CATS, greatest (gayest) musical ever!

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    Aug 15, 2009 12:02 AM GMT
    I've watched it a thousand times on dvd and I'm still enjoying it.icon_biggrin.gif
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Aug 15, 2009 3:27 AM GMT
    luisluz saidI've watched it a thousand times on dvd and I'm still enjoying it.icon_biggrin.gif


    Please don't ever admit that to anyone. *Especially* musicians, theater professionals, actors, cats, gays, or people in general. You'll never get a date.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Aug 15, 2009 3:33 AM GMT
    I loved how Little Britain had Andrew Lloyd Webber on their show and his line was "I've also written a broadway show about cats. Maybe you've heard of it, It's called.........cats."
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Aug 15, 2009 3:34 AM GMT
    jprichva saidOh come on, the first seven or eight hours aren't bad.


    I know! After 8 hours you get intermission so you can get drunk really fast and then pass out for the rest.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:36 AM GMT
    Listened to the music and read the poems in high school...saw the production in LA in high school. Some people still find it hard to believe I turned out to be gay....go figure.
    BTW...I own the DVD and watched it once. It doesn't do any justice to the show.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:38 AM GMT
    That play is so gay it hurt my ass just watching it.



    "I was nineteen years old when the musical Cats came to our town. I couldn't wait to see it. After the show I was asked if I wanted to go meet some of the performers backstage. Man, I was thrilled. But when I got back there, they were drunk and out of control. Rumpus Cat and Macavity kept feeling up my leg. I tried to leave, but, Rumpleteazer held me down, and... I was raped by Mr. Mistoffelees."

    A hand job to the first one to name that quote.
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Aug 15, 2009 3:42 AM GMT
    I pasted the quote into google. I am not going to give the answer away. But the name of the FIRST site that came up when I pasted it into google made me laugh. It was meant to be.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:43 AM GMT
    Portofino is the greatest musical ever.

    The gayest musical ever is Got Tu Go Disco. (Yes, that's the correct spelling of the title.) Even gayer than Xanadu. Much gayer than Falsettos, though not as gay as Rachael Lily Rosenbloom and Don't You Ever Forget It! (Yes, that's the correct spelling of the title.) But I'm not going to count Rachael Lily Rosenbloom and Don't You Ever Forget It! since it closed during previews.

    If I were to count it, then I'd have to include Royal Flush for consideration as well, and that would make things far too complicated.

    That way madness lies.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:50 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    theatrengym said But I'm not going to count Rachael Lily Rosenbloom and Don't You Ever Forget It! since it closed during previews.That way madness lies.

    I have a couple of demo songs from Rachael Lily Rosenbloom that I taped years ago from a radio program. I don't think they've ever been commercially released.


    No, I don't think that's ever been commercially released, but it circulates among collectors. One day, if I'm feeling strong enough, I'll have to listen to it.

    I also have a live performance. Just the songs. Trust me, that's more than enough. I wasn't able to get through the whole thing.
  • danisnotstr8

    Posts: 2579

    Aug 15, 2009 3:51 AM GMT
    theatrengym saidPortofino is the greatest musical ever.



    LOL nice. HAHAHAHA!!
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:51 AM GMT
    GuerrillaSodomite saidThat play is so gay it hurt my ass just watching it.



    "I was nineteen years old when the musical Cats came to our town. I couldn't wait to see it. After the show I was asked if I wanted to go meet some of the performers backstage. Man, I was thrilled. But when I got back there, they were drunk and out of control. Rumpus Cat and Macavity kept feeling up my leg. I tried to leave, but, Rumpleteazer held me down, and... I was raped by Mr. Mistoffelees."

    A hand job to the first one to name that quote.


    I'd answer this but I don't want to risk having the offer rescinded.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:59 AM GMT
    theatrengym said
    GuerrillaSodomite saidThat play is so gay it hurt my ass just watching it.



    "I was nineteen years old when the musical Cats came to our town. I couldn't wait to see it. After the show I was asked if I wanted to go meet some of the performers backstage. Man, I was thrilled. But when I got back there, they were drunk and out of control. Rumpus Cat and Macavity kept feeling up my leg. I tried to leave, but, Rumpleteazer held me down, and... I was raped by Mr. Mistoffelees."

    A hand job to the first one to name that quote.


    I'd answer this but I don't want to risk having the offer rescinded.

    You want it lubed or dry? It's your call, but I recommend lubed. I don't believe in lifting gloves so my calluses can pretty much cut glass.
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    Aug 15, 2009 4:01 AM GMT
    lmao - i just watched team america two weeks ago. great one.
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    Aug 15, 2009 4:03 AM GMT
    GuerrillaSodomite said
    theatrengym said
    GuerrillaSodomite saidThat play is so gay it hurt my ass just watching it.



