Gay men who communicate like Neanderthals

  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jul 23, 2009 7:08 PM GMT
    I'm sick and tired of seeing phrases like "You need to man up" in reference to the confrontation of fears.

    As gay men, do you really think this is helping your cause? I just read someone's comment on another thread-- he basically compared fearfulness to the act of cutting off the poster's scrotum.

    Well, people, I'm assuming that this sort of language isn't confined to the blogs on RealJock. You people who say things like this are just conforming to the same sort of hetero-normative slander that keeps gay people divided from the rest of society.

    Stop and think about what you're saying. We need to show the ape-like straights who say things like this that gay people are not "lesser" human beings.

    The same proto-humanoid mouth-breathers who subjugate women do the same thing to gay people; when a gay man uses language like this he just reinforces the notion that gender is an indicator of courage, strength, and innate physical ability.

    Don't man up. Think a little. And then grow up.
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    Jul 23, 2009 9:15 PM GMT
    I've been told many times to... grow some balls icon_eek.gif
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    Jul 23, 2009 9:17 PM GMT
    I use the phrase "man up", when a guy should stop whining and complaining and stop playing the victim. Or as a confidence booster, let's say for someone trying to quit smoking. Or to remind a friend to be polite about something.

    I use the phrase to reinforce and support the good qualities in men that we are all capable of. Why should this good natured type of positive reinforcement be used only be straight men? After all, men are men. Gay or straight.

    I say "man up" to my gay and straight friends and they say it to me.

    What I hate is hearing the phrase used by gay men who think acting uneducated, rude and loud is being a man. Tats, face hair and a gym body, or calling yourself a bear can be real hot but don't automatically man you up. You know, the guys who seemingly intentionally can't conjugate a verb, practice that thug walk and talk (boring) and thinks manners are for sissies.
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    Jul 23, 2009 9:23 PM GMT
    It has nothing to do with gender. I think that it is implying stop acting like a "boi" (I spelled it like that since you think that we should talk like gay men).
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:29 PM GMT
    I'd like to know what is wrong with using "man up" I am a man after all..

    should I use something else?

    I think your becoming a whining little bitch...
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:31 PM GMT
    fuck dude... just man up...
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jul 23, 2009 11:38 PM GMT
    Seems like only 2 of you replied with anything of value. (If all else fails, reply with brute force and walk away. That's the point of a forum, right?)

    And lilTanker--

    I'm not whining. My suggestion: use a phrase that actually applies to the situation. As I said-- riding a coaster has nothing to do with being a man. I was riding coasters when I was ten. And women do too.

    Why is it that when people disagree here, they just attack the poster and walk away without thinking about it? I'm pointing out a legitimate problem.
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:41 PM GMT
    DUDE Your totally reinforcing the sterotype of bigoted straight men, A gay Queen whining B-YATCH........Just sayin, I don't feel that way, yes I do! guess what I just......MAN'D UP! Just kidding BRO!
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:43 PM GMT
    your taking things too seriously....joking around....
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:50 PM GMT
    Maybe a better phrase would be 'act your age'? Whenever I get the impulse to tell someone to grow some balls, man up, or whatnot, it's not out of a backwards masogynistic brute-go-ugg-and-kill-something-for-dinner way....it's because someone is acting like a twelve-year-old girl who isn't 12 years old or a girl.
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:53 PM GMT
    danisnotstr8 saidI'm not whining. My suggestion: use a phrase that actually applies to the situation. As I said-- riding a coaster has nothing to do with being a man. I was riding coasters when I was ten.


    the term "man up" is about putting aside your fears and getting on with it, to sit there in fear and never do something is stupid and quite frankly wimpy..

    I fail to see how using the term "man up" is some how bad, ape like strength? whats that? "man up" your scared but you can do what you fear anyway.

    would you like something more floral?

    Hows about.. your a beautiful flower just waiting to bloom.. don't fear the light, let your self blossom and grow, do what you want so much and open wide

    yeah umm.. felt like I was talking about a vagina then but there ya go..

    and you are being whiny, you've made numerous mentions to being "thick skinned" and now your here complaining about people not doing things the way you want them done.
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    Jul 23, 2009 11:59 PM GMT
    [url][/url]
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    Jul 24, 2009 12:01 AM GMT
    *sits on zDrew*
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Jul 24, 2009 12:02 AM GMT
    I love it when gay men stereotype others, it's like Lennox's "was I being racist?" topic.
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    Jul 24, 2009 12:04 AM GMT

    Dan, I totally agree with everything you said. Gays are men, but not society's notion of a man. Instead of displaying the kind of courage it takes to discover what being a gay man is, they rely on what they know of straight men, mainly archetypes and misconceptions of straight men to boot. It is very two faced and sad.
    My disgust is tempered by the fact that straight society surrounds us and permeates everything. However, in an exclusive environment like this I am sickened beyond boundaries by some of the responses to your very thoughtful op with some rather boring, cliché, and crude responses. All they did was prove you right.




