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Aug 01, 2009 11:09 AM GMT
This article doesn't mention it, but his remark was that Notre Dame did "a little faggot dance." First, I question whether if that hadn't been directed at ND if it would have gotten this much attention and a penalty. Second, I note the ongoing poll link in the article, which indicates 80% oppose firing him over it, with comments mostly complaining about liberal "political correctness" being at fault, or that the faggot word is appropriate. Of course an NBC sports site, so lots of straight jocks, but does suggest to me where the sources of our greatest opposition are located. http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32245561/ns/sports-college_football/ |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:14 PM GMT
Red_Vespa saidThis article doesn't mention it, but his remark was that Notre Dame did "a little faggot dance." First, I question whether if that hadn't been directed at ND whether it would have gotten this much attention and a penalty.
Second, I note the ongoing poll link in the article, which indicates 80% oppose firing him over it, with comments mostly complaining about liberal "political correctness" being at fault, or that the faggot word is appropriate. Of course an NBC sports site, so lots of straight jocks, but does suggest to me where the sources of our greatest opposition are located.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32245561/ns/sports-college_football/ i don't think he should be fired |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:17 PM GMT
He was annoyingly apologetic for his choice of words. Like, he said I'm sorry fifty times in a row and said he didn't mean it, he didn't want to upset anyone, he doesn't really think like that, etc.
If someone winds up being annoying with how bad they feel about something, that's punishment enough. I don't think he should be penalized at all.
McMackin: I would sincerely like to apologize for the inappropriate verbage, words that I used. I'm really ticked off at myself for saying that. I don't have any prejudices and it really makes me mad that I even said that and I'm disappointed in myself. What I was trying to do was be funny and it's not funny and even more it isn't funny to me. I was trying to make a joke and it was a bad choice of words and I really...I really, really...feel bad about it and I wanted to apologize. I'm going to apologize to my team. I'm going to apologize to the people in Hawaii.
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Aug 01, 2009 1:19 PM GMT
jlly_rnchr saidHe was annoyingly apologetic for his choice of words. Like, he said I'm sorry fifty times in a row and said he didn't mean it, he didn't want to upset anyone, he doesn't really think like that, etc.
If someone winds up being annoying with how bad they feel about something, that's punishment enough. I don't think he should be penalized at all. of course he thinks like this. he did verbalize his thoughts i still don't think he should be fired though |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:24 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidjlly_rnchr saidHe was annoyingly apologetic for his choice of words. Like, he said I'm sorry fifty times in a row and said he didn't mean it, he didn't want to upset anyone, he doesn't really think like that, etc.
If someone winds up being annoying with how bad they feel about something, that's punishment enough. I don't think he should be penalized at all.
of course he thinks like this. he did verbalize his thoughts
i still don't think he should be fired though My brother lets the "f" word slip occasionally, but I know he doesn't think like that at all. I mean, he walked in the Philly Pride parade with his girlfriend and her gay best friend. That's a lot more than I've done. So I know he doesn't meant it, and I don't get bent out of shape about it. Now, there is obviously a difference here. My brother doesn't say in front of, well, the world. I still think the guy's apology is sincere. |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:29 PM GMT
jlly_rnchr saidBlackguy4you saidjlly_rnchr saidHe was annoyingly apologetic for his choice of words. Like, he said I'm sorry fifty times in a row and said he didn't mean it, he didn't want to upset anyone, he doesn't really think like that, etc.
If someone winds up being annoying with how bad they feel about something, that's punishment enough. I don't think he should be penalized at all.
of course he thinks like this. he did verbalize his thoughts
i still don't think he should be fired though
My brother lets the "f" word slip occasionally, but I know he doesn't think like that at all. I mean, he walked in the Philly Pride parade with his girlfriend and her gay best friend. That's a lot more than I've done. So I know he doesn't meant it, and I don't get bent out of shape about it.
