"Bug" chasing and "Gift" giving

  • TallSoCal

    Posts: 321

    Jul 11, 2009 4:43 AM GMT
    I couldn't find a previous thread regarding this topic, and to be honest, I didn't really look that hard. Haha. But seriously. This freaked me out a little bit. For those of you that don't know what "bug chasing" is, here's the definition I found on wikipedia.

    "Bugchasing (or bug chasing) is a LGBT slang term for a subculture of Homosexual men who actively pursue HIV infection.

    Bugchasers seek sexual partners who are HIV positive for the purpose of having unprotected sex and sero-converting; giftgivers (also gift givers) are HIV positive men who comply with the bugchaser's efforts to become infected with HIV."

    I mean...I'm really speechless as to way to say about this. There are really people out there that do this? o_O What do you guys think?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 11:15 AM GMT
    Yes, it's quite common and yes, it's utterly insane. There isn't a great deal more to say...
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 11, 2009 12:58 PM GMT
    I've heard of it. I'm sure there must be mental illness involved.

    icon_mad.gif
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Jul 11, 2009 1:16 PM GMT
    Suicide. Self Multilation. I have read about it. They even have bareback parties where the poz guy will top all the negative . They say once you have it you dont have to worry about it. Wait until the disease is wrecking their immune system, build resistance against all the drug they are taking. When all their money and resources is gone to paid for HIV medical expenses. They are to weak to work. Their body reduce to bones. Karposi Sarcoma start growing all over their body. A common flu take weeks to recover. By that time all tears in the world are just to late.

    They should visited the AIDS temple in Labpori Thailand (goolge that), to see how horrible AIDS patient can be. There picture, real life patient (mostly abundance by family) and a corpse of AIDS victim who donated their body to the temple.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 1:27 PM GMT
    Yes, there is this sort of subculture of gay men (normally, I wouldn't slap the "gay" only label here, but I've never heard of anyone in the straight community that is doing this) who willingly want to get infected so they don't ever have to worry about it anymore. These are usually the people who are under the impression, "you just take a pill a day...it's nothing." These are usually young people who have clearly never met anyone who's been living with HIV for a good length of time, or known anyone who's been infected with more than one strain that's meds did not work for and died within a few months...and yes, I've known both.

    I've also met HIV+ people that purposefully want to infect others as a way of leaving a legacy behind when they are gone. How's that for fucked up.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 1:30 PM GMT
    so what about the responsibility of the guys who are hiv poz? should they not refuse to do this? isn't this supposed to be a criminal act?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 1:39 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you saidso what about the responsibility of the guys who are hiv poz? should they not refuse to do this? isn't this supposed to be a criminal act?


    Why hold the poz guy up on this.

    Our health is fully based on the choices we make. So dont make someone else accountable for your behavior.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 1:43 PM GMT
    sfinboston said
    Blackguy4you saidso what about the responsibility of the guys who are hiv poz? should they not refuse to do this? isn't this supposed to be a criminal act?


    Why hold the poz guy up on this.

    Our health is fully based on the choices we make. So dont make someone else accountable for your behavior.


    so an 18 year old guy goes to a 42 year old guy and asks him to infect him and you don't think that the 42 year old has any responsibility to bear?

    well i guess i can't be that callous. I believe that no man is an island, that we are all our brothers' keepers'
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 1:49 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    sfinboston said
    Blackguy4you saidso what about the responsibility of the guys who are hiv poz? should they not refuse to do this? isn't this supposed to be a criminal act?


    Why hold the poz guy up on this.

    Our health is fully based on the choices we make. So dont make someone else accountable for your behavior.


    so an 18 year old guy goes to a 42 year old guy and asks him to infect him and you don't think that the 42 year old has any responsibility to bear?

    well i guess i can't be that callous. I believe that no man is an island, that we are all our brothers' keepers'


    We are talking consenting adults here. But as an old person who more knowledge then yes.

    But that wasnt your question earlier...it was putting all the blame on the poz guy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 1:56 PM GMT
    Its a difficult subject to discuss really. Its so insane! I dont get it. Both the "chaser" and the "gift giver" need help in my opinion.

