More Terror attempts! WTF!!!!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 22, 2009 2:23 PM GMT
    What the hell is wrong with these assholes?!


    http://tinyurl.com/nwlwxj
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 22, 2009 2:52 PM GMT
    This is a sad reality of the world we live in today. There are people out there who want to kill us. I have no doubt that there are all kinds of little cells all over the U.S. plotting and planning the next 9/11. This is why I have no problem with the surveillance techniques that the FBI and CIA have to utilize to try and catch these terrorists before they strike. Once they are caught, if waterboarding is what it takes to get them to spill more info about other cells and operations, so be it. How many innocent Americans might have died in NYC subways had these men not been busted?
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    Sep 22, 2009 2:59 PM GMT
    Well we need to make this reality a little sadder.

    Catch them, try them and if they are found guilty - take them out behind a wall and shoot the m fuckers! icon_evil.gif
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Sep 22, 2009 3:03 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said This is why I have no problem with the surveillance techniques that the FBI and CIA have to utilize to try and catch these terrorists before they strike. Once they are caught, if waterboarding is what it takes to get them to spill more info about other cells and operations



    Why not just pour acid on them while we're at it??

    Nobody wants terrorism of any kind and we must be diligent in seeing defensive measures are always taken, including reasonable means to
    gain information.... within the prescribed laws of the United States.
    To go "boarding" may be overboard and cause more hysteria against the government. I say no waterboarding.
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:07 PM GMT
    From what I've read ..........the use of torture and waterboarding never gave us reliable information. In the interests of national security and getting more valuable information, the government should employ better methods of getting terrorists to talk.
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Sep 22, 2009 3:10 PM GMT
    what are we doing about motivating people to NOT want to attack us? while it is necessary to root out ant prevent attacks, if we don't get at the fundamental problem we will forever be in the cycle of giving up liberty to protect ourselves.

    please, make no mistake, i'm not for giving the world a group hug to make things all better. i'm just trying to ask a question. what do we do to try and bring this cyle to an end, so that it is not endless?

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    Sep 22, 2009 3:14 PM GMT
    personally, i say give them what they didnt give my fance. A chance... first try them by OUR system, then if convited they get the death sentence... they have a right to an appeal all the way to the supremes and if they are not granted a stay... round them all up and shove a 747 up their ass fully fueled. I think thats how Id like to see them go. And it has to be public... CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Al-Jizera or whatever... ALL OF THEM need to show it.... I think someone needs to take a hit from the movie Swordfish and make our retrobution soo cruel, so evil, so morbid that in no way ever in any shape or form would they ever think to harm an american or any other person for that matter. Just my feelings though. hang ;em by the balls maybe? oh im sorry... terrorist dont have balls.. real men dont hide in caves.
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:14 PM GMT
    KissingPro saidFrom what I've read ..........the use of torture and waterboarding never gave us reliable information. In the interests of national security and getting more valuable information, the government should employ better methods of getting terrorists to talk.



    "THE GOVERNMENT", who exactly is the government other than people like you and me. LOL
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:15 PM GMT
    mustangd saidwhat are we doing about motivating people to NOT want to attack us? while it is necessary to root out ant prevent attacks, if we don't get at the fundamental probelm we will forever be in the cycle of giving up liberty to protect ourselves.

    please, make no mistake, i'm not for giving the world a group hug to make things all better. i'm just trying to ask a question. what do we do to try and bring this cyle to an end, so that it is not endless?



    We should let the rest of the fucking world starve! The amount of money we have been giving in all sorts of aid we can use it to solve our freaking health care issues

    I'm getting worn out with this damn nonsense!
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:35 PM GMT
    Ryan_Andrew saidpersonally, i say give them what they didnt give my fance. A chance... first try them by OUR system, then if convited they get the death sentence... they have a right to an appeal all the way to the supremes and if they are not granted a stay... round them all up and shove a 747 up their ass fully fueled. I think thats how Id like to see them go. And it has to be public... CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Al-Jizera or whatever... ALL OF THEM need to show it.... I think someone needs to take a hit from the movie Swordfish and make our retrobution soo cruel, so evil, so morbid that in no way ever in any shape or form would they ever think to harm an american or any other person for that matter. Just my feelings though. hang ;em by the balls maybe? oh im sorry... terrorist dont have balls.. real men dont hide in caves.


