Was I wrong? I just got accused of being a pervert!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 4:40 PM GMT
    Yeaterday I was giving some outdoor camping advice to a local gay friend who wants to try it, and related some of the different public campground situations I've encountered. He asked about the shower facilities he might find, so I told him some of my experiences. And he said I was a pervert! Seriously! I got rather offended and cut my visit with him a little short. What are your own thoughts?

    I was telling him that some campgrounds have "comfort stations" with showers, that for men are sometimes open gang, and sometimes private cubicle. But in some places the private ones require you insert quarters to keep them running.

    One I used also had a "family shower" building. It consisted of numerous outside doors you could lock from inside, with a small shower room, and a coin-operated shower head. They were meant so parents could attend small children, but no one prevented a single adult from using one.

    I mentioned I used one when camping alone with my 2 sons, then aged 5 & 9, and he got very perturbed. Now realize that most 5-year-old boys aren't very competent at washing themselves in a shower, especially their hair, plus might be prone to slippery accidents. At home their mother or I would supervise ours in the bathroom.

    Our 9-year old was a special case, suffering from severe ADHD, for which we had him seeing a child psychologist doctor. Left unsupervised, he might stand under the water for long periods doing nothing, using no shampoo or soap, emerging almost as dirty as he went in, his hair a wet greasy mess. So we often had to wash him ourselves, and always oversee him.

    At the campground I couldn't leave the boys alone while I showered myself (their mother & I were already separated, and not with us), so my simple solution was for all 3 of us to go into a family shower room. But was my decision wrong? My friend thinks it was.

    My sons had never seen me naked before, and I assume no other adult male, either. My body hair and adult "size" may have been traumatic to them, as my friend asserted. Though they had certainly seen me pee alongside them when I took them into public restrooms, but maybe this was too much? We never did it again, just that once.

    I wonder still if I made a mistake, as this friend accused me. Gawd knows it didn't involve incestuous sexual motives on my part. But did I hurt my kids? That really bothers me that I might have. Your thoughts? Please tell me I didn't fail as a father, I'm very serious.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 4:47 PM GMT
    so your friend has also been brainwashed, to believe that adult nudity is shameful and harmful to children. Don't go down that path, too. Nudity is natural and healthy and claiming otherwise is just paranoid.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 4:54 PM GMT
    I didn't see you did anything wrong. I remember when I saw my dad naked for the first time I asked him "What is that called?" and he just replied " Its called a penis" I was like only 5 and still learning the names of the body parts in English.It didn't traumatize me. But since your son has ADHD and can't properly clean himself I think you did the right thing. I don't think your friend has kids? or does he?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 4:55 PM GMT
    Your friend needs help.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
    Wrong?

    Wrong would be leaving your children unsupervised in the forest while you shower alone.

    Wrong would be expecting a 5 year old to bathe himself properly.

    Wrong would be expecting a 9 year old with attention problems to use proper attention in bathing himself.

    Wrong is thinking that a child will be harmed by seeing a adult demonstrating proper hygiene.

    your uptight friend is wrong
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 5:20 PM GMT
    Give a bit more credit to children.

    When we were kids, me and my brother snuck up to our dad when he was peeing just to see his penis. Simple childhood curiosity. We thought it was funny that it was so much larger than ours. Note that up until I was seven I thought kissing made girls pregnant. We thought it was simply for peeing, a funny looking thing at that. Dad wasn't amused though. LOL

    Although I turned out gay, my brother didn't. I've seen his porn. It was nothing at all and definitely had nothing to do with me turning out gay much less 'traumatize' me. I mean, it was my dad forchrissakes. Why would I be traumatized for something like that? For as long as I can remember, it's an unspoken fact that it has never been a big deal to see fellow male family members naked. It's seeing the women which was 'bad' (which we avoided diligently).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
    No mistake made. I see nothing wrong.

    At the YMCA, I see dads with their young sons all the time......naked......showering together and dad sometimes washes the kid.

    So what?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 5:51 PM GMT
    I see nothing wrong.

    At my gym (Columbia University) There are a few dads that are in same situation.

    What is wrong with responsible parenting?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 6:13 PM GMT
    lenoxx saidI don't think your friend has kids? or does he?

    He's never told me he has, or that he was ever married, as I was. His objection was that adult men shouldn't be naked in front of little boys, even their own sons.

    Certainly I remember that places like the Y kept our boys locker rooms separate, and our naked swimming times segregated from the "grown-ups". And I must admit, I never saw my own late father naked, don't even know if he was circumcised or not. I think the first adult males I ever saw completely naked, and not elsewhere, were at summer camp from ages 8 thru 10, when we went skinny-dipping with our counselors.

    Though my Dad & I did pee together when he escorted me into mens rooms when I was little, and also out in the woods, where we literally would have "pissing contests" for distance (something I never did with my own boys). But I never actually looked at my Father, because as a kid that didn't even occur to me. Your penis was for peeing and nothing else, and held no interest or fascination except as a bathroom device you used for that purpose, and then you forgot about it.

