"GETTYSBURG" The "Killer Angels" Monologue Can you take out "negro" and put in "gay"??

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 20, 2009 12:34 AM GMT
    Being the civil war fan and especially the STUNNING battle at Gettysburg
    at the beginning of July of 1863, I loved the movie "Gettysburg" when it came out in 1993. This dialogue, said to be true... a philosophical discussion between Joshua Chamberlain and his Sgt. Kilrain about negroes.
    I've often listened to this.. and I love this exchange.. what if you take out the discussion of negroes and insert "gay"..... I've often wondered.

    Part of this might be a little hard to follow. Especially on the part of Kilrain.
    Back at the time of the Civil War (and it seems so "middle ages").. people
    were judged on the basis of their family, their "place" in life ... it seems pretty weird now....

    And I soooo relate to Joshua Chamberlain, and some his views.



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    Jul 20, 2009 1:22 AM GMT
    HK,

    I love that movie, and also 'Gods and Generals'

    Been to several Civil War battlefields.

    Gettysburg is the best.

    So good, I went there twice.

    You can feel the history in that place.

    You are so right about society back then. The southern planters considered themselves to be aristocracy. Almost like the 'old country' that Kilrain reffered to.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 20, 2009 2:18 AM GMT
    I've already talked to PAMEDIC about coming to the battlefield next year
    during July and walking the area. It will be so fantastic.
    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 20, 2009 9:22 AM GMT
    You know you can do the same thing in X-men. Replace mutant with gay. There are a lot of parallels actually with the obvious mutants versus the incognito mutants.

    Fiction though. Different from Gettysberg.
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    Jul 20, 2009 10:47 AM GMT
    OMG I am such a Civil War buff too!

    I've been to Gettysburg three times since the age of 15. I have seen the movie well over a hundred times--I first saw it in 4th grade (1994) and when I got older I watched it every Friday night as a teenager. It's one of my all-time favorite movie. The books are even better: "Gods and Generals", "The Killer Angels", and "The Last Full Measure"

    <--nerd! lol

    I am so proud to be from the same state as Chamberlain--he was a four-term Governor too.
    I also love this sceen... about freedom. It can also be related to gays.



    Several years ago I went to Chamberlian's Grave and house.

    Joshua Chamberlain's Grave, Bowdoin, Maine
    6452_517101772337_59602211_30946590_7048

    6452_517101782317_59602211_30946592_7156

    Joshua Chamberlain's House, Bowdoin, Maine
    6452_517101777327_59602211_30946591_6504

    Quiz:
    Why is Chamberlain so famous compared to other commanders at Gettysburg? (trick question e-mail me if you think you knowicon_razz.gif )
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 20, 2009 12:28 PM GMT
    Well is sounds like someone really has done his homework. I'll have to consider the trick question.

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 20, 2009 12:40 PM GMT
    cjcartist1984 saidQuiz:
    Why is Chamberlain so famous compared to other commanders at Gettysburg? (trick question e-mail me if you think you knowicon_razz.gif )

    I don't know what YOUR answer is, but I'll give you my personal, in the forum. I've written papers on Chamberlain, on Gettysburg, and on Longstreet, some in conjunction with my attendance at the US Army's Command & General Staff College (C&GSC). I also taught history in high school & college.

    Chamberlain is the unlikely hero, the kind Americans love best. A college professor before the war, and later President of Bowdoin College after the War, as well as Governor of Maine, he probably had no business on a battlefield by the standards of the day. Even at Gettysburg he was still consulting an Amy field manual he kept in his pocket so he would know what to do next.

    And so he commits an unconventional act of great bravery at Little Round Top and saves the day, for which he later receives the Congressional Medal of Honor. And goes on to become a fearless and inspirational leader for the rest of the Civil War. So that he, along with Brevet Major General George Armstrong Custer, are selected by Grant to hold special ceremonial roles during Lee's surrender at Appomattox before all other Generals in the Union Army.

    I just like the idea that the guy you would least expect to excel becomes the hero above all others. Very American, very much in our traditions.
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    Jul 20, 2009 12:48 PM GMT
    No you can't that's not a part of GAY history period. icon_mad.gif
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    Jul 20, 2009 2:42 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    cjcartist1984 saidQuiz:
    Why is Chamberlain so famous compared to other commanders at Gettysburg? (trick question e-mail me if you think you knowicon_razz.gif )

    I don't know what YOUR answer is, but I'll give you my personal, in the forum. I've written papers on Chamberlain, on Gettysburg, and on Longstreet, some in conjunction with my attendance at the US Army's Command & General Staff ...

    Blah blah blah...

    *scratches balls*

    *Yawns*


    I just like the idea that the guy you would least expect to excel becomes the hero above all others. Very American, very much in our traditions.


    Are you done ? Good. icon_wink.gif j/k It's much simpler...

    Very good answer... and there are some truths to what you said--he may very well be famous because of what you said, but that is not the main reason.

    Why is he so famous? Because he survived the battle and the war when many other heroic commanders didn't. Moreover, Michael Shara included Chamberlain in his book "The Killer Angels" and Ted Turner in his movie "Gettysburg."

