Report: Gay Iraqis tortured, killed-Kim Gamel, Associated Press.

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    Aug 17, 2009 11:52 PM GMT
    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/world/story/892298.html


  • Mepark

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    Aug 18, 2009 2:02 AM GMT
    This atrocity was unheard of and unthinkable during the Saddam era, as he did not tolerate it, and our beloved former president was proud to claim he freed the Iraqi people from him.
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    Aug 19, 2009 2:40 AM GMT
    How can this be? Didn't Republican neo-cons promised us that after Saddam was overthrown, at very great cost to the US in lives in money, that the Iraqi people would embrace Western democracy? And become just like us?

    Or is this the neo-con vision of "us": killing gays? We sure made Iraq a lot better country after several hundred thousand of them were killed, and their infrastructure ruined. Nice job, Republican neo-cons. And then you were thoughtful enough to leave the mess to be cleaned up by the Democrats. icon_razz.gif
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    Aug 19, 2009 4:51 AM GMT
    I recently read a report about this too. The sectarian violence between shiites and Sunnis has subsided a lot, and people are out socializing more and so now, the religious leaders in the mosques are actively encouraging citizens to target, beat and torture gay men.........and men who are suspected of being gay.

    Also, Iraqis who organize torture squads and go after gay family members are given special graces and praise.

    Its an organized effort by the newly "freed"enlightened Iraqi people........with the blessing of the enlightened religious leaders.

    God is great, right?
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    Aug 19, 2009 5:12 AM GMT
    I AM BEYOND FUCKING DISGUSTEDicon_evil.gificon_exclaim.gif
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    Aug 19, 2009 5:41 AM GMT
    Here is another article on the same topic:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/17/iraqi-gays-targeted-bruta_n_261155.html
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    Aug 19, 2009 7:33 AM GMT
    Actually the same things happened under Saddam, even worse. I remember talking with people at a water park in Baghdad, and some of the stories I'd hear from them would just be out of this world. It was a big deal for the people having fun at the water park, because it was a park that Saddam would frequent, and people were always afraid when he was there.

    One of my friends, who left the country when he was younger, when Saddam was in power, he had told me his uncle who was suspected of being against Saddam was tortured, put in a mass grave with other people suspected of being against Saddam, with a bomb strapped to em, and buried alive. You can imagine what was done to gay people, women, and Christians. I remember helping build a shelter for kids who've lost their parents because their parents were Christian, so they were killed. Saddam's sons were horrible, like little demons, if they saw a woman on the street they wanted to screw, married or not, they'd snatch her up, rape her torture her, sometimes kill her, but then after the rape and all they'd be shamed for not being virgins, so they'd usually get a lot of shit from their own family after it all. Women there today are able to go to school more, own businesses, and there are a lot of men who subscribe to the radical Muslim beliefs who hate this, and yeah there are stories of women being attacked, and or killed just for going to school, or owning a business.

    The stories of gays being treated horribly are not surprising at all, gays are treated very harshly in that region of the world, due to culture and religion, well a religion that has distorted the culture for many many years. You'll often hear many Arabs who actually do have the courage to speak out, say there is a problem with the culture, how the culture and the religion need to be reformed.

    If anyone is expecting everything to be all peachy keen after the war, you're living in a fantasy world, that has NEVER happened after any war. Things weren't all peachy keen for blacks in this country when they became free, nor after the civil war, it took time for things to get where they are today, even with gays. Does that mean ill thoughts towards these groups will cease? Hell no because no matter where you go in this world you'll always run into hate, that is just the ugly side of humanity. However ill actions, thought, speech, and the exclusion of someone, because of race, religion, gender ect, is widely frowned upon, and punishable, and just doesn't pay in today's world.

    The war though very horrible as all wars are, and whether you agree with it or not, it has given the people a chance at rebuilding their country, the people who want a different Iraq. The job is a tough one indeed, and its going to take a lot of time nothing will be done overnight, but with all that I saw before I left, and hearing things from some of the people, I was a kinda surprised, especially seeing how things were, from day 1 of invasion, and the stories I'd hear from my friend who left the country, before the invasion. I also see that things are on the right path, and all anyone can do is just hope for the best, and speak out for the people who are still being oppressed, as these people definitely want the support of the free world.

