Right Wing Zealots by Frank Rich

  • Koaa2

    Posts: 1556

    Aug 23, 2009 11:42 AM GMT
    Excellent Article by Frank Rich on the current atmosphere of the Republican Right Wing and its crazy supporters.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/opinion/23rich.html
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 23, 2009 12:26 PM GMT
    Every word of it true

    But while we laugh at them and report that they are nuts
    ... which they are
    These people are extremely dangerous and have shown us many times before they are willing to die and kill people for their delusional thoughts
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    Aug 23, 2009 12:29 PM GMT
    lets not forget it is a very fine line that devides the left wing Zealots, and the right wing.

    Once it was Hitler and Starlin, and as history shows us, it was a very fine line that divided those two, one on the left ,and the other on the right.
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    Aug 23, 2009 1:42 PM GMT
    Ori_ saidlets not forget it is a very fine line that devides the left wing Zealots, and the right wing.

    Once it was Hitler and Starlin, and as history shows us, it was a very fine line that divided those two, one on the left ,and the other on the right.


    Absolute nonsense. There are not and never have been left wing Senators or Congressmen in the US who have defended extremism.

    Trying to take Hitler or Stalin as representative of a putative global "right" or "left" is nonsensical.

    Your posts become ever more deranged.
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    Aug 23, 2009 1:55 PM GMT
    Better check your facts before you make that statement, TigerTim.

    You might start will the names of Bill Ayres (founder of the SDS) and his connection and friendship with Senator Barack Obama. Ayres said he would never apologize for the bombings he was responsible for nor will he ever apologize.

    Wasn't Bobby Seale (former Black Panther) a member of Congress?

    I would hate for such a nice looking guy like you to be proven wrong.

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    Aug 23, 2009 2:04 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidYour posts become ever more deranged.

    Yet never lack in offensiveness, either. Ori/God/Matey/Pattison wants to claim his connection with "Oz" but cannot resist lecturing us about issues specific to the US, as in this Rich article.

    I would not dare presume to make comments about the politics of Australia & New Zealand. Indeed, I believe most US men have a very favorable opinion of those "down under." Maybe it's the similarities of our British colonial and frontier roots, maybe the belief that like us they drink beer till they burst, or go equally crazy over sports, I dunno. But Americans like them.

    What I do NOT like is being lectured by someone with no credentials about my country, and clearly little suitable learning. Some people are referred to as being an "ambassador for their country." Here, I think, is an example of someone who is an embarrassment to his country, as least as far as this American is concerned.
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    Aug 23, 2009 2:17 PM GMT
    I do not understand why he constantly comments on american life.

    is he a closet american a wannabe american or something?
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    Aug 23, 2009 2:23 PM GMT
    TexSportsNut saidBetter check your facts before you make that statement, TigerTim.

    You might start will the names of Bill Ayres (founder of the SDS) and his connection and friendship with Senator Barack Obama. Ayres said he would never apologize for the bombings he was responsible for nor will he ever apologize.

    Wasn't Bobby Seale (former Black Panther) a member of Congress?

    I would hate for such a nice looking guy like you to be proven wrong.



    you might want to google to your facts right. Bobby Seale was never a member of congress

    As for Ayres...lets look the the big picture and the illegal war that was going on during that time by Nixon as will as the spying on citizens.

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    Aug 23, 2009 2:41 PM GMT
    Having been familiar with many people on the radical right, one sentence of this article stood out to me:

    "What the right as a whole fears is the erosion of its own social position, the collapse of its power".

    And this is certainly true. The radical right today, mostly social conservatives and so called "originalists", see themselves as engaged in an ongoing and never ending culture war. They overestimate both their importance in shaping America's culture and the threat of cultural erosion brought by liberals.

    This type of person idolizes people like Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, whose idea of justice isn't so much doing what's right as it is preserving what he believes was the intent of the Founding Fathers.

    Had Scalia been on the court in the 50s, he would have predictably voted against Brown vs. Board of Education. Just as he would have voted against Griswold vs. Connecticut, which made birth control a private matter not subject to legal prohibition. He has also fought to overturn Roe vs. Wade and wrote a blistering dissent on Lawrence vs. Texas, which struck down sodomy laws. He wrote that Lawrence would make it more difficult to uphold laws against prostitution, incest, and bestiality.

    Some of these people, even someone as esteemed as a U.S. Supreme Court Justice, are borderline mentally ill. Some are simply disingenuous in their predictions.