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    Jul 24, 2009 12:11 AM GMT
    why do I constantly get this feeling from the gay community (in only so much as we are a community) that heterosexuals are bad?
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Jul 24, 2009 12:17 AM GMT
    lilTanker said
    danisnotstr8 saidI'm not whining. My suggestion: use a phrase that actually applies to the situation. As I said-- riding a coaster has nothing to do with being a man. I was riding coasters when I was ten.


    the term "man up" is about putting aside your fears and getting on with it, to sit there in fear and never do something is stupid and quite frankly wimpy..

    I fail to see how using the term "man up" is some how bad, ape like strength? whats that? "man up" your scared but you can do what you fear anyway.

    would you like something more floral?

    Hows about.. your a beautiful flower just waiting to bloom.. don't fear the light, let your self blossom and grow, do what you want so much and open wide

    yeah umm.. felt like I was talking about a vagina then but there ya go..

    and you are being whiny, you've made numerous mentions to being "thick skinned" and now your here complaining about people not doing things the way you want them done.


    LilTanker...

    My complaint is about both the term itself AND the people who go on using it without thinking about the implications of the language. Imagine how a 20-year old transsexual might feel when she heard this comment-- well before actually initiating his transition to femininity. I'm asking you to think about the deeper result of such phrases.

    You can say I'm being whiny. But I'm also defending a premise that is constantly addressed by the feminist movement-- a movement that embraces you and me as well as all women and straight men too-- and is being taught in university sexual politics courses across the world (of which i have taken three). The damage is psychological, not only to the individual, but also to societies in general. It merely reinforces difference rather than similarities.

    GuiltyGear-- thank you for your thoughtful reply.

    To the rest of you-- I'm not just thanking GuiltyGear because he agrees. I'm addressing his attempt to understand the issue.

    You'll notice in my original post that I have actually given this some thought.
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    Jul 24, 2009 12:24 AM GMT
    Gentlemen, being a "man" used to be my business. I awarded medals for heroism, and did a few things myself of which I'm not too ashamed. And over 25 years I learned a few things about heroism, and bravery, and manliness. I learned about real toughness versus the hollow veneer of toughness. Now let me share with you just some of the unexpected conclusions I reached:

    - some of the bravest soldiers in US uniform are women. WHAT???
    - I've met ordinary gay men who are braver than most soldiers I served with. HUH???
    - in a crisis, I'd rather be supported by most gay men than most straight men. NO!!!

    Don't underrate yourselves, and don't confuse macho myths with true temper. You are stronger than you know, better than you appreciate, if only because the straight world forces you to be so from an early age.

    Silly at times, perhaps frivolous too often, we still have inner strengths we don't realize or credit. Our definition of manliness is our own, and I'll hold it up against any other there is.

    And if we don't realize that, and buy into the slanderous stereotype of weakness the straights have created for us, then shame on us, as I think the OP means. Oh, BTW, I was raised as a gentleman, I am a gentleman, and an Officer, no Neanderthal. I will match myself against any straight man for true manliness any day, accomplishment for accomplishment, guts for guts. And if I don't acquit myself, he can take my balls as a trophy.
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    Jul 24, 2009 12:24 AM GMT
    Honestly, your post is so contradictory that I have trouble even deciphering the point. On the one hand, you assert that gay men are divided from the rest of society. You say this, right after you chide gay men for "conforming to hetero-normative (society)". So which is it?

    To me, it sounds like you just want to run your mouth about apparent "homophobia" over a stupid petty phrase that uses dated language to accurately and succinctly describe the course of action needing to be taken in situations where one party is acting like a scardey-cat. Oops, is that phrase offensive to cats? Should I not use it? How about "Don't get your panties in a twist."? "Liar liar pants on fire."? Are those offensive? Should I blacklist them as well?

    You say that I'm "conforming to hetero-normative slander", yet in reality, I just don't care. One of the great things about free speech is my ability to choose whichever words or turns of phrases I choose, and as such, when people are being bitches (Oh I'm sorry, that one is offensive to female dogs... it must imply that both gender AND species are related to superiority... I digress...) when people are being bitches, I reserve the right to tell them to man up and face their fears, rather than being a weak and scared loser.
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    Jul 24, 2009 12:31 AM GMT
    I suggest we ban all idioms and figures of speech from casual conversation, after all we wouldn't want to possibly offend hypothetical people who might be listening to our non-existent conversations.

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    Jul 24, 2009 12:31 AM GMT

    lilTanker saidwhy do I constantly get this feeling from the gay community (in only so much as we are a community) that heterosexuals are bad?


