Bailouts, Inflation and Depression

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    Aug 03, 2009 1:47 AM GMT
    If you think Obama is going to save the economy, or ALREADY has. Think again!The only thing Obama has done is prolong and delay the inevitable, and make the inevitable that much worse.

    First off: “President Barack Obama is delaying by about a month the annual mid-year White House review of economic and deficit forecasts”
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a_grx5EJ.58o

    Why? Could it have something to do with the deficits being built up? For those who think that the total money given away (printed out of thin air!) to “solve” the crisis (as opposed to “save the banks”) was about $800 billion under Bush and $700 billion under Obama… brace yourself.

    In March, it was reported that “The U.S. government and the Federal Reserve have spent, lent or committed $12.8 trillion, an amount that approaches the value of everything produced in the country last year, to stem the longest recession since the 1930s.”
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4

    The same day Obama delayed release of the budget forecasts, the major financial watchdog group released its own report, saying that, “the government's maximum exposure could total nearly $24 trillion, or $80,000 for every American.”
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32010841/ns/business-us_business/

    Also, for those that think the bailouts were a good idea, and that they will save the economy, sorry to disappoint, but they were a scam to save the banks and screw the people. And yes, that INCLUDES Obama’s bailout. The bailouts could and likely will have a disastrous affect on the economy, as: “The most dangerous consequence of federal bailouts is growing market anxiety about an eventual Treasury default, raising the specter of potentially fatal damage to the credit of the U.S. Treasury.”
    http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20090319005663&newsLang=en

    Gerald Celente, CEO of Trends Research Institute, who accurately predicted the 1987 stock market crash, the fall of the Soviet Union, the 1990 recession, the 1998 Russian economic collapse, the East Asian currency crisis, the 2000 Dot-Com bubble burst, the 2007 recession, and the 2008 housing bubble burst, among many others, is saying some important things today.

    He warns that within the next 3 years, by 2012, the US will be in the “greatest depression” in history, that there will be civil conflict, riots, rebellions, and possible revolution in the United States. He refers to the “collapse of 09” explaining that the retail and commercial real estate market will collapse, being worse than the housing collapse. He explains the stimulus bills wont help because you cant spend your way out of a problem, you have to produce your way out.

    He warns about the “Bailout bubble” which will burst, saying: “The biggest financial bubble in history is being inflated in plain sight,” calling it “the Mother of All Bubbles,” and that when it bursts, “it will signal the end to the boom/bust cycle that has characterized economic activity throughout the developed world.” Further, “when the 'Bailout Bubble' explodes, the system goes with it.” After it bursts, “With no more massive economic bubbles left to blow up, they'll set their sights on bigger targets,” and Celente explained, “Given the pattern of governments to parlay egregious failures into mega-failures, the classic trend they follow, when all else fails, is to take their nation to war.” He concludes the Trend Forecast, “While we cannot pinpoint precisely when the 'Bailout Bubble' will burst, we are certain it will. When it does, it should be understood that a major war could follow.”
    http://geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com/2009/05/gerald-celente-bubble-to-end-all.html

    Even the Bank for International Settlements, the central bank of central banks and the most pre-eminent and powerful financial institution in the world, said:“fiscal stimulus packages may provide no more than a temporary boost to growth, and be followed by an extended period of economic stagnation.” As reported, “The only international body to correctly predict the financial crisis - the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) - has warned the biggest risk is that governments might be forced by world bond investors to abandon their stimulus packages, and instead slash spending while lifting taxes and interest rates.” Further, “countries such as Australia faced the possibility of a run on the currency,” and that, “It said there would not be a sustainable recovery until major problems in both the financial system and in the real economy were tackled, and it warned that governments were a long way from dealing adequately with either.” Not surprisingly, “government guarantees and asset insurance have exposed taxpayers to potentially large losses.”


