"Good Bye, I love you" is the hardest thing to say.....

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 07, 2009 7:57 AM GMT
    My Uncle was killed Sunday around 1230 pm, in a traffic accident.
    He was 64 and was out riding his new 2010 Goldwing in the "Amish country" of Millersburg, Ohio. I am, along with the rest of my family, heartbroken, in shock and almost disbelief.
    Apparently he was struck by a full-sized delivery van. The driver ran a red light, and was distracted by his texting as he drove. He sent my uncle and the bike sailing into a large fence off the road. The ER Dr. told my Aunt that the bike crushed his head against the fence and then again on the ground as they landed. The Dr. said death was almost instantaneous from the massive head injuries.

    My Uncle Ed....he was one of a kind. Always quick with a joke, usually raunchy and funny as hell! He was healthy, generous, friendly, always demanded the best out of you and was always fair. He was smart and industrious and just plain loving.....I can't believe he is gone! Life is so abrupt...."ON" and then "OFF".
    I don't know what to say or do and I can't imagine what my Aunt and Cousins (his son and daughter, both are married and have kids of their own) are going through right now.
    Please be careful when you drive or ride and concentrate on your driving/riding. If you must text or chat on the phone, do it in a safe and responsible time and place....not behind the wheel. This is the most horrendous way to loose a loved one. He was healthy. happy, doing all the right, legal and safe things and was killed in a moment of stupidity and irresponsibility by someone else in a hurry. The van driver was uninjured, but has been arrested pending charges....My uncle is DEAD! but he is under arrest. Doesn't seem fair....and we all loose. I can't sleep, and feel haunted by the images of the accident site and the wreckage of the bike with the blood stains. My Aunt had to ID his body and saw the injuries......... I am in shock and feel sick.....this may take a little bit for me to get over....sorry for my incoherent ramble...is there a meaning or a lesson?
  • baldone

    Posts: 826

    Sep 07, 2009 9:43 AM GMT
    my heart goes out to you this morning...i am so sorry about yours and your families loss.....to loose someone through stupidity of another driver is horrible....again my deep deep sympathies to you and your loved ones
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    Sep 07, 2009 10:05 AM GMT
    I'm so sorry for your loss Sporty. NC just banned texting while driving over the summer - of course, it would seem to be one of those things that's so obvious to people you wouldn't need to even pass a law.

    You and your family are in my thoughts.
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    Sep 07, 2009 11:56 AM GMT
    Momentum_Play said it would seem to be one of those things that's so obvious to people you wouldn't need to even pass a law.

    Of course it's obvious but you still see it every day.
    Words fail.
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    Sep 07, 2009 12:18 PM GMT
    I am so sorry to hear of your and your family's loss. I am completely shocked that texting while driving is not banned everywhere. I was recently in a motorcar with my cousin's 17 yr old nephew while he was driving. At one point we were all over the road because he started texting!!!

    However, you said something that I don't agree with. You said, "The van driver was uninjured, but has been arrested pending charges....My uncle is DEAD! but he is under arrest. Doesn't seem fair...."
    What do you mean? What should happen to the driver? He didn't break any law did he? If he DID break a law, then I would say issue a summons and suspend or revoke his driving priveledges. (But either way, it was just an unfortunate accident. There was no intent to cause this.)
    If this driver did nothing wrong, other then being bloody stupid, then he should not be arrested or charged with a crime.
    Again, so very sorry to hear of your loss.
    -Keith
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    Sep 07, 2009 12:26 PM GMT
    Musclequest said What should happen to the driver? He didn't break any law did he? (But either way, it was just an unfortunate accident. There was no intent to cause this.)

    Intent is beside the point. If you engage in an act that clearly puts the lives of others at risk -- as texting certainly does -- then you assume responsibility for whatever happens.
    Most states have penalties for criminally negligent homicide which this appears to be.
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    Sep 07, 2009 12:32 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    Musclequest said What should happen to the driver? He didn't break any law did he? (But either way, it was just an unfortunate accident. There was no intent to cause this.)

