Muslim raised girl becomes Christian and fears for her life.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 3:10 PM GMT
    Rifqa Bary converted to Chritianity and due to fear of her Muslim family/community's reaction she felt the need to runaway. Radical Muslims feel justified killing such an apostate. It appears that her family belongs to such a racial Mosque. The link below has coverage from CBN's 700 club. I am not a big fan of the CBN/700 club, but the coverage seemed more extensive than other coverage I've watched. Also, the link has an address to those who may feel moved to help this girl. The story has also been covered by more mainstream networks like CNN, ABC, etc. Do an internet seach on story if you do not trust CBN/700 club coverage.
    This is American and we have Freedom of Religion. I am all for religious pluralism, but have to admit I am very concerned about the increasing Muslim population in the United States. Muslims (when they are the majority) seem to have little respect the Seperation of Church and State. I've heard that the Netherlands require Muslim immigrants to watch a video explaining how in the Netherlands things like smoking pot and homosexuality are accepted. The reason for this is that Muslim immmigrants tended to be very intolerant of those things in others. Back in the U.S at the Minneapolis Airport Muslim cab drivers wouldn't pick up people with alcohol or sight seeing dogs.
    Muslims are welcome to this country, but they need to understand that things like "honor killings", enforcing sharia laws, etc. WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. Really threatening to punish or even kill someone for converting to another religion! Chrisitians haven't justified such things since the inquisition, reformation, and witch burnings.

    http://rifqabary.com

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 5:30 PM GMT
    Really, leave the poor deluded girl alone. She's done nothing more than change mental hospitals. Geesh!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
    So you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 5:48 PM GMT
    Ganymede0 saidSo you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.


    You cannot correctly accuse Phemt of doing such. The report is what it is.

    I am concerned about people coming to live in America and brining their cultural norms with them and expecting America to change and accept the cultural norms of their origins.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 5:49 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 saidSo you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.


    You cannot accuse Phemt of doing such. The report is what it is.

    I am concerned about people coming to live in America and brining their cultural norms with them and expecting America to change and accept the cultural norms of their origins.


    He sites an article from CBN and then goes on to make generalizations about Muslims.

    How is what I said wrong?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 5:53 PM GMT
    Ganymede0 said
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 saidSo you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.


    You cannot accuse Phemt of doing such. The report is what it is.

    I am concerned about people coming to live in America and brining their cultural norms with them and expecting America to change and accept the cultural norms of their origins.


    He sites an article from CBN and then goes on to make generalizations about Muslims.

    How is what I said wrong?


    Read more carefully. He said that this item has been carried by several other news groups such as CNN and ABC. Did you perchance check any of them?

    His argument is that he is concerned about the separation of church and state by religious groups and he points out the muslim community.

    Point out to him where his assertions are wrong.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 6:00 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 said
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 saidSo you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.


    You cannot accuse Phemt of doing such. The report is what it is.

    I am concerned about people coming to live in America and brining their cultural norms with them and expecting America to change and accept the cultural norms of their origins.


    He sites an article from CBN and then goes on to make generalizations about Muslims.

    How is what I said wrong?


    Read more carefully. He said that this item has been carried by several other news groups such as CNN and ABC. Did you perchance check any of them?


    Oh well in that case! Since he SAID it must be true.

    Where are the citations or the links?

    Please! Religious hysteria is religious hysteria. You aren't going to convince me otherwise. Especially not with someone using CBN as a source or linking to a site that features the CBN coverage... or did you perchance bother to even click the link? It leads to other sites like JihadWatch.com! Seriously?!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 6:07 PM GMT
    Ganymede0 said
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 said
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 saidSo you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.


    You cannot accuse Phemt of doing such. The report is what it is.

    I am concerned about people coming to live in America and brining their cultural norms with them and expecting America to change and accept the cultural norms of their origins.


    He sites an article from CBN and then goes on to make generalizations about Muslims.

    How is what I said wrong?


    Read more carefully. He said that this item has been carried by several other news groups such as CNN and ABC. Did you perchance check any of them?


    Oh well in that case! Since he SAID it must be true.

    Where are the citations or the links?

    Please! Religious hysteria is religious hysteria. You aren't going to convince me otherwise. Especially not with someone using CBN as a source or linking to a site that features the CBN coverage... or did you perchance bother to even click the link?


    Oh for Pete's sake! I don't have it in me today dude. I'm waiting for a big wet kiss from a Republican in a bathroom. I can't have you spoil my mood by getting into one of these back and forth things.

