Video: People in LA protesting Healthcare Reform while others wait hours to receive medical care at the LA Forum. You decide...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 2:22 PM GMT
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 2:43 PM GMT
    My personal favorite: "Its a republic, not a democracy!"

    WTF!?
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 21, 2009 4:27 PM GMT
    I'd love to see some of the Universal Healthcare Haters post a response to this.
    I've met that Latino guy here in Los Angeles. He's really out there.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 6:39 PM GMT
    There is a fundamental question that lies under any discussion concerning healthcare. That is: who is responsible for paying for health care? This question also defines the dividing line between those who think government, through the collection of taxes, should provide universal health care and those who think we are responsible for ourselves.

    Having said that, keep in mind we currently have a health care program for those who can not afford health care: it's called medicaid. Further, if you look at any large city -- Atlanta being an example and the city in which I grew up -- there is always a publically supported hospital. In Atlanta it is Grady Memorial.

    I full well understand that there are many guys here on RJ who believe it is my responsibility, being on in a position of welath, to pay an additional tax to fund all this. Let me assure you however that will never come to pass. There will be no need to evade taxes because I simply will ot have income.

    If there is socilaism in this country it is the clap trap from guys like the ones here on RJ who believe I should pay the tax to provide what they will not or can not.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 6:55 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    twomack saidI full well understand that there are many guys here on RJ who believe it is my responsibility, being on in a position of welath, to pay an additional tax to fund all this. Let me assure you however that will never come to pass. There will be no need to evade taxes because I simply will ot have income.

    If there is socilaism in this country it is the clap trap from guys like the ones here on RJ who believe I should pay the tax to provide what they will not or can not.

    You are a textbook example of everything that's gone wrong in our culture and our country.


    Thank you. I am a businessman, not a looter who always sees his salvation in the work of someone else.

    You know what one does when he retreats a loosing battle? He burns everything to the ground in his path of retreat. I am more than capable of that when the enemy I see is the filth in all this.
  • metta

    Posts: 39167

    Aug 21, 2009 7:51 PM GMT
    I am a businessman as well but I support National Healthcare. Actually, having a National Healthcare plan could be good for business. It could especially help to make us more competitive on an international basis. Take the responsibility of businesses having to pay for it while making sure that people never have to worry about losing it, losing their homes because they are underinsured, or are just not getting covered because the for profit healthcare company is trying to maximize their profits and look for loopholes to cancel policies or not approve treatment. Those are all things that people should not have to worry about when they are dealing with health issues.

    My best friend had medicare for his kidney transplant for kidney problems that he had since he was a child. I was totally willing to pay for private insurance for him but his doctor recommended against it becuase he said that he would have been dead already if he was on a private insurance plan. He would not have been able to get the approval of treatments that he needed on the private insurance plans. He has since past on but I'm thankful that we had the years that we did together. I don't trust private insurance. Yes, I have it. I have never used it and do not feel comfortable with the idea of ever having to use privatre insurance.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 21, 2009 7:52 PM GMT
    twomack saidThere is a fundamental question that lies under any discussion concerning healthcare. That is: who is responsible for paying for health care? This question also defines the dividing line between those who think government, through the collection of taxes, should provide universal health care and those who think we are responsible for ourselves.

    Having said that, keep in mind we currently have a health care program for those who can not afford health care: it's called medicaid. Further, if you look at any large city -- Atlanta being an example and the city in which I grew up -- there is always a publically supported hospital. In Atlanta it is Grady Memorial.

    I full well understand that there are many guys here on RJ who believe it is my responsibility, being on in a position of welath, to pay an additional tax to fund all this. Let me assure you however that will never come to pass. There will be no need to evade taxes because I simply will ot have income.

    If there is socilaism in this country it is the clap trap from guys like the ones here on RJ who believe I should pay the tax to provide what they will not or can not.
    Well I think common ground can be agreed on that it is in everyone's best interest to have a healthy population and to "promote the general welfare" of American society as a whole.

    Health care in this country is very expensive and often does not provide good results.

    I see it less that the "government getting involved" as it providing a space wherein patients and doctors can make the best decisions for health and have resources to support those choices.

    To say to someone who is HIV positive, for example: "Hey, stand on your own. Buy all your meds with your own money or die trying" is untenable and uncompassionate. BigPharma is in the business of making money, not providing health.

    The current system also drains money out of individuals and much of it goes to line the pockets of insurance companies, resources which could be better spent.

