equality, and was National Field Secretary for the Fellowship of Reconciliation. Rustin was among the most famous advocates of Gandhian nonviolence in the 1930s and 1940s, and the Mahatma once summoned him to a conference in India. Beginning with the Montgomery Bus Boycott, he served as key adviser to Martin Luther King, Jr., giving him the chance to train Dr. King in the philosophy of nonviolence as a way of life.
[/quote]

[quote]


Naming (faggot and nigger), vigilante violence/hate crimes (Matthew Shepard and Emmett Till), legislative disenfranchisement (Plessy vs. Ferguson and Prop. 8 , hyper-sexualized stereotypes, and housing and employment discrimination have been used to undermine the humanity of both groups. And, for both, much of it has been done and justified by religion. Oppressive forces across time and space, and across race and class, share in the same brutal methods. They must be answered with a common cause.

The historical and contemporary experiences of black and queer folks not are the same. They are clearly different—but not dissimilar. Their similarity carries a moral obligation to compare struggles and stories, to forge an existential identification between the oppressed groups. In the past, black folks were the chief victims of moral outrage and political warfare; queer folks are today.

Gay folks can learn from the questioning hermeneutics that black folks applied to the Bible and the Constitution. If queer folks come to read the Bible in one hand and the Constitution in the other, they too begin to reclaim the liberating promise of these texts.

Rustin, however, places the burden of proof on the queer community. There are responsibilities that come to those who claim to be oppressed. Indifference to the suffering of other human beings cannot be a part of one’s own struggle, he insists. The queer community cannot work toward justice for itself alone. It must, self-critically, reject all forms of prejudice. Rustin writes that a society that denies school children food will never grant gay rights. By the same logic, a society that rejects universal health, embraces preemptive war, and houses more black men in prison than in college will never grant queer folks their God-given rights or their rights as democratic citizens.

To share in the hateful legacy of “nigger” requires generosity on the part of black people. We must be freely giving of the gift we have given democracy for over four centuries. In the same manner that Rustin and others marched and were beaten for everybody’s democracy, we must continue to extend the hand of freedom and the history of hope to the queer community. We have so much to teach: how to be persecuted but not forsake our democratic values, how to be cast down but not out, and how to meet legislative setbacks with existential victories. The black and queer communities face these questions together now, after the passage of California’s Proposition 8 last year and after the renewal of the Defense of Marriage Act on the watch of the first African-American president. A dreadful word with so much ugly history is the very window through which we can begin to see each other’s humanity.

All niggers—historical and contemporary—must join forces to achieve freedom for all. Rustin places a moral challenge on those in the struggle: “Every indifference to prejudice is suicide because, if I don’t fight all bigotry, bigotry itself will be strengthened and, sooner or later, it will return on me.”


[/quote]

Please read the entire article:
http://killingthebuddha.com/mag/damnation/gays-are-the-new-niggers/

ironic...

http://www.authspot.com/Poetry/Give-Me-Your-Tired-Your-Poor-But-Not-Your-Gay.845129

the only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

That is not what the article said...perhaps you missed the point? The comparison was merely used to show that bigotry and prejudice must continuously be fought. I think it also implies that if you claim that you are oppressed, you must fight oppression whatever form it takes and that means fighting it if it is directed at you and any other race/creed/religion/gender/orientation/etc.... That's what I took from that article.

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

dude, why don't you get your head out of your ass and realize that's not even what the article is about. you have a ridiculous sense of pride that has no place in this conversation. and just for the hell of it "Gay is the new Black!" because you obviously have no clue what that means.

calibro said

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

dude, why don't you get your head out of your ass and realize that's not even what the article is about. you have a ridiculous sense of pride that has no place in this conversation. and just for the hell of it "Gay is the new Black!" because you obviously have no clue what that means.

ahem... ditto

Yeah bigotry and hate speech should always be fought, all kinds of it. Me personally I feel anyone who spews garbage that incites hatred towards another group of people, should be shut down, because that's how it started in Nazi Germany, that's how it always starts. And American soldiers returning from the war realized this, when they came back to their own country, and saw how blacks, and other races were being treated, and that started to begin the wheels of change.

However I don't think the word Faggot is "the new" anything, that's taking it a bit too far. You'll always have people who hate, and give hate speech, even act on it, that is just a sad sad reality that portrays one of mankind's many imperfections, and you'll run into it no matter where you go. However we live in a time where such speech, and action is not acceptable, and not just by our laws, but by a large majority of Americans.

There is a lot of bigotry/discrimination within the gay community too, so I think the gay community needs to address this more, and work on fixing it, before they start going around telling other people what they should do.

As for the whole Matthew Shepard thing, cause I saw that mentioned. He wasn't killed because he was gay, and that whole thing was actually proven I believe it was on MSNBC. He was killed by 2 young stupid boys, who were drunk, and wanted to rob someone because one of em was a drug dealer, and owed somebody money, and they thought Mathew was kind of a "rich kid". He was an easy target because he looked weak, he was a small guy. And as always when you have young stupid boys who try to do something like that, when it all goes to hell, meaning they fucked up, and then are afraid of getting caught, they always do the most stupidest thing by killing the victim. The same happened with this drug dealer's little brother in 99/00. When they found out they could get life in prison for kidnapping, they killed him. That movie Alpha Dog was inspired by that event.

Same with that girl who's name escapes me, she was brutally raped by two once again drunk stupid young guys, who were then afraid of her getting them into trouble, so they killed her, and everyone else in the house thinking that would save their worthless asses.

There was a story of a young girl, lesbian black, who was killed because she was a lesbian, but that never got any kind of play at all. I remember Rosy O'Donnell talking about it (I don't like that woman), this was like I think in 01/02

I'm not saying gays don't get assaulted, they do and its horrible, but its no where near what other races have gone through and never will be.

calibro said

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

dude, why don't you get your head out of your ass and realize that's not even what the article is about. you have a ridiculous sense of pride that has no place in this conversation. and just for the hell of it "Gay is the new Black!" because you obviously have no clue what that means.