    The good news... its not the death sentence anymore. But why? Why would anyone want to inflict that social stigma to themselves or to someone else. To live a life of caution, very expensive drug treatment, and still yet ingorance by many gay men who still dont understand this disease.

    Why...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 2:03 PM GMT
    sfinboston said
    Blackguy4you said
    sfinboston said
    Blackguy4you saidso what about the responsibility of the guys who are hiv poz? should they not refuse to do this? isn't this supposed to be a criminal act?


    Why hold the poz guy up on this.

    Our health is fully based on the choices we make. So dont make someone else accountable for your behavior.


    so an 18 year old guy goes to a 42 year old guy and asks him to infect him and you don't think that the 42 year old has any responsibility to bear?

    well i guess i can't be that callous. I believe that no man is an island, that we are all our brothers' keepers'


    We are talking consenting adults here. But as an old person who more knowledge then yes.

    But that wasnt your question earlier...it was putting all the blame on the poz guy.


    Where in my question did I say I was putting all the blame on the poz guy? I asked about his responsibility in this fiasco. i.e does he or does he not have any?

    We are talking about consenting adults at two disparate levels of maturity or hopefully so. ..
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 2:05 PM GMT
    So if assisted suicide is illegal

    People have faced a variety of criminal charges for knowingly infecting others with HIV under many legal systems

    Logically to knowingly infect someone with the disease, even if they were aware and willing should to be a crime right?




  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 2:26 PM GMT


    What's likely to happen ( it always amazes me that people like that don't fully realize there are usually long term consequences for something like this) is restrictions on HIV meds etc. and litigation - lots of it. Especially in the US, there are likely to be individuals denied any coverage for being willful spreaders of this disease.

    There's also the specter of quarantine - remember typhoid Mary? These people do an enormous disservice to gays - they give your christian-right fanatics all the ammo they need.


    Everyone should realize that all the new meds are increasing life expectancy, possibly enough so that a 20 year old taking the meds could live as long as 40 years more. This doesn't take into account the quality of life, which can be wracked with misery.


    -Doug
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 3:02 PM GMT
    zakariahzol saidSuicide. Self Multilation. I have read about it. They even have bareback parties where the poz guy will top all the negative . They say once you have it you dont have to worry about it. Wait until the disease is wrecking their immune system, build resistance against all the drug they are taking. When all their money and resources is gone to paid for HIV medical expenses. They are to weak to work. Their body reduce to bones. Karposi Sarcoma start growing all over their body. A common flu take weeks to recover. By that time all tears in the world are just to late.


    Not to mention being ignored at Splash.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 3:26 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said

    so an 18 year old guy goes to a 42 year old guy and asks him to infect him and you don't think that the 42 year old has any responsibility to bear?



    Why would you assume that the guy who is HIV+ is 42? LOL!

    You do realize that the majority of newly infected men are under 29 (about 34%). Every HIV+ person I know was infected before they were 29 years old, and was infected BY someone under 29 years old.

    Yes, if you are HIV+ and you know it, you should act responsibly and let your partner know.

    However, if you choose to engage in risky behavior, YOU are ultimately responsible for your actions.

    It's a two way street...be responsible.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 3:30 PM GMT
    "I've also met HIV+ people that purposefully want to infect others as a way of leaving a legacy behind when they are gone. How's that for fucked up."


    now THAT is terrifying- not only because it'd be so easy for someone like that to lie their way into you trusting them, but because aside from sex, there are so many ways to infect someone- its just a pinprick away...

    reminds me of the urban legend i heard of an HIV+ guy dipping a tack in his blood and then leaving it embedded upright in a movie theatre seat- then someone sat on it without looking (we all do) and became infected.... after hearing that i always gingerly swipe my hand over movie seats before sitting lol
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Jul 11, 2009 3:45 PM GMT
    Well, quite frankly, from the perspective of the older guy, who's probably been socially stigmatized because of the disease, if a young twat came up an said 'fuck my brains out and give me HIV' he's probably going to assume te younger guy knows the deal you get with HIV and realize that if the kid doesn't get it from him he's going to go somewhere else.

