Militias and hate groups growing

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 18, 2009 4:02 AM GMT
    The Southern Poverty Law Center issued a report of the reviving militia and hate-group movement in the U.S. Fascinating reading, accompanied by a state-by state map of these and other hate groups. I was surprised that there are eight such groups in DC, and I know of one in Delaware that they do not list.
    http://www.splcenter.org/news/item.jsp?aid=392
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 18, 2009 10:33 AM GMT
    Let's go back in time a little bit

    Remember back in April when Homeland Security sent out a memo stating exactly that and all the republicans had their hair on fire?

    Who's the groups that have bombed and killed people here in the United States domestically? Tim McFee Eric Rudolph? Kinda sound familiar?
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    Aug 18, 2009 2:19 PM GMT
    Yeah, its the right that has been doing the bombing and shootings for the last 40 years or so. SDS I think were the last left terrorists. Oklahoma city, the killing of the MD in Wichita, all the loons with guns at Obama events.
  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Aug 18, 2009 2:21 PM GMT
    The Republican party gives a lot of license to these nuts, and anybody who supports them should be held just as accountable.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 18, 2009 5:10 PM GMT
    And that Nutjob who showed up at a townhall meeting with a pistol strapped to his leg

    WTF???

    and the rightwing loonies on Fake News and CNN (Yes you Grandpa Dobbs)
    were going on about how it was his right

    Right to do what exactly? What the hell was that supposed to show?
  • olden

    Posts: 194

    Aug 18, 2009 5:17 PM GMT
    It is a pendulum thing. Today it is the right-wing whackos. In the 70s it was the Left - Students for a Democratic Society, the Simbianese Liberation Army, the Black Panthers, etc. In the 1890-1910 period it was the "Wobblies" or unions that did the bombing and burning. In the 1770s it was the Sons of Liberty. In the early 18th Century it was the Luddites who opposed the Industrial Revolution. In the 16th Century it was those pesky Protestants. And in the 2nd Century it was those pesky Christians. We have alwyas had our dissenters and thank God we do. If we did not, we would all be subjects of Xerxes CLXXVII.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Aug 18, 2009 5:21 PM GMT
    GQjock saidLet's go back in time a little bit

    Remember back in April when Homeland Security sent out a memo stating exactly that and all the republicans had their hair on fire?

    Who's the groups that have bombed and killed people here in the United States domestically? Tim McFee Eric Rudolph? Kinda sound familiar?


    These are people that are absolutely coming unglued by the fact that a black man is our President. There is an entire generation of wingnuts that don't know what it means to be in the political minority, and their sense of outrage knows no bounds. These are the birthers, the deathers and the teabaggers that scream ridiculous things in frustration because they feel that the "America" that they know is slipping away. RW radio and TV (specifically Limbaugh and Beck) are stoking these flames, and will certainly be held accountable when something horrible happens. At least, that's who I would blame if I were the lawyer of one of these folks (who actually brought a gun to an Obama event, go figure)...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 18, 2009 5:26 PM GMT
    Shouldn't a more important question to be asked; i.e, why are you allowing a man with a gun who is not part of the security detail to be in the presence of the president?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 18, 2009 5:35 PM GMT
    Hate groups and Republicans go hand-in-hand. They are 2 faces of the same thing: intolerance and hatred. And they are often aligned, and mutually supportive.

    Republicans are unable to accept that their lies, corruption & deceits were rejected in recent elections. Their hysterical response helps to fuel the extremism of right-wing terrorist groups. This is a dangerous time for the US, likely even more than that presented from Muslim extremists.
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    Aug 18, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidHate groups and Republicans go hand-in-hand. They are 2 faces of the same thing: intolerance and hatred. And they are often aligned, and mutually supportive.

    Republicans are unable to accept that their lies, corruption & deceits were rejected in recent elections. Their hysterical response helps to fuel the extremism of right-wing terrorist groups. This is a dangerous time for the US, likely even more than that presented from Muslim extremists.