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    Aug 03, 2009 1:48 AM GMT
    Explaining that fiscal stimulus packages pose major risks with debt imbalances, the BIS said: “There is the definite possibility that stimulus programs will drive up real interest rates and inflation expectations,” and, “although inflation might seem a remote prospect at the moment, it would intensify as the downturn abated.”
    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,25710566-601,00.html

    The BIS further warned of inflation, saying that, “The big and justifiable worry is that, before it can be reversed, the dramatic easing in monetary policy will translate into growth in the broader monetary and credit aggregates,” the BIS said. That will “lead to inflation that feeds inflation expectations or it may fuel yet another asset-price bubble, sowing the seeds of the next financial boom-bust cycle.”
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aOnSy9jXFKaY

    Other have warned of inflation, too. “Legendary investor” Jim Rogers warned that the US is headed to “a massive inflation holocaust.”
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/27097823

    Major investor Marc Faber warned, “The U.S. economy will enter “hyperinflation” approaching the levels in Zimbabwe.” Further, “I am 100 percent sure that the U.S. will go into hyperinflation,” Faber said. “The problem with government debt growing so much is that when the time will come and the Fed should increase interest rates, they will be very reluctant to do so and so inflation will start to accelerate.”
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=avgZDYM6mTFA

    Other organizations are warning of hyperinflation: “The rioting and looting after Hurricane Katrina was just a warm up to what is likely to take place during hyperinflation. When the U.S. Dollar becomes worthless, cities and municipalities won't be able to pay their police forces. Without any law and order or food on the shelves at stores, the facade of civilization that exists today will quickly evaporate.”
    [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS202207ÓJun-2009+PRN20090601[/url]

    The warning from the BIS should not be taken lightly. The Financial Times even stated that, “The central bankers’ bank had previously given the most accurate warnings about the impending financial crisis.”
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/947cfe24-64d7-11de-a13f-00144feabdc0.html?nclick_check=1

    In 2003, the BIS warned that a sinking US dollar could bring the world under and warned of an impending financial crisis:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2003/jul/06/globaleconomy.usnews

    In 2005, its annual report again warned that monetary policies of the major nations, particularly the US, are leading to a major financial crisis:
    http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/jul2005/bis-j05.shtml

    In 2007, it was reported that, “The Bank for International Settlements, the world's most prestigious financial body, has warned that years of loose monetary policy has fuelled a dangerous credit bubble, leaving the global economy more vulnerable to another 1930s-style slump than generally understood.”

    “The BIS, the ultimate bank of central bankers, pointed to a confluence a worrying signs, citing mass issuance of new-fangled credit instruments, soaring levels of household debt, extreme appetite for risk shown by investors, and entrenched imbalances in the world currency system.”

    “In a thinly-veiled rebuke to the US Federal Reserve, the BIS said central banks were starting to doubt the wisdom of letting asset bubbles build up on the assumption that they could safely be "cleaned up" afterwards - which was more or less the strategy pursued by former Fed chief Alan Greenspan after the dotcom bust.”
    See: “BIS warns of Great Depression dangers from credit spree”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/2811081/BIS-warns-of-Great-Depression-dangers-from-credit-spree.html

    In 2008, the BIS again warned of the potential of another Great Depression, “complex credit instruments, a strong appetite for risk, rising levels of household debt and long-term imbalances in the world currency system, all form part of the loose monetarist policy that could result in another Great Depression.”
    http://www.bankingtimes.co.uk/09062008-central-bank-body-warns-of-great-depression/


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    Aug 03, 2009 1:48 AM GMT
    In 2008, the BIS also said: “The current market turmoil is without precedent in the postwar period. With a significant risk of recession in the US, compounded by sharply rising inflation in many countries, fears are building that the global economy might be at some kind of tipping point,” and that all central banks have done “has been to put off the day of reckoning.”
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/markets/2792450/BIS-slams-central-banks-warns-of-worse-crunch-to-come.html

    In 2008, the BIS warned of a collapse in global lending:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/3685332/BIS-warns-of-collapse-in-global-lending.html

    Recently, the BIS reported that: “International bank lending dropped again in the first quarter and shrank by over $6 trillion in the year to the end of March as the financial crisis restrained credit.”
    http://www.reuters.com/article/usDollarRpt/idUSLN25774820090723

    In late June of 2009, the BIS reported that as a result of stimulus packages, it has only seen “limited progress” and that, “the prospects for growth are at risk,” and further, “stimulus measures won't be able to gain traction, and may only lead to a temporary pickup in growth.” Ultimately, “A fleeting recovery could well make matters worse.”
    http://v1.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090629.wcentralbanks0629/BNStory/HEATHER+SCOFFIELD/

    In August of 2009, it was reported that, “THE Obama administration will consider dishing out more money to rein in unemployment,” and that, “Treasury secretary Tim Geithner also conceded tax hikes could be on the agenda as the government worked to bring its huge recovery-related deficits under control.”