    The "I've got mine.", attitude ignores the fact that you live in a community with other human beings.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 8:06 PM GMT
    twomack said
    If there is socilaism in this country it is the clap trap from guys like the ones here on RJ who believe I should pay the tax to provide what they will not or can not.


    If?

    Public schools, public transportation, public parks, public libraries, public law & safety enforcement. Socialism has been in this country for awhile.

    So the next time you renew Mein Kampf at your local library, remember you could be denying Americans the right to a life-saving shot of penicillin because of you're misunderstanding of what socialism really is.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 8:20 PM GMT
    Well doesn't Medicaid have income limits? I'm sure there are tons of people that make too much but at the same time not enough...

    Millions of people fall in that category for a whole slue of programs that are designed to be helping hands.
  • cowboyathlete

    Posts: 1346

    Aug 21, 2009 8:26 PM GMT
    SD_92101 saidWell doesn't Medicaid have income limits? I'm sure there are tons of people that make too much but at the same time not enough...

    Millions of people fall in that category for a whole slue of programs that are designed to be helping hands.
    You are correct about Medicaid having income limits, and that many make too much to qualify and yet not enough to buy insurance on their own. Furthermore, each state sets their own income limits for Medicaid eligibility.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 9:37 PM GMT
    cowboyathlete said
    SD_92101 saidWell doesn't Medicaid have income limits? I'm sure there are tons of people that make too much but at the same time not enough...

    Millions of people fall in that category for a whole slue of programs that are designed to be helping hands.
    You are correct about Medicaid having income limits, and that many make too much to qualify and yet not enough to buy insurance on their own. Furthermore, each state sets their own income limits for Medicaid eligibility.


    Yeah I thought it varied state to state...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 10:02 PM GMT
    metta8 saidI am a businessman as well but I support National Healthcare. Actually, having a National Healthcare plan could be good for business. It could especially help to make us more competitive on an international basis. Take the responsibility of businesses having to pay for it while making sure that people never have to worry about losing it, losing their homes because they are underinsured, or are just not getting covered because the for profit healthcare company is trying to maximize their profits and look for loopholes to cancel policies or not approve treatment. Those are all things that people should not have to worry about when they are dealing with health issues.

    My best friend had medicare for his kidney transplant for kidney problems that he had since he was a child. I was totally willing to pay for private insurance for him but his doctor recommended against it becuase he said that he would have been dead already if he was on a private insurance plan. He would not have been able to get the approval of treatments that he needed on the private insurance plans. He has since past on but I'm thankful that we had the years that we did together. I don't trust private insurance. Yes, I have it. I have never used it and do not feel comfortable with the idea of ever having to use privatre insurance.


    I have it as well, an HMO, Kaiser Permanente of California. My main focus is to take preventive action. Live a healthy life style to mitigate serious issues if possible. When I get older in age I will switch to a PPO before I develop serious issues, but for now, I need coverage for immunizations and preventive medicine and catastrophic accidents. Luckily I have VA coverage so that is a plan B or C I suppose.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 21, 2009 10:10 PM GMT
    Thanks to da GOPicon_twisted.gif
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 22, 2009 12:54 AM GMT
    tryandbuy said
    twomack said
    If there is socilaism in this country it is the clap trap from guys like the ones here on RJ who believe I should pay the tax to provide what they will not or can not.


    If?

    Public schools, public transportation, public parks, public libraries, public law & safety enforcement. Socialism has been in this country for awhile.

    So the next time you renew Mein Kampf at your local library, remember you could be denying Americans the right to a life-saving shot of penicillin because of you're misunderstanding of what socialism really is.
    And that's all somewhat tongue-in-cheek. Socialism is a political term that has nothing to do with organizing for the common good.
    I believe that the role is government to do for others what they cannot do for themselves. If someone does not have insurance (or even if they do), they often go bankrupt paying medical bills. Who does this serve other than insurance companies?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 1:35 AM GMT
    SD_92101 saidMy personal favorite: "Its a republic, not a democracy!"

    WTF!?


    You said it was your favorite, but not why. Technically the US is a republic, not a democracy, but is it the argument that he makes in declaring that that makes you laugh? Am i detecting sarcasm here LOL. I am only asking because I am not sure that I understand why this is your favorite.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 3:04 AM GMT
    twomack said Further, if you look at any large city -- Atlanta being an example and the city in which I grew up -- there is always a publically supported hospital. In Atlanta it is Grady Memorial..