    "I was nineteen years old when the musical Cats came to our town. I couldn't wait to see it. After the show I was asked if I wanted to go meet some of the performers backstage. Man, I was thrilled. But when I got back there, they were drunk and out of control. Rumpus Cat and Macavity kept feeling up my leg. I tried to leave, but, Rumpleteazer held me down, and... I was raped by Mr. Mistoffelees."

    A hand job to the first one to name that quote.


    I'd answer this but I don't want to risk having the offer rescinded.

    You want it lubed or dry? It's your call, but I recommend lubed. I don't believe in lifting gloves so my calluses can pretty much cut glass.


    Mine too. But now I've been . . . beaten to it.
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    Aug 15, 2009 6:09 AM GMT
    Hate me if you want, but the gayest musical ever has to be A Chorus Line....

    IMHO, however, I say that Phantom of the Opera and Miss Saigon and Rent are the greatest musicals ever.icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 15, 2009 6:44 AM GMT
    OK, if we really want to discuss the greatest musicals ever, my candidates for the top 10 would have to include Sweeney Todd, Follies, Carousel, The King and I, Fiddler on the Roof, Guys and Dolls, My Fair Lady, South Pacific, Show Boat, West Side Story, The Music Man, A Little Night Music and Oklahoma! (Those are just candidates, that's why there are more than 10.)

    Not every one of those is among my personal favorites, but those are some of the ones that really must be considered. Some personal favorites that I didn't include on that list: Love Life, Flower Drum Song, Pacific Overtures, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park With George, Chicago, Company, On the Town, Candide (yes, that opens a can of worms), On the Twentieth Century, The Light in the Piazza, Urinetown, Adding Machine, and 1776.

    At least those are the ones that came to mind first.
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    Aug 15, 2009 6:45 AM GMT
    danisnotstr8 said
    theatrengym saidPortofino is the greatest musical ever.



    LOL nice. HAHAHAHA!!


    I knew there had to be another Portofino fan here. icon_wink.gif

    I just hope you're not confusing it with Something More.
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    Aug 15, 2009 7:36 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    theatrengym saidOK, if we really want to discuss the greatest musicals ever, my candidates for the top 10 would have to include Sweeney Todd, Follies, Carousel, The King and I, Fiddler on the Roof, Guys and Dolls, My Fair Lady, South Pacific, Show Boat, West Side Story, The Music Man, A Little Night Music and Oklahoma! (Those are just candidates, that's why there are more than 10.)

    Not every one of those is among my personal favorites, but those are some of the ones that really must be considered. Some personal favorites that I didn't include on that list: Love Life, Flower Drum Song, Pacific Overtures, A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum, Into the Woods, Sunday in the Park With George, Chicago, Company, On the Town, Candide (yes, that opens a can of worms), On the Twentieth Century, The Light in the Piazza, Urinetown, Adding Machine, and 1776.

    At least those are the ones that came to mind first.

    Candide probably has the single most brilliant score.
    A Little Night Music has Sondheim's most astonishing lyric:
    In view of her penchant
    For something romantic,
    De Sade is too trenchant
    And Dickens too frantic,
    And Stendhal would ruin
    The plan of attack,
    As there isn't much blue in
    "The Red and the Black."
    De Maupassant's candor
    Would cause her dismay,
    The Brontes are grander
    But not very gay,
    Her taste is much blander,
    I'm sorry to say,
    But is Hans Christian Ander-
    Sen ever risque?


    Chicago has a terrific score and an enjoyable nasty core, but it is in many ways similar to Cabaret in feeling. Cabaret was a better movie than a show (how often can you say that?) because the Broadway version was too timid in translating Isherwood. Follies has an amazing score (I've seen it three times, including the original, London, and most recent revival) but it's not a likable show. The original Pacific Overtures was striking; I like it better now than I did when I first saw it at 19. I don't think I really "got" it then. Love Lifehas some wonderful material
    (Progress"} but I understand the book was a mess. Anyway, I prefer Berlin Kurt Weill to New York Weill. Mahagonny is a deeply underrated work, and even Dreigroschenoper is not really considered first-class, and it ought to be. Blame the 1952 Off-Broadway production, which made something cute out of something really frightening. The 1976 Shakespeare Festival production came closer, but nothing beats the original Lotte Lenya recordings.

    Rodgers and Hammerstein I really can't stand. The saccharine is too much. Rodgers and Hart is wonderful stuff. It's hard to imagine they came from the same composer, but somehow they did.


    Well, I'm not a great fan of the film version of Cabaret but when it comes to discussing the show, the textual issues are so huge and so integral to any discussion that it demands a bigger discussion that I'm feeling like right now (especially since I doubt many here would be interested).

