The Bible says this. Why? I don't know!

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    Jul 16, 2009 11:24 PM GMT
    Reading books written by authors such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, as well as some of the posts here at RJ, I get the impression that fundamental Christians like myself must have the answers for every question thrown at us. Scientists readily admit that they have gaps in their knowledge, but further research will eventually fill these gaps. But we are perceived as knowing absolutely everything, and are ready to draw our swords to anyone who dare disagree. THAT IS JUST NOT TRUE!
    I certainly have gaps in my knowledge of the Bible. But these gaps does not pose a threat to my faith. Like with science, these gaps will eventually be filled in. There may be some that would remain unfilled right up to my death.
    Gaps I did have included,
    Who was Cain's wife?
    The answer to that is that Cain married his own sister. In Genesis 5:4 - When Adam lived 180 years he begat a son...and he named him Seth. After he begat Seth he lived another 800 years and had other sons and daughters. So Seth was born 180 years after Creation. It would be ridiculous if Adam and Eve had no children within his first 180 years of his life, especially if God told them to be fruitful and multiply.
    But other gaps remain. Balaam's donkey. Numbers 22. Here the donkey spoke to the rider with a human language. Had YOU been the rider, you would have shit your pants. But Balaam did not. Instead, he took it on board as a common occurance. Why? I DON'T KNOW.
    Or the case of the day when the sun stood still. (Joshua 10). Did the earth stop rotating? I doubt it. There is no evidence in West Indian folklore of a prolonged night when the sun refused to appear at the expected time. Furthemore, the summit of Mt Cayambe in South America is moving at 1,038 mph due to the earth's rotation. The global catastrophe caused by the inertia would be magnitude, to say the least. So how did the sun stood still? I DON'T KNOW.
    Or the case of the shadow of the sundial moving backward. (2 Kings 20). This is related to the prolonged day. Again, I DON'T KNOW.
    Finally, in the New Testament, Matthew relates a prophecy to Jeremiah, when it was actually written by Zechariah. (Matthew 27:1-10). Was it a mistake? Was there another reason for this? I DON'T KNOW.
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jul 17, 2009 12:36 AM GMT
    Stop posting this crap. Gay Fundamental Christians spend their lives struggling to fit into a mold that's been made to fit only a small portion of the population. I think you should consider losing your religion. Offended? Good. Fundamental Christians offend me with their stupid dogma.

    Go ahead, RJ, delete the thread now. I didn't mean to disagree. Can't wait for the hate mail!
  • nv7_

    Posts: 1453

    Jul 17, 2009 12:38 AM GMT
    Who would send you hate mail dan? You're all hot...and stuff. icon_cool.gif
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    Jul 17, 2009 12:45 AM GMT
    NotThatOld saidReading books written by authors such as Richard Dawkins and Sam Harris, as well as some of the posts here at RJ, I get the impression that fundamental Christians like myself must have the answers for every question thrown at us.

    Finally, in the New Testament, Matthew relates a prophecy to Jeremiah, when it was actually written by Zechariah. (Matthew 27:1-10). Was it a mistake? Was there another reason for this? I DON'T KNOW.


    Don't you notice that if a christian doesn't have the answer it proves that his faith is crap and God doesn't existicon_exclaim.gificon_rolleyes.gif - (well to some people at least. )

    I remember a couple of posters on atheism topics high fiving each other smugly because one of them mentioned that they asked a christian something and that Christian didn't know it. Not that it would have even made a difference if they had received a perfectly good answer. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I think the Matthew issue: Is a combination of the following scriptures:
    Zec 11:12-13
    Jer 19:1-13 or perhaps
    Jer 18:2-12
    Jer 32-6-9

    Mattew gave the credit to the major prophet Zechariah
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    Jul 17, 2009 12:47 AM GMT
    Why would you doubt that the earth could have stopped rotating? Is this impossible for God to do?
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:04 AM GMT
    jprichva saidWhy don't we debate the esoteric differences between languages in middle-Earth?