    If you don't know what CNN and ABC are - well it's time for you to educate yourself.

    ~cheers~
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 6:14 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 said
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 said
    Blackguy4you said
    Ganymede0 saidSo you are taking the words of one fanatical religious organization to hype hysteria about another religion?

    Logic fail.


    You cannot accuse Phemt of doing such. The report is what it is.

    I am concerned about people coming to live in America and brining their cultural norms with them and expecting America to change and accept the cultural norms of their origins.


    He sites an article from CBN and then goes on to make generalizations about Muslims.

    How is what I said wrong?


    Read more carefully. He said that this item has been carried by several other news groups such as CNN and ABC. Did you perchance check any of them?


    Oh well in that case! Since he SAID it must be true.

    Where are the citations or the links?

    Please! Religious hysteria is religious hysteria. You aren't going to convince me otherwise. Especially not with someone using CBN as a source or linking to a site that features the CBN coverage... or did you perchance bother to even click the link?


    Oh for Pete's sake! I don't have it in me today dude. I'm waiting for a big wet kiss from a Republican in a bathroom. I can't have you spoil my mood by getting into one of these back and forth things.

    If you don't know what CNN and ABC are - well it's time for you to educate yourself.

    ~cheers~


    LOL!

    Yes, I know very well what CNN and ABC! Maybe you should explore them sometime and some more indepth news sources while you're at it.

    I also know what a logical fallacy is and when someone is running from an argument they know they failed miserably at!

    But thanks for the laugh!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 6:22 PM GMT
    http://edition.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/03/muslim.convert/index.html

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=8303567&page=2

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/27/apostate-girls-father/?feat=article_top10_shared

    Above are links to other news covering the story. I admit there are reasons to question CBN/700 club coverage, but in this case I think they might be on to something.
    I just wouldn't want to see something bad happen to her. I would hate seeing her having to be returned to her Muslim family/community she felt the need to escape from.

    I just don't understand why the girl would had made such an effort to run away unless there was something for her to fear.




  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 6:56 PM GMT
    An ex bf of mine sought asylum in the US to escape his Muslim family/community in Indonesia. His mother stills consistantly sends him text/emails telling him to "get right" with his faith. He loves his mother/family, but realized how dangerous it would be for him to continue living near them being that he is a homosexual. Muslims tend not to like Homosexuality - if you haven't noticed.
    Anyways back to this story, if it turns out that these Christians are using this girl as a propaganda war against Muslims I will gladly admit I was mislead - even stupid - falling for this. My concern and heart really is for this girl.
    Either she really has reason to be scared of her family, or she is being used by these Christians for propaganda.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 7:40 PM GMT
    They aren't using it as propaganda, that would be a bit too much. Does it paint a bad picture? Ya, but so did all the Muslim papers during priest sex scandals.

    20/20, PBS, and others (including major documentaries) have all contributed time and money to "honor-killings". Many, many women (and men) have sought asylum in the States (and a lot of other countries).

    I understand the worry you have, but I tend to think that the worry based in Muslims in the states is unfounded as an honor killing here would lead to the largest outcry and backlash in their community. The US law is beyond anything that Sharia Law or Muslim code talks. Specifically in other Middle Eastern and Indo-Asian countries, the law doesn't protect women or men whose father/uncles/brothers determine that one should die in honor of Allah.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 7:55 PM GMT
    I am recalling the Muslim TV owner beheading his wife in New York earlier this year. Though it wasn't clear if it was a honor killing or not.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/16/buffalo.beheading/index.html
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 8:16 PM GMT
    sxydrkhair saidI don't like the 700 club or CBN, because they both run by Pat Robertson a Muslim hater. He is a radical televangelist that want people to believe he is god.

    Don't fall in this bullsh!t phemt. Of course there are bad Muslims just like there are bad Christians and bad Jews.


    Trust me I am completely aware of CBN's ties/aganda. Why do you think this girl felt the need to run away though? This story is not made up - it is real.

    Yes not all Muslims are bad; Not all Christians are bad; Not all Atheist are bad; Not all Repblicans are bad; etc - lets get that out of the way.

    Is this girl, in this case, justified in being fearful of her family/Muslim community for converting to Christianity?

    I just came across this today and posted to get others feedback. I am curious how this story plays out.