    Intent is beside the point. If you engage in an act that clearly puts the lives of others at risk -- as texting certainly does -- then you assume responsibility for whatever happens.
    Most states have penalties for criminally negligent homicide which this appears to be.

    Really? Even if no law was broken? (I'm not arguing the point. Just trying to understand.) So then, an assumably, productive member of society who may be in fact a very good person, should go to jail for this unfortunate lapse in good judgement?
    Cheers,
    Keith
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    Sep 07, 2009 12:50 PM GMT
    Musclequest said
    TexDef07 said
    Musclequest said What should happen to the driver? He didn't break any law did he? (But either way, it was just an unfortunate accident. There was no intent to cause this.)

    Intent is beside the point. If you engage in an act that clearly puts the lives of others at risk -- as texting certainly does -- then you assume responsibility for whatever happens.
    Most states have penalties for criminally negligent homicide which this appears to be.

    Really? Even if no law was broken? (I'm not arguing the point. Just trying to understand.) So then, an assumably, productive member of society who may be in fact a very good person, should go to jail for this unfortunate lapse in good judgement?
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif
    I'm no barrister, as TexDef is, but clearly the law was broken. The guy ran a red light while texting and caused the death of another person.
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    Sep 07, 2009 12:52 PM GMT
    Musclequest said Even if no law was broken? (I'm not arguing the point. Just trying to understand.) So then, an assumably, productive member of society who may be in fact a very good person, should go to jail for this unfortunate lapse in good judgement?
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    Keith,
    Broke no law? See below. These are from the Texas Penal Code but they're typical of other states' laws as well.

    § 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person
    commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by
    criminal negligence.


    (d) A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur.



    Clearly anyone would be aware that driving while texting creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk that they might hit somebody.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 07, 2009 12:52 PM GMT
    So very sorry to hear about your Uncle Ed, Sporty. I'm sure you are angry as well as grief stricken. I think the best thing we can do is read carefully what you say... good words to follow...

    Again, my prayers are with you. I'm so very sorry your Uncle lost his life due
    to such a thing.
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    Sep 07, 2009 1:03 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    Musclequest said Even if no law was broken? (I'm not arguing the point. Just trying to understand.) So then, an assumably, productive member of society who may be in fact a very good person, should go to jail for this unfortunate lapse in good judgement?
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    Keith,
    Broke no law? See below. These are from the Texas Penal Code but they're typical of other states' laws as well.

    § 19.05. CRIMINALLY NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE. (a) A person
    commits an offense if he causes the death of an individual by
    criminal negligence.


    (d) A person acts with criminal negligence, or is criminally negligent, with respect to circumstances surrounding his conduct or the result of his conduct when he ought to be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the circumstances exist or the result will occur.



    Clearly anyone would be aware that driving while texting creates a substantial and unjustifiable risk that they might hit somebody.


    Thanks for your reply. I know you are a Barrister, so I yield to your knowledge. However, both statutes you have mentioned focus on "criminal negligence." It's not criminal to be stupid. Which the texter obviously was. He made a mistake that unfortunately resulted in a death. But it was not criminal, in my opinion, if he did not break the law.
    Several years ago I ran a red light that caused a horrific motorcar accident resulting in the death of two people. (PLUS A VINTAGE MOTORCAR WAS DEMOLISHED!!) It was an accident, for which I was issued a citation for. And that was that. Should I have been put in jail for not paying attention? It was an accident. These things happen. I have to live with that guilt everyday.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif
  • RSportsguy

    Posts: 1925

    Sep 07, 2009 1:45 PM GMT
    Sorry for your loss! My prayers go out to you and your uncle's family!!
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    Sep 07, 2009 1:50 PM GMT
    I can't give you any legal advice, nor do I know personally what you are going through right now. I have, however, lost relative who were very important to me.