    So yes the people are free, being that they are able to do a lot they sure as hell weren't allowed to do, or own when Saddam was about, but there is a lot of work ahead.
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    Aug 19, 2009 7:46 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    Mepark saidThis atrocity was unheard of and unthinkable during the Saddam era, as he did not tolerate it, and our beloved former president was proud to claim he freed the Iraqi people from him.


    You are right. Many gay Iraqis say life was easier under Saddam Hussein rule.


    Things were "easier" because everyone was scared beyond hell, which is no way to live, if you truly wish to be free, which is the natural desire, of all men/women, and something deserved. I really wish people could see the way the citizens of Baghdad were in that water park, or at the Zoo, and hear the things that were said, and felt by the people. I remember I was kinda shocked at how happy people looked. It just seemed weird, because things weren't exactly 100% safe, and things were kinda fucked up.

    But I kept hearing the same things over and over, about how Saddam would come to these places, and how afraid everyone would be, like almost afraid to even fart around him haha. One guy at the water park talked about how Saddam would have him play some game with him, and how afraid he was of beating Saddam in the game.

    Basically when Saddam was around the country was like a woman who is beaten by her husband every night, and is afraid to step out of that world, because of the dangers, and uncertainty its big and scary, and very difficult to adjust to things after they get out, because things were somewhat easier when they were with that man, who in some twisted ways took care of them, and kept a certain routine going. Now things are hard because they are out on their own, don't have that man who they feared greatly yes, but did keep a certain order in the home.. That's what a woman over there told me.
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    Aug 19, 2009 1:26 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Rad_d81

    Now things are hard because they are out on their own, don't have that man who they feared greatly yes, but did keep a certain order in the home.. That's what a woman over there told me.[/quote]

    So now, they don't have to fear this man. Instead, people have to fear gangs who gleefully search for, torture and kill people......and a government that gives tacit approval to these militias to kill gay people.

    I guess these Shite and Sunni Iraqis grew bored with killing each other in the name of god, so now after they spend a tough day killing gay people, they can relax and pray in the mosques.

    And all of this has been made possible by MY USA tax dollars and the loss of so many American troops.



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    Aug 20, 2009 8:43 AM GMT
    KissingPro said[quote][cite]Rad_d81

    Now things are hard because they are out on their own, don't have that man who they feared greatly yes, but did keep a certain order in the home.. That's what a woman over there told me.


    So now, they don't have to fear this man. Instead, people have to fear gangs who gleefully search for, torture and kill people......and a government that gives tacit approval to these militias to kill gay people.

    I guess these Shite and Sunni Iraqis grew bored with killing each other in the name of god, so now after they spend a tough day killing gay people, they can relax and pray in the mosques.

    And all of this has been made possible by MY USA tax dollars and the loss of so many American troops.



    [/quote]


    They've been killing gay people in that part of the world for awhile among other groups as well. Israel is pretty much the only place in that region where it is safe to be gay, sure they get attacked and harassed, but nothing like what goes on in the rest of that region. The loss of innocent life is always a horrible thing, especially when it is hate inspired. I don't just look at it as a gay thing, because it feels as if them being gay, makes their deaths more important than that girl who was killed, just for going to school, or that man who was killed for being a Christian, or not wanting to have anything to do with faith at all.

    As far as the war goes itself, I don't agree with how it was started, or managed, though I wasn't the least bit surprised it even happened. No sense in dwelling in what was done however. I am proud of the work I've done over there, the people I served with, and I certainly for the rest of my life remember all of the people I've personally helped/trained, and became friends with over there.

    The chaos you speak of, the gangs going around killing, and all.. This type of chaos always goes on after war.. Its one of the many horrors of war. The very same things happened after The Civil War, hell even WWII,.. In Europe the Jews were actually blamed for the war by many people who still had hatred for them, and no doubt were they harassed, and were in fear. Of course nothing as harsh as what is being done to gays, women, Christians, or non religious, over there. But such things as I said always happen after war, its horrible.

