OMAHA, THE SHOOTING

  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 06, 2007 1:37 PM GMT
    Most of you have heard about the shooting on Wednesday at the mall in Omaha, NE. It really affected people everywhere, but there were comments about this not being in New York or Chicago, this was in Nebraska at a mall like what we have in Wichita.

    I've often wondered, "What if there was a bomb or something like this" (a shooting)when I've been in a mall (or other public place). It is deeply disturbing. I just hope our society can deal with these situations more effectively. But how?

    Your thoughts?
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    Dec 06, 2007 2:24 PM GMT
    My theory is that we dont have enough Art education and cultivation to give people...esp young people...a deeper appreciation of life. Everything is science and business based. That is how worth is determined. If it doesn't hold value in a scientific or business way, then it isnt worth much. If Art ever does enter people lives, it isnt given much value. It is viewed as entertainment, and not enrichment of the person.

    Our right brains are being starved. And if we do throw it a crumb, the left brain doesnt register any accomplishment or satisfaction from it. We have an emotional side which is just as valid as our logical side...and needs to be integrated into our lives and being in order for us to be healthy individuals.
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    Dec 06, 2007 2:28 PM GMT
    since i never won any prize or lottery, I don't think i'm lucky enough to worry about anything else. Go enjoy a walk in hurricane, a leisure drive of deep icy snow, you only live once, worry won't change anything but handicap you.
    Life that never observe extreme won't appreciate it's norm.
  • jc_online

    Posts: 487

    Dec 06, 2007 3:31 PM GMT
    When talking with co-workers this morning about this tragedy we discussed the common thread of perps of this type of crime: young men who are angry or depressed, who do have the coping mechanisisms to deal with their feelings in healthy (or at least non-violent) ways.

    Columbine: young men
    Murrow Federal building: angry young men

    I'm sure there are many other examples, and smaller, less publicized events.

    As a society, we are missing something in the education of these young men. They are shutting down, and then resorting to violence once it's too late for them to process their feelings in a healthy way - their desperation leads to this type of event - although there are surely many other co-factors.

    There's a great organization in Maine that is working with young men, check out www.boystomen.org
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    Dec 06, 2007 3:37 PM GMT
    I just moved from Omaha to New York in July. It's been very surreal watching the footage here and talking to New Yorkers about Omaha. One thing I haven't heard mentioned yet is that Von Maur is the only shop in the Westroads Mall that does not have a metal detector and it has a separate entrance, which is how the shooter was able to get the gun into the store.

    I'm still trying to find out the names of the victims, but haven't been able to do so. Have any of you heard more?
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Dec 06, 2007 4:53 PM GMT
    I talked to a good friend of mine in Omaha this morning (who works about 2 miles from the mall in question). He told me no release of names has been made yet.
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    Dec 06, 2007 5:25 PM GMT
    It's truly heartbreaking in any case, but it seems that these sorts of mass shootings only seem to happen in smaller communities, like at Columbine and Blacksburg (Virginia Tech). There seems to be an atmosphere of discontent among these young men in these places.

    I live in such a place, and there is a mixture of religion, piety, and a closed-off personality of people who expect people to accept the status quo. There is little room for people who are different or who don't fit in. There needs to be some sort of review of this sort of situation.
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    Dec 06, 2007 5:53 PM GMT
    I think we as a people see the warning signs way before hand and we chose not see it for what it is RED FLAGS!

    Each of these cases it always comes out later:

    About how things were said, I'm going to do this a or an assult weapon is exposed.

    I could go on.

    What would you do if someone you know did these things would you report it?

    I just read how this young man displayed the assult rifle to a family that he was staying with and it was dismissed as "Oh I thought it was too old to work and he must have gotton it from a family member.

    I am not saying by any means that these people are reponsible, that lies on the shooter alone.

    What I am saying when the Red Flags are there we have to get involved.

    If we do not then this will continue to happen.

    We have to take action before this happen and not afterwards.

    There are far to many guns in our culture....

    This is TRAGIC! My hearts and Prayers to all in involved even the shooter and his family because they are as much a victim as families who have lost loved one as well.


    Good Lord!icon_cry.gif
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    Dec 06, 2007 6:11 PM GMT
    It's very easy to think, "It couldn't happen here." It's also very hard to put the pieces together until after something happens. 15-20 years ago an ex-boyfriend committed suicide and none of us who knew him suspected anything. However, once we started talking we realized each of us held a piece of the puzzle but didn't have enough information to piece things together.

    The shooter had to have been planning it for a while. Von Maur is easy to enter and there is an elevator right inside the door. He must have taken the elevator or stairs up to the third floor, knowing he wouldn't be stopped. The store has an open area in the middle where you can view the first and second floors - giving him access to victims throughout the store.

    We need to make it more difficult for people to obtain guns and to enter places with concealed weapons. Omaha did pass a law restricting concealed weapons, but obviously there needs to be more to it.

    What I'll never understand why these people want to be famous - or infamous - for killing a bunch of innocent victims.
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    Dec 06, 2007 6:30 PM GMT
    As the saying goes, "there's no such thing as bad publicity"?

