I grew up watching this stuff......and didnt see it.-

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    Jul 25, 2009 5:48 PM GMT
    UNTIL NOW....im confused..where the creative agendas of the Disney channel trying to assimilate to the young viewers some knowledge of inferiority in their programs????? say it aint so.... the Jim Crow thing really shocked me...and when the men were working....on the railroad.icon_eek.gif

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    Jul 25, 2009 6:11 PM GMT
    Without a doubt we can see the "problems" as presented regarding racism and stereotyping. But, we need to be aware that we can not and should not rewrite history, regardless of how repugnant such history may be in our current context. Imaging what we are producing currently and how "PC conscious" we are in our current social context, and how it will be viewed in the future...say 50 or 75 years when social norms will have changed. The best thing to do with such "shock" is to learn from the example available and try to make sure it is not repeated. History is always a teacher for those smart enough to read, understand and apply the lesson..... Thanks for the powerful cartoon images. icon_redface.gif
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    Jul 25, 2009 10:19 PM GMT
    How old are these clips? Aren't most of them from the 50s and 60s?

    To me, they show an accurate reflection of the times in which they were created. It's a little difficult to predict the future or go back in time and recreate movies. I'm sure you can make similar video snippets of any movie during those years - not just Disney cartoons.
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    Jul 25, 2009 10:57 PM GMT


    Let's begin w/ all of those clips are not frm Disney. The parallel is the vision of the cartoon in general and the vision of the fantasy of Disney who obviously had some low career point's in their vaults as well. In that time society was at the very beginning of the civil rts movement. Black face was common practice on variety shows etc. I don't think that Walt Disney or at least hope that someone who created vision for children purposely had a undertone of racism in his cartoon. I do feel he was a man of his time and his wrk might be a reflection of what he saw and the images that surrounded him. In some relation this relates to Dan's thread Gay men who act like neanderthals.( in the fact that people say and do harm w/out realizing what contribution they have made) Thank god we have grown somewhat as a society but video's like this need to be left in the vault or perhaps in a college course that dissects the socialism and racist behaviors of human society CUZ it just contributes nothing at this point and time!
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    Jul 26, 2009 1:36 AM GMT
    Oh yeah, Disney has a lot of stuff like that in it's earlier work. I've been reading a book that is about American history that the textbooks don't and won't tell you. It's a very shocking read that makes me just shake my head the entire time I read it. It basically covers the horrible man we know as Christopher Columbus and goes from there. I'm at the part about why people are poor and middle class.

    The railroad part (it's from Dumbo) is about how whites back then wanted everyone to believe that the slaves liked being slaves. That's why the lyrics from the song are the way they are. Of course the whites were wrong. They were (and still are) wrong about many things.

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    Jul 26, 2009 1:59 AM GMT
    At the end of the day it was the 50's and 60's ... and even then Disney didn't actually write most of those stories it adopted the stories and characters form literature and stories that were in themselves even older


    It was appropriate in the time and context they were written... I mean stuff like Enid Blighton or Mark Twain is undeniably racist

    I bet in 50 years time they'll be looking back and recoiling at the racism and sexism Harry potter books given the erver increasing PC wolrd


    in fact they already do and that film was released a month ago

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Harry_Potter

    Not to mention my 11 year old sister is watching south park when the parental units are at work icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 26, 2009 2:20 AM GMT
    BetterThanOne saidThe railroad part (it's from Dumbo) is about how whites back then wanted everyone to believe that the slaves liked being slaves.

    It's not a railroad, they're raising the circus tent. And they call themselves "roustabouts" which is a name for circus workers, and a more general term for any unskilled day laborers, such as on docks, in oil fields, and so forth. I'm not sure they're all Blacks, but it's true of the period that many such men were unschooled, and is an accurate depiction of their lifestyle, regardless of their color.

    Disney was reflecting the standards of the day. And BTW, I don't believe those stand-alone film clips in the OP video were made by Disney, only the animations.

    Such things are of course unacceptable today, and an embarrassment to see them now. One of my favorite old movies, Holiday Inn, which introduced the song White Christmas, has a terrible scene with Bing Crosby doing a number in black face. I cringe to see it, and wonder what they were thinking, even in 1942, spoiling an otherwise entertaining movie for me.

    I'd like to read that Lies book, but I'm always skeptical about revisionist claims. Christopher Columbus, for instance, was indeed a very flawed man, but I'd like to hear their version. Part of our myth is that he was fighting the ignorance that the world was flat. Not at all.

