U.S. Military Accused of Atrocities against Iraqi Gays

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 02, 2009 12:08 AM GMT
    http://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=26487

    It's a pretty disturbing claim. I don't know how believable it is, but if its true I'm gonna be pissed.
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    Aug 02, 2009 12:21 AM GMT
    TheIStrat saidhttp://www.washblade.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=26487
    It's a pretty disturbing claim. I don't know how believable it is, but if its true I'm gonna be pissed.


    Interesting article, thanks for posting. I think the accusations are highly suspect and not very believable. Pictures can be worth a thousand words...whose words and whose agenda, now thats a different story!

    Looks like propaganda to me....
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    Aug 02, 2009 12:25 AM GMT
    The Blade, which published the article, also published an editorial about it...

    http://www.washblade.com/2009/7-31/view/editorial/14966.cfm
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    Aug 02, 2009 1:16 AM GMT
    Thanks ThelStrat.

    After reading that one my suspicions are up. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders...
    1. Maybe this is a republican scheme to cast the LGBT community in a light that is against American soldiers and America in general
    2. I think this was a scheme to get more donation money.
    3. I agree, HRC should be more judicious when letting other groups use its resources. Just think of all those who Americans who have donated to HRC and now they see this!
    4. I would be curious where those donations are really ending up; I highly doubt they would be going to help Middle Eastern LGBT people with an approach like this.
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    Aug 02, 2009 1:21 AM GMT
    Beheading isnt an american way of executing someone. I am not believing this article until there is more proof.
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    Aug 02, 2009 1:48 AM GMT
    True. Lynchings and burning crosses are most prefered...icon_neutral.gif
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    Aug 02, 2009 1:59 AM GMT
    Caslon12000 saidBeheading isnt an american way of executing someone. I am not believing this article until there is more proof.

    Well I'm not seeing this story from other news sources. Any links to AP, Reuters, BBC, NYT, the major US broadcasters and cable outlets?
  • DCEric

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    Aug 02, 2009 2:10 AM GMT
    Navy96 saidTrue. Lynchings and burning crosses are most prefered...icon_neutral.gif

    Well, leaving racial tensions behind we could throw in cement shoes and drug violence.
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    Aug 02, 2009 3:03 AM GMT
    Well, if you keep repeating something on the internet, it eventually becomes "the truth".

    So far, this story has only been re-posted on various GLBT websites.

    Food for thought.
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    Aug 02, 2009 3:18 AM GMT
    At this point, I am not buying it. But if it turns out to be true, it will most likely destroy any chance for gay and lesbian soldiers to be open in our military. Or maybe this is fuel to push for the overturn of DADT and give our gay and lesbian soldiers power to be themselves. More food for thought.
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    Aug 02, 2009 3:56 AM GMT
    If this is true I will be BEYOND outragedicon_evil.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif......how shamefull, vile, disgusting, and sad.....as if those poor people(Iraqi gay&straight) have not gone through enoughicon_cry.gif
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    Aug 02, 2009 4:19 AM GMT
    When it comes to war..there is no rules....im not patriotic because of that rule.....im sure they did some of the stuff mentioned in the article. War certainly will let you loose all care for morality....I did a paper on the cold war and the Korean war and in both wars there were crimes done to civilians especially crimes against women and children. Theres a llot of shit in the American army history that you would be shocked to read about. OOOO have we forgot about those pictures....that circulated....back in 2004...in the prison...
    Abu Ghraib prison to be exact---the same prison where the bush administration denied any form of torture taking place...so we should never say never..as anything is possible in times of war.
  • coolarmydude

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    Aug 02, 2009 4:52 AM GMT
    I have a hard time believing this story. I don't think Soldiers would engage in beheadings. And as trained as we are in tolerance by way of equal opportunity training, I don't think that even those who are against gays in the military would go this far. How do we round up dozens of gay Iraqis to execute them when we're busy weeding out extremism and trying to conduct reconstruction projects?
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    Aug 02, 2009 11:03 AM GMT
    tereseus1 saidWhen it comes to war..there is no rules....im not patriotic because of that rule.....im sure they did some of the stuff mentioned in the article. War certainly will let you loose all care for morality....I did a paper on the cold war and the Korean war and in both wars there were crimes done to civilians especially crimes against women and children. Theres a llot of shit in the American army history that you would be shocked to read about. OOOO have we forgot about those pictures....that circulated....back in 2004...in the prison...
    Abu Ghraib prison to be exact---the same prison where the bush administration denied any form of torture taking place...so we should never say never..as anything is possible in times of war.


