Jimmy Carter Leaves Church Over Treatment of Women

  • Thriller83

    Posts: 71

    Jul 21, 2009 12:09 AM GMT
    http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/07/20/jimmy-carter-leaves-church-over-treatment-of-women/

    After more than 60 years together, Jimmy Carter has announced himself at odds with the Southern Baptist Church -- and he's decided it's time they go their separate ways. Via Feministing, the former president called the decision "unavoidable" after church leaders prohibited women from being ordained and insisted women be "subservient to their husbands." Said Carter in an essay in The Age:

    At its most repugnant, the belief that women must be subjugated to the wishes of men excuses slavery, violence, forced prostitution, genital mutilation and national laws that omit rape as a crime. But it also costs many millions of girls and women control over their own bodies and lives, and continues to deny them fair access to education, health, employment and influence within their own communities.

    The truth is that male religious leaders have had -- and still have -- an option to interpret holy teachings either to exalt or subjugate women. They have, for their own selfish ends, overwhelmingly chosen the latter. Their continuing choice provides the foundation or justification for much of the pervasive persecution and abuse of women throughout the world.

    After watching everyone from philandering politicians to Iran's president taking a sudden look heavenwards when the roof starts to come down on them, it's refreshing to see Carter calling out the role of religion in the mistreatment of women.

    The question for Carter -- and for others who find themselves at odds with leadership -- is, when a group you're deeply involved in starts to move away from your own core beliefs, do you stay and try to change from within or, at some point, do you have to look for the exit? Carter did give the former a shot -- in recent years publicly criticizing and distancing himself from church leadership, while staying involved with his church. Now, he's seeing if absence might do what presence did not.
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    Jul 21, 2009 1:04 AM GMT
    Good for him. He's way too smart for them anyway. I'm surprised he didn't leave decades ago.
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    Jul 21, 2009 5:56 AM GMT
    Well I always considered him to be a very weak leader, so good on him. Even though I don't really agree with him.

    The priesthood is an organisation for men, and not women, and just because a women want to be a member of the club, doesn't mean she has the right to be there. I would never received the sacrament from a female priest, and nothing discriminate about that.

    Women were givern the right and roll of childbirth, and men were givern the responsibility, and rights of the priesthood, and are there to serve women too.

    So when men can give birth to a child, and it's yet to come to pass, then women can too hold the priesthood. But they want their cake and too be able to eat it, and thats just plan wrong, also considering they fight tooth and nail to keep men out of women's clubs, now we are talking discrimination.
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    Jul 21, 2009 6:19 AM GMT
    Did you know female circumcision, is enforced and carried out by the wise women of the village, and not men.
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    Jul 21, 2009 6:36 AM GMT
    Yes, Matey. Internalized heterosexism exists just as much as internalized homophobia.
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    Jul 21, 2009 6:39 AM GMT
    As for Jimmy Carter, good on him for taking a stance. Like Thriller83 said, taking a stance through absence or presence is still taking a stance, and I'm glad to hear of it.
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    Jul 21, 2009 7:08 AM GMT
    BradySF saidYes, Matey. Internalized heterosexism exists just as much as internalized homophobia.


    So "some" say.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Jul 21, 2009 7:34 AM GMT
    matey saidWell I always considered him to be a very weak leader, so good on him. Even though I don't really agree with him.

    The priesthood is an organisation for men, and not women, and just because a women want to be a member of the club, doesn't mean she has the right to be there. I would never received the sacrament from a female priest, and nothing discriminate about that.

    Women were givern the right and roll of childbirth, and men were givern the responsibility, and rights of the priesthood, and are there to serve women too.

    So when men can give birth to a child, and it's yet to come to pass, then women can too hold the priesthood. But they want their cake and too be able to eat it, and thats just plan wrong, also considering they fight tooth and nail to keep men out of women's clubs, now we are talking discrimination.


    Yeah well men got the "right" to pee standing up. This means women get the priesthood.

    What disgusting sophistry. What you just said is the exact same reasoning that has been used to placate women whenever they demanded equal rights and justify their subjugation. Oh, women got the "gift of childbirth" so men get the right to vote! Yeah, that's fair too. And i'm sure women everywhere are totally thrilled about the childbirthing process. Nice gift.
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    Jul 21, 2009 7:42 AM GMT
    Yay Jimmy! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jul 21, 2009 9:42 AM GMT
    Nice. icon_smile.gif

    Someone realizes the bigger picture. Come to think of it, I've always believed that homophobia has strong ties with chauvinism and patriarchal religions.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 21, 2009 9:53 AM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle saidThat speaks volume about the type of person that Jimmy Carter is. How many men make womens' rights and equality their concern?


    I do icon_confused.gif
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    Jul 21, 2009 9:58 AM GMT
    Delivis said
    matey saidWell I always considered him to be a very weak leader, so good on him. Even though I don't really agree with him.