    Like I said they have a long hard road ahead of them, a chance at a brighter future, like other countries today that have seen dark times, because of evil men. And despite what you hear from the media, or read on blogs, there are Iraqis over there that know what was done, what it cost, and are thankful. Are there Iraqis who hate us, wish we never invaded, and want us gone? You bet! Just as there were Germans, and Japanese who felt the same, and opposite.. The ones that matter are the ones who are thankful, and do want to work towards something better, I'm proud of em too, and hope for the best, only time will tell. As I said the best thing people here, and in other free countries can do, is acknowledge it, and speak out for those people. Not only just for the gays, but for the women, and the people who want to be free to believe what they want, or in nothing at all.
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    Aug 20, 2009 9:29 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidRad_d81, have you ever met Saddam in person or saw him? Or you just hear propaganda stories that dislike Saddam and talk bad about him? Saddam have so many Christians friends. I know some gay Iraqis say they were living way better under Saddam rule, than they are living today under the Kurdish-Iraqi President. Homosexuality was legal in Iraq under Saddam Hussein and remains so. Not anymore under the Kurdish-Iraqi President that was help and supported by our U.S. Government. I am not going to argue with you.



    No I haven't met him in person, but I'm very quite sure you haven't. However I've met quite a few people who've met him in person, or people who've had their lives turned upside down because of him, and would be offended at what you've been saying. He tolerated gays, but always turned a blind eye towards gay honor killings.

    Actually being over there seeing, and hearing from the people. is a lot different from reading the blogs, or watching Al-Jazeera (which I'm sure you do that) that cater to your misguided views... Your words are proof you have absolutely no idea what you are even talking about.. So yes don't argue with me, because you don't speak for the people who feared him, or had their lives ruined by him, so take that propaganda some place else, it doesn't work here.
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    Aug 20, 2009 10:02 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair said
    Rad_d81 said
    sxydrkhair saidRad_d81, have you ever met Saddam in person or saw him? Or you just hear propaganda stories that dislike Saddam and talk bad about him? Saddam have so many Christians friends. I know some gay Iraqis say they were living way better under Saddam rule, than they are living today under the Kurdish-Iraqi President. Homosexuality was legal in Iraq under Saddam Hussein and remains so. Not anymore under the Kurdish-Iraqi President that was help and supported by our U.S. Government. I am not going to argue with you.

    so take that propaganda some place else, it doesn't work here.


    What propaganda? That some gay Iraqis told me they were living under Saddam rule better than are living now in Iraq? Or Homosexuality was legal in Iraq under Saddam Hussein rule? Or Saddam was secular? This is not propaganda. This is a fact from real people.

    Those that turn down by Saddam were against him and was against Iraq. They were TRAITORS. Shias (pro-Iranian government) and Kurds Muslims (dislike Iraq) always cause trouble.



    I don't even know where to begin, to tell you how pathetic you sound, and its nothing different from what I've heard from some people while I was over there. You're a huge disrespect to all the good people in that country, who've had their lives ruined by him.

    I never said homosexuality was outlawed in Iraq, in fact Baghdad has quite the homosexual night life, it was unsafe of course, Israel's is much better much safer. However as I said there were a lot of gay honor killings. Saddam and his ministries turned a blind eye to it. It was ok to kill someone if they were gay. Of course things are more chaotic now, such happens during/after war.. As I mentioned in my earlier post.

    Yes I already know you're a little Saddam loyalist, sounding just like one of those crazy little Nazis, all of the many innocent people killed at his command were traitors. You know (I'm sure you don't know) After the war Iraq had with Iran, and were severely hurt, Saddam was worried about the people turning against him, and uprising. This is when the executions stepped up, and really put the people in fear. People like my friend's uncle, had bombs strapped to them, and thrown in mass graves, because they were believed to have said something bad about Saddam. And yes Saddam was a secular man, even though he believed he was a descendant of Marduk (wacko), he got pretty religious later on. And about the Christians I was there helping with shelters for kids who's parents were killed because they were Christian, so don't even try that BS with me.

    You are pathetic... Take the propaganda else where, it is boring...And you're an embarrassment to humankind. I don't talk with Saddam loyalist sorry, so you're going to have to go on ignore.
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    Aug 21, 2009 3:09 AM GMT
    While the proportion of murders are in favour of Saddam under Saddam... that does little about the qualitative value of the act itself.


    Uday Hussein was known for jamming his thumb up virgin brides and deflowering them on their wedding day before bringing them back to the groom and new husband.

    Uday had his testicles and dick blown off in an assassination attempt by his own father some years before.
  • jeffper1

    Posts: 148

    Aug 21, 2009 7:56 AM GMT
    then bring back hussein and let the violence reoccurour
    thank god hitler and hussein are gone