    And the best thing you can truly do during times like these is not allow yourself to be haunted by the nature of their death. Instead truly celebrate their life.

    The things that made them the life of the party. Those unique idiosynchratic traits that were theirs and theirs alone.

    Times they made you happy, times they made you laugh. Perhaps even times they made you angry.

    Take what you have learned from him, what you admired about him, and allow that part of him to live on with you. and know that though he died a tragic death, his life was not in vain.
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:06 PM GMT
    IF you feel compelled to change the world, then I recommend lobbying for stricter laws related to mobile phone use while operating a motor vehicle. Many states have some pretty tough laws on the books. I was born and raised in Ohio, and if it's still as bass ackwards as it was back when I lived there, then you have your work cut out for you. Work to make the laws tougher where you live. You can make a difference, and maybe this would be a great way of honoring your uncle's memory.

    Good luck to you.
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:11 PM GMT
    The driver would probably be charged with manslaughter. He didn't run a red light and text in hopes of killing someone.

    For example drunk driving, if a drunk driver kills someone in a car accident, he/she is not going to get charged with murder. There was no intent to kill.

    So for the van driver, he's not going to go to be setenced for like 150 years of prison, or put on death row. The man did not text and run a red light in hopes that your uncle will be killed.



    Anyways, I'm very sorry for your family's loss.
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:14 PM GMT
    Musclequest said
    Thanks for your reply. I know you are a Barrister, so I yield to your knowledge. However, both statutes you have mentioned focus on "criminal negligence." It's not criminal to be stupid. Which the texter obviously was. He made a mistake that unfortunately resulted in a death. But it was not criminal, in my opinion, if he did not break the law.
    Several years ago I ran a red light that caused a horrific motorcar accident resulting in the death of two people. (PLUS A VINTAGE MOTORCAR WAS DEMOLISHED!!) It was an accident, for which I was issued a citation for. And that was that. Should I have been put in jail for not paying attention? It was an accident. These things happen. I have to live with that guilt everyday.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    If there was any justice in life you should have been sent to jail. And should be in jail all like now
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:15 PM GMT
    Sorry to hear of your loss, guy
  • baldone

    Posts: 826

    Sep 07, 2009 2:37 PM GMT
    c'mon guys...we're talking about a loss of a loved one here...a father, a husband, a uncle...where is the compassion that i know all you guys can show...yeah, the guy was stupid, he was texting, but bottom line he killed someone...tell the family that he was texting and didn't break any laws....and by the way i think we in ohio or at least in cleveland have recently passed a no texting law....so lets show who we all really are and show this guy a little compassion
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:40 PM GMT
    US traffic law varies widely among the states, as does enforcement. If running a red light is proven, then vehicular homicide is a possible charge. Penalties also vary widely, but can involve quite a number of years in prison. And of course the estate and/or next of kin of the victim can bring a civil action for damages.

    Some areas already have texting prohibitions which would add that specific charge. A few prosecutors have tried using other statutes against negligent or reckless operation of a motor vehicle to cover the texting situation. Proving texting usually requires the police take the trouble to have the device sent to a certified forensics lab for examination of its contents, to establish an exact time of usage against the time of the accident. Cell phone company records are also gathered.

    All this may help to ensure that justice is served, but it does not turn back the clock and undo the tragedy. As I'm writing this, next to me on the desk is this month's monthly magazine for the American Motorcyclist Association (AMA), to which I've belonged since 1970. Sometimes it tells of AMA campaigns to force authorities to take action in cases of riders being killed by motorists, where no charges are brought, or inadequate ones. It seems bikers can be discriminated against in these cases, just like gays can regarding prosecution of hate crimes.