    If you feel tiny and dispossessed and hopeless, any sort of fame will do. And if you're untalented and undereducated, with few life prospects and no self-esteem, what other avenue to fame is there?
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    Dec 06, 2007 7:34 PM GMT
    CaslonMy theory is that we dont have enough Art education and cultivation to give people...esp young people...a deeper appreciation of life


    Apparenly, some young artists don't get it either. Check out this link about a bomb scare last week during an AIDS benefit at the Royal Ontario Museum in Toronto.

    http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2007/11/30/4697180-sun.html
  • jc_online

    Posts: 487

    Dec 06, 2007 7:36 PM GMT
    not to be glib about the situation, but in response to jprichva's question, what about Congress?
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    Dec 06, 2007 7:47 PM GMT
    Thanks, JC Online, I needed that laugh! icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 06, 2007 8:02 PM GMT
    JC--

    You know the old joke...

    "If the opposite of pro is con,
    then is the opposite of progress...Congress?"
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    Dec 06, 2007 8:13 PM GMT
    Tragedy but it what can you really do to prevent this?

    There are always bad apples, not matter how well you tend the tree.

    The only answer some people try to use is to regulate the guns. Restricting our rights when the killer could just as easily make a bomb. Not the answer.
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    Dec 06, 2007 8:25 PM GMT
    I disagree totally with you trance. We need to do away with these types of guns. This kid was able to kill 9 epople and himself in a few minutes. Without semiautomatic wheapons he could never have done this. It takes a lot more skill and planning to make a bomb. The columbine kids were not able to detonate their bombs, but they killed a bunch of kids and a teacher with their guns.

    I have lots of friends in Omaha and hope the are ok
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    Dec 06, 2007 8:35 PM GMT
    The Columbine kids also used some legal gun types.

    Eliminating guns takes away the most important aspect of the problem. Responsibility. We are responsible for our actions as well as our protection. If you fear such an event then arm yourself and hope your state doesn't try to take away that right.
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    Dec 06, 2007 9:03 PM GMT
    Trance,

    Are you saying that we should all walk armed with guns????

    This is not the wild west!

    What is a 19 year doing with a semi-autmatic weapon???

    Who gave it to him and why?

    There does need to some type of gun control. It will never happen because the NRA is way to powerful!

    Not to worry Trance your guns are safe for now!

    As long as we a gun carrying nation....these events will continue to unfold.

    Tragic!
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    Dec 06, 2007 9:25 PM GMT
    If he is above the legal age he can buy guns himself. Or he could have been given them, which might itself be illegal because there is a tax associated with some weapons.

    Or he could have just used any number of other methods to kill people. Or illegally bought a gun if they were restricted.

    Ducky44 - Much of Europe has heavy gun restriction. Yet has their gun crime rate decreased in the recent years? If you google it you'll find their gun crimes rates have increased since restriction on weapons.

    And as for all carrying guns It a right every citizen can enjoy. I would myself, if it weren't for the fact both my school and my parents don't allow it. Currently I carry pepper spray and plan on gun ownership once I graduate.
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    Dec 06, 2007 9:56 PM GMT
    Trance,

    SIGH!icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Dec 06, 2007 10:06 PM GMT
    It seems that in our society, there is a tendency to look towards the government to solve problems related to anti-social behavior and violent crime. Unfortunately, changes in public policy are usually nothing more than a band-aid. Perhaps the question should be what can we, as individuals, do to prevent at risk youth from lashing out. I suspect this young man never had positive role models in his life and probably felt worthless. His parents essentially disposed of him by kicking him out of the house. If someone (from the Big Brother program, for example) had came into his life a few years ago, giving him a bit of encouragement... I just wonder if he could have found his way through life without running into such a horrible conclusion.

    This is so tragic. Obviously, we'll always have bad apples, and there is no easy answer. But I can't help but feel that, as individuals, we have more power than we realize, and can make a big difference.
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    Dec 06, 2007 10:11 PM GMT
    Trance is right on this one though, as much as I dislike the idea of everyone being armed.

    If someone really wants to get some guns and ammo and tear apart a shopping mall (school, post office, ect.) they'll find a way.

    Do you think that if they're considering murder they really give a rats ass about the legality of owning and using certain guns?

    As far as the actual shooting... Why this store didn't have metal detectors is beyond me. How he also was able to go from the door way to the third floor without security noticing he was walking around with a semiautomatic is even more out there.

    This mall is usually crawling with security. I can't go there without seeing at least half a dozen wandering around.
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    Dec 06, 2007 11:14 PM GMT
    Sad story. I think we just don't value life enough as a country any more. That is why we have these types of happenings in America. Doesn't seem to matter the age of the person either. Remember the age of the main shooter in the DC snipper case.
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    Dec 06, 2007 11:57 PM GMT
    This is exactly what I was talking about in one of my other threads. This is the same kind of psychopathic alienation that has become a silent epidemic. This is the same kind of madness that compells all of us who have nothing to lash out at all of those whom we percieve as having everthing. This man was hurting for a long time before he did this, so was Cho Seung Hui, Eric Harris, Kip Kinkle, et al.

    It is easy for you socially integrated people to stand up there in your complacent socially integrated utopia and lament the victims of this incident, but at the same time you know, live, and work with anomic people who are so socially and emotionally alienated that they just don't have anything, or can't see anything beyond their own misery. Hatred, frustration, loneliness, hopelessness, existential angst, and even insight into their situation, all lead to "the hour of great contempt" as Nietzsche would call it. It is a critical make-or-break hour where you either let go and surpass yourself and grow, or you self destruct.

    If our society was more interdependent with more tightly integrated family and community networks, these things wouldn't happen. This boy had the soul sickness too:



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 07, 2007 12:27 AM GMT
    ABSOLUTELY! It take a village to raise a child!