    It must be some time since you lived in Atlanta because Grady has been plagued by one financial crisis after another in recent years. It was on the verge of closing about a year ago. It is not at all adequate to meet the needs of the poor here.

    The fact that public hospitals are available is not in any case an argument against reform. Their existence acknowledges the right to health care and their incredibly overburdened status demonstrates the need for effective reform. It is fascinating the way many people want to maintain a social hierarchy in the delivery of health care.

    Here is the Independent's story about the LA event. Of course, you had to go to media outside the country to get a clear picture of what was happening:

    http://tinyurl.com/r2fbxc







  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:13 AM GMT
    xuaerb said
    SD_92101 saidMy personal favorite: "Its a republic, not a democracy!"

    WTF!?


    You said it was your favorite, but not why. Technically the US is a republic, not a democracy, but is it the argument that he makes in declaring that that makes you laugh? Am i detecting sarcasm here LOL. I am only asking because I am not sure that I understand why this is your favorite.



    It's my favorite because we are a republic that is constituted by a democratically elected representative body. It is true though that we are not a direct democracy which is good because we'd never get anything done that way.

    Clearly Joe Nobody needs to take a high school US Government class or hell how about a basic grade school Social Studies class.... (here's sarcasm for you: Maybe he was taught by intelligent design... lol) what a joke!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:19 AM GMT
    I remember when I was 11 or 12 and I had a severe fever about 104 or 105 and my mom, an employee of a hospital who had family health insurance, took me to the children's hospital and I wasn't seen for about 4-5 hours. The only thing they did immediately was give me aspirin only to find out my mom's health insurance didn't cover the visit... at least that's the story I remember.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 22, 2009 4:23 AM GMT
    ObsceneWish said
    twomack said Further, if you look at any large city -- Atlanta being an example and the city in which I grew up -- there is always a publically supported hospital. In Atlanta it is Grady Memorial..


    It must be some time since you lived in Atlanta because Grady has been plagued by one financial crisis after another in recent years. It was on the verge of closing about a year ago. It is not at all adequate to meet the needs of the poor here.

    The fact that public hospitals are available is not in any case an argument against reform. Their existence acknowledges the right to health care and their incredibly overburdened status demonstrates the need for effective reform. It is fascinating the way many people want to maintain a social hierarchy in the delivery of health care.

    Here is the Independent's story about the LA event. Of course, you had to go to media outside the country to get a clear picture of what was happening:

    http://tinyurl.com/r2fbxc



    Thanks for posting that great article. Those who stand in the way of offering the most basic and fundamental of assistance to those in need should be ashamed of themselves.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:25 AM GMT
    This whole bit about socialism is a crock of shit! The USG is obligated to do something!

    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. -Preamble to the US Constitution

    Hmmm... What's not socialistic about that? What is so evil about that?

    Get it together people!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:28 AM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidWe have protest in Phoenix few weeks ago and four days ago. You LA people are slow. lol


    "We have protest... few weeks ago and four days ago?" Someone needs to retake an english class for grammar's sake!

    We may be slow but our mastery of the english language is a bit more advanced. LMAO!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:28 AM GMT
    I support health care reform, sending everyone who dosent have insurance to the ER isnt a very good system.
  • swimbikerun

    Posts: 2835

    Aug 22, 2009 4:29 AM GMT
    ctrutle1 saidI support health care reform, sending everyone who dosent have insurance to the ER isnt a very good system.
    Hitler said the same thing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:40 AM GMT
    swimbikerun said
    ctrutle1 saidI support health care reform, sending everyone who dosent have insurance to the ER isnt a very good system.
    Hitler said the same thing.


    You know what Swimbikerun? I'm sure Hitler also said "I love you" to his wife and his children. DAMN! Now love is evil because Hitler said it!?!?! WTF? Nothing is sacred!

    LOOK just because Hitler said I support health care reform (paraphrased or not) doesn't mean that everyone else who succeeds him in the course of human history who also supports health care reform is going to march millions of people off to the incinerator and bring the world to the within an inch of its life! Besides, that is a lame excuse to do nothing about our health care crisis.

    You need to think more intelligently than that and think about the repercussions of saying such nonsense. Furthermore, you need to see with better eyes than that rather than relying on your current eye prescription of fear and irrationality.


    Jeez... DEATH PANELS!!! ...and WWE wrestling is real! icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 22, 2009 4:46 AM GMT
    SD_92101 saidMy personal favorite: "Its a republic, not a democracy!"

    WTF!?


    Well, it isn't a democracy. It is a Federal Constitutional Republic. Very different.