    Although Chicago and Cabaret have some strong similarities, I think the differences are more important. For starters, Cabaret is prevailingly serious (despite some comic sections), somber, and downright earnest in intent ("Warning: It could happen here" is the point of view), while Chicago is primarily satiric ("Hey, what we're showing you has already happened here and it isn't getting better. But we might as well enjoy it."). In Cabaret, the creators clearly wanted you to care about the characters despite the use of some distancing devices, while the creators of Chicago clearly wanted you to view the characters with little or no emotional involvement with their personal predicaments.

    As for Follies, I gotta ask you: Are you concerned with being likable? Maybe you are but you don't seem to be a lot of the time here. And that's OK. Maybe that's even admirable. Whether a musical is likable in tone or point of view is not generally a concern of mine. King Lear isn't a particularly likable play nor is Madame Bovary a particularly likable novel. I don't ask musicals to be likable any more than I ask plays or novels to be likable.

    Lucky you for having seen the original production. You're probably one of the youngest people to have seen it, along with me.

    I loved Pacific Overtures when I first saw at 18 and I still love it now. My perspective on it now isn't that different than it was when I first saw it, which may mean that I haven't matured that much.

    I guess I don't see Mahagonny or Dreigroschenoper as being underrated. I certainly know hardly anyone who doesn't think Dreigroschenoper is first rate. Mahagonny is generally considered a masterpiece, even if it's never achieved much popularity for any length of time.

    I think the original production of Dreigroschenoper probably wasn't too scary. Lenya certainly didn't think it was. She said the tone was campy, and I think you can hear that to some degree on the early recordings. She hated the NYSF production.

    Love Life does have book problems, but it's so fascinating even with the book problems, at least it can be in the right production. And I think it has one of Weill's greatest scores. I can't choose between the German and the American Weill. He wrote some great stuff both places.

    I think that Rodgers and Hammerstein wrote some pretty tough shows, even though Hammerstein was an essentially optimistic writer and that optimism was reflected in Rodgers's music. There really are dark edges in all of the four that are generally considered their greatest (although I sometimes think Flower Drum Song may be my personal favorite).
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    Aug 15, 2009 7:54 AM GMT
    whilst I thought the stubble thread was the gayest thread ever..

    This takes the cake!
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    Aug 15, 2009 8:07 AM GMT
    lilTanker saidwhilst I thought the stubble thread was the gayest thread ever..

    This takes the cake!


    Thank you. I'm sure that's at least partly (if not mostly) due to me. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 15, 2009 11:03 AM GMT
    Cats is actually my favourite musical EVAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR!

    Pity they took the show out of the west end icon_sad.gif

    But i has happy memories icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 15, 2009 4:02 PM GMT
    I prefer Tristan und Isolde and Elektra.
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    Aug 16, 2009 3:49 AM GMT
    Rent, Cats, Moulin Rouge, A Chorus Line, Xanadu, and Mama Mia! are pretty gay. I couldn't even finish all of them.
  • jlly_rnchr

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    Aug 16, 2009 4:29 AM GMT
    I'm surprised Grey Gardens has not come up in this thread. While not gay in plot, it is about Little Edie Beale, and while she may have been bat-shit crazy, gay men were/are obsessed with her, so it qualifies. Christine Ebersole is incredible in this show.

    Best Musical? Company, by a mile.


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    Aug 16, 2009 5:26 AM GMT
    jprichva saidMy predilections are for darker material. I love the film version of Cabaret because it restores much of the original Berlin Stories and dispenses with the silly subplot involving Jack Gilford. I think you're correct about the difference between Cabaret and Chicago, but musically and in tone there are huge similarities. Notice that their other shows, lacking this dark edge, really are sort of not very good: Steel Pier, Flora the Red Menace, The Rink....but Kiss of The Spider Woman is very good---again, with that brooding undertone. Murder, oppression, and general bad behavior seem to inspire them.

    I'm not sure I was clear about Follies. I think it is stunning. I must do, or I wouldn't have gone to see it in three different incarnations (I'm sorry I missed the Paper Mill Playhouse with Ann Miller...sigh). But when I said it was not likable, I meant that the characters are, in the main, whiny and unappealing, and the show is really a kind of funeral dirge from start to finish (with a great score). I rank it as one of the best, and I love it, but I would be more excited to see A Little Night Music again (which I also saw in the original). Actually, the only Sondheim shows that I didn't see on first run were Forum (too young), Assassins (wasn't around for the revival and couldn't get a ticket for the Manhattan Theater Club first run), and Bounce (was gone by then). I revere Sondheim as much as any musical theater homo.

    As to R&H---I have heard your defense of it from others, about the dark undertones, etc, and in truth the only place I really enjoyed that was in the two songs cut from the movie of The Sound of Music. They have a European feel and a dark sensibility, infinitely better than the drecky sound that replaced one of them ("I Have Confidence In Me", barf). But I can listen to Rodgers and Hart endlessly; I barely ever play a Rodgers & Hammerstein show. They may have been in tune with an optimistic postwar American zeitgeist, but it feels dated and artificial now. The only show (imho) that stands up to time is South Pacific. And even parts of that are dated (Carefully Taught).