BOTH YOU AND TERESEUS1 ARE OUT OF LINE.

Perhaps, Terseus, you should real the entire article written by Reverend Sekou.

Here's what the first paragraph says:

Those who declare “Gay is the New Black” have outraged intellectuals, religious leaders, and politicians inside the black community. They have outraged, for instance, Rev. Irene Monroe, who identifies three cardinal sins of whiteness plaguing the gay-marriage movement: 1) exploiting black suffering and experiences to legitimate its own; 2) rallying against heterosexist oppression while remaining silent on its own white-skin privilege; 3) appropriating the content of the black civil rights movement but discarding the historical context. Rev. Monroe is right. If there is to be a black-and-gay coalition, it will have to listen to her.

Now, here's my question to the OP: Why did you omit the first paragraph???

^
I assumed that people would click on the link to read the entire story. The entire article is very good. I try not to copy entire stories for copyright reasons.

calibro said

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

dude, why don't you get your head out of your ass and realize that's not even what the article is about. you have a ridiculous sense of pride that has no place in this conversation. and just for the hell of it "Gay is the new Black!" because you obviously have no clue what that means.

Dumbass...NIGGER means Ignorant and any race can be a nigger

The quote formats were a little messed up.

Bayard Rustin was an amazing person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

I recommend watching Brother Outsider or buying the video. I bought 5 last years just to give away to people .. http://rustin.org/?page_id=2

metta8 said^
I assumed that people would click on the link to read the entire story. The entire article is very good. I try not to copy entire stories for copyright reasons.

Understood. But the first paragrah is important. Without it, you have people like Tereseus1 and Calibro saying outlandish shit.

^
pargraph added as per your request. I would still recommend reading the entire article. I originally posted this at 2:30 in the morning.

ActiveAndFit saidBayard Rustin was an amazing person.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin

I recommend watching Brother Outsider or buying the video. I bought 5 last years just to give away to people .. http://rustin.org/?page_id=2

Thanks for the information. I was not aware of this. They should make this documentary more readily available. The only place that it is for sale is on that web site. There is very little information on the internet regarding this documentary and the documentary was from 2003. I find that very strange. Well, I just ordered the documentary as well as one of the books.






http://www.pbs.org/pov/brotheroutsider/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0337902/

BlkMuscleGent said

metta8 said^
I assumed that people would click on the link to read the entire story. The entire article is very good. I try not to copy entire stories for copyright reasons.

Understood. But the first paragrah is important. Without it, you have people like Tereseus1 and Calibro saying outlandish shit.

ditto!! Communication saves the nation!

BlkMuscleGent said

metta8 said^
I assumed that people would click on the link to read the entire story. The entire article is very good. I try not to copy entire stories for copyright reasons.

Understood. But the first paragrah is important. Without it, you have people like Tereseus1 and Calibro saying outlandish shit.

Actually, I stick by my reply. Playing the "don't equate blacks with gays" card is ridiculous, and frankly, if you're only justification for it is you're black, that's hardly a reason. I don't remember Tereseus1 marching in Selma or being apart of the Freedom Riders. What sort of authority, aside from being related to people who experienced the civil rights movement, does he have to make statements about it? Furthermore, people have been battling for rights long before blacks. Guess what? The civil rights movement was based off the women's suffrage movement. Should women take offense to that? No. People have and will always fight for their liberties, and saying "gay is the new black" is simply a manner of saying gays are the newest group fighting. It doesn't diminish what African Americans went through nor excuse what was done to them; it's completely unrelated. So if someone is gonna start shit about playing the my race is victimized more card, I am gonna tell them to pull their head out of their asses, especially when they completely misread the article.

Regardless of what the article meant, I would be happy if gays would just learn their own history and struggles. There is no need to borrow anything from anyone else. We have over 1600 years of documented persecution that no one wants to bring up. The nature of homophobia is to cover up, even to this day, that history.

I have heard older gay men say that because gays are born to straight families, and there are generation gaps (aids almost wiped out one generation), there is no continuity or anyone to hand down the stories to. The nature of homophobia also caused gays to hide their history in shame like the surviving gays that suffered in Nazi Germany who were not even recognized until the last decade after they were almost all dead.

Since gays come from all races, nations and cultures there is no need to make our cause narrow. But Gays need to stand on their own feet and stop begging and groveling for rights because we or others don't know our own history.

calibro said

BlkMuscleGent said

metta8 said^
I assumed that people would click on the link to read the entire story. The entire article is very good. I try not to copy entire stories for copyright reasons.

Understood. But the first paragrah is important. Without it, you have people like Tereseus1 and Calibro saying outlandish shit.

Actually, I stick by my reply. Playing the "don't equate blacks with gays" card is ridiculous, and frankly, if you're only justification for it is you're black, that's hardly a reason. I don't remember Tereseus1 marching in Selma or being apart of the Freedom Riders. What sort of authority, aside from being related to people who experienced the civil rights movement, does he have to make statements about it? Furthermore, people have been battling for rights long before blacks. Guess what? The civil rights movement was based off the women's suffrage movement. Should women take offense to that? No. People have and will always fight for their liberties, and saying "gay is the new black" is simply a manner of saying gays are the newest group fighting. It doesn't diminish what African Americans went through nor excuse what was done to them; it's completely unrelated. So if someone is gonna start shit about playing the my race is victimized more card, I am gonna tell them to pull their head out of their asses, especially when they completely misread the article.

Sekou talks about people like you in the first paragraph of his article.

You have a right to your opinion, Calibro, though I disagree with it.