    US unemployment is at 9.5 percent, with about 15 million Americans out of work.

    http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,25873672-664,00.html




    Become a "political atheist." Stop bowing down to politicians and blindly following them.

    They are not there to help you. They are there to help those they serve: Wall Street and multinational banks and corporations.

    That includes Obama. All that is needed as proof of this is the people who make up his economic advisers and cabinet.

    Think for yourselves. Don't buy into the hype, because that's all it is.
    Obama will NOT save you.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Aug 03, 2009 12:35 PM GMT
    Time to start organic gardening!
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    Aug 03, 2009 12:45 PM GMT
    You don't like the way the country is being run LEAVE no is holding a gun to your hand to stay. If you think you could better at running th country the run in 2012. I for never thought the our current president is going and would be able to rescue or fix our current economy in what 8 months! It took 8 years for it get in the shape that it's in.

    You go on and about what could happen what are you suggessions on fixing the problem hmmmm my guess is NO!

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    Aug 03, 2009 4:09 PM GMT
    this makes sense. many people in the states are unwilling to the consider the possibility of the government functioning independently according to its own needs and desires. They keep stuff from us, we know what they want us to know, but its starting to become more obvious.. and we are playing denile

    the government of the US has been lying and cheating since before it was established what makes you think that it has changed its ways now?

    we stole our country from indians... we blew our own trade towers for the patriot act
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    Aug 03, 2009 5:16 PM GMT
    Jprichva:

    honestly, anyone you disagree with becomes a "right-wing nut" or a "loonie." Im sorry, but, you're wrong. Not everyone who doesn't share the same opinion as you is an idiot or "crank."

    Celente's record is proof of its own validity. I predicted the current crisis 3 years ago... and made wise investments then, but when i was telling people three years ago that we are headed for a great depression, people would laugh because the economy was "fine" and i was seen as a "crank."

    The general trend of de-industrializing the United States and the developed world has been in the works for sometime... the US has no manufacturing base, total debt consumer based economy, nothing is produced, etc... the economic crisis will naturally accelerate this. It's not hard to believe, it's common sense. Take a look at what happened to Argentina overnight in 2002. now... globalize that. is it really so hard to imagine, or... is denial really that strong a force?

    and excuse me for being rude, but you always resort to the "you're a crank/conspiracy theorist" bullshit, and really, let's be honest: those are just clever little labels to apply to someone in an attempt to dismantle their argument without actually proving anything to the contrary.


    Ducky45:

    i'm sorry, but im not entirely sure your post was even readable, let alone how to respond to it.

    oh, except for the fact that i should say i can't "leave" the US, because I'm not American and i dont live there. also, isn't that the same exact thing that (to steal a term from jprichva) "right wing nuts" said when people disagreed with the wars (which are now "good wars" because they are "Obama's wars")? "if you dont like it, git out!" ... yeah, THOSE are the principles upon which America was founded... if you disagree with the government, LEAVE!

    hahaha. oh my. the lack of historical understanding of one's own nation disturbs me.

    but ya, it's probably good to go back to sleep and be blind Obama supporters. i hear having blind faith in political leaders ALWAYS works out well. history is nothing if not proof of this.

    and maybe you're right, it has ONLY been 8 months. you shouldn't criticize a president for the things they say and do while in office, you should just wait it out, have faith and "hope" that everything they do is the right thing to do because they "care about you" and then only criticize them when they leave office. that way, you can avoid confronting reality! that way, everyone wins, especially the ones who are raping the nation's wealth for their own selfish benefit, the country is run by banksters, and Obama is their "inside man." and you think he is there to help you? wake up.
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Aug 03, 2009 7:13 PM GMT
    the simple truth is, we are losing jobs through technology and movement offshore, while our population through all means, is increasing, ultimately our productivity/tax revenues will not support our spending. capitalism as system is doomed to fail down the road, for the same reasons, finite resources, and increasing population with decreasing jobs to be had by growing numbers seeking them.

    i don't have an answer, but, i can see the the bridge is out in front of us, how we can build a new one, is for higher IQ's than mine.
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    Aug 03, 2009 7:29 PM GMT
    I'm suffreing from jet lag here so I can't say all of this is going to be coherant....but I've not been as hard on the old boy, our President, of late primarily because I moved quickly to shield against any damage he might inflict.