Now, there is obviously a difference here. My brother doesn't say in front of, well, the world. I still think the guy's apology is sincere. we'll just have to agree to disagree. we do both agree that he should not be fired. that's good enough for me i always believe - that out of the hearth the mouth speaks. |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:29 PM GMT
I most certainly think he should be fired. He not only said "little faggot dance" once, but a total of 3 times. He is a bloody coach! There are guys on his teams that not only look up to this dolt but most likely admire him. So why should we allow this joke to be someone that teaches kids? If this was a racial or ethnic slur, you know for a fact that that group's activists would be all over this. Where are our bloody activists?!? I have sent a couple of emails and posted a letter. This school HAD the reputation of fighting intolerance. We'll see. Cheers, Keith  NB - One more thing...he also requested that the media not print nor release the audio tapes. He knew EXACTLY what he was saying when he said it, and what his intent was. And in one of his many apologies he refers to the Gay population as Homosexual. You know the same way the intolerant amoungst the breeders and religious dolts refer to Gays. |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:32 PM GMT
Musclequest saidI most certainly think he should be fired. He not only said "little faggot dance" once, but a total of 3 times.
He is a bloody coach! There are guys on his teams that not only look up to this dolt but most likely admire him. So why should we allow this joke to be someone that teaches kids?
If this was a racial or ethnic slur, you know for a fact that that group's activists would be all over this. Where are our bloody activists?!? I have sent a couple of emails and posted a letter. This school HAD the reputation of fighting intolerance. We'll see.
Cheers,
Keith
oh for pete's sake - take a chill pill!! if it was an ethnic slur - you would be the first person here saying it wasn't a racial incident. you need to stop playing the gay card on every situation! |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:41 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidMusclequest saidI most certainly think he should be fired. He not only said "little faggot dance" once, but a total of 3 times.
He is a bloody coach! There are guys on his teams that not only look up to this dolt but most likely admire him. So why should we allow this joke to be someone that teaches kids?
If this was a racial or ethnic slur, you know for a fact that that group's activists would be all over this. Where are our bloody activists?!? I have sent a couple of emails and posted a letter. This school HAD the reputation of fighting intolerance. We'll see.
Cheers,
Keith
oh for pete's sake - take a chill pill!!
if it was an ethnic slur - you would be the first person here saying it wasn't a racial incident.
you need to stop playing the gay card on every situation!   This coming from you?!? You are such a fucking hypocrite!! If this joker had said "nigger" you would be all over this. (And rightly so. Plus the arse would have been fired.) But because he said Faggot it's alright? Last time I checked you are Gay. (Unfortunately for the rest of Us) You should be all over this as much as you are about racial things!!! So it's OK for someone to slander the Gay side of you, but not the black side of you? Is that it? You are as stupid here, as you were proven to be on the Gates thread. -Keith |
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Aug 01, 2009 1:58 PM GMT
I was more appalled in some ways at the online poll comments than I was at the coach's original remark. Lots of anti-gay hatred out there, guys. Which might mean, viewed as a tactical move, it's better for us that he wasn't fired, but only required to apologize and suffer some penalties. Firing could result in a stronger anti-gay backlash. Yet he did get slapped, sending the message that you don't say this crap. Life sometimes isn't perfectly fair & equitable, so you try to thread your way past the lesser distractions as you make your inexorable way to your goals. Fight the battles you can, but don't get bogged down, keep moving ahead. That's why our US military tactics told us to bypass the enemy strong points when we could, not getting hung-up on them as we moved forward. That was often the fatal error during earlier eras of warfare. And to use force appropriate to the situation, lest by overreacting you waste your resources, and prompt a stronger enemy response when & where you don't want it. And yes, gentlemen, I consider anti-gay elements my enemy, and my approach to them is entirely military in theory, even if I can't really nuke them. A bit of sniper fire, however... j/k...  |
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Aug 01, 2009 2:02 PM GMT
Sorry he said it, but glad he got caught!  Guys think they can artificially pump up their masculinity by making Gay slurs. The stereotype isn't altogether accurate -- I'd like the Coach to reserve comment until he's tried Gay sex once. Two men going at it is hardly sissy -- there's limbs flying, man-sized thighs, unshaved faces, strong arms and the smell of men-at-play. Coach, if you think a pay cut hurts, try an eager but inexperienced hung top. |
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Aug 01, 2009 2:05 PM GMT
Musclequest saidBlackguy4you saidMusclequest saidI most certainly think he should be fired. He not only said "little faggot dance" once, but a total of 3 times.
