first recorded same-sex couple in history

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 24, 2009 11:49 PM GMT
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_&_Niankhkhnum

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    Aug 25, 2009 12:03 AM GMT
    wushu18t saidhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khnumhotep_&_Niankhkhnum



    Very nifty icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 25, 2009 12:25 AM GMT
    How very interesting! Thank you! I have never heard of this before, though I have some slight knowledge of Egyptian pharaonic history. "Overseer of the Manicurists" would seem about right... LOL!

    In fact, it is so stereotypical, I have to wonder if this is really correct. I suppose hairstylists would be even more obvious, but I would appreciate a better source than Wikipedia.

    As for 2 men holding hands in a wall mural, that could be seen as friendship, or making some pact or agreement. Their lips are close, but I think not really touching, are they, as this source claims? Plus a portrayal like this may have been unique to the Fifth Dynasty period, with other examples not yet discovered or lost to time, and its absence in other dynasties merely a matter of changing conventions, as is true throughout Egyptian art.

    Does anyone here know their Egyptian history & art better than me? RJ guys have a remarkable depth of knowledge, one of its attractions for me.
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    Aug 25, 2009 12:40 AM GMT
    THANKS!
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    Aug 25, 2009 1:15 AM GMT
    I checked a little online, though not extensively. Here is a quote I found, with a photographic study of their tomb, that includes more portrayals of them in various embraces:

    The relationship between the two men is not clear. Egyptologists consider it "problematical." Are they brothers? Could they be twin brothers? Are they close friends or are they lovers ? Are they all of the above? A reasoned argument can be made defending any and all of these positions.

    http://www.egyptology.com/niankhkhnum_khnumhotep/
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    Aug 25, 2009 1:16 AM GMT
    Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

    I wonder how muslim Eqypt is handling this?
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    Aug 25, 2009 1:26 AM GMT
    Caslon12000 saidVery interesting. Thanks for posting this.

    I wonder how muslim Eqypt is handling this?

    I gather this has been out there since 1964, when the tomb was discovered. It is popularly known as "The Tomb of the Two Brothers" so I doubt any Muslims see a big gay controversy here.

    BTW, nice to see you posting again. Did you take a break for a while?
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    Aug 25, 2009 1:56 AM GMT

    But will Oprah and Gayle be the next?!

    200935.jpg
  • Celticmusl

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    Aug 25, 2009 4:46 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidI checked a little online, though not extensively. Here is a quote I found, with a photographic study of their tomb, that includes more portrayals of them in various embraces:

    The relationship between the two men is not clear. Egyptologists consider it "problematical." Are they brothers? Could they be twin brothers? Are they close friends or are they lovers ? Are they all of the above? A reasoned argument can be made defending any and all of these positions.

    http://www.egyptology.com/niankhkhnum_khnumhotep/



    I wonder what the Egyptologists would say if they found portrayals of a man and a woman embracing? Siblings or just close friends? They sound more like Homophobologists to me.
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    Aug 25, 2009 4:51 AM GMT
    That is pretty cool. I wonder what they used for lube back then.
  • mellowmuscle

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    Aug 25, 2009 4:58 AM GMT
    Probably spit, which I hear is still pretty popular! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Aug 25, 2009 5:22 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidI checked a little online, though not extensively. Here is a quote I found, with a photographic study of their tomb, that includes more portrayals of them in various embraces:

    The relationship between the two men is not clear. Egyptologists consider it "problematical." Are they brothers? Could they be twin brothers? Are they close friends or are they lovers ? Are they all of the above? A reasoned argument can be made defending any and all of these positions.

    http://www.egyptology.com/niankhkhnum_khnumhotep/
    Don't let the brothers thing dissuade you. Remember in Egypt it was common for siblings in the Royal family to marry.

    Besides all those pictures of eyes with guyliner should tell you something icon_lol.gif

    http://www.egyptology.com/niankhkhnum_khnumhotep/hiero1.gif
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    Aug 25, 2009 5:35 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidHow very interesting! Thank you! I have never heard of this before, though I have some slight knowledge of Egyptian pharaonic history. "Overseer of the Manicurists" would seem about right... LOL!

    In fact, it is so stereotypical, I have to wonder if this is really correct. I suppose hairstylists would be even more obvious, but I would appreciate a better source than Wikipedia.


    I found this from The Times Online:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article784046.ece

    It seems that as the "Overseers of the Manicurists", they were responsible for the appearance of the Pharaoh's hands, and were among the select few actually allowed to touch the ruler.

    Not bad.icon_cool.gif

    I guess stereotypes have to come from somewhere, right? LOL.icon_lol.gif
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    Aug 25, 2009 5:37 AM GMT
    spacinjasin saidThat is pretty cool. I wonder what they used for lube back then.


    Oh, they had ALL kinds of expensive, scented oils to play with! icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 25, 2009 5:51 AM GMT
    The fact that so much history has been last, destroyed, rewritten, it's a question that will never have an answer. Nor really matters to me.

    I'm sure men have been having sex with each other since we first stood upright, if not before.
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    Aug 25, 2009 5:56 AM GMT
    Caslon12000 saidVery interesting. Thanks for posting this.

    I wonder how muslim Eqypt is handling this?


    My bet is that they're probably blaming this on "The West", America, and Israel all at the same time, but not too aggressively because the US is giving them an annual allowance in order to make nice with Israel.
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    Aug 25, 2009 6:03 AM GMT
    wtf!bennnn!
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    Aug 26, 2009 8:42 AM GMT
    There is actually a lot of research on this topic from same sex loving gods and stories in myth to records of relationships. The early Catholic church had a liturgy for same sex marriage and sainted a couple even. There is too much to ignore. Same sex love was celebrated in many cultures.