    I agree - make it so expensive to harm an American that they don't ever do it again.

    Enough of this pussyfooting around the issue
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Sep 22, 2009 3:36 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    CuriousJockAZ said This is why I have no problem with the surveillance techniques that the FBI and CIA have to utilize to try and catch these terrorists before they strike. Once they are caught, if waterboarding is what it takes to get them to spill more info about other cells and operations



    Why not just pour acid on them while we're at it??





    Actually, I'm okay with that too. These are despicable people who want to murder innocent American men, women, and children on a subway, in buildings, wherever. Regardless, I would hardly compare waterboarding to pouring acid on someone. Waterboarding scares the shit out of you, but it doesn't hurt you.






    jprichva saidWaterboarding only yielded false information.


    Absolutely NOT true. Sure, it results in a percentage of false information, but it also yields a percentage of true and helpful information. If it only yields 1% true information and helps save innocent lives then it's worth it. These people are the scum of the earth.
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:37 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    HndsmKansan said
    CuriousJockAZ said This is why I have no problem with the surveillance techniques that the FBI and CIA have to utilize to try and catch these terrorists before they strike. Once they are caught, if waterboarding is what it takes to get them to spill more info about other cells and operations



    Why not just pour acid on them while we're at it??



    Actually, I'm okay with that too. These are despicable people who want to murder innocent American men, women, and children on a subway, in buildings, wherever. Regardless, I would hardly compare waterboarding to pouring acid on someone. Waterboarding scares the shit out of you, but it doesn't hurt you.


    Huh? Waterboarding does hurt!
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 22, 2009 3:41 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    HndsmKansan said
    CuriousJockAZ said This is why I have no problem with the surveillance techniques that the FBI and CIA have to utilize to try and catch these terrorists before they strike. Once they are caught, if waterboarding is what it takes to get them to spill more info about other cells and operations



    Why not just pour acid on them while we're at it??



    Actually, I'm okay with that too. These are despicable people who want to murder innocent American men, women, and children on a subway, in buildings, wherever. Regardless, I would hardly compare waterboarding to pouring acid on someone. Waterboarding scares the shit out of you, but it doesn't hurt you.


    Huh? Waterboarding does hurt!




    It does? GOOOOOOD!!!!! But it doesn't kill them. They only THINK they're dieing --- the bastards! icon_lol.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 22, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    jprichva said
    CuriousJockAZ saidIt does? GOOOOOOD!!!!! icon_lol.gif

    So let's be clear about this, Todd. It has nothing to do with gaining useful information, it's about revenge.



    No, it has EVERYTHING to do with gaining useful information. Let's take the guys they just busted. These guys had plans to bomb subways in NYC. These are not nice people. They want to KILL innocent people and they don't care if they have to die themselves doing it. I say do what we have to do to squeeze every possible grain of information out of them and decipher what is and what is not true and in the meantime make life miserable for them and make them wish they never set foot in the U.S.A. Once again, your liberal thinking seems more hell-bent on protecting the bad guys than saving the good guys.
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:48 PM GMT
    John McCain:

    "There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans."

    "If the United States was in another conflict, which could easily happen, with another country, and we have allowed that kind of torture to be inflicted on people we hold captive, then there's nothing to prevent that enemy from also torturing American prisoners."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/politics/main3554687.shtml
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    Sep 22, 2009 3:54 PM GMT
    phemt saidJohn McCain:

    "There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans."

    "If the United States was in another conflict, which could easily happen, with another country, and we have allowed that kind of torture to be inflicted on people we hold captive, then there's nothing to prevent that enemy from also torturing American prisoners."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/politics/main3554687.shtml


    I have to agree with McCain on that point. Go about it the right way once they are caught, tried, and then how we punish them.. then its bitch season. i still say make it so bad that they never even so much as get the itch to think of it again.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Sep 22, 2009 3:58 PM GMT
    phemt saidJohn McCain:

    "There should be little doubt from American history that we consider that as torture otherwise we wouldn't have tried and convicted Japanese for doing that same thing to Americans."

