GAY MEN: "GROUP SHEEP MENTALITY"

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Nov 30, 2007 4:39 PM GMT
    Social question: How many of you consider yourself a member of a gay social group.. a "friendship group". One that is kind of "loosely associated"?

    What I mean is not a "formal group", but it can be just a group of friends that do things together.

    My question is.. if so, does this "group" take on characteristics of inclusion or exclusion, cliquish, etc. and is there a "sheep" mentality with those that participate?

    I have had some conversation about this recently with a couple of friends and have heard the comment that the
    "Wichita gay community" is odd, more so than in other cities, certainly those that are much larger.
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    Nov 30, 2007 6:10 PM GMT
    I wish I had a tighter circle of friends, but it's all oneseis, twosies, maybe threesies, and folks of all types. No clique here, but it has its benefit of being efficient.
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    Nov 30, 2007 6:25 PM GMT
    When I lived in Los Angeles, I found the gay community to be quite clique-ish. That's been my experience in other big cities too, namely NYC and DC. While I certainly met nice guys and made good friends, I found the "community" to be a bit of a drama minefield.

    I now live in the mountains and have only one gay friend. The rest are straight. It's been most refreshing not dealing with the drama and attitude one finds among a gaggle of urban gay men. I think a lot of gay men are stuck in high school - emotionally speaking - and that's very much reflected in the way they interact with one another.

    So, I would have to say that, on the whole, the gay community is very clique-ish and elitist, but one certainly finds quality people in every community. There's just more drama and attitude to sift through with gay men.
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    Nov 30, 2007 7:36 PM GMT
    I have gay friends and acquaintances but I would not say any of us are part of a distinct group. Some gays I know are annoying as hell and others are nice so I choose friendship based on personality not on sexuality.
  • DrStorm

    Posts: 185

    Nov 30, 2007 7:41 PM GMT
    and...the straight world is absolutely no different....ever been to a model casting? Pretty straight men who think they are god's gift to women are worse than gay men who think they are god's gift to men....absolutely and irretrievably, infinitely worse. icon_evil.gif

    People are people...

    PEACE

    daWeatherMan
  • DiverScience

    Posts: 1426

    Nov 30, 2007 7:53 PM GMT
    I haven't ever been a member of a group like that.
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    Nov 30, 2007 8:00 PM GMT
    I don't understand the question. icon_redface.gif
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    Nov 30, 2007 8:02 PM GMT
    DrStorm brings up an interesting point. I personally believe that gay men are more prone to drama, clique-ish behavior, etc. than straight guys. But, at least in urban areas, I think this is changing a bit. We're living in a very narcissistic and selfish culture and I think our behavior (as human beings) is changing as a result.

    I don't encounter straight men acting clique-ish, rude, dramatic, etc. where I live, but those same guys have no interest in a more urban value system. Anytime the superficial is emphasized (as gay men tend to do with reckless abandon), we should expect snobby, clique-ish behavior.
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    Nov 30, 2007 8:11 PM GMT
    Do I belong to a loosly associated group of gay friends?

    Yes, I suppose so.

    Are we cliquish?

    No, I don't think so. We are pretty open and fluid with regard to membership.

    Have I ever been part of a clique?

    Yeah, I guess I have, particularly as a jock in HS and College. However, those were not 'gay' in any regard, and I was still... sexually immature and not Out.

    I think that the world revolves around small loosly linked social groups, some more or less exclusive.

    If you want a better answer or more insight, I think you will have to be more specific with regard to your information and questions.

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Nov 30, 2007 8:24 PM GMT
    I think "HighSierraHiker" really hit the nail.....

    What I'm asking is... do many of you have friendships in a "loosely associated group".. and the term "group" may throw some of you, but what I'm asking is do you have a few friends, maybe quite a number that seem to do things together, that kind of form an identity together that may "include" or "exclude" others, thus becoming "cliquish" or "elitist".

    What I'm hearing is it goes on all over and isn't confined to just the gay scene at all...
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    Nov 30, 2007 8:34 PM GMT
    I have a group of friends who are very into the outdoors. Not all of us take part in the same activities, but there's always overlap. These activities and the fact that we all enjoy them certainly contribute, in a limited way, to a group "identity." However, we're always happy to include anyone new who wants to join us.

    I will say this, however. The women definitely tend to be more clique-ish than the men. The guys are always happy to welcome anyone new - male or female - whereas the girls aren't always as welcoming of a new girl (no problem with a new guy). I think groups of gay men behave in a very similar fashion to groups of women, only gay men tend to amplify certain female characteristics in an almost absurd manner.
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    Dec 01, 2007 12:17 AM GMT
    "What I'm asking is... do many of you have friendships in a "loosely associated group".. and the term "group" may throw some of you, but what I'm asking is do you have a few friends, maybe quite a number that seem to do things together, that kind of form an identity together that may "include" or "exclude" others, thus becoming "cliquish" or "elitist"."

    No.