As regards Bayard R., I have great respect for the man. I remember watching a PBS documentary on him and thinking, "Wow! I want to be smart and courageous like Bayard R." And he could sing too!

BlkMuscleGent said
Sekou talks about people like you in the first paragraph of his article.

You have a right to your opinion, Calibro, though I disagree with it.

Except I find her statement (the reverend he is alluding to in that paragraph) to be egregious in her logic. Again, suffering is not limited and did not start with black people. It happened to be the first movement in America captured by the press and television, so it received a lot more attention than anything prior. People have always been suffering and they still do. If certain black people are so offended by having gays express their own battle for civil rights as a statement to imply they are the new wave of fighters, then they should look in the mirror and realize MLK Jr. march so that they could decades later debase gays for are now struggling. The hypocrisy is ludicrous and you can't copyright a movement or plight.

I think that we should have a tribute to him at the March in Washington as well as a tribute to Harvey Milk. These influential leaders need to be remembered and we need to learn from them.

No one has ever said the the struggles are the same. That is not the point. That was never the point. However, you cannot deny that they are both struggles for civil rights.

We must teach America and the World about the importance of learning about and honoring the impact that Bayard Rustin has had on the history of the civil rights movement. His impact has almost been ignored solely because he was gay. That is wrong. We need to right this wrong in history.

Here you can get the Bayard Rustin DVD for only 25.00 .. I thought it was well worth it

http://www.neoflix.com/store/Que77/

I also recommend Paragraph 175
http://www.amazon.com/Paragraph-175-Rupert-Everett/dp/B00005YUP1
The Life and Times of Harvey Milk
http://www.amazon.com/Times-Harvey-Milk-1984/dp/B0001Y4LDW/ref=pd_sim_d_2
or watch here .. http://www.hulu.com/watch/49577/the-times-of-harvey-milk
for the bible tells me so
http://www.amazon.com/Bible-Tells-Me-So/dp/B000YHQNCI/ref=pd_sim_d_4
There is also some stuff on stonewall on amazon.

More than anything get a good book on LGBT history

I'm sorry but I have to refute the gay men are the new nigger!

For one thing a homosexual can hide his sexuality, and a black fella, is black from birth. So right from birth, he can be subjected to discrimination, no matter how well behaved he be!

Yet a homosexuals sexuality is not prevalent from birth, and may never be! no matter how bad he may act.

So thus a black fella gets a double whammy, for being born black, and he can be rejected from his community and the white community, for being a homosexual too!

So I'm sorry, but I reject the thought that homosexuals are the new nigger.

Thats just playing the victim.

But in Oz, where once white man receives more rights than a black fella, and now newcomers to Oz, or even homosexuals only 1,2 or 3 generations born to Oz, get more rights than I do. A True blue Aussie; the real thing, and not some cheap import.

So I could say I'm the new black fella in Oz, but I don't play the victim, for being a homosexual.

matey saidI'm sorry but I have to refute the gay men are the new nigger!

Foe one thing a homosexual can hide his sexuality, and a black fella, is black from birth. So right from birth, he can be subjected to discrimination, no matter how well behaved he be!

Yest a homosexuals sexuality is not prevalent fro birth, and may never be! no matter how bad he may act.

So thus a black fella gets a double whammy, for being born black, and he can be rejected from his community and the white community.

So I'm sorry, but I reject the thought that homosexuals are the new nigger.

Thats just playing the victim.

But in Oz, where once white man receives more rights than a black fella, and now newcomers to Oz, or even homosexuals only i,2 or 3 generations born to Oz, get more rights than I do. A True blue Aussie; the real thing, and not some cheap import.

So I could say I'm the new black fella in Oz, but I don't play the victim, for being a homosexual.

Why don't you read the article in question before making blanket statements about it that in turns makes you seem like a fool. Again, that's not the point of this article, and if you can't read past the headline, sorry for you.

^
I wish that there was a way to force people to read the article before giving an opinion on it. They should not go by just the title. They should read the article to understand the title.

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

WOW, REALLY?
As a person of color it should be easy for you to parallel the two. While the fight or the reasons behind the fight might be different the cause is the same. The need to fight injustice should be the matter of fact. Speaking for myself, anyone who suffers intolerance is someone who I can relate to. No one's pain or sense of intolerance can be measured equal, However the common bond is that of prejudice and that leads to making others feel subject to exclusion. It seems way to easy to get lost in words. As a blk male who is also gay it's hard. It's at times surreal. There are people within yet another group where perhaps not by color at times but gender and preference that you seek solace and yet somehow thru their life experience you do not equate the same? The suffering is the same and no matter what, there are individuals seeking to keep your rights and your ability to feel part...Apart. and isn't that Parallel enough as we are all equal. Given birth as, Die as, Live as, Woman/Man. I will say on your behalf that sometimes people see things like nigger or words that are a negitive description of people of color and can not refocus to understand the content of how it's presented.

Hillie

Hillie,
You impress me, not that you need my adulation but I like what you wrote.

As for the current thread, I just think folks make comparisons simply to show that the civil rights movement is not dead. Aren't civil rights inclusive of all people? I believe the movement is evolving and becoming more inclusive as it should, right? I hope so. I think that was the spirit/intent of the article. It may have started with the Revolutionary War and the Bill of Rights then Women's Suffrage and the following Civil Rights Movement/Act(s), but now the LGBT community is raising its voice.

ActiveAndFit, I am really glad you brought up 'our history'. There is a long history of acceptance and oppression of gays. I wish this history was more well-known. Its sad how few know about the challenges gays have faced for over a thousand years...

@metta8
This is a great article, and one that should be taken in fully for its message. Thank you for sharing it! I also agree that we should honor both Bayard Rustin and Harvey Milk for being the truly great men that they are.