    I'm game, but only if we can invite Elron the chief fairy or was he an elf, to take part in the discussion. he was hot and i have first dibs on him

  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jul 17, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    jprichva saidWhy don't we debate the esoteric differences between languages in middle-Earth?


    I'm game, but only if we can invite Elron the chief fairy or was he an elf, to take part in the discussion. he was hot and i have first dibs on him



    I get sloppy seconds!
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:06 AM GMT
    icon_eek.gif

    Science can answer those questions for you if they're keeping you up at night.

    I prefer more relevant mysteries, like how does Harry Potter's broom fly without smoking when Witchy-Poo's was so polluting?
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 17, 2009 1:07 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you saidWhy would you doubt that the earth could have stopped rotating? Is this impossible for God to do?


    Because this is what would happen...

    Earth is rotating at a speed of about 1100 miles per hour. If our planet suddenly stopped rotating, the atmosphere would still be in motion at that speed. The atmosphere would be moving so fast it would literally sweep the land masses clear of anything not anchored to bedrock, this would mean rocks, soil, trees, buildings, people and animals. All would be swept up into the atmosphere.

    If the Earth's rotation slowed down gradually over millions of years, and this is the most likely scenario, it would be a very different story. If the Earth slowed down to one rotation every year, called synchronous rotation, every area on Earth would be in either sunlight or darkness for one year. This would be similar to what the Moon goes through where for two weeks the front side of the Moon is illuminated by the Sun followed by the front side being in darkness for two weeks.

    But what if the Earth stopped rotating completely? In that case, one half the Earth would be in daylight for half the year while the other side would be in darkness. The second half of the year it would be reversed. Temperature variations would be far more extreme then they are now. The temperature gradient would affect the wind circulation also. Air would move from the equator to the poles rather then in wind systems parallel to the equator as they are now.

    Even stranger would be the change in the Sun's position in the sky. In the above scenario, Sun would just have a seasonal motion up and down the sky towards the south due to the orbit of the Earth and its axial tilt. You would see the elevation of the Sun increase or decrease in the sky just as we now see the elevation of the Sun change from a single point on the Earth due to the Earth's daily rotation.

    As an example, say we live at 30 degrees North latitude. In the Summer, at a longitude where the Sun was exactly overhead, it would slide gradually to the horizon as Fall approached, but since the Sun has moved 90 degrees in its orbit, it would now be due west. As Winter approached, you would now be located on the dark side of the Earth. You would have to move to a longitude 180 degrees around the Earth to see the Sun 1/2 way up the sky because in the Winter, the Sun is 50 degrees south of its summer location in the sky.

    There would be other effects of the Earth's rotation slowing also. The magnetic field of the Earth is generated by a dynamo effect that involves its rotation. If the Earth stopped rotating, the magnetic field would no longer be regenerated and it would decay away to some low, residual value due to the very small component which is 'fossilized' in its iron-rich rocks. There would be no more 'northern lights' and the Van Allen radiation belts would probably vanish, as would our protection from cosmic rays and other high-energy particles. Losing this protection would cause serious health issues.

    That's why.
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:07 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    Blackguy4you saidI'm game, but only if we can invite Elron the chief fairy or was he an elf, to take part in the discussion. he was hot and i have first dibs on him

    Sorry, his name wasn't Elron, it was Enron, and he's currently in jail for causing the rolling blackouts in California a few years ago due to illegal trading schemes.


    well invite him still - he can tell me how to defraud people while i'm defrocking him
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:23 AM GMT
    Religion cannot explain natural phenomenon. Religion is not substitute for science. Why even talk about it like that? It is completely absurd.

    If you can fill in the gaps in a sloppy narrative, more power to you. But finding your own explanation for astounding contradictions, giant gaps in the story, and the complete suspension of reality in the bible's stories has nothing to do with science.
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:26 AM GMT
    calibro said
    Blackguy4you saidWhy would you doubt that the earth could have stopped rotating? Is this impossible for God to do?


    Because this is what would happen...