He is a bloody coach! There are guys on his teams that not only look up to this dolt but most likely admire him. So why should we allow this joke to be someone that teaches kids?
If this was a racial or ethnic slur, you know for a fact that that group's activists would be all over this. Where are our bloody activists?!? I have sent a couple of emails and posted a letter. This school HAD the reputation of fighting intolerance. We'll see.
Cheers,
Keith
oh for pete's sake - take a chill pill!!
if it was an ethnic slur - you would be the first person here saying it wasn't a racial incident.
you need to stop playing the gay card on every situation!
This coming from you?!? You are such a fucking hypocrite!!
If this joker had said "nigger" you would be all over this. (And rightly so. Plus the arse would have been fired.) But because he said Faggot it's alright?
Last time I checked you are Gay. (Unfortunately for the rest of Us) You should be all over this as much as you are about racial things!!!
So it's OK for someone to slander the Gay side of you, but not the black side of you? Is that it? You are as stupid here, as you were proven to be on the Gates thread.
-Keith
If you would like to refer to the gates thread- you would see that I clearly stated that the other policeman who made the jungle monkey comments should not be fired. On that same thread you would note that you made no reference to this - simply because in your esteemed opinion, that too was not a racial issue. Once again proving my point - that you are a bigoted sad little man! On the gates thread neither of us were there - you took the position - that it was not a racial incident - once again proving that you are a sad little bigot of a man. read your comments on religious threads- even the one you had to apologize for yesterday Now bigotry it is stated, is based on nothing more than pure unadulterated ignorance... ergo you are .... please feel free to fill in the blanks. He actually would have had to say "a n***** dance". And I'm sure you could find one, but as far as I know there's no such thing. And I'm sure you are aware that some black people do call each other n*****. Was he drunk, was he white, black, Asian, was he breaking into his own home. What sort of dealings has he had with black people... So there would be lots of things to investigate before a determination could be made. Now - knowing that you are a self righteous little bigot of a man, had you used the term "nigger". Yep I would state categorically that you certainly did mean to use it in its prejorative sense and that you should be fired. Reasoning being that you are, repeat after me - A SAD LITTLE BIGOT OF A MAN! |
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Aug 01, 2009 2:10 PM GMT
I'm going to have to create a thread on this one of these days Musclequest- that private email that you just sent me... I have no interest in reading it. I do try to answer all of my emails - i'm however just going to go ahead and delete yours. So if you do not receive a response from me, it is not because I'm being rude, it's more because I do not wish to receive private messages from you, ok! |
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Aug 01, 2009 2:13 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidI'm going to have to create a thread on this one of these days
Musclequest- that private email that you just sent me... I have no interest in reading it. I do try to answer all of my emails - i'm however just going to go ahead and delete yours. So if you do not receive a response from me, it is not because I'm being rude, it's more because I do not wish to receive private messages from you, ok!
Well here is the email I had sent you:
"Look...I don't know about you, but I'm getting tired of fighting with you. We have opposing views on almost everything and we really can't stand the other. Nothing productive comes from our fights. Except going on and on and on.....lol
I propose we make an agreement not to go after each other's posts directly. No more calling the other out. We can have opposing views, but not attack eachother's posts directly. Even if we say something absolutely out there that drives the other crazy.
It's up to you. It's the only "olive branch" I'll ever offer. (See? I even threw in a religious reference. (Damn, my fingers are bleeding!))
-Keith"
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Aug 01, 2009 2:23 PM GMT
Ugh. First, remember it is an online poll, not a scientific one. It is disheartening, but try not to make more of it than it really is. Polls like that tend to attract fringes not the average person.