    "If the United States was in another conflict, which could easily happen, with another country, and we have allowed that kind of torture to be inflicted on people we hold captive, then there's nothing to prevent that enemy from also torturing American prisoners."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/29/politics/main3554687.shtml




    No, these enemies don't usually give Americans the benefit of just torture, they would just as soon cut off an American's head, film it, and then put it out for all the world to see. I agree that what Senator McCain says very well might be true, but to think this enemy we are dealing with is going to be serving any American prisoners they take in bon bons and treating them to massages and a mani/pedi is crazy. We don't have time to play nicey nicey with these assholes who are out there plotting to bring down this country any way they possibly can.
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    Sep 22, 2009 4:00 PM GMT
    So what makes us different from those guys doing such horrible things again?
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    Sep 22, 2009 4:03 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    ...
    I agree that what Senator McCain says very well might be true, but to think this enemy we are dealing with is going to be serving any American prisoners they take in bon bons and treating them to massages and a mani/pedi is crazy... .


    I think John McCain knows from experience how Amercian prisoners are treated. icon_wink.gif
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Sep 22, 2009 4:03 PM GMT
    MadeNUSA said
    mustangd saidwhat are we doing about motivating people to NOT want to attack us? while it is necessary to root out ant prevent attacks, if we don't get at the fundamental probelm we will forever be in the cycle of giving up liberty to protect ourselves.

    please, make no mistake, i'm not for giving the world a group hug to make things all better. i'm just trying to ask a question. what do we do to try and bring this cyle to an end, so that it is not endless?



    We should let the rest of the fucking world starve! The amount of money we have been giving in all sorts of aid we can use it to solve our freaking health care issues

    I'm getting worn out with this damn nonsense!


    i think amongst other things we should:

    maintain our vigilance.

    start to give less on air time to all this fear mongering, the " they could attack here, or here, or here.." that just pours gasoline on the fire. remember, these jerks sit by tv's mentally jacking off about how much allah would love them if they attacked us, so, stop giving them so many images. not suggesting we ignore the problem by our actions, am suggesting we give it less air time.

    i would've gone with treating the issue as a law enforcement process, instead of whacking the ice cube with a hammer and sending pieces flying everywhere. no country attacked us, it was a group of people. attacking iraq was a mistake, going in to afghanistan made more sense, as that is where the base of binladen was. but, back to my point. we should take a page from the mossads handbook. they go after people, they go after the people have done israel harm, or want to do so. they do it quietly, it sometimes takes them years, but, they get the people eventually. that should be our position. back when people were kidnapped in lebanon, and held for years, there were a few russians kidnapped, but, they were released unharmed within a few weeks, if i remember right, there was a story in the news that noted that body parts of terrorists were being mailed to muslim agencys in the area. want to bet that was the russian secret police at work?

    my point, the u.s. and the media needs to stop treaing this issue with so much fanfare, just get the job done quietly.

    while, at the same time, trying to figure out how to end this cycle.

    and, reduce our reliance on middle eastern oil, every time we buy gas, some small fraction of the proceeds eventually buys weapons for the terrorists, that is if the profits go back to the middle east, that is where they get their money from, it sure as hell isn't from donations from the poor. yes, iran is a contributor too, but again, if their oil had less value from less demand, they would have less money to fund terrorism.
    lets face it, as long as we buy middle eastern oil, we are funding this issue indirectly. we need a crash program to lessen our energy needs, from oil. while not a single solution, putting the middle east back into the status of having less $$ influence is in our best interest.

    that, and quietly tracking those who would do us harm, and in their part of the world, do as the russian secret police did...
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 22, 2009 4:05 PM GMT
    phemt saidSo what makes us different from those guys doing such horrible things again?


    We're not out there plotting to bring down buildings with jets and take out subways for starters.











    phemt said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    ...
    I agree that what Senator McCain says very well might be true, but to think this enemy we are dealing with is going to be serving any American prisoners they take in bon bons and treating them to massages and a mani/pedi is crazy... .