    Earth is rotating at a speed of about 1100 miles per hour. If our planet suddenly stopped rotating, the atmosphere would still be in motion at that speed. The atmosphere would be moving so fast it would literally sweep the land masses clear of anything not anchored to bedrock, this would mean rocks, soil, trees, buildings, people and animals. All would be swept up into the atmosphere.

    If the Earth's rotation slowed down gradually over millions of years, and this is the most likely scenario, it would be a very different story. If the Earth slowed down to one rotation every year, called synchronous rotation, every area on Earth would be in either sunlight or darkness for one year. This would be similar to what the Moon goes through where for two weeks the front side of the Moon is illuminated by the Sun followed by the front side being in darkness for two weeks.

    But what if the Earth stopped rotating completely? In that case, one half the Earth would be in daylight for half the year while the other side would be in darkness. The second half of the year it would be reversed. Temperature variations would be far more extreme then they are now. The temperature gradient would affect the wind circulation also. Air would move from the equator to the poles rather then in wind systems parallel to the equator as they are now.

    Even stranger would be the change in the Sun's position in the sky. In the above scenario, Sun would just have a seasonal motion up and down the sky towards the south due to the orbit of the Earth and its axial tilt. You would see the elevation of the Sun increase or decrease in the sky just as we now see the elevation of the Sun change from a single point on the Earth due to the Earth's daily rotation.

    As an example, say we live at 30 degrees North latitude. In the Summer, at a longitude where the Sun was exactly overhead, it would slide gradually to the horizon as Fall approached, but since the Sun has moved 90 degrees in its orbit, it would now be due west. As Winter approached, you would now be located on the dark side of the Earth. You would have to move to a longitude 180 degrees around the Earth to see the Sun 1/2 way up the sky because in the Winter, the Sun is 50 degrees south of its summer location in the sky.

    There would be other effects of the Earth's rotation slowing also. The magnetic field of the Earth is generated by a dynamo effect that involves its rotation. If the Earth stopped rotating, the magnetic field would no longer be regenerated and it would decay away to some low, residual value due to the very small component which is 'fossilized' in its iron-rich rocks. There would be no more 'northern lights' and the Van Allen radiation belts would probably vanish, as would our protection from cosmic rays and other high-energy particles. Losing this protection would cause serious health issues.

    That's why.


    And once again- exactly why would this be something more than an all powerful God can do?
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 17, 2009 1:29 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    calibro said
    Blackguy4you saidWhy would you doubt that the earth could have stopped rotating? Is this impossible for God to do?


    Because this is what would happen...

    Earth is rotating at a speed of about 1100 miles per hour. If our planet suddenly stopped rotating, the atmosphere would still be in motion at that speed. The atmosphere would be moving so fast it would literally sweep the land masses clear of anything not anchored to bedrock, this would mean rocks, soil, trees, buildings, people and animals. All would be swept up into the atmosphere.

    If the Earth's rotation slowed down gradually over millions of years, and this is the most likely scenario, it would be a very different story. If the Earth slowed down to one rotation every year, called synchronous rotation, every area on Earth would be in either sunlight or darkness for one year. This would be similar to what the Moon goes through where for two weeks the front side of the Moon is illuminated by the Sun followed by the front side being in darkness for two weeks.

    But what if the Earth stopped rotating completely? In that case, one half the Earth would be in daylight for half the year while the other side would be in darkness. The second half of the year it would be reversed. Temperature variations would be far more extreme then they are now. The temperature gradient would affect the wind circulation also. Air would move from the equator to the poles rather then in wind systems parallel to the equator as they are now.

    Even stranger would be the change in the Sun's position in the sky. In the above scenario, Sun would just have a seasonal motion up and down the sky towards the south due to the orbit of the Earth and its axial tilt. You would see the elevation of the Sun increase or decrease in the sky just as we now see the elevation of the Sun change from a single point on the Earth due to the Earth's daily rotation.