    Anyone ever hear of Col. William Colvill? I doubt it. He commander the 1st Minn. which ran to fill in a gap between two Union Corps (created by the stupidity of Major Gen Sickles, 3rd Corp). His regiment held back an entire Rebel brigade--sustaining 82% causalties... a record for the battle and the entire war.

    Why don't we hear about him? He wasn't in the movie or the book... that's why. In a historical fiction novel/movie, one cannot tell the stories of every hero. Also, people want happy endings--who wants to read a book where the main character gets blown to pieces in the last pages of a 400 pg book? (or in the last ten mins of a 4 hr movie?)

    Chamberlain: Great man--smart, brillant, empathetic, wise, and humble. But he is mostly famous becasue of two people: Michael Shara and Ted Turner.
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    Jul 20, 2009 3:11 PM GMT
    cjcartist1984 saidAre you done ? Good. icon_wink.gif j/k It's much simpler...

    And did someone hack your RJ account, to write that reply to deliberately make you look like an ass? They certainly succeeded.

    It's hardly a "trick answer" to say that someone is famous because they survived, when others did not. And what about those who didn't survive, and even went down to ignominious defeat? Chamberlain's fellow Union General, George Custer, certainly falls into that category, better remembered than Chamberlain for his miserable failure against the Plains Indians.

    You may love history, but you hardly appreciate or understand it. Chamberlain may be known a little better today because of modern authors. But he was revered in his own lifetime, as well, considered as one of the outstanding Union heroes. He received the Medal of Honor, after all, which most did not.

    No, his fame existed in his own lifetime, if you really knew your history. Authors like Michael Shara did not invent it, they only helped us to rediscover it.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 20, 2009 3:18 PM GMT
    Well I just appreciate Chamberlain and am glad even a thread on RJ can bring out such respect for the gentleman. Much of what was said above, I knew. I think I remember pics of him at the 50th anniverary of Gettysburg in 1913.... it could have been 1903 at the 40th. Its a great story.
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    Jul 20, 2009 3:27 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    cjcartist1984 saidAre you done ? Good. icon_wink.gif j/k It's much simpler...

    And did someone hack your RJ account, to write that reply to deliberately make you look like an ass? They certainly succeeded.

    It's hardly a "trick answer" to say that someone is famous because they survived, when others did not. And what about those who didn't survive, and even went down to ignominious defeat? Chamberlain's fellow Union General, George Custer, certainly falls into that category, better remembered than Chamberlain for his miserable failure against the Plains Indians.

    You may love history, but you hardly appreciate or understand it. Chamberlain may be known a little better today because of modern authors. But he was revered in his own lifetime, as well, considered as one of the outstanding Union heroes. He received the Medal of Honor, after all, which most did not.

    No, his fame existed in his own lifetime, if you really knew your history. Authors like Michael Shara did not invent it, they only helped us to rediscover it.


    Yikes... first I was not trying to down-play what you wrote.

    Second, I was asking a question pertaining to why many people know the name of a Union officer today... not just history buffs, but regular people like my father.

    "The Killer Angels" did bring his story back to life. Why is that a bad thing? You make it seem like it is... I never questioned Chamberlain's honor (for god's sake I went to his grave site) or reputation. I never questioned what he did or who he was. I was reiterating something I had heard from a bus tour guide at Gettysburg. I found that to be incredibling interesting.
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    Jul 20, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidWell I just appreciate Chamberlain and am glad even a thread on RJ can bring out such respect for the gentleman. Much of what was said above, I knew. I think I remember pics of him at the 50th anniverary of Gettysburg in 1913.... it could have been 1903 at the 40th. Its a great story.

    You are correct about the annual anniversaries. Chamberlain always attended them, though in poor health due to his war wounds. He was greatly admired and honored by his fellow Civil War vets on both sides, according to contemporary accounts.

    Indeed, after he died in 1914, I believe he's still considered the last Union vet who officially succumbed as a direct result of his wounds from that conflict. He looks great in most of his photos, but he was actually hurting a great deal. A brave man throughout his entire life.
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    Jul 20, 2009 3:39 PM GMT
    cjcartist1984 said"The Killer Angels" did bring his story back to life. Why is that a bad thing? You make it seem like it is... I never questioned Chamberlain's honor (for god's sake I went to his grave site) or reputation. I never questioned what he did or who he was. I was reiterating something I had heard from a bus tour guide at Gettysburg. I found that to be incredibling interesting.

    Thank you, I think that puts us back in harmony. I thought you questioned nothing else except for the historical significance of his accomplishment, as being a creation of modern authors. I see instead that we are basically in agreement. I'm glad.

    I haven't had the honor & pleasure of visiting his grave. I have viewed many Civil War sites. And I've had the experience of seeing both of General Custer's "graves," Chamberlain's contemporary: the headstone that marks where he fell and was initially buried, and his final resting place at the USMA at West Point, NY. I found it strangely spooky to see his rank carved as Lt. Colonel, which he actually held at the time of his death, not General, a rank I once held myself.
  • PaMedic

    Posts: 65

    Jul 22, 2009 3:46 AM GMT
    I have been in Gettysburg for 6 days now and theis is my 17 year of coming here for the conference and I still get the same feeling when I come here and see the battle fields and remember how the men died for our country. It is just such an great history lesson.

    I look forward to Chris coming here with me. It is a wonderful place to visit and we can make our on history icon_lol.gif