Is sexaul orientation inborn or a choice?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 06, 2009 2:44 PM GMT
    I think it would be clear that sexaul orientation is inborn. Sexual orientation is inborn like my gentic code: I do not have any choice in it. One can choose to repress one's orientation but it is still there. Someone may not have a choice in what nation one was born or the religion one was rasied in, but these things are not inborn. Once someone is older he is able to move to another country or leave the religion he was raised for another. It is not that uncommon for people to leave the religion they were raised in.

    I bring this question up because a guy in another forum suggests that changing one's sexual orienation is the same thing as changing the religious traditional one happened to be born in (see below). I know leaving a religious faith one was rasied can be a difficult decision for some people to make. Sharing the same church with one's family may provide a person a sense of connection to their upbring and family. Several people, however, leave the faith inwhich they were rasied. A person may come to realize that the tradition no longer hold any meaning for them, or they may grow to disagree with teachings of that tradition so they leave it. What that being said, to equate changing one's sexual orienation with changing the religious traditional of one's unbrings seems stupid to me. And to think it was a Bi guy that suggested it.

    I am Bi, I am Catholic. I wish people would stop telling gay and BI guys that worship God in The Catholic Church to stop being catholic or change religions...I have an idea, for all the gay atheist or protestants out there. If you think it is so easy for us to stop going to Catholic Church, then how about you change your sexual orientation and stop being gay! It is the same thing! I am Catholic and so are millions of other Americans. Accept us for who we are! I am tired of seeing anti-catholic bigotry!

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    Aug 06, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
    it is definitely not a choice, I would have chosen to be straight a few years ago and avoided a whole slew of problems.
  • Timbales

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    Aug 06, 2009 2:52 PM GMT
    oh god, not again
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    Aug 06, 2009 2:57 PM GMT
    My sense of that quote is that this person DOES think that sexual orientation is inborn, and cannot be changed. He was using that example to illustrate why he cannot change from being a Catholic, either.

    But whatever his meaning, my own view is that sexual orientation is indeed inborn. I'm not sure if it's either genetic, or as a result of in utero conditions, both being researched today. But when a child is born, his or her orientation is already determined. Environment doesn't cause it, but may be a factor in determining the age at which it manifests itself.
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    Aug 06, 2009 2:57 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidoh god, not again

    Both succinct and very funny!
  • jdsnipaz

    Posts: 41

    Aug 06, 2009 2:58 PM GMT
    Agreed, it's not a choice. I think the people who really need this lecture are the Right-wing Christian Conservatives...icon_sad.gif
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    Aug 06, 2009 2:59 PM GMT

    What?!? That's a ridiculous comparison.

    "I bring this question up because a guy in another forum suggests that changing one's sexual orienation is the same thing as changing the religious traditional one happened to be born in (see below)"

    and reading this didn't help, "If you think it is so easy for us to stop going to Catholic Church, then how about you change your sexual orientation and stop being gay! It is the same thing! I am Catholic and so are millions of other Americans. Accept us for who we are! I am tired of seeing anti-catholic bigotry!"

    It's not the same thing - we can't believe we've had to post that, much less type it.

    Let let he is without sin cast the first friggin' stone. What about catholic bigotry? Incidentally, Bill and I were both raised catholic. Neither of us are - I left the faith in my teens - gladly. Bill left at about the same age.

    As a bisexual, he can flip back and forth between men and women, so likely doesn't understand what it is to be hardwired for one gender.

    Actually, changing religions is better compared to bisexuality; in both scenarios you choose..... icon_lol.gif

    But lastly, we think that comparing religion to sexual orientation is a
    LOAD O CRAP.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:07 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidMy sense of that quote is that this person DOES think that sexual orientation is inborn, and cannot be changed. He was using that example to illustrate why he cannot change from being a Catholic, either.

    But whatever his meaning, my own view is that sexual orientation is indeed inborn. I'm not sure if it's either genetic, or as a result of in utero conditions, both being researched today. But when a child is born, his or her orientation is already determined. Environment doesn't cause it, but may be a factor in determining the age at which it manifests itself.


    He said that changing one's sexual orientation is the same thing as changing one's church tradition. Maybe he thinks one's church preferrence is inborn? To be honest I don't know what he is claiming.


    "If you think it is so easy for us to stop going to Catholic Church, then how about you change your sexual orientation and stop being gay! It is the same thing!"
  • zakariahzol

    Posts: 2241

    Aug 06, 2009 3:09 PM GMT
    I choose to be gay so I can be bully, call a faggot, deny the right to get married, can ridicule and be miserable all my life.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:15 PM GMT
    Other than as a strictly academic discussion I am not sure it matters. The idea of choice in sexuality is typically brought up by people who want to deny gays and lesbians their rights. The argument is that if people choose to do something wrong we will deprive them of rights. Well, it doesn't matter if it is a choice you don't have some right to go and deprive people of rights. To me arguing about choice or not is a bit of a red herring. We should be focused on the rights aspect of the discussion.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:15 PM GMT
    I wish people wouldn't use the nature vs. nurture argument. People should be able to make choices about their bodies and it should be nobody else's business, genetics or not.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:28 PM GMT
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32304475/ns/health-mental_health/

    Psychologists nix gay-to-straight therapy
    Association slams technique that seeks to change sexual orientation

    updated 4:33 p.m. CT, Wed., Aug 5, 2009
    NEW YORK - The American Psychological Association declared Wednesday that mental health professionals should not tell gay clients they can become straight through therapy or other treatments.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:36 PM GMT
    MonkeyPuck saidOther than as a strictly academic discussion I am not sure it matters. The idea of choice in sexuality is typically brought up by people who want to deny gays and lesbians their rights. The argument is that if people choose to do something wrong we will deprive them of rights. Well, it doesn't matter if it is a choice you don't have some right to go and deprive people of rights. To me arguing about choice or not is a bit of a red herring. We should be focused on the rights aspect of the discussion.