    As an example, say we live at 30 degrees North latitude. In the Summer, at a longitude where the Sun was exactly overhead, it would slide gradually to the horizon as Fall approached, but since the Sun has moved 90 degrees in its orbit, it would now be due west. As Winter approached, you would now be located on the dark side of the Earth. You would have to move to a longitude 180 degrees around the Earth to see the Sun 1/2 way up the sky because in the Winter, the Sun is 50 degrees south of its summer location in the sky.

    There would be other effects of the Earth's rotation slowing also. The magnetic field of the Earth is generated by a dynamo effect that involves its rotation. If the Earth stopped rotating, the magnetic field would no longer be regenerated and it would decay away to some low, residual value due to the very small component which is 'fossilized' in its iron-rich rocks. There would be no more 'northern lights' and the Van Allen radiation belts would probably vanish, as would our protection from cosmic rays and other high-energy particles. Losing this protection would cause serious health issues.

    That's why.


    And once again- exactly why would this be something more than an all powerful God can do?


    I love how god can be a variable for anything that makes no sense or seems illogical just because he has the ability to do anything. In the words of homer simpson "can jesus heat up a burrito so hot that he himself could not eat it?"
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:30 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidReligion cannot explain natural phenomenon. Religion is not substitute for science. Why even talk about it like that? It is completely absurd.

    If you can fill in the gaps in a sloppy narrative, more power to you. But finding your own explanation for astounding contradictions, giant gaps in the story, and the complete suspension of reality in the bible's stories has nothing to do with science.


    Nor can science explain the metaphysical.

    We talk about it, because humans are naturally curious about the world around them. about the whichness of the why...
  • calibro

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    Jul 17, 2009 1:31 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    calibro said
    Blackguy4you saidWhy would you doubt that the earth could have stopped rotating? Is this impossible for God to do?




    And once again- exactly why would this be something more than an all powerful God can do?


    That an had any of that happened, I think recorded history would have made a note about some like the sun disappearing or half the earth being blanketed in darkness. Or did god somehow bend the law of physics to by have the entire universe move in such a way that the Earth could stop rotating and yet every natural process would not be affected?
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:39 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    MunchingZombie saidReligion cannot explain natural phenomenon. Religion is not substitute for science. Why even talk about it like that? It is completely absurd.

    If you can fill in the gaps in a sloppy narrative, more power to you. But finding your own explanation for astounding contradictions, giant gaps in the story, and the complete suspension of reality in the bible's stories has nothing to do with science.


    Nor can science explain the metaphysical.

    We talk about it, because humans are naturally curious about the world around them. about the whichness of the why...


    For one, I think it offers a very compelling explanation of the metaphysical.

    Second, an unanswered why is far more interesting than, for example, the Christian psycho drama of the afterlife and god.
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    Jul 17, 2009 1:41 AM GMT
    it says all that as a metaphor
  • jrs1

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    Jul 17, 2009 2:07 AM GMT
    NotThatOld saidThe Bible says this. Why? I don't know!


    ... because it was written by the religious hegemony of their time.
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    Jul 17, 2009 2:09 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Blackguy4you said
    MunchingZombie saidReligion cannot explain natural phenomenon. Religion is not substitute for science. Why even talk about it like that? It is completely absurd.

    If you can fill in the gaps in a sloppy narrative, more power to you. But finding your own explanation for astounding contradictions, giant gaps in the story, and the complete suspension of reality in the bible's stories has nothing to do with science.


    Nor can science explain the metaphysical.

    We talk about it, because humans are naturally curious about the world around them. about the whichness of the why...


    For one, I think it offers a very compelling explanation of the metaphysical.

    Second, an unanswered why is far more interesting than, for example, the Christian psycho drama of the afterlife and god.


    Oh really?

    Then what is science's compelling explanations for the following questions: And these are just from the top of my head

    Why are we (humans) here?
    What is our place in the universe?
    Why is the universe the way it is?
    Why is life so full of horros and evil?
    Why is there something instead of nothing?
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    Jul 17, 2009 2:18 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    Why are we (humans) here? Chaos
    What is our place in the universe? On earth right now. Elsewhere later maybe.
    Why is the universe the way it is? Chaos
    Why is life so full of horros and evil? Chaos
    Why is there something instead of nothing? Chaos


    I, personally, find that very compelling. I am my own man. I have a brief little time on this blue spec to carve out a life among all the chaos. I find that much more interesting than being the creations of a distant omniscient being with peculiar rules as to how I should live that are at odds with all of his creation. But if that fills you with meaning and purpose, great.