Second, I think he should be fired, though I will admit it is a close one. He is an agent of the university and if he is unable to comport himself to the values the university claims (and I emphasize, "claims") to share, then he ought to go.
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Aug 01, 2009 3:23 PM GMT
Well coming from a team that used to be called the Rainbow Warriors and dropped the term rainbow because of the homosexual double entendre (gay pride) and the chiding they received for it, I think it is what it is. There's more to homophobia in that school and in collegiate sports altogether than that one word he used.
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Aug 01, 2009 3:27 PM GMT
I think the suspension should have been 60 days. I also don't think he should have been fired.
First, a 30 day suspension doesn't extend into the actual NCAA football season. He has assistant coaches who can handle the day to day coaching in the preseason camps. So, this suspension doesn't really "punish" him in an obvious way and does not make a statement to the fans of Hawaii football (and college football in general). It will appear like business as usual when he appears on the field for their games.
On the other hand, if he was out through September, then an assistant coach would be coaching the team. He'd have to stay away from the games. It would make a much better point locally and nationally.
Second, I am speaking as a college professor AND a college football fan here. While I believe that in this country the slur "faggot" has less of a sordid history in terms of hateful behavior than the slur "nigger" has, I do believe that in terms of the world at large (and history at large) it may nearly have the same awful significance. It seems that in every culture and nearly every religion, treating gay persons as subhumans, or criminals, has been tolerated for centuries.
In this country, there is still too much "wink wink" going on in college athletics about removing this bias and showing sensitivity. It's sort of a red neck, back room chortling, whereas at the front end of most universities the "happy face" of inclusiveness is painted on as a veneer.
I realize that poll was not scientific. But I do believe that 80% of the people who support college sports DO believe that the word "faggot" is not much of a slur....and think it is funny. It also perpetuates a stereotype much commented on in other Forum threads...that to be gay is to be giggly, and jump up and down like "girl cheerleaders" or whatever the "faggoty dance" to which he is referring means. Meanwhile, I almost guarantee to you there are one or two guys on the Hawaii football team who are gay, but who by inclination would never do a "faggotty dance"....but suck dick like the rest of us who are staying hidden, because "business as usual" for college athletics means being homophobic.
It's high time this stops. No, I don't think he should be fired. But he wasn't fired. He was suspended. But I think the suspension is too short.
John
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Aug 02, 2009 4:05 AM GMT
Musclequest saidBlackguy4you saidI'm going to have to create a thread on this one of these days
Musclequest- that private email that you just sent me... I have no interest in reading it. I do try to answer all of my emails - i'm however just going to go ahead and delete yours. So if you do not receive a response from me, it is not because I'm being rude, it's more because I do not wish to receive private messages from you, ok!
Well here is the email I had sent you:
"Look...I don't know about you, but I'm getting tired of fighting with you. We have opposing views on almost everything and we really can't stand the other. Nothing productive comes from our fights. Except going on and on and on.....lol
I propose we make an agreement not to go after each other's posts directly. No more calling the other out. We can have opposing views, but not attack eachother's posts directly. Even if we say something absolutely out there that drives the other crazy.
It's up to you. It's the only "olive branch" I'll ever offer. (See? I even threw in a religious reference. (Damn, my fingers are bleeding!))
-Keith"
Olive branc accepted. How about if we both agree to stick to discussing the issues and leave all personal attacks and name calling aside. |
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Aug 02, 2009 4:21 AM GMT
Should he be fired if he had said they did a little nigger dance? Blackguy4you saidRed_Vespa saidThis article doesn't mention it, but his remark was that Notre Dame did "a little faggot dance." First, I question whether if that hadn't been directed at ND whether it would have gotten this much attention and a penalty.