    Down the road we can look back and say, "gee, who would have thunk."

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    Aug 03, 2009 8:01 PM GMT
    We didn't vote to change the Republic, we voted to change Washington, there was so much talk about changing Washington. We wanted the lies, corruption, and childish “But they started it” games to end, Obama talked a lot about how he wanted to do away with the old politics such as that. Instead we now see that things have only gotten worse and that the “change” the political elite think we wanted, was the transition to a system based on entitlements, handouts, and bigger government, not to mention that whole “But they started it” mentality is still there. Its insult upon injury and a testament to just how out of touch with the common man our two parties have become.

    To some people, it feels like a sudden hostile takeover. Its not. This has been coming for a long time, and has been moved down the field by both parties, the only real question was which one would put us into the end zone first.

    When the Republicans were in charge, there was a lot of crazy spending going on, When they lost control and the Democrats gained it, the spending didn't stop. When Obama became president, instead of closing the door to big government, the door that Bush cracked opened. Obama kicked it opened and is going right on through it, and spending has become even crazier. I feel the country is becoming weaker, and in a time where we need to be strong, especially with all that is going on, that has been cooking for quite some time, and now is boiling over the pot.

    I'm sick of the excuses “He inherited this mess” Yes he did, lots of presidents inherit messes from their predecessors. A real leader rolls up his sleeves, talks about what he's gonna do to fix it, and actually does it. and not keep dwelling in the past, blaming the last guy when things get tough. And I remember Obama saying something about not looking back, but forward, but I keep hearing blame, blame, and more blame. As for the other excuse “Oh he's not been president for that long”.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that where the country is headed, isn't exactly what we want or more importantly need, especially in these times. Most Americans are convinced that the country is on the wrong track, and know something just doesn't feel right, but they don't know how to describe it. But just because you may not know exactly what your gut is saying, doesn't mean what you're feeling is wrong. Its not, something hasn't been right for a very long time, and both parties are at fault. And the people who are increasingly becoming angered. Most of them do not identify as Rep, or Dem, but are independents, who've made the election I might add, and then some of them are Dem, and Rep, all of which do not feel they are getting what they voted for, or hoped for.

    People, Americans. Need to stop, look at themselves, and everything going on around, be honest, make tough decisions... The right decisions, and stop being so concerned with getting people to like you, drop the silly little ideologies, that do nothing but cause limitation, and stunt the growth of real positive solutions,and keep the division going. Most of all people need to use some damn common sense.

    Sure its awesome, someone who looks like him, is where he is, because as I've said before it says a lot about the country, how far we've come, which should make us all proud. But I think people got way too caught up in the race garbage. Those who are questioning his leadership, and direction of the country, and voted for him, didn't have the common sense to really look at what the man was about. Look at his associations, a man's associations say a lot about his character which is very important. Instead those again who lacked common sense, and honesty wrote it off as the other side trying paint him as some big evil liberal who wants to destroy the country, and some ignored it.

    Yeah we have a lot of bad politicians out there, and I'm not saying Obama is evil, because I don't believe he is. I just feel he's not the right man for the job, his actions thus far show so, and I'm not surprised at where he's leading the country because his associations basically said it all. Part of why we get poor leaders, is because we have so many people who have poor judgment, and again no common sense, who elect them.

    That's just my feelings of how things are going, and I know I'm not the only one feeling/seeing that. Nice post MeOhMy, and don't let people like JP bother you, that's what they do, and why I consider people like him to be irrelevant. They only consider you smart, if you agree with them, he, and all like him are jokes, and part of the problem.
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    Aug 03, 2009 8:20 PM GMT
    Rad_d81:

    I couldn't agree more, very well articulated.