    So if this is a dangerous time in the USA... why are we allowing unknown men with weapons in the presence of the President of the United States!
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    Aug 18, 2009 6:12 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you saidSo if this is a dangerous time in the USA... why are we allowing unknown men with weapons in the presence of the President of the United States!

    I don't know this issue -- do you have some links?

    I don't know who the "we" are who are allowing weapons near the President. I do believe this is a dangerous time on many levels: politically, socially, and also in terms of acts of terrorism, against the US public and its elected leaders. And the Republicans are fanning the flames, for purely selfish political gain. I think we all see that, except, of course, for blind Republican partisans here.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 18, 2009 6:30 PM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidHate groups and Republicans go hand-in-hand.


    You are correct, except for the hate groups against Israel. They are always Democrats.
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    Aug 18, 2009 7:01 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you saidShouldn't a more important question to be asked; i.e, why are you allowing a man with a gun who is not part of the security detail to be in the presence of the president?



    From the reports I have read they have not been in the presence of the President but outside of the buildings where he has events.

    Though, make no mistake, this is not a gun issue. These aren't hunting rifles, but are assault rifles designed to kill human beings. They are there to intimidate, just like the Taliban is doing now during Afghanistan's elections.
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    Aug 18, 2009 7:31 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Blackguy4you saidShouldn't a more important question to be asked; i.e, why are you allowing a man with a gun who is not part of the security detail to be in the presence of the president?



    From the reports I have read they have not been in the presence of the President but outside of the buildings where he has events.

    Though, make no mistake, this is not a gun issue. These aren't hunting rifles, but are assault rifles designed to kill human beings. They are there to intimidate, just like the Taliban is doing now during Afghanistan's elections.


    In his presence- outside the meeting hall. Too damn close in my opinion, anyway I look at it
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    Aug 18, 2009 7:47 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    Though, make no mistake, this is not a gun issue. These aren't hunting rifles, but are assault rifles designed to kill human beings. They are there to intimidate, just like the Taliban is doing now during Afghanistan's elections.


    Preach. It's typical white panic cloaked as gun rights. Most 2nd Amendment nutjobs aren't really fighting for the rights for weapons for REAL hunting. They want to keep their xenophobic doomsday scenario cache of assault weapons.

    I grew up in the OH/WV/KY tristate part of Appalachia. That area has thousands of these people. I encountered a lot of them through my dad's farm. Many of them raised their own animals and so they needed hay/grains...which we sold. There were some doozies.

    I knew a guy who'd been building and then maintaining a bunker in the side of a mountain (next to his trailer no less) since the mid 80s. At first he feared commies...by the mid 90s he feared his own government - socialized health care, black helicopters, etc. (The Republicans did a good job of transferring Red fear into fear of Others and our own government.)

    The last time I spoke to him was the summer after the Oklahoma City bombing. He was convinced - through the newsletters and such those groups circulated back in the day - that the federal building McVeigh bombed was the home of some sort of conspiracy, etc. (A lot of the paranoia surrounded medical experiments, etc. Very X-Files type paranoia for a lot of them. Complete mistrust in government, diverting their attention as corporations took over the country and the world.) I asked him how that justified killing all those innocent government workers and kids. He completely flew off the handle about taxes and those people were in on it, etc. Completely nuts. I told my dad he'd do well to not trust having that guy around the farm, what with all the chemicals we stocked.

    But really, so much of it is, frankly, white fear. Fear of the other, fear of blacks, etc. Almost all of them I knew were blatant racists and xenophobes. (Although it was only later on I started to see religion creeping into it. In the 80s and early 90s most of them didn't care for religion, but as evangelical stuff made advances and became political in the late 90s, the freepers seemed to latch onto it and add the Bible to the canon of justifications for their lunacy.)

    To this day, I cannot relate to or understand that fear. So what if the US becomes a white minority country. How is that a bad thing? It's quite bizarre and irrational. But then, fear usually is.
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    Aug 18, 2009 8:03 PM GMT
    jprichva saidWell, not always. The white supremacists are usually Republican, and they still hate Jews as much as ever.

