Don't be nasty about our National Health Service

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 13, 2009 9:16 PM GMT
    A brilliant surgeon fixed my crooked spine.

    And a brilliant knee surgeon fixed my slipped knee cap.

    It all came out of the taxes I pay and I didn't have to wait for the operations either.

    The National Health Service in Britain does work and is free a point of access meaning people can get on with their lives without worrying about being bankrupted by hospital bills.

    My pennysworth.
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    Aug 13, 2009 10:50 PM GMT
    Glad you had good experiences. Is that generally the case in the UK? Is it true or not true that people generally have to wait a long time for surgery? (Sounds like you didn't.)

    I'd like to hear more about the health care in UK, France, Canada, etc.

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    Aug 13, 2009 10:54 PM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidGlad you had good experiences. Is that generally the case in the UK? Is it true or not true that people generally have to wait a long time for surgery? (Sounds like you didn't.)

    I'd like to hear more about the health care in UK, France, Canada, etc.



    I have recently been trying to decide whether to go back to live in the USA or in Europe. Having lived in both, having experienced both private health care and a single payer system in several countries, I decided that there was no way I wanted to be under the USA system. The whole health care debate in the USA is a very real issue to me.

    Now, the UK system (as other health services) *does* have its problems: there *can* be waits, there *can* be other issues, but there is no comparison WHATSOEVER between the situation in the USA and the UK. The UK wins hands down every time. No question. No debate. Get real.

    Oh and you know what? Less percentage-wise of the UK tax pound than the US tax dollar goes towards health costs. And what does the US tax payer get for this? Nothing. Yay. Go access to American health care . icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 13, 2009 10:57 PM GMT
    redheadguy saidA brilliant surgeon fixed my crooked spine.

    Here, in the US, a brilliant doctor didn't listen to me when I told him I had pain inbetween my shoulder and arm bone, had me pay up to a thousand dollars worth of tests, then confirmed it was inflamed in between my should and arm bone. All it took was a $5 anabolic steroid shot to completely eradicate the pain within 30 minutes.

    redheadguy said
    And a brilliant knee surgeon fixed my slipped knee cap

    Here, in the US, a brilliant ENT didn't mention he doesn't take my health insurance until AFTER I visited him. For their mistake for not letting me know ahead of time they said they wouldn't charge me. Then I got a bill for the ENT visit three months later and every month ever since.

    redheadguy said
    It all came out of the taxes I pay and I didn't have to wait for the operations either.

    My experience came out of my pocket, despite my shitty health care plan.

    redheadguy said
    The National Health Service in Britain does work and is free a point of access meaning people can get on with their lives without worrying about being bankrupted by hospital bills.

    Yeah, you just have to pay hundreds of dollars every time your doctor makes a mistake in the US. I am being bankrupted by hospital bills here.

    Redheadguy,

    I TOTALLY see your point and agree with you. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2009 12:41 AM GMT
    Our health care coverage problem here is very similar to how the gay community treats each other - it's selfishness on steroids and single issue activism above anyone else's needs or interests. The whole 'I've got mine, fuck you' attitude that gay people have in terms of money, relationships, success, etc. in comparison to gay men who have lost their jobs, insurance, homes, and have no partner to fall back on and no programs to assist them (I guarantee you there are basically zero social service programs left that serve single men with no children). But yet our it appears that so many gay people are hellbent on securing privileges for those who are typically the most well off and affluent, and coupled besides. Why the hell are we doing this?

