The Imperfect Gentleman

  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Aug 25, 2009 7:41 PM GMT

    This thread is the result of (one) a recent trend in thread topics concerning either the perfect guy or the perfect relationship, and (two) a recent conversation with one of my RJ buddies. I am asserting that, after having established a salubrious connection, the ' imperfections ' someone demonstrates may become rather endearing. This can be stated because of the concept that a man is only as good as he is to others and as good as the support and love he receives from those closest to him (thus leading to the concept of the Imperfect Gentleman). Seeking either the ' perfect ' guy or the ' perfect ' relationship may be the product of socialization and it has been suggested by Timberoo that such a process can lead to more exclusion than inclusion.

    Moreover, MichVBPlayer28 writes " ... and I am tired of guys saying ' oh, I can't date him because he is a bottom ' ... that's like straight guys saying ' oh, I can't date her, she's a brunette - I only like blondes. '" Perhaps it would be wise to say that if we are as selective as MichVBPlayer28 suggests (some of us, not all), then it would be prudent to work upon ourselves until we've reached a point where we are presentable/datable. This is not to imply that we should not have standards, but rather than seeking either idealized stereotypes or disregarding someone for trite attributes, instead we should possibly focus on seeking an understanding of who the other person is and what they bring to our lives.

    I realize that people have their preferences, but I am suggesting and asking for opinions on the idea of possibly slackening a bit in order to achieve some sort of happiness. Again, I am only attempting to ask for people's opinions and am, in no way, trying to say:
    - I know it all.
    - I am presentable/datable.
    - who you should be.

    Nor am I trying to get loud with you or anyone else.

  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Aug 27, 2009 12:10 AM GMT

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    Aug 27, 2009 12:27 AM GMT
    Everyone has flaws. Imperfections are what makes a guy interesting and what separates them from being just another clone of the 'Beautiful People'.

    Perfect people are simply flawed people who are quite good at pretending to be perfect. Which makes the discovery that he's not perfect a little bit more about people's disappointment at having yet again been disproven of the perfect guy myth rather than about the imperfection itself.

    Funnily enough. In these situations, guys often say "I'm breaking up because of {insert imperfection here}" when this is actually one of the situations where the "It's not you, it's me" thing would be the honest thing to say.
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Aug 27, 2009 1:28 AM GMT
    Sedative said
    ...guys often say "I'm breaking up because of {insert imperfection here}" when this is actually one of the situations where the "It's not you, it's me" thing would be the honest thing to say.

    utilizing the Socratic method, I'd like to know as to if there is a way to get to that point in which we can perceive this truth ...
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    Aug 27, 2009 2:13 AM GMT
    Cool thread, and I like parts of your ideas. I agree that it is "...prudent to work upon ourselves until we've reached a point where we are presentable/datable."

    I think it's very rare to find guys who are self-accepting- and self-aware enough to realize that they have work to do upon themselves. So many people think that they're OK, and the rest of the world needs to adapt... I also think it's very rare to find someone who embraces the parts of himself that need work, and own them.

    But, I disagree that we need to "...possibly slacken[ing] a bit in order to achieve some sort of happiness." If I'm reading your post correctly, that means we need a relationship to find "some sort of happiness," which is false.

    Instead, the work we need to do enables us to learn that we're perfectly whole, with our flaws, and that we can be happy alone. We can be thankful for (or even just aware of) the blessing we have, and that if we meet someone great in the future, that's icing on the cake.

    I don't think we're presentable/datable until we realize that we are exactly who we should be at this very moment, and that we are worth celebrating in our current state, and thus we're happy whether we're alone or partnered.
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    Aug 27, 2009 6:12 AM GMT
    I think the search for perfection is a defense mechanism. Different people are blocking different things of course, but in the end they're all hiding from something. Prince Charming is an ideal manifested out of too many fairy tales, and romance movies, which tend to create a state of denial among the lovelorn.

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    Aug 27, 2009 6:52 AM GMT
    Well, I don't need "some sort of happiness", so I don't need just some random guy. I'm sorry but I can't date someone who I don't really like icon_rolleyes.gif And I'm not blaming anyone, I'm not saying the rest of the world should change for me - I'm perfectly fine with being on my own until I find a guy that I feel OK with.