    Quite frankly, if you are retarded enough to WANT HIV, then go ahead and get it. The blind idealism behind the idea that the 'giver' should be more responsible for the chasers health than the chaser himself is ludicrous, to say the least. YOU protect yourself, NOT others.

    Having said that, in Canada, there are laws (or at least precedent) that allows for the willful spread of HIV to an unknowing victim to be tried as (at the very least) manslaughter. Recently, a woman sleeping with military guys.

    Here's a link to an article about this in Canada
    http://www.articlesbase.com/law-articles/the-first-case-of-hiv-murder-in-canada-891820.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 3:51 PM GMT
    One can only hope HIV will be eradicated over the next decade or so. It's a terrible disease, but I find all this judgement and fingerpointing disturbing.

    The world is filled with viruses and harmful bacteria. If you've ever had early signs of the flu and still gone to work, you may have infected others (gift giving?). If you were a parent 10 years ago and actually wanted your child to get chicken pox early in life, would that be considered bug chasing?

    HIV is just another virus that we all have to avoid or deal with. What makes this one so much more immoral than all the others? Perhaps if we can learn to put the stigma aside, we'd be much closer to a cure.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 4:25 PM GMT
    last i heard, in the state of Georgia you can get up to 5 years prison time per person that you infect.
    if youre turned in that is.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 5:07 PM GMT
    HIV is not just another virus. It's a long-lasting "gift" that is ultimately fatal in the great majority of cases.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 5:07 PM GMT
    SeaSon saidOne can only hope HIV will be eradicated over the next decade or so. It's a terrible disease, but I find all this judgement and fingerpointing disturbing.

    The world is filled with viruses and harmful bacteria. If you've ever had early signs of the flu and still gone to work, you may have infected others (gift giving?). If you were a parent 10 years ago and actually wanted your child to get chicken pox early in life, would that be considered bug chasing?

    HIV is just another virus that we all have to avoid or deal with. What makes this one so much more immoral than all the others? Perhaps if we can learn to put the stigma aside, we'd be much closer to a cure.


    From what I can see, the only person who has brought up stigma and immoral is you... why did you do that?

    And it's simple- unlike some of those viruses that you mentioned AIDS kills 100% of the times.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 5:15 PM GMT
    czarodziej saidreminds me of the urban legend i heard of an HIV+ guy dipping a tack in his blood and then leaving it embedded upright in a movie theatre seat- then someone sat on it without looking (we all do) and became infected.... after hearing that i always gingerly swipe my hand over movie seats before sitting lol


    oxygen is your friend. It kills the HIV virus. The actually likelihood of that happening is LOW: after a few minutes the oxygen in the air would kill the virus, added to which, your clothes would remove almost all the blood. Load of crap.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 5:34 PM GMT
    Joecifer said "Why would you assume that the guy who is HIV+ is 42?"

    Most of the guys that I know who are my age or older and have been infected with HIV are dead. That is 41 of my friends from 1980 (Mark Reed San Antonio Texas) to 1998 who died from this. We are missing a generation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 5:38 PM GMT
    UrsaMajor saidJoecifer said "Why would you assume that the guy who is HIV+ is 42?"

    Most of the guys that I know who are my age or older and have been infected with HIV are dead. That is 41 of my friends from 1980 (Mark Reed San Antonio Texas) to 1998 who died from this. We are missing a generation.


    And doesn't this crap upset you?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 11, 2009 5:39 PM GMT
    Joecifer said
    Blackguy4you said

    so an 18 year old guy goes to a 42 year old guy and asks him to infect him and you don't think that the 42 year old has any responsibility to bear?



    Why would you assume that the guy who is HIV+ is 42? LOL!

    You do realize that the majority of newly infected men are under 29 (about 34%). Every HIV+ person I know was infected before they were 29 years old, and was infected BY someone under 29 years old.

    Yes, if you are HIV+ and you know it, you should act responsibly and let your partner know.

    However, if you choose to engage in risky behavior, YOU are ultimately responsible for your actions.

    It's a two way street...be responsible.



    I could have just as easily plick 38 or 58 or 68. it was more to show a hopeful development of differences in maturity levels?