    Our only difference is that we (for the most part) do not produce children. Otherwise, our drug use, alcoholism, mental health issues, HIV rates, all those things have tremendous costs - those who are newly HIV+ need to be especially worried because while there have been many advances in HIV research, all of those programs could end quickly - once again, those people protesting at those 'town hall meetings' most definitely have no sympathy for us, except possibly for the 'innocent victims' (kids, Africans, black women). What's underneath that grey and white hair is a mind that has hated us for decades and while they are worried about 'death panels' that's exactly what they thought should have happened to us over the past 30 years with all we've had to deal with - in a community that apparently doesn't give a shit about the health of other gay men because it's obvious that many of us knowingly infected each other but, hey, he didn't ask, and why should I have to tell him? I don't even know his name, and I'll never see him again. And those same men dare attend an event called 'Pride'. That's what makes ME sick.
  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Aug 14, 2009 1:09 AM GMT
    Whe have the same free, and accessible, medical care in Canada. I'm a Medical Imaging Technologist here. I have no idea why the rich fat-ass Republicans in the U.S.A. are using scare tactics to turn the tide of public opinion away from letting the poor in the U.S.A. have the same access to doctors and care that they do.
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    Aug 14, 2009 1:15 AM GMT

    What is this???

    An intelligent conversation about health care?? No "death panel" threats? No screaming, no shouting down? No Nazi accusations and swastikas?

    This is so un-American!...
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    Aug 14, 2009 2:53 AM GMT
    canadian health care: wait times can be long when it's not life threatening, or if you are not living in the city where the care needed is offered. personal experience, however, shows that if you have a headache, a doctor will send you to get an MRI right away, and you will get it right away, at one of the best hospital facilities in the world. had an increasingly aggravating headache for two weeks (turned out to be stress related), was sent to the MRI screening next day after visiting a specialist (on referral from a family doctor), got results 3 days later. speaking of family physicians (GP's). there is scarcity in canada, so a lot of people these days rely on walk-in clinics. so there are always pluses and minuses, but i am technically not wealthy, and i am a small business owner, and i am happy i have these services available to me free of charge.
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    Aug 14, 2009 5:33 AM GMT
    what I dont understand is the irrational reactions by the crowds and protesters. I saw this interview on MSNBC that had this guy interviewing one of the protesters. She didn't know what she was talking about.


    And my experiences have been bad. When I was 16 I got in a horrible car accident, and was rushed to the hospital (needed minor surgery). My family can't afford healthcare, so we were stuck with a HUGE bill. Thankfully we won the courtcase and didn't have to pay a dime. But I imagined other people's worse situations (God forbid anyone has that situation). I'd totally go for the socialized healthcare. The downside: most people have the "fuck them I have my own problems" mentality.
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    Aug 14, 2009 5:36 AM GMT
    GFORCE said
    What is this???

    An intelligent conversation about health care?? No "death panel" threats? No screaming, no shouting down? No Nazi accusations and swastikas?

    This is so un-American!...


    And what are you, the thread cheer-leader?
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    Aug 14, 2009 5:57 AM GMT
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidGlad you had good experiences. Is that generally the case in the UK? Is it true or not true that people generally have to wait a long time for surgery? (Sounds like you didn't.)

    I'd like to hear more about the health care in UK, France, Canada, etc.


    To answer from an Australia perspective, who, happen to have a very similar health care system (actually, it's almost exactly the same)

    for general stuff you see a General Practitioner (GP) much like you do in the US, here, you don't have to pay or you can claim payment back through medicare.

    For more serious matters we've the specialists, who you get referred to usually via a GP or other such thing, some of these people can be incredibly busy people, so you will sometimes have to make the appointment a few weeks out, unless it's important, then you can be bumped up to a few hours in some cases.

    This is just for diagnosis however.

    When it comes to cases of surgery, it's based on how needed it is, spinal, Cardiac, Neuro and a few others have the highest waiting lists but also the lest wait times, surgeons generally get through the list fast and it's graded from more important to least important and you are put on that list depending on your condition.

    Then, there are others, again the same things still apply, based on importance of need and they can be a little slower however because the other problems are a lot more common based on the population, so the lists are longer and while the lists move fast unfortunately with the amount of operations constantly being added sometimes the wait can take a while.

    Now, sometimes people have had to wait well over a year here for an operation, however, the thing the news media never tell you is the truth in the severity of the case, usually a year, isn't such a bad amount of time and are for minor problems that aren't crippling, don't really "affect" there life or life style in what is considered a major way and most importantly, they are always monitored by doctors, they are given pain management and if things get worse they are immediately moved up the list.