    Party politics and the "left-right" paradigm are merely ways to divide people against each other while the elite on both sides, (which are, in fact, the SAME elite, and serve the same interests) plunder the country for their own benefit.

    Politics is theatre.

    Truth has no ideology. It is neither left nor right, it is simply truth.


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    Aug 03, 2009 8:25 PM GMT
    MeOhMy saidRad_d81:

    I couldn't agree more, very well articulated.

    Party politics and the "left-right" paradigm are merely ways to divide people against each other while the elite on both sides, (which are, in fact, the SAME elite, and serve the same interests) plunder the country for their own benefit.

    Politics is theatre.

    Truth has no ideology. It is neither left nor right, it is simply truth.




    Yep, The corrupt politicians on both sides, love it when Americans, sit back and fight each other with the left/right garbage, because it blinds everyone, of the bad things the corrupt do, and allows them to continue on, business as usual. The good politicians on both sides get smeared, and destroyed, and Americans hung up on an ideology, which kills all original thought, and honesty, believe the lies, and continue the division.
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    Aug 03, 2009 8:36 PM GMT
    Me-

    What is your solution...all you are doing is complaining...that's it. I for one don't have a solution because I don't have the data in fron of me that he has, know what I'm saying.

    I don't envy any sitting president given the crap that they have to put up with. Our current president especially his main concern is when and where sone lunatic would try harm him.

    I can only hope that the current adminstration does not repeat the same mistakes of the past.

    A lot of people were looking at Obama as our savior the great black&white knight. He's just a man trying to sort through a MESS that he took on.

    I'm willing to give our President eh a year or two for President Obama to turn things around and if they don't vote him out as we should do any president.

    The last time I checked the housing market is stablizing and just last week the market ended with a high.

    All I'm saying it is way to early tro start preaching failure. I recall them saying that things were going to get worse before it gets better.


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    Aug 03, 2009 8:36 PM GMT
    Former Georgetown Professor Carroll Quigley, Bill Clinton's mentor, who also taught at Princeton and Harvard, former consultant to the U.S. Department of Defense, the U.S. Navy, the Smithsonian Institution, and the House Select Committee on Astronautics and Space Exploration in the 1950s, wrote the monumental Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time.

    It's worth quoting him on the two-party system:

    "The chief problem of American political life for along time has been how to make the two Congressional parties more national and international. The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shifts in policy."

    (p. 1247-48 )

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    Aug 03, 2009 8:57 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Rad_d81 said That's just my feelings of how things are going, and I know I'm not the only one feeling/seeing that. Nice post MeOhMy, and don't let people like JP bother you, that's what they do, and why I consider people like him to be irrelevant. They only consider you smart, if you agree with them, he, and all like him are jokes, and part of the problem.

    The problem? You're not "part" of the problem, you ARE the problem. You have this sort of fake-populist bullshit act going on, your "facts" are completely wrong, your analysis is idiotic, and you call me a joke and irrelevant?

    Here are some facts, warrior boy: Polls show that the number of people who think the country is moving in the right direction is going UP, not down. True, no doubt all the people you hang out with probably think like you do, but that's not exactly a scientific sample.

    And as far as you being "neither left nor right", why do you keep repeating the right-wing lies and garbage? We know Obama by his "associations"? And what associations are those?

    Not only are you stupid--and I mean deeply stupid---you're a liar. Some warrior. Talk about people who are irrelevant.


    YAWN, again with the stupid stuff eh? Damn you really love to prove me right don't you? Why am I not surprised you know nothing about the people Obama had associated himself with, not to mention, has put a lot of people who share the same ideologies, as those he's associated with, in high positions of power, AKA the Czars. I'm very quite sure someone as limited, and dishonest as you knows nothing about these people he's given a lot of power to, I bet you don't even care, and would turn a blind eye to it, that's what people like you do, no surprise. Don't be so damn lazy, do a little honest research.