    If appropriate charges are not brought against this driver, notifying the AMA could get them involved, especially if your uncle was a member. They have a unit dedicated just to these cases. Please notify me for contact info if you wish to explore this option, should it become necessary. And my deepest condolences, as a fellow biker.
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:41 PM GMT
    I don't know if law was broken or not, but he has caused a lot of grief to someone. There is no way he should get an easy way out like revoking his liscence. This would mean, even though u were stupid and that was a cause for someone's death, you were let go easy and will send a wrong message. Do you think lot of people out there doing samething will even care about the result of this kind.
    He should be held responsible for manslaughter, maybe second degree.
    I once had an accident, when the person coming in the opposite directioon didn't care to lower the lights at night even after repeated signals for our side, and we never saw the bad turn awaiting us. I can never forget that person for he almost killed a baby and her mother.
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    Sep 07, 2009 2:51 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA said
    Musclequest said
    Thanks for your reply. I know you are a Barrister, so I yield to your knowledge. However, both statutes you have mentioned focus on "criminal negligence." It's not criminal to be stupid. Which the texter obviously was. He made a mistake that unfortunately resulted in a death. But it was not criminal, in my opinion, if he did not break the law.
    Several years ago I ran a red light that caused a horrific motorcar accident resulting in the death of two people. (PLUS A VINTAGE MOTORCAR WAS DEMOLISHED!!) It was an accident, for which I was issued a citation for. And that was that. Should I have been put in jail for not paying attention? It was an accident. These things happen. I have to live with that guilt everyday.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif


    If there was any justice in life you should have been sent to jail. And should be in jail all like now


    LOL....you are really predictable. Do you have anything EVER to contribute to these threads that isn't bloody hateful? You are full of feckless nonsense, and obviously yourself. Just slither back under that bloody rock of yours where you belong. You are like an annoying bug. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Wasn't trying to incite a flamewar here gentlemen. Just "discussing" the penalty for this horrific accident.
    Cheers,
    Keith
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    Sep 07, 2009 3:24 PM GMT
    jtaustin saidI'm very sorry for your loss.

    Texting while driving should be outlawed. Three weeks ago a kid here in Dallas ran a red light while texting and hit me and totaled my car. I was very lucky to walk away from the accident.

    I completely agree with what you said: "Please be careful when you drive or ride and concentrate on your driving/riding. If you must text or chat on the phone, do it in a safe and responsible time and place....not behind the wheel."

    -Jake

    I didn't recall knowing about your accident, very sorry to hear that. Even ordinary cell phone usage is a driving distraction, and most of the time when we find ourselves dodging careless drivers here in the Fort Lauderdale area, we can see they're talking on a hand-held cell phone.

    My own partner was an offender. When I first met him and would ride in his car with him, he was always getting cell phone calls, still does. He keeps it in his pocket, and would start fumbling to pull it out quickly. The car would begin wandering all over the road, and I wondered how long before he got hit doing that, or hit someone else.

    He was due for a new car as it happened, so I told him I'd buy him one, let me know what he wanted. But it had to be one of those that offers Bluetooth technology that integrates with a cell phone. He likes Fords (no imagination), and their 2008s were offering the new Microsoft Sync technology anyway, so that's what I got him.

    It pairs with his cell automatically, the moment he approaches the car. Incoming call info is displayed on an eye-level dashboard display, and he answers by pressing a button on his steering wheel. The conversation is no more distracting than talking with a passenger. It's certainly better than doing it on the cell itself, which never leaves his pocket now, that I knew I could never get him to stop doing.

    To place a call, he presses the same steering wheel button. He tells the lovely lady's voice that he wants to place a "call," then states the name of the person, and what phone it is, if several. For example "John - cell" "John - home" or "John - work" and so on. It then dials the number. I've organized all the names in his cell phone for this purpose accordingly, which is what Sync accesses. It can also handle first & last name combinations.

    My partner never texts, BTW. He doesn't know how, has no interest, and I don't intend to teach him. LOL!