    More importantly, I was given two scripts the other week, together I paid 10 for both of them, one was an anti-inflammatory and another one to treat reflux, 10 dollars was all it cost me to fill them and for my asthma puffers, I pay 8 dollars.

    I know in the US for the same asthma puffer I use, the cheapest you can buy is 18 dollars (in US dollars) and it's half the capacity of mine.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2009 7:38 AM GMT
    I found this blog entry that is absolutely spot on. To anyone who's heard any of the bullshit in the American media about the NHS, go read it:

    http://potentialandexpectations.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/this-americans-experience-of-britains-healthcare-system/
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2009 7:57 AM GMT
    TigerTim saidI found this blog entry that is absolutely spot on. To anyone who's heard any of the bullshit in the American media about the NHS, go read it:

    http://potentialandexpectations.wordpress.com/2009/08/13/this-americans-experience-of-britains-healthcare-system/

    Thats a good read!
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    Aug 14, 2009 8:30 AM GMT
    lilTanker said
    LittleDudeWithMuscles saidGlad you had good experiences. Is that generally the case in the UK? Is it true or not true that people generally have to wait a long time for surgery? (Sounds like you didn't.)

    I'd like to hear more about the health care in UK, France, Canada, etc.


    To answer from an Australia perspective, who, happen to have a very similar health care system (actually, it's almost exactly the same)

    for general stuff you see a General Practitioner (GP) much like you do in the US, here, you don't have to pay or you can claim payment back through medicare.

    For more serious matters we've the specialists, who you get referred to usually via a GP or other such thing, some of these people can be incredibly busy people, so you will sometimes have to make the appointment a few weeks out, unless it's important, then you can be bumped up to a few hours in some cases.

    This is just for diagnosis however.

    When it comes to cases of surgery, it's based on how needed it is, spinal, Cardiac, Neuro and a few others have the highest waiting lists but also the lest wait times, surgeons generally get through the list fast and it's graded from more important to least important and you are put on that list depending on your condition.

    Then, there are others, again the same things still apply, based on importance of need and they can be a little slower however because the other problems are a lot more common based on the population, so the lists are longer and while the lists move fast unfortunately with the amount of operations constantly being added sometimes the wait can take a while.

    Now, sometimes people have had to wait well over a year here for an operation, however, the thing the news media never tell you is the truth in the severity of the case, usually a year, isn't such a bad amount of time and are for minor problems that aren't crippling, don't really "affect" there life or life style in what is considered a major way and most importantly, they are always monitored by doctors, they are given pain management and if things get worse they are immediately moved up the list.

    More importantly, I was given two scripts the other week, together I paid 10 for both of them, one was an anti-inflammatory and another one to treat reflux, 10 dollars was all it cost me to fill them and for my asthma puffers, I pay 8 dollars.

    I know in the US for the same asthma puffer I use, the cheapest you can buy is 18 dollars (in US dollars) and it's half the capacity of mine.


    Yes but what tanker may of failed to tell you is, He may be on Social Security, and receives a health Care Card, and this puts a cap on his payment for most medications.

    I myself do not receive Social Security, thus have no Health Care Card, thus My medications are no where near as cheap as his, I get no discount.

    Also I have private health Insurance, so my waiting list for medical treatment, operations may only be a week or two. But if you use public health; Public Hospitals, your waiting list can be year or more.

    Also since I don't go and see a GP, that does Bulk Billing, you claim it on medicare, tax payer funded. So I can pay $40:00 AU. just to see a GP.

    Also Over the past & years I have payed about Seventy Thousand on Dental work. Now because I work, and pay taxers, non of this was free for me. But it would of been for a person who claim Social Security, and pays no Taxers. Go figure.

    So I am not my brothers keeper, and he is not mine. So why should I pay for another's medical procedures, when they are not contributing to the country?
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    Aug 14, 2009 11:00 AM GMT
    America had some the best, if not the best, healthcare in the world. That is, until the health insurance co's adopted the same philosophy demonstrated by our friends on Wall Street.