FYI: Mark Leno is a state senator that has re-introduced a bill (SB 572) in the legislature to designate May 22 as Harvey Milk day in California. It was passed by the Senate on May 14, 2009 and is pending approval of the Assembly and Gov. Schwarzenegger. The Gov vetoed the first attempt (AB 2567) in 2008.

@Hillie
Great response! You really hit the nail on the head. It is not about equating the suffering, but recognizing the shared injustices.

“Every indifference to prejudice is suicide because, if I don’t fight all bigotry, bigotry itself will be strengthened and, sooner or later, it will return on me.” Bayard Rustin.

Hillie, your post is dynamite!


thank you!

-us two

Certainly the kind of thread that makes you think. I would have said that the two don't have much commonality, but I think the post by Hille and some of what has been said here gives you pause.

Its easy to have a view, but its based on so many things, education, experience, upbringing. Your "reality" is fashioned by who you are...
and when you listen to others who have a different reality, we all should be flexible enough to consider carefully. I've learned something today.
I wish more were open minded.

Hillie said

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

WOW, REALLY?
As a person of color it should be easy for you to parallel the two. While the fight or the reasons behind the fight might be different the cause is the same. The need to fight injustice should be the matter of fact. Speaking for myself, anyone who suffers intolerance is someone who I can relate to. No one's pain or sense of intolerance can be measured equal, However the common bond is that of prejudice and that leads to making others feel subject to exclusion. It seems way to easy to get lost in words. As a blk male who is also gay it's hard. It's at times surreal. There are people within yet another group where perhaps not by color at times but gender and preference that you seek solace and yet somehow thru their life experience you do not equate the same? The suffering is the same and no matter what, there are individuals seeking to keep your rights and your ability to feel part...Apart. and isn't that Parallel enough as we are all equal. Given birth as, Die as, Live as, Woman/Man. I will say on your behalf that sometimes people see things like nigger or words that are a negitive description of people of color and can not refocus to understand the content of how it's presented.

Hillie

intelligence is so sexy, and you sir are a sexy beast

oo my this is going to be long..............again this is not in relation to the article..its in relation to the idea that "gays are the new form of nigger".......the two should never ever be uttered together in relation.

i stand by my opinion that both struggles should not be seen in the same light. Reason being that the black struggle and the fight to not be seen and classified as a nigger is still going on and that from what i have seen since moving to this country..yes im not American --- that Black Americans are still fighting for basic liberties and opportunities. "nigger" was basically institutionalized by the Government to keep blacks in check and feel inferior, and on some levels the word still has this effect on SOME Black Americans---to the point where they accept it.....i don't have to mention it as its prevalent in the areas of RAP, WELFARE AND THE LIKE. -----FOR THE POSTER MASCULINE31 TO STATE THAT NIGGER MEANS "IGNORANT" SHOW HOW MUCH SOME AMERICANS ARE EDUCATED. And to tell you the truth from being in this education system, I SAW HOW THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS WATERED DOWN when taught about the issue/history of race. This word alone when used was responsible for triggering countless lynchings/ physical and emotional harm in American history...and to tell you the truth the lynching is still happening in today's culture by being used only behind closed doors and on a different scale and in a different arena with regards to black interests. When it comes on to hating each other, this country excels in that area and i doubt it will ever change.

as for homosexuals yes there is a fight to be seen as equal...i agree.

. I know that homosexuals have needs but as far as i can see the only major issue that Homosexuals fight for is the right for marriage ( which is a JOKE as not all homosexuals believe in it as if your with a man for a month in the gay world that's an accomplishment plus.---the normal relationship span in the gay world is around 6 months tops. Only and i repeat-ONLY a few homosexual couples have had luck and have been together for years on end and that's only a small group. If Homosexuals are given the chance to marry i feel that divorce proceedings will be filed allot proving that it might have been a bad idea to give access to the idea of marriage as it will only be made a mockery of). Am i right or wrong???? The second fight within the gay interest is the fight to feel normal and not be victimized physically/ emotionally. (hate crimes and what not) - (and the right to get certain benefits on paper)--thats it..This fight im afraid can be fought on Capitol Hill yes but it can only be resolved from home starting with who become parents. As parents teach us to hate and they teach us how to love.

so to say that "gay" struggle is the new "nigger" struggle is saying that the use of the word "nigger" no longer exist-- that there is no more struggles for blacks in general. Both racial/political struggles have different aims and agendas and should never be seen as alike. I dont pay attention to experts or whatever article this was in correlation to as their lives and ideology is different from mines......... i read in someones reply post that "anyone that suffers from intolerance you can sympathize with" i don't feel so, as being gay and white is different from being gay and black. You can hide the fact of being gay but you cant hide the fact of being black and whether you believe it or not certain doors are still closed to blacks..yes in 2009 i am not lying........If such an idea is believed on a widespread...whats to stop the next stage ---where people that take part in bestiality to start their fight and compare it to the gay struggle......picture this....."ZOOPHILIAs are the new GAYS"....

this is my opinion and you can blast me or agree..it doesn't matter as i said my part on the issue and will stand by my decision.

tereseus1 saidI know that homosexuals have needs but as far as i can see the only major issue that Homosexuals fight for is the right for marriage ( which is a JOKE as not all homosexuals believe in it as if your with a man for a month in the gay world that's an accomplishment plus.---the normal relationship span in the gay world is around 6 months tops. Only and i repeat-ONLY a few homosexual couples have had luck and have been together for years on end and that's only a small group. If Homosexuals are given the chance to marry i feel that divorce proceedings will be filed allot proving that it might have been a bad idea to give access to the idea of marriage as it will only be made a mockery of). Am i right or wrong???? The second fight within the gay interest is the fight to feel normal and not be victimized physically/ emotionally. (hate crimes and what not) - (and the right to get certain benefits on paper)--thats it..This fight im afraid can be fought on Capitol Hill yes but it can only be resolved from home starting with who become parents. As parents teach us to hate and they teach us how to love.