    The priesthood is an organisation for men, and not women, and just because a women want to be a member of the club, doesn't mean she has the right to be there. I would never received the sacrament from a female priest, and nothing discriminate about that.

    Women were givern the right and roll of childbirth, and men were givern the responsibility, and rights of the priesthood, and are there to serve women too.

    So when men can give birth to a child, and it's yet to come to pass, then women can too hold the priesthood. But they want their cake and too be able to eat it, and thats just plan wrong, also considering they fight tooth and nail to keep men out of women's clubs, now we are talking discrimination.


    Yeah well men got the "right" to pee standing up. This means women get the priesthood.

    What disgusting sophistry. What you just said is the exact same reasoning that has been used to placate women whenever they demanded equal rights and justify their subjugation. Oh, women got the "gift of childbirth" so men get the right to vote! Yeah, that's fair too. And i'm sure women everywhere are totally thrilled about the child birthing process. Nice gift.


    In fact one was only refuring to the priesthood. It was not created for women, and just because women want in doesn't give them the right to do so.

    I did not mention voting you did. In fact I live in a country that just handed women the right to vote years before many other countries did, and the women of Oz did not have to fight for the right, it was handed to them, as was the same in New Zealand, and I am proud of that fact.

    But I stand by what I said, the Priesthood is not for women, and men have a right to men only organisations, as I'm sure you would protest: so do women have a right to women only clubs.

    But I was only talking about the priesthood, and I would never receive the sacrament from a women. But I have no issues with my head of State Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, being the head of the Church of England, as she is not a member of the priesthood. But she is the head of that faith.

  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 21, 2009 10:00 AM GMT
    matey saidWell I always considered him to be a very weak leader, so good on him. Even though I don't really agree with him.

    The priesthood is an organisation for men, and not women, and just because a women want to be a member of the club, doesn't mean she has the right to be there. I would never received the sacrament from a female priest, and nothing discriminate about that.

    Women were givern the right and roll of childbirth, and men were givern the responsibility, and rights of the priesthood, and are there to serve women too.

    So when men can give birth to a child, and it's yet to come to pass, then women can too hold the priesthood. But they want their cake and too be able to eat it, and thats just plan wrong, also considering they fight tooth and nail to keep men out of women's clubs, now we are talking discrimination.


    And men got a dick. So what should we let women have? Hmmmmmmmmmmm
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    Jul 21, 2009 10:03 AM GMT
    Have NEVER been a fan of Carter. Probably, aside from the Right Wing christian Nazi George W Bush, the worst president ever.
    But anyone, leaving any church, moves to the head of the line in my respect book. Now maybe he will see "the light" and give up in his moronic beliefs in god(s) and other such rubbish! icon_idea.gif

    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 21, 2009 10:10 AM GMT
    matey said
    Delivis said
    matey saidBut I have no issues with my head of State her majesty Queen Elizabeth II, being the head of the Church of England, as she is not a member of the priesthood. But she is the head of that faith.



    I do say Pattison, you are such a loyal servant. I do invite you to my palace for royal tea. You shall bow before me, and kiss my royal feet.

    Ooooooooooh, fairytales icon_rolleyes.gif
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 21, 2009 10:12 AM GMT
    Musclequest saidHave NEVER been a fan of Carter. Probably, aside from the Right Wing christian Nazi George W Bush, the worst president ever.
    But anyone, leaving any church, moves to the head of the line in my respect book. Now maybe he will see "the light" and give up in his moronic beliefs in god(s) and other such rubbish! icon_idea.gif

    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    Oooooooooooh, my guess is, he still believes in God. So I wouldn't start celebrating just yet.

    Cheers,
    Mike
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    Jul 21, 2009 10:18 AM GMT
    Delivis said
    matey saidWell I always considered him to be a very weak leader, so good on him. Even though I don't really agree with him.

    The priesthood is an organisation for men, and not women, and just because a women want to be a member of the club, doesn't mean she has the right to be there. I would never received the sacrament from a female priest, and nothing discriminate about that.

    Women were givern the right and roll of childbirth, and men were givern the responsibility, and rights of the priesthood, and are there to serve women too.

    So when men can give birth to a child, and it's yet to come to pass, then women can too hold the priesthood. But they want their cake and too be able to eat it, and thats just plan wrong, also considering they fight tooth and nail to keep men out of women's clubs, now we are talking discrimination.


    Yeah well men got the "right" to pee standing up. This means women get the priesthood.

    What disgusting sophistry. What you just said is the exact same reasoning that has been used to placate women whenever they demanded equal rights and justify their subjugation. Oh, women got the "gift of childbirth" so men get the right to vote! Yeah, that's fair too. And i'm sure women everywhere are totally thrilled about the childbirthing process. Nice gift.