    Yes people like you are part of the problem, all of what you continue to say, I've heard it all before, and know it to be untrue. People like you do not deal in facts, only your distorted, misguided ideologies, what you've said is just even more proof on how out of touch people like you are. The only polls, that give truth to what you've said, are polls on sites where everyone shares your very same misguided views.. Irrelevant

    You continually trying to call me "right-wing" again is proof on how dishonest you are, and I'm gonna have to say, unintelligent. As I've never praised either side, and call both out. I wasn't on this site during Bush's time, had I been, you would have seen me call his administration out, over things I've mentioned in past post of mine I was against during the Bush admin. Right now the Democrats are in full power, so now my attention is on them, and I'm not pleased, and yeah you're gonna hear me call em out, and if you don't like it, then don't read my post little man.

    Again all you do is get your panties in a knot whenever someone challenges what you believe, like MeOhMy said, not everyone who disagrees with you is stupid, and quite frankly I find people who do sit back and call those stupid, who don't share their views, are ignorant, and narrow minded beyond hell.

    You sound like a raving, hateful, lunatic, unintelligent, and dishonest... Basically you're what I call a pathetic, narrow minded, blind, loquacious, virulent, cunt, who is yes part of the problem, not the solution, now go play in some traffic you deranged pitiful homunculus.... Dismissed..

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    Aug 03, 2009 9:05 PM GMT
    Ducky:

    I also recall these being the same people who said that "the essentials of the economy are fine", or that they "never saw it coming."

    Haven't they lost ALL credibility by now? Why do people continue to believe the lies these people spew?

    Why on earth would anyone believe them when they say, "we're through the worst," or, "recovery is ahead," or "it'll be over by 2010," when these are the same people who have been NOTHING but wrong.

    People DID see what was coming. People DID point it out. These people who are now saying "everything is fine" are the same ones who said "nothing is wrong" before everything went wrong.

    They lie.

    The market is up based upon speculation.

    Something is deeply wrong with an economic system in which 600,000 people lose their jobs every month, where nothing is produced, and yet, the stock market can go up. This is a false and illusory, speculative-driven upswing which is only temporary, and will only lead to a harder fall.

    Read the links to the reports by the Bank for International Settlements (BIS). This is literally the leading financial organization in the world, the central bank to the central banks, where they all meet up once every two months to decide international monetary policy. Look what the BIS is saying, and has said. "Any upswing is temporary and will only lead to a worse situation in the long run." It warns about massive inflation and that the stimulus packages are essentially going to make things worse.


    As for solutions:

    To find a good solution, one must first identify the real problems.

    I may just be "complaining", but, other than through discussion, debate, criticism and challenging perceived notions, how are people supposed to figure out the causes of the crisis? By believing the ones who caused it?

    To make an accurate prescription, one must first make an accurate diagnosis. Otherwise, whatever is prescribed will not only fail in solving the problem, or curing the ailment, but in fact, could make it worse.

    I see the solutions being taken internationally, and they scare me, because they are being undertaken by the same individuals that created the crisis in the first place, and they serve the same interests that are not only benefiting from the crisis, but caused it. The trend is in internationalizing monetary policy and economic management.

    My advice would be to go in the opposite direction.

    Nationalize the monetary system. Take the power to print the nation's currency, control interest rates, and make monetary decisions away from the Federal Reserve and put it into the hands of the Treasury, a government agency, which will "technically" put monetary policy in the hands of the government, and thus be accountable to the people, with at least a degree of oversight.

    Start producing goods again. Repeal NAFTA and end the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America (SPP), bring back the manufacturing base. Start producing new things, put money into innovation, not renovation. Stop rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    The answer is with the people. Bring back the mom and pop store and throw out Wal-Mart. Time to start growing your own food, turn lawns into gardens. Buy gold, buy storable food.

    Ultimately, i have to admit, I don't think there is any way to stop the crisis from coming at this point. All you can try to do is soften the blow.

    To me, this requires a total overhaul of the monetary system, in terms of democratizing it. Also, leave the internationalization of economic management in the past. That caused the crisis, it wont solve it. Leave the World Bank, the IMF, and the WTO. These serve entrenched international financial interests. Not American, not Canadian, not African, European, Asian or individual people's interests. They serve multinational banks and corporations.

    Pull out of the Bank for International Settlements (BIS), which is a key factor is democratizing the monetary system. Dismantle the central banking system. Government agencies should control monetary policy, not banks.

    However, because I feel that there is no stopping what is coming, nor would any of my suggestions EVER be undertaken, i think the real answers lie in the community.