You are WRONG at the most and at the very least you are only viewing a very narrow aspect of gay marriage and some of the other issues such as DADT, Adoption privileges and finally to be viewed in society as 'normal/mainstream' and not special or freakish. From 'why you should give a damn about gay marriage': There are more than 1,138 federal rights that accompany civil marriage, and some additional 300-600 per individual state. That means your run-of-the-mill-marriage-license-carrying heterosexual couple has access to over 1,400 rights, benefits, and protections. I can repeat that again if you are still in shock: 1,400 rights, benefits, and protections. 1,400 is a big number. Just try and name 1,400 of your favorite songs or 1,400 of your closest friends.

tereseus1 saidthis is my opinion and you can blast me or agree..it doesn't matter as i said my part on the issue and will stand by my decision.

This statement frustrates me and makes me wonder why I even bother to reply to your comments! That is the same sort of attitude that keeps the black and gay community down! Closed minds that refuse to open to new ideas...will never change their opinion of us; its a real shame we have them within our own community.

I won't go into detail about how you point out how blacks are still being held down by society and by their own demographic (your RAP reference) yet you can not recognize that you are doing the same thing within the gay community and I suspect, the black one as well! How shallow!

tereseus1 saidoo my this is going to be long..............again this is not in relation to the article..its in relation to the idea that "gays are the new form of nigger".......the two should never ever be uttered together in relation.

i stand by my opinion that both struggles should not be seen in the same light. Reason being that the black struggle and the fight to not be seen and classified as a nigger is still going on and that from what i have seen since moving to this country..yes im not American --- that Black Americans are still fighting for basic liberties and opportunities. "nigger" was basically institutionalized by the Government to keep blacks in check and feel inferior, and on some levels the word still has this effect on SOME Black Americans---to the point where they accept it.....i don't have to mention it as its prevalent in the areas of RAP, WELFARE AND THE LIKE. -----FOR THE POSTER MASCULINE31 TO STATE THAT NIGGER MEANS "IGNORANT" SHOW HOW MUCH SOME AMERICANS ARE EDUCATED. And to tell you the truth from being in this education system, I SAW HOW THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS WATERED DOWN when taught about the issue/history of race. This word alone when used was responsible for triggering countless lynchings/ physical and emotional harm in American history...and to tell you the truth the lynching is still happening in today's culture by being used only behind closed doors and on a different scale and in a different arena with regards to black interests. When it comes on to hating each other, this country excels in that area and i doubt it will ever change.

as for homosexuals yes there is a fight to be seen as equal...i agree.

. I know that homosexuals have needs but as far as i can see the only major issue that Homosexuals fight for is the right for marriage ( which is a JOKE as not all homosexuals believe in it as if your with a man for a month in the gay world that's an accomplishment plus.---the normal relationship span in the gay world is around 6 months tops. Only and i repeat-ONLY a few homosexual couples have had luck and have been together for years on end and that's only a small group. If Homosexuals are given the chance to marry i feel that divorce proceedings will be filed allot proving that it might have been a bad idea to give access to the idea of marriage as it will only be made a mockery of). Am i right or wrong???? The second fight within the gay interest is the fight to feel normal and not be victimized physically/ emotionally. (hate crimes and what not) - (and the right to get certain benefits on paper)--thats it..This fight im afraid can be fought on Capitol Hill yes but it can only be resolved from home starting with who become parents. As parents teach us to hate and they teach us how to love.

so to say that "gay" struggle is the new "nigger" struggle is saying that the use of the word "nigger" no longer exist-- that there is no more struggles for blacks in general. Both racial/political struggles have different aims and agendas and should never be seen as alike. I dont pay attention to experts or whatever article this was in correlation to as their lives and ideology is different from mines......... i read in someones reply post that "anyone that suffers from intolerance you can sympathize with" i don't feel so, as being gay and white is different from being gay and black. You can hide the fact of being gay but you cant hide the fact of being black and whether you believe it or not certain doors are still closed to blacks..yes in 2009 i am not lying........If such an idea is believed on a widespread...whats to stop the next stage ---where people that take part in bestiality to start their fight and compare it to the gay struggle......picture this....."ZOOPHILIAs are the new GAYS"....

this is my opinion and you can blast me or agree..it doesn't matter as i said my part on the issue and will stand by my decision.

Aside from the incredibly disturbing write offs of gays only lacking marriage in terms of equality, your points are just... just... ignorant. You really seem to not get the point of the article, and though you state your point has nothing to do with this post, you continue to defend it as if it does. You have no authority in this because your information is just wrong and you speak as if you are a representation of many, despite the fact that you acknowledge it's your opinion. And the sheer audacity to come here and insinuate that gays and bestiality can be equated is insulting on the most egregious level. Why don't you stop being black and start being a person and realize you're letting your own race influence your perception of equality for others and deriding them for the sake of proving you're the bigger victim.

you know. there are a lot of shared injustices from one prejudice to another. nobody can say that one is as equally terrible as another, nor weaker, nor stronger, because personal experiences change the formula.

while i'm not going to proclaim that gay is the new black, or other cliché phrase, neither will i slingshot spittle in my rush to trounce someone who does. sometimes i think we are driven by the drama of emotions and thrive on the festering pain of others. it saddens me that so many of us are busy clawing and stomping on one another to reach the top of the dog pile until someone else pulls us down rather than coming together as a people, a team, to find a better way of life.

nothing so detracting from progress as the heat of conflict.

That's a helluva good post, Firefighter.


We remember the 60s, and Spic (latino), Dago and Wop (italian), Polak (polish), Chug (native indian) Chink (chinese), Beaner (mexican) rag-head/paki (middle eastern), Kike (jewish) faggot, queer (gays), gashes and slits (women)...

....OK we're both ready to vomit now.


So Tereseus, you need to read more history...