    Republicans generally are about hating people: gays, Jews, non-Christians, anyone not like themselves.

    Now some Republicans here will protest: "But I'm not like that! I'm even gay myself!"

    Perhaps you are, but you are aligning yourself with a political party that has declared itself anti-gay, in its party platform and by the statements of its senior elected leaders. You can hang onto some Republican policies that you imagine (likely wrongly) help you financially or in some other narrowly selfish way, but Republicans want gays gone & destroyed, period. They have said so, they have written so, they have legislated so, this is not a matter in dispute.

    So why would any gay man call himself a Republican, and support their agenda? Self-hate comes to mind, masochism and self-loathing, and a misplaced sense of identity and selfish interest. Certainly no interest in gay pride or advancement could ever induce an American gay to support the Republican Party. Indeed, I would challenge any Republican to dare call himself a gay, without committing the worst oxymoron.
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    Aug 18, 2009 8:12 PM GMT
    This will always be a problem. This is what is happening in America as we speak. To focus this towards us, I see fewer and fewer gay men coming out - at all. Like these online militia groups (who generally foam at the mouth about whatever is bothering them, they rarely will act on it) a lot of closeted guys are enjoying the best of both - jerking off to pictures of naked straight college athletes, remaining totally anonymous, and never acknowledging their homosexuality - all in the comforts of their own home. I saw this starting a few years ago when guys in various gay sites refused to not only post their photos, but refused to even talk about anything unless it involved receiving naked pictures of other men. Thousands upon thousands of guys like this now. They watch what's going on in the chat rooms and say to themselves 'nope, I want no part in this whatsoever, I'm going to say nothing to nobody and just keep my mouth shut and enjoy the pictures.' Thus putting off growing up and coming out, which will now put the age at when most gay men get their shit together at about 45-50 because sooner or later you will come to a crossroads where you either 'can't live another day like this' or you end up believing your own lies, getting married to a woman, having kids, and having to live with that for the rest of your life. Things are changing - society is not as forgiving of those choices as they were a dozen years ago or so. People know that closeted gays have choices and if they choose to harm other people (straight women or other gay men) then they won't get much sympathy from either side; in fact they will face their wrath.

    I think that online sites and groups are great to explore your thoughts and fantasies, no matter what they are (because they won't just go away) but with these fanatical right-wing hate groups it only adds fuel to their fire - it only makes them angrier but I'm not yet convinced they will really do anything en masse. What's disappointing is that I am seeing more homophobia among young people when I think we had expected that, with more exposure to gay people at younger ages, young people would have been more tolerant, and that's just not what is happening overall; and the whole coming out wave that was expected to happen never really did. We still have a lot to learn but that's a good thing. At least with the internet it can all be studied and revisited years later.
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    Aug 18, 2009 8:22 PM GMT
    The wackos who do these hateful acts, aren't "Republican" they are ultra conservative. There is a difference between Conservative, and Republican, there are also Conservative Democrats, and Liberal Republicans.

    There are corrupt Republicans, as well as corrupt Democrats, and well there are far left nut bags who do/say hateful stuff as well, as the far right nut bags, each carry things out in a different way, but I don't look at one group as being worse than the next, they are both bad.

    Trying to paint an entire political party as a "hate group" is not only unfair, but very very misguided, ignorant, and narrow minded, being that the Republican party has many within them, that aren't all white, its also funny to see how some Democrat Liberals, are so quick to tear them down, and or even throw racism at them, in subtle snide ways. Is that ALL the Democrats? Nope just basically saying not all of one party is one thing.

    And by the way, those hardcore wacko right wing nut bags, also hated McCain, they also hate Micheal Steele, As well as Sarah Palin... And by the way, the man in charge of the whole little militia Tim McVeigh was apart of. Was working with Muslim extremist. And trust me there are very liberal nut bags out there who hate Obama. Anyone who deals in the extreme on either side deals in hate, and I look at both of em as irrelevant garbage.