Second, I note the ongoing poll link in the article, which indicates 80% oppose firing him over it, with comments mostly complaining about liberal "political correctness" being at fault, or that the faggot word is appropriate. Of course an NBC sports site, so lots of straight jocks, but does suggest to me where the sources of our greatest opposition are located.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32245561/ns/sports-college_football/
i don't think he should be fired |
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Aug 02, 2009 4:23 AM GMT
Yes, in my last post I used the "n word". Freak out if you want. And then get over it. My point is, why are some slurs to be tolerated and others not?
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Aug 02, 2009 4:29 AM GMT
pdxboxer said Two men going at it is hardly sissy -- there's limbs flying, man-sized thighs, unshaved faces, strong arms and the smell of men-at-play.
Coach, if you think a pay cut hurts, try an eager but inexperienced hung top.
OH GOD! THIS MADE MY DAY!!!!! [quote][cite]Sparkycat said[/cite] Should he be fired if he had said they did a little nigger dance? Well... you're about 20 posts too late.................................................... |
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Aug 02, 2009 5:07 AM GMT
I wonder how all the little faggots in Hawaii on that team felt when they heard their couch from their team say that?
That was a Freudian slip if ever and it was just downright unsportsmanlike of him for making a comment like that. What other way could he have meant by using the word "faggot"? He sure as hell wasn't taking about a piece of wheat.
As for him being fired well that's a bit harsh but then again considering his job making certain comments in the sporting world can and does have it's consequences. He isn't the first person to have suffered some kind of backlash because of it and I doubt he'll be the last. He also won't be the first person to have been fired for a comment like that.
People can and do get fired for letting their mouth get the better of them. Happens all time. In this coach's case he's painting a bad image that could cost some serious money should his commenting get further out of hand.
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Aug 02, 2009 5:18 AM GMT
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Aug 02, 2009 5:20 AM GMT
Sparkycat saidYes, in my last post I used the "n word". Freak out if you want. And then get over it. My point is, why are some slurs to be tolerated and others not? what is a nigger dance? |
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Aug 02, 2009 5:26 AM GMT
Is that a "jigg" or is it "the butterfly" or maybe it's the" dirty chicken"?
Could be the "stanky leg" or the "booty bounce" for all we know.
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Aug 02, 2009 5:41 AM GMT
Sparky, slap! slap!  In a professional and public setting racial slurs like that are definitely not ok. Call it pc if you want, but I call it tact and any organization should expect propriety from its staff members. |
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Aug 02, 2009 5:47 AM GMT
Exactly, GG.
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Aug 02, 2009 6:28 AM GMT
It's silly to compare this to race. Of course he's not going to use a racial slur when I'm sure several if not most of his team is African-American. What he can't see is that some may also be gay, bi or trans.
Yes it feeds the homophobia that exists in sports in the NCAA. A better question is why doesn't the NCAA include LGBT content in it's diversity training in every member institution. When something so blatantly wrong can slip up in a press conference, I cringe to think of what the athletes have been subjected to in locker rooms, team meetings and personal conversations. This is obviously not an isolated incident for the UH football team, but this guy was just stupid enough to slip in a press conference.
Rather than pressure an individual university or administration, why not pressure the top decision makers at the NCAA. They have consistently shot down any outside help to deal with the incredible homophobia still persistent through out the NCAA community outside of working with Pat Griffin after the Penn State debacle and with It Takes A Team.
They also finally had some LGBT content in the last national meetings, but have not implemented any education or training. Of course coaches will continue to operate under the same misguided assumptions that they have no LGBT athletes and have no clue how to deal with them once their out.
It's the NCAA's job to protect athletes and educate staff so this doesn't happen. Obviously this guy knew this was wrong and should be reprimanded, but there should be something more solid in place when it comes to forcing coaches to progress in to making their teams more accepting of their LGBT student-athletes.
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Aug 02, 2009 6:34 AM GMT
He shouldn't be allowed to say it. I would think a suspension would be in order but firing is over the top. A suspension with a lot of public humiliation in order to bring awareness to others and to help stop these types of slurs being expressed. But firing is too much.
But then again I don't know. If he had said the "N" word most people would agree that he should be fired. So I'm a bit on the fence.
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