...and realize no one should ever be, like firefighter pointed out, trying to be at the top of the heap in persecution; we're all in this together.


....though Bill sometimes says that LGBTs are the great equalizers; hated equally by all races, creeds and colours. We bring mankind together in mutual hatred. lol!

meninlove said
....though Bill sometimes says that LGBTs are the great equalizers; hated equally by all races, creeds and colours. We bring mankind together in mutual hatred. lol!

Razor blades, aisle four.

masculine31 said

calibro said

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

dude, why don't you get your head out of your ass and realize that's not even what the article is about. you have a ridiculous sense of pride that has no place in this conversation. and just for the hell of it "Gay is the new Black!" because you obviously have no clue what that means.

Dumbass...NIGGER means Ignorant and any race can be a nigger

Uh no, where the hell did you learn that?

we were doing the suffering and being persecuted thing millennia before the blacks

Let me begin w/ an apology to Metta8 who's entire thread is somewhat lost and now devoted to tereseus1 and trying to bring him to the DARK SIDE...lol
( in poor taste, I know) Having said that...................


tereseus1, I feel the need to reach out to you and try to get my thought across w/out you feeling attacked. I have read your last post and clearly you are damaged, broken and seriously hurting. Life in the most simplistic of terms is about sharing who you are w/ the rest of the world.
How you share yourself by choice and life lesson comes in multiple tiers of strength, joy, sorrow...etc. thru this journey at times you meet individuals that you ask to join you. Almost like being on a long stretch of road and picking up a hitchhiker. Sometimes that person is in for the long haul, hence the term life partner and sometimes they need to get out at the next REST stop! (key word REST) how long of a rest....decided by both involved.
Your thoughts on gay men, marriage and longevity sounds like a bigoted straight man! On some level I understand the coment, but please realize that as you evolve as a man people come and go in your life for various reasons but Ideally the purpose is to learn as we all have a gift to share nourish and equate growth from the experience. You sound jaded? Relationships on all levels are a wrk in progress and some are better at it than others but I can assure you that there are MANY GAY MEN that have found love raise children and are devoted to sharing their journey side by side. Don't doubt that's possible as you may miss the chance to have that yourself.
I don't know if you read my last reply but I want to tell you that NIGGER how ever defined is a word, the strength of that WORD is the power that you give it and can be no more powerful than me telling you something that you might have an emotional attachment to like if your obsessed w/ a deformed toe nail and I criticize it. The term "Is_____ The new blk" is a common quote. every yr the fashion institutes a new color by calling it the new blk because for a man a blk suit is a necessity as a little cocktail blk dress is the equivalent and since you can't own everything in one color the idea is to tell the consumer that pink, red, green is the new blk to make you belive you want the newest blk which is the color of that season.
Reading your post, you seem lost at hope on some level. My brain sometimes tells me that you need to except the evil as it can make you understand the depth of the goodness of man! What would the world be w/out a tyrant? realistically everyone can't be good and that's life but the hope is there and is what I thrive for daily! It's what makes me say hello to a stranger, Put a walker in a car for a sr citizen...etc.
I don't want you to get lost in a word. Focus on the intent of the meaning of how it was written. No one has implied that the struggle for blk is over because it is not there are many things to still accomplish, but the movement for gay men and women to move forward and receive all the things that straight men and women receive is by far hands dwn the media's SPOTLIGHT. It's a pressing issue that needs to reviewed, challenged and rewritten.
Socially you have been conditioned to think as a straight bigoted man which clearly comes thru in your reply. In life I can't stress enough your greatest joy is to be and to remain open as everyone has something to offer in which you will learn and grow. Be open to that experience. Do you really believe that straight married couples hold the cornerstone on marriage when divorce is at an all time high? There's so many things I want to highlight but I don't want to drag this out.
Yes I can hide my sexual orientation and no I cannot hide the fact that I'm blk, But I also grew up in an affluent community and had Lot's of THINGS and at times am told that I myself am not blk because my life experience is not the norm as some might see it.
Be CLEAR that it has been very real and I don't discount the authenticity of your experience but because of this I would think that you and I could not march or fight side by side am I not viewd as your equal? Is the meaning and intent not the same? Should I not value you blkness because your not an American Blk? If I were to tell you that you recently came to this country and your experience thus far has been limited and mine is one of 37yrs? Do you consider yourself American would you die for your country do you not honor those that fight for your freedom daily? ( No matter what your stance is on the war) Should I not validate what you have encountered? The Scale as you mentioned is meant to be balanced. All people have a BASIC RIGHT TO LIVE LOVE AND BE HAPPY. The fact that you don't acknowledge gay men in there quest to live a life full and blessed leaves many who read it staggered and floored!
Lastly, reading your reply you sound like a rebel someone who's encountered much and have fought your way to a place you deem comfortable just know that TRUE STRENGTH comes in the ability to listen and learn as when you listen you VALIDATE those to which you speak which creates them to be OPEN and that CREATES EXPRESSION and DIALOUGE. when HEARD you LEARN, GROW and take that KNOWELEGE pass it along and it's an EVOLVING STRUCTURE. Kinda like frm the beginning of time to now. I truly wish you greatness and the ability of acceptance, COMPASSION, TOLERANCE, HUMILITY, HUMANITY and LOVE and all the joys that make you smile. I wish you, YOU in COMPLETENESS in it's most rarest form.

Now go outside and play.....LOL

Hillie

P.s. I just want to say to Navy96, Calibro, Creyente, HndsmKansam and of course Bill and Doug. Thank you so very much and not for agreeing w/ me but I guess in hearing and acknowleging my existence on this thread as we all need validation frm time to time. Reading threads and replys has made me think a lot about the direction of my life and many times as I write a reply I hear myself talk out loud frm places I have not visited in a long time and it's always good to revisit and reground...self.....Thank you

hmmm..."hillie." you don't know me at all so i think its really bold of you to try to sum up a person that you have not met or talked to personally. However you failed at your attempt to convey a stance that ill forever go against. And for you to go out of your way to email me saying that you left a reply post to my statements shows that you take this issue more serious than myself. I apologize that i don't share your own enthusiasm but i do have other pressing affairs to deal with beyond Real Jock. I made my stated opinion and i defended it and moved on. It was nice reading your fictional depiction of me though.