    The real scholarly objections he faced were that his calculations of the Earth's circumference were at least 3000 miles too small, making sailing West to reach the Indies an impossibly long voyage for the time, double what he predicted. The only reason he did run into something was because no one in Europe knew the American continents existed between them and the East, except for some vague and unreliable Viking legends that few alive knew. And even then Columbus thought he had reached Asia.

    Columbus also later failed as a colonial governor, either because he was indeed an incompetent administrator, or else the victim of backstabbing rivals and slanderers. It's hard today to prove which was true. I'd be curious to see what that book says.
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    Jul 26, 2009 2:39 AM GMT
    I knew it wasn't a railroad I was just using the OP's description of it. The live action footage is there to give insight on what the animation is being portrayed.
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    Jul 26, 2009 4:29 AM GMT
    I have a small collection of boys books from the 30's and 40's, passed down through the family. Sometimes the frank racism in them is shocking, but it's really just part of the background context. (Well... I can remember at least one where it's part of the central plot, but still it was the times.) Around that time, our town lost about a quarter of its population due to the interment of the Nisei.

    A race-neutral society is really something new. It's something that we're creating now.

  • Jul 26, 2009 4:33 AM GMT
    There's plenty of racism in Disney cartoons, but a few of these examples are a stretch. Shan-Yu in Mulan didn't strike me as stereotypical, nor does the portrayal match the live-action clip His features are a bit exaggerated, but that holds for cartoon villains in general. The characters are all Asians, so it's natural that the villain follows suit. And, in a twist on the stereotypical norm, he's one of the few characters voiced by a non-Asian.

    King Louie was voiced by Louis Prima, who may have been of Sicilian descent, but was born and raised in New Orleans. Phil Harris (Baloo) was a white southerner, of course. Both were bandleaders and singers; both were steeped in the culture of jazz & swing. They didn't put on a voice for the film, that's how they talked and sang and, to an extent, danced. The Jungle Book doesn't portray its primates as black, it portrays them as hipsters and jazz musicians.

    And for crying out loud, the stereotypes embodied in Panchito in The Three Caballeros aren't about Latinos in general. José Carioca is right next to him as a rather mild-mannered counterexample.
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    Jul 26, 2009 4:51 AM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle saidWow, that was pretty messed up. It's no wonder why racial stereotyping has been perpetuated for so long. We're influenced from such a young age by cartoons!

    The Brazilian clip with no Africans is actually a bit typical of Latin America. There is a very awful social structure in Brazil where whites only hang out with whites and depending on the color of your skin you basically belong to a certain class of people and you don't step outside of that group.

    I've seen this on talk shows and once a buddy of mine was in Mexico and went to a nightclub and was refused entry because he wasn't white. He's Colombian and an attractive fellow but has black hair and deep brown eyes. I was a bit shocked.

    Ever notice how the majority of those really bad actors that you see in Mexican soap operas are of Caucasian decent? Well, in certain areas of Mexico there are quite a few white people and they are held in high esteem simply for the color of their skin. They're wealthier and live a better life.

    It's really too bad.









    icon_neutral.gif Carefull with your generalizations my dear... They seem to be humongous..icon_wink.gif
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    Jul 26, 2009 5:20 AM GMT
    I’m not surprised, stereotypes has been around a long time. That's how people identify people. It will never end.
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    Jul 26, 2009 7:04 AM GMT
    CENSORSHIP is CENSORSHIP.... Once you feel compelled to do it where do you stop it... Trust me it will end up biting you in the butt.
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    Jul 26, 2009 7:19 AM GMT
    Seriously I think whoever made that clip was really looking for something inflammatory in those videos because you can connect the dots anyway you like to make it suit your views.
    Oh, and sadly, Disney didn't make the stereotypes so many people are bitching about. People did. Stereotypes exist for a reason.
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    Jul 26, 2009 12:00 PM GMT
    Holy fucking shit. LOL. I saw those Dumbo scenes with the crows and the workers pitching up the tent and I never even realized what the words were about. Didn't connect it to anything racial whatsoever. And I liked the tunes.

    I first began to learn about racial issues in high school. I guess that's because I grew up in a more or less homogeneous country.

    A lot of the Disney classics were from a time when the Japanese were evil, and Blacks weren't even allowed to vote. They were probably only reflecting the times.
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    Jul 26, 2009 1:08 PM GMT
    Sedative
    A lot of the Disney classics were from a time when the Japanese were evil, and Blacks weren't even allowed to vote. They were probably only reflecting the times.


