Trust in God or Humans?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 1:46 AM GMT
    When you are sick do you 1)pray to God to heal you, or 2) rely on human current medical understanding to heal you?

    If you are on plane having problems would you rather the pilot 1) bow his head, fold his arms, and pray to god or 2) rely on his own human training to best deal with the situation?

    If you are poor and hungry which do you think would provice you a better chance on being being feed 1) pray to God in hope he dropped manna out of the sky or, 2) go to a human charity?

    Your house is on fire and your family is caught inside 1) pray to God and hope he pisses the fire out and lifts your family out, or 2) call 911 and rely on other humans to put out the fire?

    Religous people love to trash science and relying on human understanding, but in reality is there any time when trusting in God makes more sense than relying on human beings?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 1:52 AM GMT
    phemt saidReligous people love to trash science and relying on human understanding, but in reality is there any time when trusting in God makes more sense than relying on human beings?

    Anytime some Christian fundamentalist has a close call of some kind, or gets over a bad illness, they thank the Lord for saving them. And if one of them dies, they say the Lord called them home. So of course they have proof that God does it all. The rest of us are just helpers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 5:27 AM GMT


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 5:33 AM GMT
    Why do you separate trusting in God from trusting in humans? This separation may be in service of making a hierarchical claim that there can be only one foundation of faith, however the whole process of making a hierarchical claim.... Hold up, my Buddhist butt is not gonna make this thread more complicated than it needs to be.

    :walks away:
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 5:40 AM GMT
    BradySF saidWhy do you separate trusting in God from trusting in humans? This separation may be in service of making a hierarchical claim that there can be only one foundation of faith, however the whole process of making a hierarchical claim.... Hold up, my Buddhist butt is not gonna make this thread more complicated than it needs to be.

    :walks away:


    I should turn and run, but I''m apparently not Zen enough to take your advice, Brady.

    OP, kind of a leading question, dontcha think? I'm not about to defend the religious right, but I am pretty sick of all of the religion bashing on RJ. Enough already. It's been debated to death. No one's minds were changed. Move on.
  • offshore

    Posts: 1294

    Jul 17, 2009 5:44 AM GMT
    I always found it amusing when car crash survivors thank god and not the engineers that designed the car to survive the crash.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 6:29 AM GMT



    OMMMMMMMMMMM...........walks away.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 6:37 AM GMT
    phemt said

    Religous people love to trash science and relying on human understanding, but in reality is there any time when trusting in God makes more sense than relying on human beings?


    Yes - to answer your last question - when the situation is pretty much hopeless like say - let's say you or your love ones got cancer or need a liver or heart transplant or something like the boyfriend you love got hit in a car accident, in a coma and could never wake up. Have you seen the Spanish movie "Talk To Her"? It talks a little about the human faith in talking and listening and understanding. All you can do is pray and hope for a miracle to happen. When things fall out of our control, most people have no where to turn to, they usually turn to their faith. I think it's healthy to have both a sense of strong faith and some logical sense of science, just don't be blinded by only one side or the other. icon_biggrin.gif
  • imperator

    Posts: 626

    Jul 17, 2009 6:53 AM GMT
    If there is a god, and even if it is "watching" us, I think it's absurd to treat a divine being like a vending machine. I ask for nothing of any beings is the sky icon_confused.gif If any are there, there's no reason to seriously believe that I'm anything to it/them, and if there aren't it just makes you look schizophrenic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 8:02 AM GMT
    God has given humans the ability to act with what little smarts we have for our benefit - well to some degree taking into account humans' limitations and frailties.

    Just as when a baby is learning to walk there is the parent letting go and letting the child fall so as to learn and grow from the experience, God does the same for us.

    You can't expect God to be on immediate call - if so a person would never learn to appreciate the assistance or answer to their prayers.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 8:16 AM GMT
    All God's creatures pray to him...

    funny pictures of cats with captions
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 8:36 AM GMT
    Um... *runs to catch up with Doug*
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 8:54 AM GMT
    I grew up Catholic. Now I am an Agnostic.

    I hardly ever relied on God--If I went on a plane, I thought of how skilled the pilots must be. I didn't think to pray to God to save me and therest on the plane.

    Actually, I do remember talking to God in my teenage years, but my faith in him was null. I still believed in humans more than a deity I cannot see, hear, or converse with.

    Oddly enough, if was very hard for me to come out of the closet as an agnostic. I tried going to other gay-affirming churches--I talked with a Baptist pastor (not southern baptist) and a UCC Reverand.

    Still... something felt weird. This past fall I learned more about Genetics and Evolution: The last nails in my religious coffin.

    I realized for years I had believd in God solely out of fear--fear that I may be wrong and thus bathe in the lake of fire for all eternity.