    The tragedy of Bernstein is that he didn't write more. For Broadway or anywhere else. I read some years back that the very tuneful Chichester Psalms, his great choral work, was built from melodies discarded from West Side Story and also a version of The Skin Of Our Teeth that he was writing (and abandoned) with Comden & Green. It makes you very sorry that they never wrote that show, especially as I love that play. (I understudied Mr. Antrobus in high school.)

    Kurt Weill is not to everyone's taste, I know. I saw the Met Mahagonny with Astrid Varnay and Teresa Stratas a million years ago, and it was great. I had the old 1950s Columbia recording already, and had practically memorized it. It is a chilling story, set to jazz-accented and sweetly poisonous tunes; it is the masterpiece it is said to be. Dreigroschenoper is actually less accomplished (and one of its tunes was stolen intact from the original Beggar's Opera, "Peachum's Morning Hymn"), but it is very hard-edged and quite good. The Blitzstein translation may have popularized it, but it also dumbed it down a lot. You are right that Lenya didn't like the 1976 production. I interviewed her for my college newspaper right around then and she was frank in her dislike. But at least it restored some of the grittiness and removed the cuteness.

    One of my exes is a serious musical-o-phile, but it drove me crazy that he was so un-discriminating. He loved it all, the brassier the better. I don't. I have little taste for the crudeness of Jerry Herman's music or the banality of what passes for humor in his songs; I like Jule Styne only here and there, and I find Irving Berlin the most overrated of all. Listen to a Berlin song sometime---any song---and you'll find the dullest 4-beat rhythm underlying every song. Even Puttin' on the Ritz---its syncopation is overlaid over the squarest rhythm around. Now listen to any Gershwin song and you'll see what I mean. We went to see the Bernadette Peters revival of Annie Get Your Gun and I just wanted to flee, I hated it so much. Who calls this thing a masterpiece? Yuck.

    Anyway, those are my prejudices. I don't even mention Lloyd Webber or Boublil-Schonberg because I consider that stuff pretentious nonsense.


    But the film of Cabaret has the Marisa Berenson subplot, which always seems kind of banal to me. It's been so long since I've read Isherwood. That subplot does come from Isherwood though, yes?

    Call me sentimental, but I like the Schneider-Schultz romance. If anything, I thought the Mendes-Marshall revival (as well as the 1988 revival) made a mistake cutting "Meeskite," although I suppose it wouldn't have fit in the Mendes-Marshall production, which I didn't like. I think "Meeskite" is a fantastic and wonderfully theatrical song.

    Still, I kind of don't think Cabaret works so well as a show. The original version made a mistake by trying to make the Cliff-Sally relationship a heterosexual romance. The Mendes-Marshall version is just full of overkill, and I think it's a mistake to make Cliff a non-singing character. Meanwhile, the 1988 version made other mistakes, including the awful new song, "Don't Go."

    The movie probably works well enough as a movie, and certainly people love it, but I find some of the dialogue very awkward and I think the bisexual conflict is poorly handled.

    Zorba has plenty of darkness and a lot of good material in the score but the show does have problems. I think it was poorly conceived (that bouzouki circle is just silly) and perhaps it simply shouldn't have been adapted for the stage in the first place. Some really excellent stuff is in there though.

    Steel Pier is also a fairly dark show. I was in the minority who loved Steel Pier, though the score is uneven and some of it didn't work. But I totally went with the basic premise, which many people didn't buy at all, and found it extremely moving.

    Like you, I saw all the Sondheim shows starting with Company in their original productions (and multiple times), except for Assassins, to which I wasn't able to obtain a seat. Btw, it was at Playwrights Horizons. It was Putting It Together that was at MTC. I did see that and I'm very glad I did. And I saw Bounce in D.C.

    I thought the Paper Mill Follies wasn't good, though it did produce a very decent recording. Are we ever going to see a good production of Follies or was the original the one and only time that the vision has been realized successfully? There were a bunch of regional productions in the '80s and '90s that had their moments but that lacked the magic combination of the budget, the vision and the cast that the original had and that show really needs.

    Actually, I think a relatively low-budget production could work if the director had the vision and the cast but so far I haven't seen one that has. I'd be more interested in seeing a really good production of Follies than just about anything but I've also ceased to expect that I'm ever going to see one.

    I've seen Night Music so many times and I'm not especially looking forward to the upcoming production. I've never much liked Trevor Nunn's work and the thought of hearing it on Broadway with an orchestra of 7 (maybe they'll up it to 9 or 11 for Bro