    I think you guys need to read a book I believe is coming out soon (should actually be out now) , it was just translated into English,(I read the French version, gonna check out the English when I see it) called "The coming Insurrection" which is basically filled with a crap load of hateful far left ideology, and the violence they have planned. But again do I think all Liberals are like that? Not at all.

    Both the far left, and the far right have a lot in common, both take a lot from Nazi/Islamic Fascist philosophy, as well as communist. Both accept, and tolerate you, if you are as they believe you should be, and both have very distorted, and or empty views of god, and no respect for human life.

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Aug 18, 2009 8:30 PM GMT
    antelope saidYeah, its the right that has been doing the bombing and shootings for the last 40 years or so. SDS I think were the last left terrorists. Oklahoma city, the killing of the MD in Wichita, all the loons with guns at Obama events.



    The "loon" in Wichita was an absolute fanatic right winger.
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    Aug 18, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
    Rad_d81 saidThe wackos who do these hateful acts, aren't "Republican" they are ultra conservative. There is a difference between Conservative, and Republican, there are also Conservative Democrats, and Liberal Republicans.

    What you fail to acknowledge is that Republicans are silent about these hateful acts. So long as they advance and help the Republican Party, Republicans exploit them for political gain. You know this to be true.

    So why should Republicans be exempt from criticisms of the ultra conservatives? They use them for their purposes, and fail to oppose & rebuke them, yet their Republican skirts are clean? I don't think so.

    Get into bed with thieves, and you are a thief. Encourage and benefit from radical right-wingers, and you are the same as they are. I know Republicanism is rife with hypocrisy (can you say family values?), but are you seriously saying that Republicans are not aligned with the worst elements of conservative and Christian extremism?
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Aug 18, 2009 8:47 PM GMT
    Yeah, Democrats just love everybody icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 18, 2009 9:45 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    Timberoo saidYeah, Democrats just love everybody icon_rolleyes.gif

    That's just silly, Tim. Of course the Democrats don't love everybody. But they don't make hating anyone part of their official party platform either. Or the centerpiece of their electoral strategy.

    Yes, let's not forget that in 2004, the Republicans, working from the playbook of Carl Rove in the Bush White House, made gays and gay marriage the Great Evil to be stopped. Are your memories so short?

    That was the Crusade upon which Republicans embarked, the defeat of the wicked Gay Agenda. Please tell me you haven't forgotten your own history so quickly. May I have some "Amens" from our RJ members who haven't lost their memories after just a few short years?

    The modern Republican Party is built upon hate & fear, in a tradition that goes back to the Communist witch hunts of the early 1950s, and the McCarthy hearings. What we see today is really no change, entirely in that model going back decades.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 18, 2009 9:56 PM GMT
    Rage is so easily misdirected.
  • coolarmydude

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    Aug 18, 2009 10:18 PM GMT
    antelope saidYeah, its the right that has been doing the bombing and shootings for the last 40 years or so. SDS I think were the last left terrorists. Oklahoma city, the killing of the MD in Wichita, all the loons with guns at Obama events.




    That's actually false. Take the Earth Liberation Front for example. Even the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers could be grouped as leftist/left wing fringe terrorists.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Aug 18, 2009 10:21 PM GMT
    olden saidIt is a pendulum thing. Today it is the right-wing whackos. In the 70s it was the Left - Students for a Democratic Society, the Simbianese Liberation Army, the Black Panthers, etc. In the 1890-1910 period it was the "Wobblies" or unions that did the bombing and burning. In the 1770s it was the Sons of Liberty. In the early 18th Century it was the Luddites who opposed the Industrial Revolution. In the 16th Century it was those pesky Protestants. And in the 2nd Century it was those pesky Christians. We have alwyas had our dissenters and thank God we do. If we did not, we would all be subjects of Xerxes CLXXVII.



    Quoted as a caveat!