    Actually, you are wrong; there are rules in warfare. Have you not heard of The Law of Armed Conflict? Google it. Also we are signatories of the Geneva Convention (although we know under Bush it was abused). The US Military also has the Uniform Code of Military Justice. All these mechanisms are meant to prevent such acts. I am not saying atrocities do not occur, because they have and always will because human beings do F-ed up shit.

    As far as your paper goes, you should have expanded your research it sounds like you were too narrow in your approach.
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    Aug 02, 2009 12:03 PM GMT
    OK, my bullshit flag is way up. There are a lot better things to chase after than an extreme minority in Iraq.

    Beheadings? Come on, something like that couldn't be hidden from any chain of command.

    Some folks might have a low opinion of the military, but there are a lot of checks and balances to make sure soldiers do the right thing and don't commit atrocities. If one is committed, it is identified, investigated and prosecuted if necessary.
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    Aug 02, 2009 12:24 PM GMT
    tereseus1 saidWhen it comes to war..there is no rules....im not patriotic because of that rule.....im sure they did some of the stuff mentioned in the article. War certainly will let you loose all care for morality....I did a paper on the cold war and the Korean war and in both wars there were crimes done to civilians especially crimes against women and children. Theres a llot of shit in the American army history that you would be shocked to read about. OOOO have we forgot about those pictures....that circulated....back in 2004...in the prison...
    Abu Ghraib prison to be exact---the same prison where the bush administration denied any form of torture taking place...so we should never say never..as anything is possible in times of war.


    So not true. If that was the case we would've blown plenty of places up by now. We are indeed bounded by many agreements. Our policies alone on what kind of warfare we will take place in, to the weapons that we use, though all very debilitating and perhaps not for the best, are because of such rules.

    And since this post seems to have the potential to become an Anti american thread very quickly, let me be the first to speak on her behalf and say that just as not one single human being is a representation of the species as a whole, just not one gay is a representation of every gay man on earth, not one soldier is a representation of the army, or military as a whole. Though we should be one single entity you have people who still demand they be individuals.

    And for as Abu ghraib, which to the civilian eye was so atrocious and awful, and though I do not agree with it either, if you truly knew what they did to our people over sees, it wouldn't seem half as monstorous to you.

    You just see their heads get chopped off over the internet, for those of you sick enough to watch it. If you knew the rest it would piss you off even more.
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    Aug 02, 2009 2:40 PM GMT
    Caslon12000 saidBeheading isnt an american way of executing someone. I am not believing this article until there is more proof.


    Without question there is anti-gay violence in Iraq. Another beheaded corpse in Iraq looks like Iraqi violence, not US violence. After the Blackwater boys were convicted of murder for shooting up a few Iraqi innocents, beheading seems like a good way to cover your tracks.
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    Aug 02, 2009 2:48 PM GMT
    Did you read the article..."appear" was used ALOT!!!

    Honestly I know a lot of soldiers....most of them don't even care if your gay bi or whatever!!
    AND knowing what I know about people...I think Americans would be too lazy to "cut" someone's head off! They would have just shot them if anything!
    Still doesn't make it ok...but I think some one is "crying wolf" here!
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    Aug 02, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
    I'm still waiting to read some collaborative stories from major news sources. Do we have them yet?
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    Aug 02, 2009 7:06 PM GMT
    Not referring to the OP article...but i think you are all naive to believe that soldiers actually follow the rules of the Geneva convention or any rules at all. I actually have a friend that is in the marines and he says that their superiors give them freedom to do whatever they like under the ideology that every civilian can be a enemy combatant and that he has seen more laws broken by Marines against innocent civilians. They don't get reprimanded because that will only open other problems...so spare me about the geneva convention and the other rules garnered from The Law of Armed Conflict..In the battlefield there are only soldiers...the ones giving out orders are never on the frontline to manage or make sure any wrong doings are recorded. Just because there are signed rules and guidelines....doesnt mean that people follow them.
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    Aug 02, 2009 7:16 PM GMT