    Most of these individuals are nothing more than cranks who post nonsense to their blogs and get on their soapbox within the echo chamber of a circle of other social conservatives. They're fond of histrionics. But collectively, they do have some influence. It's important to counter their histrionics with facts though.
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    Aug 23, 2009 3:09 PM GMT

    It will be interesting to see how this plays out. In the mean time, those who are capable of sustaining themselves through it all, just keep moving forward.
  • calibro

    Posts: 8888

    Aug 23, 2009 3:45 PM GMT
    unfortunately, the people who most need to read this are the ones who cause doubt in my mind about their ability to do just that
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    Aug 23, 2009 4:48 PM GMT
    One annoying tactic I hear in the media, echoed here, is when criticism is leveled against a right-wing movement/person/group/action, said right-wingers (and their apologists) will declare that The Left Does It As Well. What bullshit. This is what passes for debate? All Yin is okay because I can list three Yang?

    Fucktards are targeting abortion doctors. It's okay because of Bill Ayers? What is this, the Matrix, where every anomaly is balanced in the equation?

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    Aug 23, 2009 5:50 PM GMT
    I want to clear a few things up.

    TigerTim said that only right wing members of Congress support extremism and the left wing doesn't.

    I thought that was a broad brush statement.

    He might be right, but I would think that it would be a stretch to make that statement without stating which right wing Congresspersons have openly endorsed extremism from the right wing fringe.

    I also think it is reach to say that no left wing Congresspersons have not supported some form of left wing extremism at one time or another.

    I don't know if either is true or false. I was simply stating that one should check it out to see if such a statement was true or not.

    I did not say Bobby Seale was a member of Congress. I was asking the question was he, and even though I misspelled Mr. Ayers name and placed him with the wrong anti-war group, I did see and hear an interview he gave that said he would not apologize for his actions. Whether he apologizes or not doesn't matter to me one wit. He believes in using extremist actions for the causes he believes in.

    And whether Vietnam was illegal or not does not justify the use of violence. Timothy McVeigh thought Ruby Ridge was illegal and he killed 168 people in Oklahoma City in response to his belief. No extremist act is justifiable, no matter which cause you subscribed to.

    As to my radio and TV consumption it is rather eclectic. I like to hear and read from all sides. To me it is like eating fish. I pick out and eat the good meat and throw away the bones.

    I am a history wonk and from my study of history, no one side is without sin when it comes to extremism.
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    Aug 23, 2009 6:21 PM GMT
    TexSportsNut saidI am a history wonk and from my study of history, no one side is without sin when it comes to extremism.

    Do not ever speak history to me; you will lose. Never in United States history has one political party, the Republicans, been so partisan. The argument that "the others do it" or "everyone does it" is right out of the Karl Rove playbook.

    Sorry, but with some rare exceptions, what we are seeing now in American politics is a Republican innovation. This extremism is right-wing only. Attempts to draw left-wing examples are lame and invalid.

    It's time to call guys like you on this "everybody does it" ploy. No, YOU do it. YOU are the extremists disrupting town hall meetings over health care, YOU are the ones carrying guns to them, YOU are the ones disrupting the debate. Tactics identical to what the Nazis did in Germany in the 1920s and early 1930s, to silence and frighten their political opponents.

    I know my history far too well to be tricked by your lies & distortions. You picked the wrong forum.
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    Aug 23, 2009 7:47 PM GMT
    The very idea that the Left is as dangerous as the Right is hilarious. Perhaps that is the case in Europe, but for the most part, it's a deranged and hysterical right-wing that has been responsible for the majority of home-grown terror.

    Even is you wanted to compare the Weather Underground to McVeigh, the primary difference (and it's a moral one) is that the Weathermen did not purposefully kill other people. In fact, they picked targets that were not populated, or warned in advance so they could be evacuated.

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    Aug 23, 2009 10:48 PM GMT
    mickeytopogigio saidOne annoying tactic I hear in the media, echoed here, is when criticism is leveled against a right-wing movement/person/group/action, said right-wingers (and their apologists) will declare that The Left Does It As Well. What bullshit. This is what passes for debate? All Yin is okay because I can list three Yang?

    Fucktards are targeting abortion doctors. It's okay because of Bill Ayers? What is this, the Matrix, where every anomaly is balanced in the equation?



    Yes, it's like the idiocy that says you have to report "both sides" of an issue without comment, even if one of the sides is based on fiction. David Gregory, who now hosts Meet the Press, actually said that reporters don't have the responsibility to call out liars. And, in an email urging someone to appear on his show, he said: "coming on Meet The Press allows you to frame the conversation how you really want to...and then move on."