    So when I showered naked with my 2 sons while camping it did occur to me that I was doing something wrong, that I myself hadn't done with my own Father. Therefore, when this local guy here criticized me, he hit me in a vulnerable area. I appreciate those here who have so far said I wasn't being a pervert.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 6:40 PM GMT
    No

    mothers have no issues being naked in front of their daughters so why should a father be terrified of being naked in front of his sons.

    I think the male anatomy has just been so vilified that its not even funny. I've seen my father's dick before. Its not that big of deal. Didn't do anything to my self esteem either.

    Didn't make me gay or repressed or anything of the sort.

    your friend needs serious help.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 7:53 PM GMT



    We're with Lostboy; your friend needs help -some counseling may be just the thing!

    We showered with Dad on and off til we were 10 or so - with monthly water bills it saved $$$. Good lord, sometimes when camping, boy-kids and men showered together in groups for Pete's sake. WTF?

    This is koo-koo, you know your friend really has some serious issues....

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 8:05 PM GMT
    Fathers shouldn't be naked in front of their own sons? Are you kidding me?

    I've peed with my two young boys (now 5 and 8 ), and showered with them. They'll stare, and blurt out the darndest things. ("Whoa, you got a big one!") But they have curiosity about everything in their world, including the human body. They then move on to the next topic that catches their interest.

    It's not a big deal unless you make it a big deal.

    Like Vespa, I've never seen my dad naked. Maybe that's what turned me gay!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 8:14 PM GMT

    I must chime in too, RV.

    You did nothing wrong.

    Growing up, my family took long roadtrips every summer, and usually stayed in campgrounds. Growing up in the mountains of Northern Idaho, camping was the thing to do.

    I have 3 brothers, and we almost always ended up in places with communal or family showers. All 4 of us boys and my dad would shower together almost every time. No one thought anything of it.

    It was a bit more of an innocent time back then (70's).

    Camping with my family has given me some of my fondest memories.

    Don't listen to your friend.icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 8:28 PM GMT
    For being gay, your friend sure does have a puritanical streak about him.

    What you did is normal and appropriate. You needed to supervise them and you did.

    A penis is not something to be ashamed of. Boys need to see what an adult male body looks like, in an appropriate setting, so that when they hit puberty they can better handle the changes.
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Aug 01, 2009 8:28 PM GMT
    some peoples attitudes make you wonder how humanity has made it this far...

    a parent is SUPPOSED to be responsible for children, and has been also stated, the human body is one of the most natural things on this planet. what is wrong with many kids these days is that they have been sheltered too much by parents, and then get what they know off the street or from the movies/tv/internet, now there's natural for you...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 8:38 PM GMT
    Gotta go with the other guys here. You didn't do anything wrong. Americans are fanatical about nudity and see pedophiles at every turn.
  • UFJocknerd

    Posts: 392

    Aug 01, 2009 8:44 PM GMT
    Wild guess that nudity inspires fear in the friend, but that he has little trouble with children playing video games containing gut-splattering violence.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 8:54 PM GMT
    Your friend sounds little goofy. Kids are stronger emotionally and smarter than we give them credit for nowadays.

    If he's the one thinking "dirty" thoughts, he's the perv.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 9:02 PM GMT
    you did nothing wrong. absolutely nothing.
    i would be offended, too, by those accusations
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Aug 01, 2009 9:03 PM GMT
    No, you didn't do anything wrong. Your friend has issues. Making it an issue would be wrong, that's what creates problems - like the one your friend has about it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 9:03 PM GMT
    RedVespa, from our brief "chat's" I can tell that you of all people are far from being a pervert, so I wouldn't worry too much about what this guy said or thought.....unless you think he might contact social services, then I'd go kick his ever-disgusting arse!
    I grew up around male uncles/relatives who thought nothing of changing into/out of swimwear or showering after a swim with young-uns around and later when I had to go to gym class I was one of the better adjusted guys who wasn't body shy. I knew what a foreskin was before most guys my age knew that it wasn't called a "dinkus" or a "pee-pee"..
    I've never considered the human nude body something to be ashamed of or covered up except as polite society asks.
    You did nothing wrong. Busybodies need to get over themselves.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Aug 01, 2009 9:04 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    The way to make your children neurotic is to treat the body as a big taboo.



    Agreed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 10:10 PM GMT
    red, I think your friend is way uptight.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 01, 2009 10:16 PM GMT
    That's perfectly normal—you're their father for crying out loud! I think most Americans are too uptight with their bodies and nudity. For him to think there was something wrong with that is the real perversion.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Aug 01, 2009 10:23 PM GMT
    Tom, I think you did fine.

    I didn't read all of the responses above, but let me say this..... it was some years ago that you followed this routine.. society has changed in the last 10 or 20 years. Think about even spanking a child in public. Now I don't want to debate whether that be right or wrong, but my point is that societal
    acceptance has changed. What might have seemed absolutely perfect at that time, now seems to be a topic of debate.

    I think you did what any father would have done... mine did, after we swam at Wilson Lake when I was a toddler. The idea the guy questioned your parental skills was bad enough, but to call you something like that was totally inappopriate. I doubt if I'd talk much to him anytime soon.