    I think John McCain knows from experience how Amercian prisoners are treated. icon_wink.gif



    Yes he does, and it isn't pretty...so what's your point?
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    Sep 22, 2009 4:08 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidAbsolutely NOT true. Sure, it results in a percentage of false information, but it also yields a percentage of true and helpful information. If it only yields 1% true information and helps save innocent lives then it's worth it. These people are the scum of the earth.


    Read this piece about an article published in the peer reviewed Trends in Cognitive Science.

    Professor Shane O'Mara of Trinity College, DublinHe said studies of extreme stress with special forces soldiers had found that their recall of previously learned information was impaired afterwards.

    "Waterboarding in particular is an extreme stressor and has the potential to elicit widespread stress-induced changes in the brain."

    Professor O'Mara said contemporary neuroscientific models of human memory showed that the hippocampus and prefrontal cortices of the brain were very important.

    The stress hormone, cortisol, binds to receptors in the hippocampus and prefrontal cortex increasing neuronal excitability which compromises the normal functioning of the brain if it is sustained...

    Psychological studies had suggested that during extreme stress and anxiety, the captive would be conditioned to associate speaking with periods of safety.

    And because torture was stressful for the torturers the fact that the captive was speaking also provided a safety signal to the captor.

    "Making the captive talk may become the end - not the truth of what the captive is revealing.

    "These techniques cause severe, repeated and prolonged stress, which compromises brain tissue supporting memory and executive function.


    Dr Stuart Turner of the Centre for the Study of Emotion and Law the study appeared to be consistent with previous research on memory and trauma and with evidence of previous torture survivors and those in the intelligence community critical of psychological torture techniques...

    "There is now very strong evidence that torture and harsh interrogation techniques may disrupt normal memory processes.


    There is a significant body of literature that says torture, like an oversize cockring, just doesn't work. This was just published yesterday, adding itself to a body of work that the previous administration must have been unaware of. Though, what the current administration is doing remains to be seen, quite literally as FOIL requests go in the shredder.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 22, 2009 4:18 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie said
    There is a significant body of literature that says torture, like an oversize cockring, just doesn't work.


    Call me bullheaded, but I don't care how many studies have been published, I find it very hard to believe that if you line up 10 terrorists and waterboard every one of them that not a single one of them will yield any useful information. It's that one weak link among these assholes that could blurt out something that could lead to saving innocent Americans. Personally, if all they are getting is waterboarded, they are getting off easy.
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    Sep 22, 2009 4:18 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    phemt saidSo what makes us different from those guys doing such horrible things again?



    We're not out there plotting to bring down buildings with jets and take out subways for starters.











    phemt said
    CuriousJockAZ said
    ...
    I agree that what Senator McCain says very well might be true, but to think this enemy we are dealing with is going to be serving any American prisoners they take in bon bons and treating them to massages and a mani/pedi is crazy... .


    I think John McCain knows from experience how Amercian prisoners are treated. icon_wink.gif



    Yes he does, and it isn't pretty...so what's your point?


    My point is that he knows the enemy isn't serving "bon bons" - yet he believes we shouldn't torture and holds America to a higher standard.
    During WWII the Germans, Japanese, and Russians all tortured (yes I know the Russians were on our side) - The US didn't. I am proud when we as Americans hold ourselves to a higher standard. It reminds me that we are something special and different.
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Sep 22, 2009 4:25 PM GMT
    phemt said
    During WWII the Germans, Japanese, and Russians all tortured (yes I know the Russians were on our side) - The US didn't. I am pround when we as Americans hold ourselves to a higher standard. It reminds me that we are something special and different.


    That was then, this is now, and we are dealing with a whole different kind of enemy in the 21st Century in a technological age that is way more dangerous and time is not on our side. Like I said before, if all they are getting is waterboarded, they are getting off easy because, if the situation were reversed, they would probably just cut off an American's head and leave it on the side of a road. Even on our worst day we have a higher standard than this enemy.