    I agree with you. It dosn't really matter (outside of academic reasons) what leads to sexaul orientation. For what ever reason I have my attractions and I want to have to right to act on them. I don't know why I prefer certain foods/flavors, but what difference should that make in my right to eat what I desire. How absurd would it be to tell someone you choose to desire extremely bitter food and that is not normal therefore you should be denied the right to eat bitter food.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:39 PM GMT
    Some things never change...
  • outdoorjunkie

    Posts: 118

    Aug 06, 2009 3:43 PM GMT
    Mom to me: We're so worried for you. This is just something you're going through! You'll see that life will present you with all kinds of difficult choices you'll have to make. This is one of the most difficult. But you CAN choose differently!

    Me (at 19): Mom? Have you ever known me NOT to be gay? I mean, really?

    Mom: ...

    Me: Yup.

    [Author's note: my mother, father and I now have a fantastic relationship, they love my partner, and life is peachy dandy. But seriously, guys, I've been gay forEVER. I have the carton of My Little Pony's to prove it.]

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:52 PM GMT
    There it was. "Career Day"

    I was standing at the table trying to make my choice, and the old lady sitting behind the table said to me,
    "Well, since you've already chosen to be white, your next choice has to be something that works against you socially."

    I chose gay. At least they had good clothes.

    These decisions are so annoying.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 06, 2009 3:59 PM GMT
    Brandon_ said
    indeed.jpg


    Fancom hack!

    Go for the real thing:
    Teal'c
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    Aug 06, 2009 4:01 PM GMT
    The only choice is to worry whether it's a choice or not.
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    Aug 06, 2009 4:01 PM GMT
    phemt saidI think it would be clear that sexaul orientation is inborn. Sexual orientation is inborn like my gentic code: I do not have any choice in it.



    So if you already know this - why post this freaking ramble? Pointless then don't you think?icon_evil.gif

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    Aug 06, 2009 4:19 PM GMT
    Before I was old enough for Kindergarten a neighborhood mother had a small day care I went to. I had spent all day watching Mary Poppins and Bed Knobs and Broomsticks. When my mother came to pick me up I ran over to her and excitedly exclaimed "Mommy, I know what I want to be when I grow up."
    "What is that dear?"
    "A woman!"

    I was the gay boy sperm running away from the straight bully sperms.
    I was the lipstick lesbian egg that moved out of the uterus that month.

    If my brain was capable, I would remember fabulous cocktail parties in the womb that would make Andy Warhol's look like Norman Rockwell's.
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    Aug 06, 2009 4:21 PM GMT
    LOL


    Munching... that's great stuff and the stuff dreams are made of icon_wink.gif


    Soldier on my brother, soldier on... icon_biggrin.gif
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Aug 06, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidBefore I was old enough for Kindergarten a neighborhood mother had a small day care I went to. I had spent all day watching Mary Poppins and Bed Knobs and Broomsticks. When my mother came to pick me up I ran over to her and excitedly exclaimed "Mommy, I know what I want to be when I grow up."
    "What is that dear?"
    "A woman!"

    I was the gay boy sperm running away from the straight bully sperms.
    I was the lipstick lesbian egg that moved out of the uterus that month.

    If my brain was capable, I would remember fabulous cocktail parties in the womb that would make Andy Warhol's look like Norman Rockwell's.


    Munching Zombie as a child: stewie-family-guy.jpg
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Aug 06, 2009 4:28 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidBefore I was old enough for Kindergarten a neighborhood mother had a small day care I went to. I had spent all day watching Mary Poppins and Bed Knobs and Broomsticks. When my mother came to pick me up I ran over to her and excitedly exclaimed "Mommy, I know what I want to be when I grow up."
    "What is that dear?"
    "A woman!"




    So what's holding you back now? icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 06, 2009 4:30 PM GMT
    At the risk of sounding arrogant or pissing people off, this debate is a good example of what happens when religion sticks its' noise into areas where it does not belong. There is no scientific evidence that I am aware of that has proven that sexual orientation of any kind is a choice. The only choice is whether you act on your desires. The sexual desires themselves are not a choice. Anyone who claims to have been "cured" of same-sex attractions should be firmly placed in the same league as those who sell snake oil, ponzi schemes, and swampland in Utah.
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    Aug 06, 2009 4:33 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA said
    phemt saidI think it would be clear that sexaul orientation is inborn. Sexual orientation is inborn like my gentic code: I do not have any choice in it.



    So if you already know this - why post this freaking ramble? Pointless then don't you think?icon_evil.gif



    If it is so pointless why did you respond. I find a lot of forum topics here pointless and know what I do - I don't respond to them!
    Based on the number of guys responding it seems people are finding reasons to speak on this forum topic.