    Blacks were given the right to vote under the 15th Amendment in 1870, a good 60 years before animated motion pictures were being made.
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    Jul 26, 2009 1:13 PM GMT


    Hey tereseus1, that vid was a bit like an intended sucker-punch that missed. I'm not sure what the originator of it was up to but it stinks. Cartoons are caricatures and anyone that thinks they're meant as an accurate representation of anything is a little off.

    ...So, what colour was Mowgli and his people? His girlfriend? White? Er, don't think so...

    The person who made that youtube vid is trying to sell you something - don't buy.

    As for the movie clips - they are a sign of the times - rewriting history is dangerous. So is editing it. It's how we see how far we've come.

    The Asian thing made me laugh, because I keep thinking that if Disney had been Chinese, lampooning his own people, then according to PC standards today it would have been fine.


    -Doug

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    Jul 26, 2009 1:22 PM GMT
    I've always known that disney has portrayed some rather prejudice views in their films since I was a kid. I don't blame them though, I blame the world that they cater to.

    I try not to ever blame entertainment in a sense of they cannot exist, cannot become powerful, without the people who help them make their money. So I try to blame disney less, and even the rest of the cartoons that were on tv at the time less, and blame the every day citizens more who it appealed and who made it so famous.

    So not so much disney, but the time that disney was operating in. You'd see today that disney has takled some several ethnic characters - usually transforming their characters into animals oddly so it doesn't matter what race they are- but the mere fact that they are taking these steps does show that times are changing.

    I don't think that I will make disney a mandatory aspect my child's childhood not because of the more prejudice aspects of earlier films, but because of how incredibly violent they are.

    They teach children that through fighting you can solve anything and that if someone standing in your way simply dies, then hey everyone lives happily ever after.

    Ursala - stabbed in the heart with a ship black blood splattering everywhere.

    Scar - eaten to death by his comrades

    The Han - Blown up by fire works

    I think none of these films really shows what it means to solve a problem.
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    Jul 26, 2009 1:34 PM GMT
    urbanguy911 saidSedative
    A lot of the Disney classics were from a time when the Japanese were evil, and Blacks weren't even allowed to vote. They were probably only reflecting the times.


    Blacks were given the right to vote under the 15th Amendment in 1870, a good 60 years before animated motion pictures were being made.


    Oh. I never knew that. But yeah, not really. They might as well didn't, because of the harassment and deliberate voting qualification requirements that still excluded them. That was part of what the Selma-Montgomery march was about.

    I would argue that Blacks actually only received the right to vote because of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and not because of the sham that was the Fifteenth Amendment.
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    Jul 26, 2009 7:17 PM GMT
    muchmorethanmuscle said
    dMostWanted said
    muchmorethanmuscle saidWow, that was pretty messed up. It's no wonder why racial stereotyping has been perpetuated for so long. We're influenced from such a young age by cartoons!

    The Brazilian clip with no Africans is actually a bit typical of Latin America. There is a very awful social structure in Brazil where whites only hang out with whites and depending on the color of your skin you basically belong to a certain class of people and you don't step outside of that group.

    I've seen this on talk shows and once a buddy of mine was in Mexico and went to a nightclub and was refused entry because he wasn't white. He's Colombian and an attractive fellow but has black hair and deep brown eyes. I was a bit shocked.
    icon_neutral.gif Carefull with your generalizations my dear... They seem to be humongous..icon_wink.gif


    Hey I'm not trying to be rude but it does exist and it's unfortunate. Brazilians that look more European put themselves at the top of the chain and the darker a person is the lower the lower their status.

    If you don't believe me simply google racism in Mexico, racism in Brazil, racism in Latin America and you'll find a multitude of articles to read about it.





    There's racism in every country dear, I wonder on wich top of the chain are you refering to, the rich people? Brazil has a bigger % of poverty than the US, those white elitist that you mention are not more than a small minority, less than 5%, so they don't represent the mayority or a big part of the Brazilian social structrure. And btw the most known, influential, and powerfull brazilians are actually black, not white. Again, racism is everywhere it's all about how those groups make influence on each country, so they have to be analyzed individually, not as a whole...
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    Jul 26, 2009 7:59 PM GMT
    Sedative saidI would argue that Blacks actually only received the right to vote because of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and not because of the sham that was the Fifteenth Amendment.

    Following the post-Civil War Reconstruction Period, White Southerners effectively blocked Blacks from voting. There was both outright intimidation at the polls, plus devices such as poll taxes and literacy tests, designed so that almost no Blacks could meet the criteria.

    The result being that while some Blacks did vote beginning after 1870, mostly in non-Southern states, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was required to make the Fifteenth Amendment a reality for Black Americans everywhere.