Article Black, brown, and white folks—lesbian, gay, queer, and in drag—began to fight back against the systematic persecution, mocking and attacking the police. Supporters of the Stonewall patrons gathered outside in solidarity.

News reports and eyewitness accounts say that folks in the streets began to sing, “We shall overcome!” Soon after, all hell broke loose. Police, Stonewall patrons, and their supporters engaged in a brawl. That night, black and white queer folks were beaten together as niggers.

and

Rustin in the articleEvery indifference to prejudice is suicide because, if I don’t fight all bigotry, bigotry itself will be strengthened and, sooner or later, it will return on me.

That is the most compelling vision for civil rights movements in America.

Wow, MunchingZombie, that's great. Thanks for the post.

....and in the words of some red-neck, acting-out (the dangerous part) straights we had the misfortune to encounter (yep Canada has its share)

We were called, "White niggers"



-us guys

tereseus1 saidthe only connection between the words "nigger" and "Homo-gay" is that they both spread hate but both have separate meanings and history and i dont think gay individuals should ever link the two. Do not compare being gay to a separate struggle that shows conflict between races......races and sexuality is two different things and the idiot that first started this claim "gay is the new black"...please...they should not be in the same category.

What is a "Homo-gay"? The word is faggot. Let's not mince words if we're going to make fair comparisons. The N-word is pretty much forbidden in mass media today but you can still hear fag and faggot and gay used derogatorily in movies and TV as well as on the street.

Having said that, I'll also note that I've seen/heard plenty of racism within the gay community and it always weirds me out. The best way to answer the topic question is to ask gay blacks (or black gays) what they experience more prejudice from - race or sexual orientation. To answer fairly they would have to be out. When I have asked this, the answer has been sexuality.

Here is why some of us who are the "old Blacks" and the Old N's are literally shaking our heads. When gay are actually allowed to serve and Gay Marriage is become legal in most if not all states. Which is basically what the issues are?
Will you still be so passionate in your efforts to wear these scarlet letters? Prolly not.

I have to admit I was very upset when I those phrases was being batted about like birdie in a Badminton match. I got over it it real quick.
When I first heard those terms, I felt as if my history as African American was being high-jacked. I became angry because I got the immediate sense that the "gay white male community was stating that our struggles in this country are the same and neither are true.

I'm nolonger suffering from chronic amazement when I hear We want our "civil rights". I no longer look at our struggles through the same lens as I do and did with history of civil rights of people of color in this country.
Because they are so diffrent.

If you want to call yourself the New Blacks go ahead if you even want to refer to yourselves as the New N's have at it.
In doing so you have to also accept the fact that there are going to be those who are African American who will take you task for doing so.

Mainly because of our own gay community struggles with race and racism, it's an ELAPHANT in the room that few want to admit that it's there but it is. It's the creepy relative that no one wants to sit next to at the during family gathering during the holidays.

While you may be up in arms on Gays not being able to serve in military and Gay Marriage not being the law of the land. The above brands are only temporary labels to you but to us these are permanent. One of these phrases if used.

It’s something that we live with everyday and will continue to live with. You won’t nor will you. If its makes you feel more empowered to consider your selves the “New Blacks” or “The New N’s” hey do what you do. But for us oldies but goodies there is nothing empowering about being called or labeled an “N”. no matter what context it is being used in to put fourth ones agenda.

Hey Ducky45 in our case it was straight bigots calling us white niggers.

In your country there are many places where being gay gets you fired, denied health care, etc.

Ducky45 said While you may be up in arms on Gays not being able to serve in military and Gay Marriage not being the law of the land. The above brands are only temporary labels to you but to us these are permanent. One of these phrases if used.

What do you mean?

latino is the new black, asian is the new black, aids is the new black, black is new jew, women are new jew, intellectual is the new women, there is an endless list. in terms of what it implies, there is zero difference. those who interpret it literally are slow.

also, those that are trying to claim the title of "the most persecuted eva" seem to have just settled for the life of a victim permanently. you are not honouring anyone by getting ahead in that competition, you are just holding yourself back. pain is fucking pain. gay kids on the playgrounds will tell you that, and not two fags trying to adopt.

Ducky makes a good point.

Being African American, there is no way you can hide your race in the "closet". It's with you from the day you're born until the day you die. To have another group hijack that in order to further it's own goals while sharing none of the stigma of actually being African American just isn't right.

Create your own bloody history. Make your own continued and efficient impact on the world. Then gay won't need to be the new-anything in order to further the fight for equal rights.

RyanReBoRn saidDucky makes a good point.

Being African American, there is no way you can hide your race in the "closet". It's with you from the day you're born until the day you die. To have another group hijack that in order to further it's own goals while sharing none of the stigma of actually being African American just isn't right.

Create your own bloody history. Make your own continued and efficient impact on the world. Then gay won't need to be the new-anything in order to further the fight for equal rights.

Right! Couldn't have said it any better myself.

RyanReBoRn saidDucky makes a good point.

Being African American, there is no way you can hide your race in the "closet". It's with you from the day you're born until the day you die. To have another group hijack that in order to further it's own goals while sharing none of the stigma of actually being African American just isn't right.

Create your own bloody history. Make your own continued and efficient impact on the world. Then gay won't need to be the new-anything in order to further the fight for equal rights.

So the problem is that gays can hide it but blacks can't? Not the society which forces gays into the closet?