    In certain places in Argentina following the World Bank/IMF destruction of their currency and economy, people got together to create their own currency, and traded among themselves. This also is the case in certain African villages, where people will still exchange currencies long out of print, simply because they give it the value that they alone attribute to it. They collectively agree that it has worth, so they exchange among each other. Regardless of what the central bank or international monetary system dictate.

    Controlling currency is the main principle here. The people must control the printing and issuing and value of a currency. Debt is slavery, so get out of debt. Local communities should take their destiny into their own hands.

    Move more towards local governance and local economics, that way, the people in the community have a more direct relationship with their political-economy and society, and also they can actually have a say in the direction it takes.

    I don't know what "the solution" is. These are ideas. But I know what isn't the solution, and that's what's being done. The solution is in the people, i know that much, NOT the leaders. the people have to take their own fate into their own hands, and stop believing those that have lied us into a depression, lied us into wars, lied us into internationalizing governance and economic control, lied us into the mess we're in. They have lost all credibility, they are void of moral grounding, they are vacant of political ingenuity and integrity.

    Unfortunately, the trend is going in the opposite direction. Everything is internationalizing and power and authority are being further removed from the people of the world and further entrenched into the hands of an increasingly smaller international elite.

    The answer is not "out there" it's in your own hands and your own mind. Each individual must find the answer for themselves.

    The answer is the individual.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2009 9:09 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Rad_d81 said You sound like a raving, hateful, lunatic, unintelligent, and dishonest... Basically you're what I call a pathetic, narrow minded, blind, loquacious, virulent, cunt, who is yes part of the problem, not the solution, now go play in some traffic you deranged pitiful homunculus.... Dismissed..

    Besides being stupid, you have quite the potty mouth, warrior boy.

    You are one twisted piece of shit. Go dismiss yourself. And by "dismiss" I mean "fuck".



    Jeez can you try to not sound like a silly 15 year old high school chick? I mean really how old are you? Its true, maturity, and wisdom aren't always age related, you're living proof.

    I'm only a piece of shit, because I don't subscribe to your dishonest, and misguided bullshit. But trust me, a creature as low as yourself doesn't offend me in the slightest. I use people like you as an example on how not to be, now make yourself useful, and get to playing in that traffic like I told you. I will admit the potty mouth bit gave me a little chuckle, oh the "warrior boy" thing was cute too ha


    And don't talk to me, unless you have something intelligent, and important to say. Calling me stupid because I don't agree with you, or calling me twisted, or weird, because of my views on male male relationships, is way off the topic, and doesn't make you look good not one bit, it only shows your defeat, anger, and desperation. Oh wait I forgot, that's how morons hung up on an ideology react, when they get defeated..

    I also saw you edited your little post to "I'm bored with you now, so you're on ignore" meaning you have nothing of importance, or intelligence to say.. You said you were ignoring me last time, please be a man, stick to your word, and make it so this time.

    ^_^

  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Aug 03, 2009 9:29 PM GMT
    Rad_d81 saidWe didn't vote to change the Republic, we voted to change Washington.....


    ...That's just my feelings of how things are going, and I know I'm not the only one feeling/seeing that. Nice post MeOhMy, and don't let people like JP bother you, that's what they do, and why I consider people like him to be irrelevant. They only consider you smart, if you agree with them, he, and all like him are jokes, and part of the problem.



    Great post, Rad, and once again I couldn't agree with you more (though, admittedly, I'm not sure I agree with your current choice of haircut...LOL)

    Yes, the luster of the Obama victory wore off shockingly sooner than I would have ever imagined. Still, I want him to succeed, and I want to have faith that he knows what he is doing and eventually will succeed. That said, so far I think we've pretty much been delivered a mixed bag and it's anyone's guess where we are actually headed now --- but at least some voters who were seeing Obama as the Messiah-like be all/end all have now been given a very large dose of reality.
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    Aug 03, 2009 9:33 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Rad_d81 saidWe didn't vote to change the Republic, we voted to change Washington.....


    ...That's just my feelings of how things are going, and I know I'm not the only one feeling/seeing that. Nice post MeOhMy, and don't let people like JP bother you, that's what they do, and why I consider people like him to be irrelevant. They only consider you smart, if you agree with them, he, and all like him are jokes, and part of the problem.