    The insurance, financial and oil/natural gas industries are the ones causing us all of these problems, so why does the government refuse to properly reform them? Why place the burden on the people and not do a thing to cut out the cancer that's eating this country alive?

    I had a part-time job back in college as a Medicare claims adjustor (Nationwide Insurance in Columbus, Ohio). I held that position for four years - from 1989-1993. In that time, I saw the approvals for claims based on patient diagnoses go down the toilet faster than you could possibly imagine. It was comical to watch the private healthcare sector dance the dance with the large insurance carriers and the U.S. govt. I knew that was a smaller symptom of a much larger problem, and that all of us would ultimately pay the price.

    Once again, thanks to the greed and outright ignorance of a select few, the hardworking U.S. taxpayers are going to be forced to swallow the spit of an industry that's been shafting us for years.

    Once again, instead of going after the industry that's causing all of these headaches, Obama and his cronies - in their infinite wisdom - decide to blanket the entire country in shit.

    Regardless of what we're being told now, we will all see a significant increase in our taxes, and we will all see a marked decrease in our country's health and wellness; at least in the short term - say five to 10 years, conservatively. But why should all of us have to undergo this noticeable and painful transition?

    The number of qualified workers in this industry (doctors, nurses) continues to fall, while the number of lazy welfare-ridden trash looking for handouts has been on an incredible rise for over a decade.

    Do the math. It's not pretty, so anyone thinking that the universal approach - as it's being presented to us now - is the panacea for what's ailing healthcare in the U.S. ... you're dead wrong.

    When it comes to fixing the healthcare industry, you cannot throw the baby out with the bath water. You cannot make such a dramatic change to a system that's been this spoiled for so long. It's going to cause a shock to the system that not a single terminally ill American will have the time or strength to handle. Does anyone in here honestly trust the government enough to allow this bill to simply walk through the gates unquestioned?

    And anyone out there thinking that this won't effect them because their current healthcare packages are so great; you're in for a big surprise because this type of reform is going to have a ripple effect through every part of this industry that nobody is prepared to address.

    Death panels and swastikas? Of course not. A swift and noticeable downward spiral in healthcare for the middle class and, for example, those currently undergoing treatment for a terminal illness? Yup.

    *awaits flames*
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 14, 2009 11:33 AM GMT
    mmmm Yes, taxes will go up... Cause DAMN that trillion dollar war was FUCKING CHEAP and paying for health care if gonna be ya know... expensive!

    I mean OMG its going to send the USA broke man.. Totally broke!!

    You also don't know much about government funded health care, yet you seem to be able to judge it pretty well.

    Something you might want to consider is, that sometimes, for something good to happen, you have to suffer for it.

    One last thing, the reason you should pay, why you should suffer for it too, why you should be put out is because its good for everyone, because everyone deserves it, because it's called caring for people, It's about giving a little of your self, having a little less for your self so that others can have and enjoy what you have.

    But then you probably wont understand any of that, your brought up with the American ideals, it's about me, what I want and what you can give me.

    BTW admittedly its from 2000 however still I think relevant http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
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    Aug 14, 2009 11:48 AM GMT
    The NHS isn't perfect, but I still think it's the best in the world.

    I am recoving from an operation I had on my knee 5 weeks ago, I had to wait 8 weeks between seeing my consultant and having the operation (because there was no urgency)

    The level of care I have recieved through out has been excellent, all the staff I have met have been superb, all appointments have been on time ( give or take 10 mins), I have had lots of xrays, physio is now being arranged, and at what cost to myself?? £14.40, which is the price of two prescriptions here in the UK, as I needed painkillers.

    So thankyou NHS I will happily pay my tax and national insurance if this is the result we as a nation get.
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    Aug 14, 2009 11:49 AM GMT
    lilCanker, why don't you focus on better understanding your own part of the world and not the USA? I'm not talking about the US becoming financially unstable, nor am I talking about the redistribution of wealth. I'm addressing something much more complex than that.

    Your know-it-all attitude annoys me. You annoy me. Please go away ... again ... icon_rolleyes.gif ... for the fourth time. And this time, make it PERMANENT!

