specifics of health care reform

  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Aug 15, 2009 3:09 PM GMT
    ok, what follows was sent to me, and not having read any of the specifics of the bill(s) proposed, i have no idea if any of this is correct. which is the point of my posting it here, has anyone else read the specifics of the proposed health care reform bill(s)? is any of this accurate?

    thanks for taking time to read it.

    and please remember, what is below is copied from an email sent to me, i didn't write it.



    Page 22 of the HC Bill: Mandates that the Govt will audit books of all employers that self insure!!

    Page 30 Sec 123 of HC bill - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get.

    Page 29 lines 4-16 in the HC bill: YOUR HEALTH CARE IS RATIONED!!!


    Page 42 of HC Bill:The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

    Page 50 Section 152 in HC bill: HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, illegal or otherwise

    Page 58 HC Bill: Govt will have real-time access to individuals finances & a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

    Page 59 HC Bill lines 21-24: Govt will have direct access to you ur banks accounts for elective funds transfer.

    Page 65 Sec 164: is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions & community organizations: (ACORN).

    Page 84 Sec 203 HC bill: Govt mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange.

    Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications for of Benefit Levels for Plans = The Govt will ration your Healthcare!

    Page 91 Lines 4-7 HC Bill: Govt mandates linguistic appropriate services. Example - Translation: illegal aliens.

    Page 95 HC Bill Lines 8-18: The Govt will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Govt HC plan.

    Page 85 Line 7 HC Bill: Specifications of Benefit Levels for Plans. AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

    Page 102 Lines 12-18 HC Bill: Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice.

    Page 124 lines 24-25 HC: No company can sue GOVT on price fixing. No "judicial review" against Govt Monopoly.

    Page 127 Lines 1-16 HC Bill: Doctors/ American Medical Association - The Govt will tell YOU what you can make! (salary)

    Page 145 Line 15-17: An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE!

    Page 126 Lines 22-25: Employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families.

    Page 149 Lines 16-24: ANY Employer with payroll 401k & above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.

    Page 150 Lines 9-13: Business's with payroll btw 251k & 401k who doesn't provide public option pays 2-6% tax on all payroll.

    Page 167 Lines 18-23: ANY individual who doesn't have acceptable HC according to Govt will be taxed 2.5% of income.

    Page 170 Lines 1-3 HC Bill: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

    Page 195 HC Bill: Officers & employees of HC Admin (GOVT) will have access to ALL Americans finances /personal records.

    Page 203 Line 14-15 HC: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" Yes, it says that!

    Page 239 Line 14-24 HC Bill: Govt will reduce physician services for Medicaid Seniors, low income and poor are affected.

    Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors, doesn't matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same!

    Page 253 Line 10-18: Govt sets value of Doctor's time, proffession, judgment etc. Literally value of humans.

    Page 265 Sec 1131: Govt mandates & controls productivity for private HC industries.

    Page 268 Sec 1141: Federal Govt regulates rental & purchase of power driven wheelchairs.

    Page 272 SEC. 1145: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

    Page 280 Sec 1151: The Govt will penalize hospitals for whatever Govt deems preventable re-admissions.

    Page 298 Lines 9-11: Doctors, treat a patient during initial admission that results in a re-admission -Govt will penalize you.

    Page 317 L 13-20: PROHIBITION on ownership/investment. Govt tells Doctors what/how much they can own!

    Page 317-318 lines 21-25, 1-3: PROHIBITION on expansion- Govt is mandating hospitals cannot expand.

    Page 321 2-13: Hospitals have opportunity to apply for exception BUT community input is required. Can u say ACORN?!!

    Page 335 L 16-25 Pg 336-339: Govt mandates establishment of outcome based measures. HC the way they want. Rationing.

    Page 341 Lines 3-9: Govt has authority to disqualify Medicare Advance Plans, HMOs, etc. Forcing people into Govt plan.

    Page 354 Sec 1177: Govt will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people! Unbelievable!

    Page 379 Sec 1191: Govt creates more bureaucracy - Tele-health Advisory Comittee. Can you say HC by phone?

    Page 425 Lines 4-12: Govt mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life patients.

    Page 425 Lines 17-19: Govt will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

    Page 425 Lines 22-
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:27 PM GMT
    Sounds 100% like right wing hysteria.

    Really, more discernment please.


    (Oh and help the illegal immigrants who prop up parts of the USA economy with the exploitation of their labour? Hell 2 da no! icon_confused.gif )
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Aug 15, 2009 3:34 PM GMT
    yes lostboy, i agree, but has anyone read the bills proposed? that was the real point of my posting this. i agree, what was sent to me sounds like typical rightwing hogwash. but, again, i'm trying to spark someone into providing the specifics of the bills proposed, without spin. i have yet to hear the un-varnished, non-speculatory specifics.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:35 PM GMT
    Agreed. It seems that this is a right-wing attempt to scare people away from health care reform. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 15, 2009 3:37 PM GMT
    I haven´t read it and won´t do so: even it´s most "socialised" form was FAR FAR too conservative for me. Single payer really seems to be the only practical way to provide quality health care to all. FOr some reason the market doesn´t seem to work for health care as it does on beef or shoes.

    End conclusion: I´m not moving back to the USA,
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    Aug 15, 2009 4:02 PM GMT
    Summer rolls right along with -- not surprisingly -- the entrenched power structure resisting change every step of the way. The latest battlefront, of course, is the health care non-debate, with lobbyist run, corporate funded interests and opportunistic politicians exploiting underlying fears, creating confusion and spreading misinformation about proposed changes. Websites have been exposed that not only direct people to specific venues and times where centrist senators -- usually Democrats -- are holding town meetings on the issue, but also provide detailed instruction manuals for interrupting and shouting down opponents. Rachel Maddow on MSNBC (on whom I must confess having a crush) has been doing a brilliant job of covering this unfolding story.