Did you read the article at all?

RyanReBoRn saidDucky makes a good point.

Being African American, there is no way you can hide your race in the "closet". It's with you from the day you're born until the day you die. To have another group hijack that in order to further it's own goals while sharing none of the stigma of actually being African American just isn't right.

Create your own bloody history. Make your own continued and efficient impact on the world. Then gay won't need to be the new-anything in order to further the fight for equal rights.

I wish you would stop seeing this as an African American thing. Gays didn't hijack anything. If anything, it's people like you who hijack the victim card in discussions like this. Gays were persecuted long before the Europeans came to Africa and began slavery. Guess what? Women are probably the most persecuted of anybody and have been for the longest time. Blacks weren't the first, and they weren't the last; they were just the most recent movement. Saying Gay is the new Black is a way of saying gay rights is the latest civil rights battle. If you can't understand that then you have no business preaching stuff along the lines of MKL Jr., who knew it was far more than just skin color.

What happened to COMPREHENSION? It's that thing that happens after you've read something, processed it and then........UNDERSTOOD IT!

For starters I'll give you the fact that I nor you can hide our color but in that same breath I also can ask you about the kid who somehow screams of a gay identity. That kid who gets teased and can't figure out why? Who's mannerisms are more feminine than the grl next door and as butch as he tries to act he just seems more gay? His experience is real but his. You can't compare the two and can tell neither that one has suffered more than the other cause their is no measurement for an individuals pain. It is monumental to their story and theirs alone. I get everything you say at the same time there is a bigger meaning, logic and sense of awareness in the title and the article which has somehow stirred the kettle. The " New Black" is a commonly used phased that has nothing to do w/ race or anything negative. In fact, it is used to make people by into the concept of what the new is.

The fact that someone would script anything such as create your own bloody history is a testament to your lack of KNOWLEDGE. Understand that the very freedom you posses and that allows you to walk w/ ignorance is fought by men and women who are serving to protect you as you lay to bed every night. Some of those men and women who fight for your freedom are shackled to a law that opposes the very thing they give their life for. As a man you should be outraged, As a american you should be outraged, as a gay man you should be outraged and as a blk man who's history at one time paralleled this very agenda as blk men fought and came home and were still segregated is parallel enough for you to see the similarities. History is doomed to repeat itself and look the players may look different but the board game remains the same...... LIES, SEPERATION, INTOLERENCE, RACISIM, SUFFERING,PAIN MURDER,SUICIDE.........

I waited to post on this subject because I wanted to see just how uninformed some of the posts would be. And I was not disappointed.

It is interesting that a lot of people, particularly the younger set, obviously don’t understand that civil rights for one group are civil rights for all groups. I will get back to that in a second. What I found questionable in the article was the use of the word nigger, but I understand the spirit in which it was used. While the issues and struggles may differ as they are connected to the culture of the oppressed group, the oppression is the major issue at hand when civil rights are discussed. The author of the article was simply trying to say that currently, no other group of people can understand the plight of gay people better than the black community. I whole-heartedly agree with that tenet. It has always baffled me that the black community gets enraged at the mere idea that someone or some other group of people wants to ‘steal away’ the struggle or evoke the words of Martin Luther King, jr.

I also noticed those who don’t seem to see a correlation between the two groups mentioned Bayard Rustin. He was out when he was told it would hurt the civil rights movement of blacks and was asked to step back from his gayness. He was one of Dr. King’s closest advisors and was one of the writers of the infamous speech that galvanized this nation and was the chief architect of that march on Washington. It is shameful that he would never be able to reap the rewards of his work and be his true self, dying nearly friendless and penniless.

For those of you who would argue the two movements are separate and should never be seen in the same frame sound exactly like this black woman who appeared on the Dr. Phil show when part two of the Gay Marriage Issue was being discussed. I wanted to reach through the television and snatch her up and ask her if she had lost her mind when she said there were millions of ex-gays in the world but that no one has ever seen or known and ex-black. She also was a proponent, a very angry and vocal one, of the ‘unspeakable joining of the civil rights movement and gay rights movement’. She, like so many in that audience against gay marriage are so closed off and have bought so heavily into the mindset of this struggle is my struggle and you damn well will leave it alone.

The Courage Campaign in California announced last month a partnership which will join black churches with them to educate those who were bamboozled into voting yes on Prop 8 in the black community. They get it. Coretta Scott King, wife of Dr. Martin Luther King, jr., went on record stating that she not only supported gay rights but also that gay rights were in fact civil rights. It is time to let go and understand that injustice anywhere is injustice everywhere. Dr. King said that just before his death and he meant it for ALL of us.

Tereseus, RyanReborn, Shifty, and to a degree Ducky (but I really do think overall Ducky gets it), it is time to move on. A new era is upon us and you will be a part of it. Just make sure you know your history before you enter the fray. As I have said in other threads near this subject, my parents were there in 50’s and 60’s being arrested. I was there in Washington as a child for black civil rights, reaped the benefits of the Supreme Court striking down interracial marriages being unlawful and as an adult in Washington both times for gay civil rights. The issues themselves are different, but they all have a common denominator-Injustice, Inequality and Oppressiveness.

And as to the gays having our own history, we do. I would suggest that if you lack that knowledge to pick up some books and rent a few movies or go to a few film festivals during pride season especially. To put it simply: Black history and Gay history is American history. I would also ask the gay community to do the same.

@ErikTaurean

Nicely stated! You are correct, we should all learn about each others' and our own history.

@calibro

You have already expressed eloquently the reasons why there are similarities in the movements. Don't allow them to drag you into a debate on whose suffering came first or which is worse. It is irrelevant.

The only thing that is relevant is that there is a set of shared civil rights violations that form the basis of a partnership to fight injustices against all people. Beyond that it's all divisive rhetoric.

United we stand, divided we fall.