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    Aug 14, 2009 11:52 AM GMT
    whats interesting is how you turn on someone who doesn't agree with you over tattoos.. But no, I'm not going anywhere thanks.

    But either way, your attempt to make it a "larger" issue really just seems to be taking the focus off what needs to be done and trying to make it seem bigger then it is.
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    Aug 14, 2009 12:21 PM GMT
    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HEREHere, in the US, a brilliant doctor didn't listen to me when I told him I had pain in between my shoulder and arm bone, had me pay up to a thousand dollars worth of tests, then confirmed it was inflamed in between my should and arm bone. All it took was a $5 anabolic steroid shot to completely eradicate the pain within 30 minutes
    .


    Interesting: or, to put it another way: your doctor DID listen to you, which is why he ordered what he felt were medically necessary tests, I'm guessing to rule out a cervical versus a peripheral neuropathy, and then gave you a shot of CORTICOSTEROIDS to completely eradicate the pain within 30 minutes.

    Begging the question: if you didn't like your doctor, why on earth would you trust him to stick a needle in your body?

    On the other hand: it sounds like your outcome was a good one. And I'm glad.

    Here's a suggestion: put this "brilliant doctor" on your Christmas card list and thank him for a job well done.


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    Aug 14, 2009 12:32 PM GMT
    THe issue is the access to health care and its cost, not how good and conscientious the doctor is. In the UK Jake wouldn´t have paid a penny for that: it would have already been paid for by the proportion of his taxes that went on health care (which, I need to keep reminding USA people is less than the proportion of USA taxes which goes on health care).

    I´m not stuck ideologically on how health care should be paid for: if there is a real market which enables all to buy in, then fine. However, most experience seems to point towards a single payer system providing the cheapest and best care (medicare, the Vets health care, France, Sweden etc).

    It´s all about access and value for money, not the quality of the care.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 14, 2009 4:32 PM GMT
    The American health care system is broken
    are there good doctors and hospitals? Of course there are
    Some of the best in the world
    but it don't mean crap if you can't access any of them

    There are Millions of people here who have no healthcare
    Every year I see my own health insurance get more and more expensive
    not by little amounts
    By the THOUSANDS .... every year
    and I WORK IN MEDICINE

    To say that we don't need to do anything is the height of stupidity
    because if this continues it will eat at our GDP and cause havoc with the economy

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    Aug 14, 2009 6:34 PM GMT
    I agree that something needs to be done. I think all Americans deserve access to quality healthcare, but it's not the American healthcare system that's broken. It's the insurance industry, and to a smaller degree, the pharma's that have created this disaster.

    To say the entire system is broken is to place blame in several key categories where it truly doesn't belong.
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    Aug 14, 2009 7:29 PM GMT
    I definitely agree that health insurance companies are the biggest contributors to our health care problem in the US. I don't see how a non-profit insurance option is such a bad thing. I'm not saying the rest of the healthcare system should be non-profit....doctors, equipment manufacturers, and even drug companies need to make a reasonable profit. But most healthcare professionals I've talked to will say and I agree from my own experience that health insurance companies are the biggest problem in all of this.

    Healthcare reform does not mean Socialized Healthcare. A Single Payer system is not even Socialized Healthcare. We have forms of both already in the US. Medicare is Single Payer. The VA medical system is socialized healthcare for our military veterans. A doctor friend of mine told me he thought the level of health care was very good at the VA, better than some he's seen in the private sector.

    I think Congress and the Obama Administration has not done a good job of laying out the options and explaining them to people so we can understand them which has led to a great deal of misinformation and non-productive arguing and debate.

    I'm glad to see people from other countries tell their story so we can hear how other health care systems work. I'd definitely like to and need to learn more.
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    Aug 14, 2009 7:32 PM GMT
    I have to say I have been very disappointed at how the democrats have marketed the changes: "extend medicare to all" would be so much better.

    "Give to all americans the same kind of care we give to our vets"

    Much harder to rubbish.

    icon_rolleyes.gif