    There have of course been extremist groups on the left, like the Weathermen (which split off from SDS) and maybe the confrontational wing of the Black Panthers. They have never to my knowledge received the endorsement of the Democratic Party's elected leaders.

    I wonder why the right likes to assume that the left's leadership has been as supportive of extremism as the right's. My guess is that they'd otherwise have to ask why their ideology spawns so much lunacy.

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 23, 2009 11:19 PM GMT
    Obscene is absolutely right
    The extremist left ... which has been in the past for a significant length of time
    like the Weathermen were very Anti-Government and never endorsed any Presidential or Congressional candidates
    Unlike that on the right
    There is an implicit whispering agreement of rightwing legislators of the delusional campaigns the lunatic fringe puts out
    The Birther Movement
    Waco
    The John Birch Society
    Death Panels ....

    And when reporting a story the media needs to get a clue that both sides do not always have equal weight when weighing their significance
    ... because when they give us BOTH sides of the story they are usually perpetuating the lunacy that the right thrives on
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    Aug 23, 2009 11:31 PM GMT
    GQjock said
    There is an implicit whispering agreement of rightwing legislators of the delusional campaigns the lunatic fringe puts out
    The Birther Movement
    Waco
    The John Birch Society
    Death Panels ....

    To me, it's comical how a small fringe group of ultra-right wing loons will talk amongst themselves and convince themselves of a story, such as the Obama birth certificate story, that's either entirely concocted or highly distorted.

    And then, when the media doesn't give the story sufficient coverage, in their estimation, they hold this out as evidence of a "left wing media" that is covering for liberals and hiding the truth.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 23, 2009 11:46 PM GMT
    The thing IS when the Television media mainly is lazy and doesn't do their Due diligence
    They simply report what they are given
    investigative reporters have been laid off
    whole staffs have been let go

    The right wing relies on the fact that their claims are simply reported without someone saying WTF? icon_eek.gif

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    Aug 24, 2009 5:07 AM GMT
    Who does not remember the outpouring of liberal support of the Symbionese Liberation Army?

    hearstsla.jpg
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    Aug 24, 2009 5:40 AM GMT
    Thought it was weird when Patty showed up at a comedy roast...
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    Aug 24, 2009 6:08 AM GMT
    TexSportsNut saidBetter check your facts before you make that statement, TigerTim.

    You might start will the names of Bill Ayres (founder of the SDS) and his connection and friendship with Senator Barack Obama. Ayres said he would never apologize for the bombings he was responsible for nor will he ever apologize.


    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/he_lied_about_bill_ayers.html

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/04/us/politics/04ayers.html?scp=1&sq=obama%20ayers%20bomber&st=cse[/url]

    (I wish RealJock would fix the problem that occurs when you try to link longer url's.)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/opinion/06ayers.html

    Do you not see the huge difference between what Rich discusses in his column and the minimal interaction in a limited context that Obama did have with Ayres? Obama has condemned Ayres's past actions, while there are Republicans in Congress who are defending groups on the right that threaten violence. That's a huge difference, and that difference is the point.


  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 24, 2009 2:35 PM GMT
    How many times does something have to be put to rest before it's REALLY PUT TO REST?
    Bill Ayers was not and had never been an assoc of Barack Obama
    But like the nutcases who want him to be born in Kenya
    and the loons who say that FEMA has internment camps
    and the mentally insane who say that Obama's healthcare plan includes death panels
    Some people just cannot let go of a false notion
    So which is it?
    Is it something wrong with the grey matter of these republicans?


    ..... or are they continuing to propagate things they KNOW are lies because they cannot argue their point legitamately?

    I have a Sneaking suspicion that it might be the latter



  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Aug 24, 2009 2:51 PM GMT
    What we are witnessing today is the death spiral of right wing extremism. Any cornered creature, knowing that it's life is at stake, will fight with everything it has, absolutely wild in its instinct to preserve its own life. Angry white men, exemplified by Limbaugh and Buchanan, see the handwriting on the wall as well as anyone. Their dominance is at an end, and they will lash out, full of rage at their own impotence to stop the change sweeping our nation.

    This is not to say that damage will not be inflicted. One of them may actually get a shot off at the President before we are done...
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    Aug 24, 2009 2:54 PM GMT
    For a non-American nothing he says in the article comes as a shock. There has been an undercurrent of paranoia throughout US history (perhaps the founders being religious non-conformists escaping persecution in England has something to do with it).

    As for the US being troubled by left-wing zealots, I have not seen much evidence of that as yet. What Americans call "left-wing" most other countries would consider just left of centre, or Liberal.