    The only people who worry about "cliques" in my experience are people who want to be part of them.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 01, 2007 1:08 AM GMT
    Interesting idea OW. I was asking a general question.
    I personally don't "worry" about a clique one way or another. It was a topic of conversation only.
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    Dec 01, 2007 1:15 AM GMT
    I think that cliques are more defined by the people who observe them than the people in them. Most of the time they are just guys with common interest who hang out.
    Although, I speak to soon, I have founded several cliques in my day such as just guys with glasses, just guys with dark skin, just guys that are hung.....lol, I really miss that last one. But really, they were hardly exclusive. LOL, especially in the gay world it always happens when you start a clique one of the members date outside of it and then wants the 'outsider' thay are banging to hang with the clique, which blows the whole thing open.
    Maybe, if you want, you could make sport out of cracking cliques. I've done it a couple times, just go along at first and then BAM! let your individualism show. The cliquers will be glad you did. I'm sure they get tired of following all the time.
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    Dec 01, 2007 4:24 AM GMT
    Speaking as a person that has been part of a gay clique and is now far, far away from that environment, I've noticed that the common themes within these groups are insecurity and the fear of solitude. Isn't it better to be alone surrounded by a bunch of people or to be alone all by yourself? I was in absolute hell trying to conform and fit in because I have such a strong sense of individuality and personality. I think cliques have more of a stronghold on younger generations because they are still trying to find themselves. It's not just gay people that have exclusive groups, but let me tell ya, there is a whole hierarchy/caste system of homosexuals where I live.
  • LoganITGuy

    Posts: 31

    Dec 01, 2007 5:39 AM GMT
    I had a great group of friends back in Columbus. We'd go out drinking together, house parties, road trips...everything. I never thought we were a 'clique.' Then one day chatting with a random person online he said, "oh, you're one of the shirtless boys! i see you & your friends out at axis dancing every saturday" I guess I belonged in a clique & never knew it.

    I view the word clique as exclusionary & negative. I'd like to think my friends & I are inclusive to anyhow. Smile...say hi...buy me a drink. I'm not an ass, I'll talk back icon_smile.gif
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    Dec 01, 2007 5:54 AM GMT
    I am only disturbed by the idea of cliques in that gay men should know better. We all saw the cliques and how hurtful they could be when we were young. Then so many gay men go on to recreate the same behavior, as though they want to know what the experience would feel like.

    In a smaller city like mine the cliques clog up the gay community so finding a gay friend can be next to impossible unless you're invited into the clique. Therefore all of my close friends are straight.
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    Dec 01, 2007 6:33 AM GMT
    I tend to agree with highsierra, but any group of human beings with a set of commonly identifying attributes is going to exhibit some level of overattribution behavior. Google "fundamental attribution error" for an interesting primer on the topic.

    Otherwise, besides my partner, I really only have one gay friend. There is one gay group we loosely associate with, and I do notice a definite pecking order. On the other hand, I have a handful of straight male friends, but I don't notice a lot of exclusionary or cliquish behavior from them.
  • ScotXY

    Posts: 117

    Dec 01, 2007 6:42 AM GMT
    For me I have always been along since 21 not any real strong frinds. I have had now a friend from about 2002 but she is not here in state.

    I had developed close best friends and they developed out of other friends at my work place. We all actually met from gay monthly lunch meetings where we all go out and all. and that I changed jobs into Tech support from sales... And gained another close best friend.

    So now In all I really have close friend D and K 3 of us are very tight. We are all kinda small tight nit group of very good friends who are there for each other good and bad. There is another 5 others who are in larger group that I usualy see weekly and others from work.


    This is first time I have been lucky to find this and have it for a while. I am happy for as long s this is going right now. If any thinh I have needed this more then anything else.

    Further we are not nelly group most people just thiank we are all friends or dates no real down to earth people.

    D my best friend has alot of things he does with other firends and his bf .... K is the same way hanging with her bf and other firends. But we are all really there for eachother and all.
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    Dec 02, 2007 2:25 AM GMT
    LOL, cliques are downright fun and if you can't join one, start one, lol.
    Or not, I think cliquish behavior was almost essential for our gay ancestors to survive, but now we should be evolved enough to leave cliques in the past where they belong, because exclusionary tactics like cliques just alienate people who are different. And with so many gay boys coming out everyday who don't fit into any stereotype, gay cliques can make this fresh meat disappear and we don't want thaticon_exclaim.gif
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    Dec 06, 2007 10:21 AM GMT
    Alegria11978 can I buy you a drink? icon_lol.gif
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    Dec 06, 2007 12:22 PM GMT
    I don't belong to any social groups, gay or otherwise, formal or informal specifically because they almost always become cliquish, self-important, judgemental, etc... bascially, they exhibit all the qualities I dislike. Not all of them start that way, and I'm sure there's probably some somewhere that never go that way, but all of those types of groups that I've had experience with end up like that.

    I'm not a group-mentality kind of person and I like it like that.
  • LoganITGuy

    Posts: 31

    Dec 21, 2007 4:35 PM GMT
    Mutz: Sure. Top shelf long island or grey goose & redbull.