    Most families get upset if another family member switches religious, but I am only aware of Muslims actually killing an apostate.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Sep 13, 2009 8:43 PM GMT
    phemt saidI am all for religious pluralism, but have to admit I am very concerned about the increasing Muslim population in the United States. Muslims (when they are the majority) seem to have little respect the Seperation of Church and State.



    You've got to be kidding me?? That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.

    First off, your complaint that there is no "Separation of Church of State" in a predominantly Muslim society. This is in part because the Koran provides a set of laws to follow. However, in the case of Turkey, or more pluralistic Islamic societies, religion is put in check by government. So not ALL Muslim majorities have strict Sharia law.

    Secondly, Indonesia, the largest Muslim population and fourth most populated nation in the world, has an 86.1% Muslim population. However, it is a Republic with an elected legislature and president, and exercises religious liberty as well. The Indonesian constitution states: "every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice" and "guarantees all persons the freedom of worship, each according to his/her own religion or belief". Doesn't sound too disrespectful of church and state now, does it?

    Thirdly, the same problem applies to the United States, as well. Any religion has a potential to influence legislators and laws, but a strong constitution such as the United States's or Netherlands's blocks a dominant majority religion from imposing their religion by law.

    However, any strong demographic has an influence in who is elected and representing the population. Where do you think we have such homophobic American culture emanating from? Why do you think gays don't have rights? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Muslims. It's the Christians.

    In contradiction to your rather racist sounding comment, you should have noted that any religion needs to be put in check, not just the Muslims you seem to have some uneducated, overblown, and rather irrational fear of.

    Please educate yourself before you make such ignorant statements in the future.

    Thanks,
    Brett

    PS - I would have voted for Barack Obama even if he had been Muslim.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 9:11 PM GMT
    Stuff like this happens all over the world to all kinds of people, why's everyone making this such a big story?

    Organized Mainstream Religion is all bullshit doesnt matter who what or where. Right now the focus is on 'evil muslims', i'm sure in 20 years we'll move on to turning some OTHER religion into an evil twisted scary beast of HELL!!

    WWII era - all japanese-americans are tortured etc. 50 years later and all of a sudden the evil japanese out to kill us all have suddenly become one of the biggest raves this country has ever seen - the number of american students studying japanese and trying to move to japan is higher than any other country and raising at a scary level.

    then came the "evil communist red party" - and so many other stupid examples. We get bored with peace and complacency so we do our best to scare ourselves into thinking there are monsters in every corner.

    The same bullshit happens all the time with just different groups of ppl - this story is just more bs in a long history of the stuff, get over it people. Why are we so concerned with this one girl when so many THOUSANDS are being butchered all over the world for this and even LESS reasons?

    Shouldn't you be concerend over entire families in darfur being murdered merely for existing? Shouldn't we be just as concerned about all the poor american orphans that need homes? all the people all over the world poor and dying from thirst and hunger?

    there was a man not too long ago who butchered his wife, cut her to bits, and was found walking butt-naked in the snow in the middle of nowhere trying to escape authorities. He was your everyday white typical american joe. Why aren't we freaking out over HIS story? because it's not in our interest to scare the shit out of ourselves over our own people. not quite as fun for us then is it?


    finding these single stories and trying to make them into something huge and unbelievable is all just dumb waste-of-time frightening of us "civilized" people. GET OVER THE HYPE PEOPLE

    icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 9:23 PM GMT
    I think if somebody moves to one country, he/she should follow the laws enforced by that government and they shouldn't be allowed any special religious law concessions.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 9:27 PM GMT
    MotorBrett said
    phemt saidI am all for religious pluralism, but have to admit I am very concerned about the increasing Muslim population in the United States. Muslims (when they are the majority) seem to have little respect the Seperation of Church and State.



    You've got to be kidding me?? That is one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.

    First off, your complaint that there is no "Separation of Church of State" in a predominantly Muslim society. This is in part because the Koran provides a set of laws to follow. However, in the case of Turkey, or more pluralistic Islamic societies, religion is put in check by government. So not ALL Muslim majorities have strict Sharia law.

    Secondly, Indonesia, the largest Muslim population and fourth most populated nation in the world, has an 86.1% Muslim population. However, it is a Republic with an elected legislature and president, and exercises religious liberty as well. The Indonesian constitution states: "every person shall be free to choose and to practice the religion of his/her choice" and "guarantees all persons the freedom of worship, each according to his/her own religion or belief". Doesn't sound too disrespectful of church and state now, does it?