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    Jul 17, 2009 2:26 AM GMT
    lol...mythology...so adorable.
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    Jul 17, 2009 2:26 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidBut if that fills you with meaning and purpose, great.


    Amazing how the priests can claim it's the bible when it's really dick that fills them.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 17, 2009 2:27 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    MunchingZombie said
    Blackguy4you said
    MunchingZombie saidReligion cannot explain natural phenomenon. Religion is not substitute for science. Why even talk about it like that? It is completely absurd.

    If you can fill in the gaps in a sloppy narrative, more power to you. But finding your own explanation for astounding contradictions, giant gaps in the story, and the complete suspension of reality in the bible's stories has nothing to do with science.


    Nor can science explain the metaphysical.

    We talk about it, because humans are naturally curious about the world around them. about the whichness of the why...


    For one, I think it offers a very compelling explanation of the metaphysical.

    Second, an unanswered why is far more interesting than, for example, the Christian psycho drama of the afterlife and god.


    Oh really?

    Then what is science's compelling explanations for the following questions: And these are just from the top of my head

    Why are we (humans) here?
    What is our place in the universe?
    Why is the universe the way it is?
    Why is life so full of horros and evil?
    Why is there something instead of nothing?


    Actually, that's easy to answer.


    Why are we (humans) here?

    Because we randomly evolved to be here. There's no greater point to it. It's just a wonderful circumstance, but is not destined or predetermined.

    What is our place in the universe?

    To be in this point in time and space. We have no significant place in the universe, and we mean nothing in the grand scheme of things. We are simply holders of atoms that will be recycled within the universe.

    Why is the universe the way it is?

    You need to be more specific on this one...but I'm guessing you're alluding to structure. Because that's how physics and entropy works. The universe is shaped and guided by the physics of many different things, and that is what makes it the way it is.

    Why is life so full of horros and evil?
    Because there is no god and no sentient being to prevent bad things from happening. In a universe with no right and wrong, things happen, but I assure you your pain means nothing to the rest of the universe. Your existence doesn't matter. Beside, horror and evil are relative terms. You being killed seems horrible, but in the grand scheme of the universe, it won't shed a tear.

    Why is there something instead of nothing?

    Again, physics. Atoms have charges. Chemical reactions form. Things form from chaos. It's a lot easier for something to exist than for nothing.
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    Jul 17, 2009 2:28 AM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Blackguy4you said
    Why are we (humans) here? Chaos
    What is our place in the universe? On earth right now. Elsewhere later maybe.
    Why is the universe the way it is? Chaos
    Why is life so full of horros and evil? Chaos
    Why is there something instead of nothing? Chaos


    I, personally, find that very compelling. I am my own man. I have a brief little time on this blue spec to carve out a life among all the chaos. I find that much more interesting than being the creations of a distant omniscient being with peculiar rules as to how I should live that are at odds with all of his creation. But if that fills you with meaning and purpose, great.



    Sorry- that may be your opinion but I'm afraid that's all it is. Your opion to these questions are not backed up by any scientific proof nor I'm afraid are they even the opinions of the scientific community.

    Good try though icon_smile.gif
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    Jul 17, 2009 2:33 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you saidSorry- that may be your opinion but I'm afraid that's all it is. Your opion to these questions are not backed up by any scientific proof nor I'm afraid are they even the opinions of the scientific community.

    Good try though icon_smile.gif


    It is my opinion that the universe formed out of chaos? Where are all the scientists that think it has always existed as it is today? Is there scientific literature on why there is evil in the world (other than Phil Zimbardo, I don't think that is what we are looking for here)?

    More likely, you just don't have a response to what I wrote. And that is fine.