    Bullying, of course, is a classic abuse of power. What is more telling, however, is that a bully is usually compensating for a perceived weakness or lack of power.

    We really did not expect the patriarchy to relinquish its power willingly or easily, did we? That is not the nature of power. Piggybacking on Dr. King's quote that "freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed," power is likewise not generally given, but must be claimed.
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    Aug 15, 2009 9:26 PM GMT
    MiktjieCA saidI checked a few of the items on the list and they are indeed true.

    Have a look for yourself, but I would say the list is accurate and not simply some scare tactic.


    Always the best lie is distorted truth. Obviously they have *something* to build on in each case, but, as is patently obvious from the phrasing, this presentation is aimed at the loopy right.

    I have no time for them.
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    Aug 17, 2009 2:21 PM GMT
    (reprinted from the NYTimes)

    Let’s talk about health care around the advanced world.

    Every wealthy country other than the United States guarantees essential care to all its citizens. There are, however, wide variations in the specifics, with three main approaches taken.

    In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We’ve all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false. Like every system, the National Health Service has problems, but over all it appears to provide quite good care while spending only about 40 percent as much per person as we do. By the way, our own Veterans Health Administration, which is run somewhat like the British health service, also manages to combine quality care with low costs.

    The second route to universal coverage leaves the actual delivery of health care in private hands, but the government pays most of the bills. That’s how Canada and, in a more complex fashion, France do it. It’s also a system familiar to most Americans, since even those of us not yet on Medicare have parents and relatives who are.

    Again, you hear a lot of horror stories about such systems, most of them false. French health care is excellent. Canadians with chronic conditions are more satisfied with their system than their U.S. counterparts. And Medicare is highly popular, as evidenced by the tendency of town-hall protesters to demand that the government keep its hands off the program.

    Finally, the third route to universal coverage relies on private insurance companies, using a combination of regulation and subsidies to ensure that everyone is covered. Switzerland offers the clearest example: everyone is required to buy insurance, insurers can’t discriminate based on medical history or pre-existing conditions, and lower-income citizens get government help in paying for their policies.

    In this country, the Massachusetts health reform more or less follows the Swiss model; costs are running higher than expected, but the reform has greatly reduced the number of uninsured. And the most common form of health insurance in America, employment-based coverage, actually has some “Swiss” aspects: to avoid making benefits taxable, employers have to follow rules that effectively rule out discrimination based on medical history and subsidize care for lower-wage workers.

    So where does Obamacare fit into all this? Basically, it’s a plan to Swissify America, using regulation and subsidies to ensure universal coverage.

    If we were starting from scratch we probably wouldn’t have chosen this route. True “socialized medicine” would undoubtedly cost less, and a straightforward extension of Medicare-type coverage to all Americans would probably be cheaper than a Swiss-style system. That’s why I and others believe that a true public option competing with private insurers is extremely important: otherwise, rising costs could all too easily undermine the whole effort.

    But a Swiss-style system of universal coverage would be a vast improvement on what we have now. And we already know that such systems work.

    So we can do this. At this point, all that stands in the way of universal health care in America are the greed of the medical-industrial complex, the lies of the right-wing propaganda machine, and the gullibility of voters who believe those lies.
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    Aug 17, 2009 2:47 PM GMT
    MiktjieCA saidText of the House Bill http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:H.R.3200:

    I checked a few of the items on the list and they are indeed true.

    Have a look for yourself, but I would say the list is accurate and not simply some scare tactic.

    I'd be interested in having you post a few examples from this link at the Thomas website. You say you have found affirmation that these things are true.

    But it's easy enough to just throw that out there without verification. I'd like to see verification based on what (you say) you've found.

    So tell us, which of these claims did you look up? And where is the direct URL affirming the claim?
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    Aug 17, 2009 3:04 PM GMT
    After looking at just the first six claims, I see a pattern that verifies (to my satisfaction) that these claims are indeed a product of the right wing hysteria machine.

    For one, most of these provisions are no different than how private insurance (the kind most of us now have) is operated.

    1) Rationing - In private insurance it's called "maximum annual benefits" and it's something we've all lived with forever. No boogeyman there.

    2) Government committee deciding your treatment/benefits. Not true. Like private insurance companies, a committee decides what treatments will be covered at what level of benefits. Your private insurance has this same kind of schedule of benefits. If you don't believe it, talk to you HR director.

    Your private insurance also excludes certain treatments (i.e. deciding your treatment/benefits). If you don't believe it, try getting them to pay for adult orthodontics or cosmetic surgery.

    3) Health coverage for illegal immigrants. This is simply a false claim. There is no wording in this section that mentions, alludes to, or infers treatment for illegal immigrants. The section is headed "Prohibiting Discrimination in Health Care", which to paranoid right wingers, is code, meaning (obviously) free health care for all illegal immigrants.

    I'm sure if I had an extra five or six hours I could go through the rest of the list and debunk each item just the same as these.
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    Aug 17, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
    Is there anything in there about health care for a Gay Men's Spouse??? Insteated of letting the states decide......
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    Aug 17, 2009 3:41 PM GMT
    Why do some "right wing" people respond so well and favorably to this type of news? It's so obviously lies it's ridiculous.
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    Aug 17, 2009 3:45 PM GMT
    Before we get all crazy, here's a link to a blog that helps explain some of the jargon; http://www.thepajamapundit.com/2009/08/hr3200-myths.html and it seems pretty solid. Here's a link from Factcheck.org, which is more reputable; http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/seven-falsehoods-about-health-care/.

    Hopefully those answer some questions without getting into President Obama bashing on here.