    There are plenty of great guys out there, so why should we settle for the losers? I know, I sound picky or whatever, but I respect myself and I don't need to waste my time with people who are undateble (for me). I'm not talking about the way they look, I'm talking about their personality, habits, background, job, their aspirations ....

    I'm sorry but I want a good guy who can be as smart as me or more. I want an equal and a partner and that I'm not gonna find with settling for "some sort of happiness".
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    Aug 27, 2009 6:59 PM GMT
    It all depends. Absolute perfection doesn't exist, guys who some see as looking for "perfection" may be looking for something possibly attainable.

    Absolute contentment also doesn't exist. Relationship can be a basis for greater happiness, as long as one starts from a place of self-confidence and (relative) contentment.

    It is very important to be picky. However, being overly picky may ruin your chances of getting something. Young guys have all the time to experiment, being picky is not a bad thing (to avoid getting too many bad/damaging experiences that have long-term consequences). But if you're middle aged and have been picky all your adult life without any luck, you may have been too picky. If the qualities you put on the table aren't comparable to the qualities you seek, then you end up with no deal. Such people sometimes tell themselves they're content with being by themselves, but they've missed out on living life in a fuller, happier way.

    Being not picky enough means you miss the opportunity of having someone worthy of the qualities you bring to the table. Being too picky means you miss the opportunity of having someone in your life. Both are missed opportunities. The key is to know yourself and what your qualities will attract.

    "slackening a bit" should be rephrased as "re-evaluate your priorities", "some sort of happiness" is just an awful way to put it, should be rephrased as "be realistic".
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    Aug 27, 2009 9:11 PM GMT
    An additional point of clarity is needed though. Each person has preferences that can be adapted to and preferences that are required (deal breakers whether for their deficit or inclusion). What is a deal breaker for one guy may be a simple obstacle that can be dealt with by another. Neither of the two is any more right or wrong than the other.

    Too many people cannot separate personal taste and preference from right and wrong or good and bad. They assume that what they like is perfection without the qualification "for them."

    Simply wanting to be with someone whom you are attracted to doesn't not mean by any means that you are entitled for them to feel the same way. Additionally, the reason that the other guy may not be attracted to you may not be the reason that you believe, or in a more complex difficulty, they may not be attracted to you for the very reason that you are attracted to them.

    What I've never understood myself, is why people seem to be upset that someone they are attracted to, regardless of whether that reason is profound or trivial, is not attracted to them. Again, this is the sense of entitlement that is often disguised as 'confidence.' Why do people want to be with someone who's not attracted to them.

    I've met guy's who I thought were incredibly hot to me who may not have been interested in me due to politics, hair color, age (whether its the sameness or the difference), sense of humor, the way I was dressed, etc. So be it. I don't want someone who doesn't want me. If I were a masochist, that may be great situation but I wouldn't know since I am not.

    A good example is demonstrated regularly in the forums here. If I posted a picture of Brad Pitt, and stated that he's the perfect man, the responses would vary. They would range from disgust and dismissal to agreements with and without exceptions, to an almost deification. Just read the Chris Evans or Channing Tatum forum.
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    Aug 28, 2009 6:44 PM GMT
    Being picky for the wrong reasons really hurts in the long run. Ask yourself how long you will be happy with the ideal guy if you found him today. You need to know yourself and assess whether your current priorities will lead to long-term happiness. It's kind of like picking heirloom furniture or jewelery, do you want the latest fad that you'll toss out in a few years? (guys with superficial attractiveness that are good for showing off to friends, but have lowsy personalities) Something that isn't well made that would break down in a few years? (i.e. guys lacking coping skills and self-development skills) Do you want something that everybody else wants? This leads to the "clone" term that is so ubiquitous in the gay world. Or do you want something unique, well made, lasts a long time, something you'll never tire of?

    Not knowing what you want in the long run leads to trying many guys (with the attendant health risks and emotional scars) and still not finding long-term happiness. Aren't many people in that boat these days.