    Still, even this hands-free usage may become illegal under certain laws if written poorly. If ALL cell phone use while driving becomes prohibited, then he won't even be able to do that. And even now, if he has an accident, and they examine his cell phone, they might see an ongoing call. I'm not sure they could tell if it was over the Sync system or hand-held. These are new legal areas for everyone.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    Sep 07, 2009 3:32 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Musclequest said[/cite] He made a mistake that unfortunately resulted in a death. But it was not criminal, in my opinion, if he did not break the law.
    Several years ago I ran a red light that caused a horrific motorcar accident resulting in the death of two people. (PLUS A VINTAGE MOTORCAR WAS DEMOLISHED!!) It was an accident, for which I was issued a citation for. And that was that. Should I have been put in jail for not paying attention? It was an accident. These things happen. I have to live with that guilt everyday.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif[/quote


    First of all, Sporty_g I am so sorry to hear about your loss. What a tragedy. Life is short and can end so abruptly sometimes. Thankfully, your Uncle died instantly and probably felt no pain. Take solace in at least that.

    Keith, I understand the point you are trying to make, but there is a difference between an accident that was just an accident, and an accident caused by negligence (the man texting) and running a red light (which, last I checked, is breaking a law). You say you ran a red light once in which 2 people died. This is the second time I have seen you post this in different threads, and both times you made mention of "the vintage motorcar that was demolished", as if anyone really gives a crap that a car was demolished compared to the death of two innocent people. Apparently you do. But it so pales in comparison that I am surprised that you even mention it. I feel for you that you have to live with the guilt of causing the death of two people, and I am sure the man that killed Sporty's uncle is going to suffer the same. That said, a citation hardly seems fair when someone is negligent, they run a red light, and people die.
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    Sep 07, 2009 4:01 PM GMT

    Sporty_G, here's to your family. May you all grieve keenly and deeply, which is grieving cleanly. He's obviously a great guy for you speak of him the way you do!

    My Uncle went down in a boat with my two cousins one Boxing Day. The sudden shock is bad, bad, bad. Many of us kept thinking we could have somehow talked him out of taking the boat out. We drove ourselves a little crazy with it.

    I think it's very difficult to look for meaning or a lesson so soon. Give yourselves time and love each other up.


    respectfully, Doug of meninlove (and Bill too)

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    Sep 07, 2009 4:08 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said[quote][cite]Musclequest said[/cite] He made a mistake that unfortunately resulted in a death. But it was not criminal, in my opinion, if he did not break the law.
    Several years ago I ran a red light that caused a horrific motorcar accident resulting in the death of two people. (PLUS A VINTAGE MOTORCAR WAS DEMOLISHED!!) It was an accident, for which I was issued a citation for. And that was that. Should I have been put in jail for not paying attention? It was an accident. These things happen. I have to live with that guilt everyday.
    Cheers,
    Keith
    icon_twisted.gif[/quote


    First of all, Sporty_g I am so sorry to hear about your loss. What a tragedy. Life is short and can end so abruptly sometimes. Thankfully, your Uncle died instantly and probably felt no pain. Take solace in at least that.

    Keith, I understand the point you are trying to make, but there is a difference between an accident that was just an accident, and an accident caused by negligence (the man texting) and running a red light (which, last I checked, is breaking a law). You say you ran a red light once in which 2 people died. This is the second time I have seen you post this in different threads, and both times you made mention of "the vintage motorcar that was demolished", as if anyone really gives a crap that a car was demolished compared to the death of two innocent people. Apparently you do. But it so pales in comparison that I am surprised that you even mention it. I feel for you that you have to live with the guilt of causing the death of two people, and I am sure the man that killed Sporty's uncle is going to suffer the same. That said, a citation hardly seems fair when someone is negligent, they run a red light, and people die.


    Why would you be surprised that this ass has mentioned the demolition of a car as being important.?

    Come o now......... how long have you been on this site?

    Is he not the fuck tard who was waxing poetic about the fact that it is more important to save art than to save human life? He has no guilt - isn't it obvious to you as yet that he's amoral?

    What the fvck do you expect from an obvious morally bereft shit bag like him?