    Thirdly, the same problem applies to the United States, as well. Any religion has a potential to influence legislators and laws, but a strong constitution such as the United States's or Netherlands's blocks a dominant majority religion from imposing their religion by law.

    However, any strong demographic has an influence in who is elected and representing the population. Where do you think we have such homophobic American culture emanating from? Why do you think gays don't have rights? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Muslims. It's the Christians.

    In contradiction to your rather racist sounding comment, you should have noted that any religion needs to be put in check, not just the Muslims you seem to have some uneducated, overblown, and rather irrational fear of.

    Please educate yourself before you make such ignorant statements in the future.

    Thanks,
    Brett

    PS - I would have voted for Barack Obama even if he had been Muslim.


    Ok - Not all Muslims are bad. I was mostly referring to Saudi Arabia. I've heard several muslims balk at any idea of their holy land not being an "offically Muslim country". American Homophobic culture is not nearly as bad as in several muslim countries. Would you like to compare how many homosexuals from Muslim counties seek asylum in the US compared to the other way around?
    Anyways, my main point of this post is "why did this girl feel the need to run away from her Muslim community?"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 9:30 PM GMT
    Since this topic has gone off in so many different directions lets focus on this question:

    Should this girl be returned to her Muslim family?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 13, 2009 9:50 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]MotorBrett said[/cite]

    ...
    In contradiction to your rather racist sounding comment, you should have noted that any religion needs to be put in check, not just the Muslims you seem to have some uneducated, overblown, and rather irrational fear of.

    Please educate yourself before you make such ignorant statements in the future.
    ...

    I wasn't aware that Muslim is a race.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Sep 13, 2009 9:55 PM GMT
    Uggh, Islam is a religion, not a race. Just like Christianity. An attack on a set of ideas can never - ever - be racist.
  • MotorBrett

    Posts: 145

    Sep 13, 2009 10:12 PM GMT
    phemt said[quote][cite]MotorBrett said[/cite]

    ...
    In contradiction to your rather racist sounding comment, you should have noted that any religion needs to be put in check, not just the Muslims you seem to have some uneducated, overblown, and rather irrational fear of.

    Please educate yourself before you make such ignorant statements in the future.
    ...

    I wasn't aware that Muslim is a race.


    According to the United Nations conventions, there is no distinction between the term racial discrimination and ethnic discrimination.

    An ethnic group is a group of humans whose members identify with each other, through a common heritage that is real or presumed.

    Ethnic identity is further marked by the recognition from others of a group's distinctiveness and the recognition of common cultural, linguistic, religious, behavioural traits as indicators of contrast to other groups.

    Thus, logically:

    Discrimination against Muslims (a religious and ethnic identity) --> Racism (no difference between race/ethnic discrimation).
  • Sirkit

    Posts: 182

    Sep 13, 2009 10:35 PM GMT
    Should she be returned to her family if there is a real possibility that she may be injured (mentally or physically)? Obviously the answer is no. Just as no queer youth should ever be forcibly returned to a dangerous situation. In all cases such as this the safety of the child should take precedence over all other factors.

    Religion doesn't even factor into it but some of the comments about Muslims in this thread are disturbing. All of the new world countries are populated by immigrants that brought new ideas and ways of thinking to their new home; they were incorporated and their ideas gradually accepted or rejected culturally. To assume or demand a different way of doing things is to demand culture stasis. Anyone who demands stasis clearly has not been paying attention to the last 200 years of modern history. Western societies march onward, any regression is only temporary.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 16, 2009 2:35 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]MotorBrett said[/cite]

    ...
    However, any strong demographic has an influence in who is elected and representing the population. Where do you think we have such homophobic American culture emanating from? Why do you think gays don't have rights? I'll give you a hint: it's not the Muslims. It's the Christians.

    In contradiction to your rather racist sounding comment, you should have noted that any religion needs to be put in check, not just the Muslims you seem to have some uneducated, overblown, and rather irrational fear of.

    Please educate yourself before you make such ignorant statements in the future.

    Thanks,
    Brett
    ...

    Tell me if you know of any Christians doing stuff like this in the name of Christianity -
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/13/iraq-gays-murdered-militias

    And you wonder why Muslim immigration concerns me!
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Sep 16, 2009 2:45 AM GMT
    Phemt -

    Um... You mean you have forgotten already that gay boys and girls continue to be beaten up killed in the United States because they are gay?