    I'm in the military, and I've been deployed recently, I personally have not experienced this level of hostility (beheading) from our side. The gay bashing however, I've heard that on occassion.
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    Aug 02, 2009 7:19 PM GMT
    tereseus1 saidWhen it comes to war..there is no rules....im not patriotic because of that rule.....im sure they did some of the stuff mentioned in the article. War certainly will let you loose all care for morality....I did a paper on the cold war and the Korean war and in both wars there were crimes done to civilians especially crimes against women and children. Theres a llot of shit in the American army history that you would be shocked to read about. OOOO have we forgot about those pictures....that circulated....back in 2004...in the prison...
    Abu Ghraib prison to be exact---the same prison where the bush administration denied any form of torture taking place...so we should never say never..as anything is possible in times of war.



    There are rules for the general populous of the military. International and national. You should not loose your patriotism on account of a few retards.
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    Aug 02, 2009 7:26 PM GMT
    How would this be surprising if it were the truth?

    It's Iraq... it's an imperial military occupation...

    my major suspicions would be whether the people involved knew that the Iraqis were gay, or was it just okay to kill them simply because they were Iraqi?

    war dehumanizes all people involved. especially when people are thrown back for several tours, unprecedented in any war in US history, psychological problems are likely to be incurred.

    symptoms of this are that famous video of the soldier throwing the puppy over the cliff, or the many dozens of videos of soldiers shooting and blowing up dogs and other animals, or moving away from the animals, which are less dehumanized than Iraqis... we see the video on youtube of the soldiers laughing as they hold a bottle of water off the back of a truck and Iraqi children run trying to get it... funny... or how about the videos and cases of just random shooting civilians for fun?

    what about the Haditha massacre?

    i honestly just dont see how this would be surprising.
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    Aug 03, 2009 4:46 AM GMT
    No way. How would Iraqi refuggees know what American soldiers has posted in front of their barracks. No way refugees get on base to see the barracks. Pure BS
  • imperator

    Posts: 626

    Aug 08, 2009 11:46 PM GMT
    xrichx saidWell, if you keep repeating something on the internet, it eventually becomes "the truth".

    So far, this story has only been re-posted on various GLBT websites.

    Food for thought.


    You really think we'd hear much about it from the mainstream news media
    if it is true? The corporate media is owned by moneyed parties
    who almost invariably skew conservative-- at least once they get rich--
    because it's in the interest of their continued prosperity to maintain
    the status quo of the system they got rich in. And those owners are
    unprincipled in the operation of their media outlets-- they don't stay
    in that business out of concern for the truth, they do it for the money.
    It's all about the ratings, and ratings means they need a scoop. Scoops
    require access to privileged sources like government and military
    insiders.

    So as far as the reporting angle goes, you're trusting media agencies
    who are beholden to their investors and owners, and who remain in the
    good graces of their profit-crucial sources by not alienating them with
    unfavourable reporting. You've got reporters censoring what they pass
    along from government and industry insiders who are already censoring
    what they share. Frankly, I'm more inclined to trust minor GLBT outlets on 'our issues' over CNN or network news.

    As for whether it's possible that the story is true and that U.S.
    military personnel are abusing (and even murdering) gay Iraqis... the
    U.S. military systematically dehumanizes *American* homos by not
    allowing them to serve openly. It's institutionalized. Military doctrine is that we're "less;" less worthy to be soldiers, less worthy citizens, less worthy human beings. Throw on top of that that we're talking about gay *Iraqis,* who are seen as people who need to be policed and controlled if not fought
    and killed. And that we know that the U.S. military forces there have engaged in abuse of prisoners (see Abu Ghraib, for one), not because of "a couple bad apples" but because the higher ups placed soldiers in the role of prison guards and were permissive rather than providing appropriate oversight. And we know that because the military has been stretched thin they've been lowering recruitment standards, letting in racists and criminals who are signing up giddy at the opportunity to "shoot rag-heads." And you think that it's far out there that gay Iraqis could be turning up dead on their watch?

    I wouldn't be surprised if it was happening-- if some troops were killing "hajii faggots" for kicks-- and I'd be even less surprised if the corporate-owned, government-ass-kissing mainstream media didn't care enough about us to cover it if they did know about it.

    Which is not to say, however, that it is necessarily true. We don't know for certain. But I do think it would be naive to write it off out of hand.