    Great post, Rad, and once again I couldn't agree with you more (though, admittedly, I'm not sure I agree with your current choice of haircut...LOL)

    Yes, the luster of the Obama victory wore off shockingly sooner than I would have ever imagined. Still, I want him to succeed, and I want to have faith that he knows what he is doing and eventually will succeed. That said, so far I think we've pretty much been delivered a mixed bag and it's anyone's guess where we are actually headed now --- but at least some voters who were seeing Obama as the Messiah-like be all/end all have now been given a very large dose of reality.


    Yeah I thought it was pretty gross how this sycophantic "reporter" said he was "kind of like god"

    haha my brother gave me the haircut cause I had lost a bet with him... I looked like a bad guy from Mad Max, I had fun with it though haha
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2009 10:38 PM GMT
    Well, MeOhMy, I'm sure impressed that you would devote this much time and energy to something you believe in. Yes, the only answer is the individual. To change anything, we must begin by changing ourselves.
    We have the world as it is, immensely complex, governed in part by corrupt individuals, and largely ruled by multinational corporations. Unfortunately there was no golden age, Hesiod notwithstanding, and the world has pretty much always been run by the wealthy and powerful, whether Pharoahs, Roman proconsuls, feudal barons, or the military- industrial complex. Except for the periods when it was run by religious zealots or mad Nazis.
    Small people have to bind together to have any chance of success, and in the USA we call it the two-party system. The poor and oppressed formed a coalition which took over the Democratic Party in part this last year, and if we keep fighting we have our best chance of reforming some parts of the system.
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    Aug 03, 2009 10:43 PM GMT
    antelope said The poor and oppressed formed a coalition which took over the Democratic Party in part this last year, and if we keep fighting we have our best chance of reforming some parts of the system.


    If only that were true. If only ...
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    Aug 03, 2009 11:24 PM GMT
    I am sick of all politicians at this point. Not a one of them knows what the hell they are doing. They spend our money like it grows on trees, and spoil themselves with lavish lifestyles on our dime while others suffer. I don't blame one party or the other, I blame both. Obama has proven a huge disappointment. He is no different than any other President other than the fact that he is black. Good for America for proving we can see beyond color, but bad for America that we let ourselves be swooned by a very talented con man.
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    Aug 03, 2009 11:26 PM GMT
    Tapper said
    antelope said The poor and oppressed formed a coalition which took over the Democratic Party in part this last year, and if we keep fighting we have our best chance of reforming some parts of the system.


    If only that were true. If only ...


    My sentiments exactly...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2009 11:34 PM GMT
    I'm far less interested in people who spend all of their time predicting the future - good or bad - than people who are actively focused on fixing the present.

    Many of us who weren't brain-dead, delusional and/or actively living well beyond our means saw this coming a long time ago not because we are PhD's in Macroeconomics but because common sense told us that the wave would ultimately crest. I don't really give a shit who predicted it or who didn't - the fact is that we're here and it's a mess and the solution is neither going to be easy nor painless.

    Instead of having the argument that you're having - which is equivalent to arguing whether Whitney or Mariah is the better of the two - what are your recommendations for solutions? What are you doing - DOING, not saying - to move us forward? Right. Nothing.

    While you bitch and moan about politicians, mimicking their behaviors (pointing fingers at the other guy, undermining everyone/everything based on party affiliation, working to ensure your own success while at the same time hoping for everyone else's failure) has a lot more to do with the utter clusterfuck that is our current state than anything Obama has done or will ever do while sitting in the Oval Office.

    People in this country want Obama and the rest of Washington to give us a date where it'll all be better just like they wanted a date for a withdrawal from Iraq. While we've grown fat and lazy and entitled and easily manipulated from our own ignorance, we've also gotten very, very impatient. It is not Obama's job - nor was it ever - to fix all of our problems. If a fraction of the people who were surfing the wave before it crested would bail THEMSELVES out (which begins by taking personal responsibility for their own irresponsible choices) we'd be on the right track.
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    Aug 03, 2009 11:41 PM GMT
    Agreed. America has become a bunch of finger pointing lazy cry babies who live beyond their means then want to blame everybody but themselves