    A feminazi is a women to whom the most important thing in life is seeing to it that as many abortions as possible are preformed. Their unspoken reasoning is quit simple. Abortion is the single greatest avenue for militant women to exercise their quest for power and advance their belief that men ain't necessary. They don't need men in order to be happy. They certainly don't want males to be able ex cerise any controle over them. Abortion is the ultimate symbol of women's emancipation from the power of and influence of men. With men being precluded from the ultimate decision making process regarding the future of life i the womb, they are reduced to their proper, inferior role. Nothing matters but me, says the feminazi. my concerns prevail over all else. The fetus doesn't matter it's an unviable tissue mass.

    Feminazis have adopted abortion as a kind of sacrament for their religion / politics of alienation and bitterness.
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    Jul 21, 2009 10:23 AM GMT
    Musclequest saidHave NEVER been a fan of Carter. Probably, aside from the Right Wing christian Nazi George W Bush, the worst president ever.
    But anyone, leaving any church, moves to the head of the line in my respect book. Now maybe he will see "the light" and give up in his moronic beliefs in god(s) and other such rubbish! icon_idea.gif

    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    Way to go Keith.
  • MikePhilPerez

    Posts: 4357

    Jul 21, 2009 10:29 AM GMT
    matey said
    Musclequest saidHave NEVER been a fan of Carter. Probably, aside from the Right Wing christian Nazi George W Bush, the worst president ever.
    But anyone, leaving any church, moves to the head of the line in my respect book. Now maybe he will see "the light" and give up in his moronic beliefs in god(s) and other such rubbish! icon_idea.gif

    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    Way to go Keith.


    icon_eek.gif Pattison, Keith just called you a moron. Or have you suddenly decided you don't believe in God anymore?

    Way to go Keith icon_rolleyes.gif
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 21, 2009 12:26 PM GMT
    matey saidWell I always considered him to be a very weak leader, so good on him. Even though I don't really agree with him.

    .


    He's always been one of my favorite presidents... dealing with national circumstances that were very difficult and an economic situation that was equally so. What made him such a strong presence was the fact he stood for something.. that is, human rights. The world knew it. The fact he would take this action says volumes that unlike many, he acts on the core values he believes. I wouldn't expect any less.
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    Jul 21, 2009 1:57 PM GMT
    Good for him. It's about time someone told them that their logic about women doesnt hold water. This is spoken from a former southern baptist upbringing myself .
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Jul 21, 2009 2:42 PM GMT
    matey saidDid you know female circumcision, is enforced and carried out by the wise women of the village, and not men.



    Umm... that's not true. Female circumcision ins prevalent throughout Africa and Asia, where there are no so called "villages."
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    Jul 21, 2009 10:21 PM GMT
    calibro said
    matey saidDid you know female circumcision, is enforced and carried out by the wise women of the village, and not men.



    Umm... that's not true. Female circumcision ins prevalent throughout Africa and Asia, where there are no so called "villages."


    But Africa and Asia are full of villages filled with huts or shanty towns. In fact I was being light hearted with the wise women of the village, a term feminist love to use.

    But my point was it's a procedure that is enforced and carried out by women.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Jul 21, 2009 10:43 PM GMT
    Misogyny, good God. I am currently working on a lengthy essay on the nature of masculinity and the effects of female sexual power on it. The prototypical male is completely obsessed with obtaining sex from women by controlling them (to the point of wishing to take women away from other men by any means available). He seeks to control women because he fears the power they have over him, so he removes any ability they might have to further dominate/emasculate him. Therefore women are to be denied the right to vote, work outside the home, appear attractive to anyone other than the designated man, or have opinions contradictory to the man.

    This is of course all a bit hyperbolic (word for the day!!!), but if one examines sexism and mysogyny at their most fundamental levels, this desire for and fear of women is behind all of it.

    Homophobia is closely related to misogyny, being that both are dependent on men maintaining the culturally accepted idea of what it means to be a man with male entitlement and privilege intact. The prototypical man (I use that term since the male of our species is not monolithic in motivation) is revolted by homosexuality because he cannot abide the thought of a man being treated the way he treats women...
  • Latenight30

    Posts: 1525

    Jul 21, 2009 10:48 PM GMT
    Similar but different. I 1/2 way attend a forward thinking open Methodist Church. Someone in their infinate wisdom and lack of busy work wants to propose that the church stop doing Straight Marriages if Gays can't get married.
    1. What church in their right mind is going to stop something that openly generates revenu. Thats a big duh! I'd marry people if I could make a buck off of it. And I don't mean that in any disrepect to the scantity of the union.
    2. The idea is nice for a political platform the change a law. But to basicly do reverse descrimination is just as wrong. If anything minoritys should band together to fight all Descrimination for all other minorities.
    Hey Proud of Jimmy, way to take a stand. I know politicians often turn their views around when it really doesn't matter, Former VP, Former NC Senetor ect. But he is a very vocal person even today so I hope it opens some eyes.
    See you at your Library Jimmy!
    (FYI Jimmy Carter is from GA and his Presidental library is walking distance from my home.)