    We are a community and heteros are not bad, but antiqueted offshoots born in straight society are bad and have caused us pain in the past socially.
    Why is being anything beside masculine bad? The tone I feel in this thread is that being sensitive is bad or feminine/gay.Coming from gays that is awkward.

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    Jul 24, 2009 12:50 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    lilTanker saidwhy do I constantly get this feeling from the gay community (in only so much as we are a community) that heterosexuals are bad?


    We are a community and heteros are not bad, but antiqueted offshoots born in straight society are bad and have caused us pain in the past socially.
    Why is being anything beside masculine bad? The tone I feel in this thread is that being sensitive is bad or feminine/gay.Coming from gays that is awkward.




    For starters what if I was to say the only reason your pecs,quads triceps, biceps are ENORMOUS is the fact that you use your body to equate oneself to fitting in to a homophobic society and you hide behind your muscles to define yourself as a straight man to identify w/ those around who do not know your sexual preference? I'm sure that's not true but your ability to group men together as a whole is surprising. I tend to use the term BRO, CHIEF and BOSS more so than I'd like to admit I call most of my guy friends by their last names and at the end of the day while a small bit might be socializing in terms of nature and nurture in no terms is it me trying to forget the fact that I like to suck cock in the most blunt of terms. There are many type of gay men. Some go by the term QUEENS, some, JOCKS some FAGS whatever terms do we not all have a place in gay society? don't we all carry value and shouldn't we reinforce all is to let those who are wary know we come in all shapes, colors, religious backgrounds, value's and political stands? What the hell is going on here? come to think about it? get off the high horse!
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    Jul 24, 2009 12:53 AM GMT
    danisnotstr8 said
    My complaint is about both the term itself AND the people who go on using it without thinking about the implications of the language. Imagine how a 20-year old transsexual might feel when she heard this comment-- well before actually initiating his transition to femininity. I'm asking you to think about the deeper result of such phrases.

    You can say I'm being whiny. But I'm also defending a premise that is constantly addressed by the feminist movement-- a movement that embraces you and me as well as all women and straight men too-- and is being taught in university sexual politics courses across the world (of which i have taken three). The damage is psychological, not only to the individual, but also to societies in general. It merely reinforces difference rather than similarities.

    While I appreciate that a transgender would feel hearing the term "man up" to be painfil if it is thrown at them in an insulting manner, they are suffering enough trying to work out the enormous and complex problems in there head.

    But the same can be said about many words and terms to many people.. if you deliver the words in a way intended on being hurtful they will usually be hurtful.. Yes "Man up" does bring up the idea that a man is "strong and fearless" but I see no problem with that and I don't see it as hurtful for someone to draw on that strength which, I think is in all of us and not just "gay people"

    (this is mostly for GG)
    I don't care if I'm not "societies" version of what they think a man is, the people around me think of me as a man, I get questions with the whole "your a good guy Ben, what do you think of this?" and my entire family and friends think I'm a great role model for one of my nephews who doesn't have a good father about, when you ask them why, it's because I'm apparently very strong, loving and protective.. My mates, they don't care what society thinks in there head I'm just as much a man as they are and there is never questions of that.

    Quit caring what society thinks.. you fight them.. but never take there ideas home!

    Care only what those who love you think, they will always love you!
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    Jul 24, 2009 1:14 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    lilTanker saidwhy do I constantly get this feeling from the gay community (in only so much as we are a community) that heterosexuals are bad?


    We are a community and heteros are not bad, but antiqueted offshoots born in straight society are bad and have caused us pain in the past socially.
    Why is being anything beside masculine bad? The tone I feel in this thread is that being sensitive is bad or feminine/gay.Coming from gays that is awkward.


    I did write something more elaborate to this. but I decided not to post it. so, here are two points

    Being gay, being feminine, being masculine, being what ever, they are only good and bad as to how someone embraces them and rejects others because of them. they are not bad in and of them selfs, from what I have seen, when they are good they are just bloody marvelous!

    now a small story

    couple of weeks ago I was in the city of Sydney, I spotted two men holding hands, I followed them casually (yeah alright I stalked there arses) for about 15 minutes, it was busy, lots of people, weekend, as I watched this couple, I watched the people around them, of the people who spotted this couple holding hands, most ignored it, some smiled at it, gay people where instantly spotted by there look of fear that washed there face and the tiny handful of people who got a look of repugnance.

    Thank god for sunglasses because I cried.

    Society is changing GG, it's not like it used to be even 10 years ago and HELL I remember 10 years ago when I was getting chased down by straight guys who tried to beat the hell out of me, unfortunately, I don't think we are changing yet.
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    Jul 24, 2009 1:21 AM GMT
    Jeez guys. Woman up! Grow some boobs.