    "Fear is the path to the dark side."
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 9:08 AM GMT
    tease410 said



    First, how can we be sure this even happened?

    If it did happen:

    1. The professor should recieve disciplinary action for fail at his job--getting students to think is his job... not insulting other's beliefs and intellect.

    2. This story would neither prove or disprove God--it was a freak occurance that could happen´╗┐ to me, you, or the professor again next year.

    Furthermore, the produer of this video seems to have a fundamentalist point of view of Christianity--which is their right. But they must realize many Christians may disagree with them about specific theological issues.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 17, 2009 10:09 AM GMT
    The OP on this thread is on a little hate campaign. It all started a few weeks ago, when he sent me some hate mail. I had never communicated with him before.

    Ever since then, he is stuck in every religion thread.

    Being Catholic (or of any Faith for that matter) on RJ, and being open about it, is like being openly gay to a group of homophobes. I have had an Irish guy on here tell me that I am the reason for all the problems he has in his life, in an emotional outburst in the forums. Ireland is a small place, and when you go out at night, it is enough to worry about the homophobes, than to have to worry about running into some nut from the Internet. I have giving way to much info on this site. It is very hard to criticize those on the site with no photos or face photos. They are probably just very smart people.

    I wonder how many Christians on here got phemt's campaign email?

    Mike
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 10:41 AM GMT
    cjcartist1984 said
    tease410 said



    First, how can we be sure this even happened?

    If it did happen:

    1. The professor should recieve disciplinary action for fail at his job--getting students to think is his job... not insulting other's beliefs and intellect.

    2. This story would neither prove or disprove God--it was a freak occurance that could happen´╗┐ to me, you, or the professor again next year.

    Furthermore, the produer of this video seems to have a fundamentalist point of view of Christianity--which is their right. But they must realize many Christians may disagree with them about specific theological issues.


    ok first of all i never told anyone that this really happen


    and yes u can disagree all u want but at the end. it really doesn't matter.
    i will stand 4 what i believe in
    but then again this is just my opinion icon_biggrin.gif
    <3
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 11:00 AM GMT
    Love the believer, hate the belief.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Jul 17, 2009 12:40 PM GMT
    George Carlin always had a joke about the atheist's Hail Mary - "the kind you say when you're about to get run over by a truck."

    Since 9 out of 10 Americans believe in God, isn't all this a false choice?

    If you're that pilot, don't you try to safely land the plane while praying that God help you and your passengers survive?

    ...and since the majority of charities that minister to the poor are religious in background if not in name (think Habitat for Humanity), aren't you sort of unfairly denying the idea that God is working through his faithful?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 1:04 PM GMT
    The answers to the OP's questions are personal preferences.

    If praying to a god makes the flight more comfortable... good for you.

    If anaylizing the acquired skills of the pilot and thinking rationally about statisitics/chance makes the flight more comfortable... good for you.

    The way I see it--as long as you feel safe traveling in a plane... it doesn't matter what method you use.


    However, the line is crossed when people tell others how they should be thinking and/or that they are immoral for thinking and believeing in certain things.

    I believe Kentucky's state government signed somedocument stating what that state has to do to prevent terrorists attacks. In their plan of action, legislators wrote that citizens need to pray to God. That is very wrong in my eyes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 1:23 PM GMT
    phemt saidWhen you are sick do you 1)pray to God to heal you, or 2) rely on human current medical understanding to heal you?

    If you are on plane having problems would you rather the pilot 1) bow his head, fold his arms, and pray to god or 2) rely on his own human training to best deal with the situation?

    If you are poor and hungry which do you think would provice you a better chance on being being feed 1) pray to God in hope he dropped manna out of the sky or, 2) go to a human charity?

    Your house is on fire and your family is caught inside 1) pray to God and hope he pisses the fire out and lifts your family out, or 2) call 911 and rely on other humans to put out the fire?

    Religous people love to trash science and relying on human understanding, but in reality is there any time when trusting in God makes more sense than relying on human beings?


    I wonder what the people in the twin towers thought/did when those two planes struck that morning
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 1:59 PM GMT
    In my experience, when I put much trust in either.....


    I was always disappointed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 2:05 PM GMT
    Why not both?
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 17, 2009 2:17 PM GMT
    there are no athiests in foxholes and no laissez faire capitalists in a recession
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 2:55 PM GMT



    In God I trust - all others pay cash.


    -Doug
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 17, 2009 3:11 PM GMT
    you can only blame humans for their own plight or the plight that is placed on them by another. you don't have to belive in God, but while you don't... you sure seem to want to blame him for how fucked up some humans are? icon_eek.gif