|
|
Sep 25, 2009 6:58 PM GMT
I'm just thinking out loud for us single gay men that never married and have no children, what happens to us when we age? I'm just thinking because both my parents are getting to age of not being able to take care of themselves. My dad has lung cancer, and my mom's a diabetic on insulin with lots of health issues. It makes me think of when I age, what's goin gto happen to me. Yea I have some friends but they have their own lives. It's scary to think about. Just wondering if you guys ever think about it. I'm sure I'm not the only one.  |
|
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 7:17 PM GMT
Yes, aging can be a scary thing for anyone single, gay or straight.
One thing to consider is Long Term Care Insurance. It can give you piece of mind.
Another thing to do is self preservation, keeping your body healthy and having safe fun.
I find that giving Mega Hairy Muscle Hugs to guys makes both them and myself feel much better.
You're a young guy, so don't worry too much.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 7:30 PM GMT
Yeah...getting old is pretty much my biggest fear...Good thing I'm Asian...we age very slowly :]
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 7:55 PM GMT
I considered this also several years ago. I decided on addressing it in a few ways.
Physical
1.) Take care of yourself in a sensible (not over the top) way. Eat healthy, get exercise through either consistent workouts or regular (at LEAST 3 times a week) strenuous activity.
2.) Relax. Devote an hour or two every day to a relaxing and/or cathartic task. Don't relax your life away. For example, relaxing is what you do after a workout not after your bored. Make it a reward for hard physical work you've done.
3.) Don't watch more than a few hours of TV a day.
Mental
4.) Learn new skills and develop yourself intellectually and culturally. Make sure that this aspect of self development isn't easy. It should challenge your mind. Don't learn just to cook, learn to master Parisian French cuisine. Don't learn to make a bookcase, learn to reproduce an authentic mission style piece of furniture. Don't just maintain your old Ford Falcon, learn to rebuild the engine and do it. Your mind can atrophy as easily as a muscle will and once it starts to go, there's not a lot you can do to recover it.
5.) Decide you're going to do something(s) that you've never done because you thought you were incapable, too old, or unskilled in. Keep thins in mind:
"If you think you can or think you can't, either way you're right!"
Social
6.) Network with friends. Don't focus on getting into a relationship, focus on developing good friends. Do that and a good relationship is far more likely to happen on its own. If you have family that your close to, include them in your life. If they are a hindrance to you, then leave them out of it. It is your life.
7.) Be happy being single. Don't gloat about it and don't moan about it. It is simply a state of being that is no better or worse than the state of being in a relationship. If your not happy as a single man, your going to be unhappy in a relationship.
8.) Join local clubs, special interest societies or even an accepting church where you can share a common interest with others, or help the less fortunate in your own community (there's plenty to do in the White Plains area). Sing in the local Gay Mens Chorus, become a Candy Stripper (do they still exist?), help at a nearby historical organization, volunteer at the soup kitchen.
So far this has really helped my life and it will continue to. I gathered this from the people I know who are in there 70's to 90's who are active and happy and many of whom live by themselves.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 8:00 PM GMT
I am worrying about myself being single the rest of my life  |
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 8:01 PM GMT
Just want to add my 2 cents worth as I turn 50 next year. Man, number one thing to work on is DON'T BE AFRAID. Worrying, stress and anxiety about things that have not happened yet is a gigantic waste of energy that only ends up making you lose the moment of now. Stay cool about it and, as I've seen it so far, try to keep on track with the following things:
- Save money. Don't hang onto every cent and sacrifice fun all the time, but make sure you are putting money away. Become financially savvy. You dont have to be a Wall Street banker, but learn how to maximize your money, pay your bills, and SAVE SAVE SAVE.Dont get caught up in having what everyone else "seems" to have. Make sure you can afford what you buy! And if you can't...wait until you can!
- Make the gym a priority. Staying in shape will not only extend your "attractive years," which as gay men is no small deal, but it will also help delay the inevitable physical problems of aging that start creeping in over 45. Being fit and disciplined with diet and gym will help make these problems and changes far more manageable and less impactful. Don't smoke, don't mess around with a lot of drugs, just use your brain.
- Have good friends. There are all types of connections in this world, from casual friends, to sex buddies, to work friends, to relationships. But nothing more important that true, reliable, loyal friends. Treat them well and make them important. You dont have to have a huge social network, just one or two really true friends. Long-term gay romantic relationships are not the most stable, reliable or guaranteed connections...despite our drive to try and have them. But friends, true friends, are invaluable and will see you thru the good and the bad.
-Have faith. Spend time with your Spirituality, your connection with God or the universe or whatever it is that lies behind this existence. Ask for help, meditate, think positively. If there's nothing out there listening to us, spirituality can at least help you come up with the answers yourself.
Aging is not always easy. But the changes that happen, the things you have to deal with are a lot less scary if you just stay grounded and remember that your skill set grows over time. Your experiences in life help give you the skills to handle the situations that seem overwhelming or really scary when you are younger. But DON'T BE AFRAID!
We have nothing to fear but fear itself...no truer statement was ever said!
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 8:13 PM GMT
And I would add that a good relationship...the kind we've had in our heads since we first realized there was an empowering connection that could be made between a man and a woman - and between same sexes...is not always easy to find in the gay culture. Most of us grew up having to hide our sexuality and didn't obtain the skills of relationship building that traditional dating and societal approval give the str8 world. Gay men, not all but many, often have a lot of issues and are often disfunctional when it comes to the type of traditional relationships and dating we see in the str8 world. Gay relationships are a lot of work. Just don't let that part of your brain that seeks the security of a relationship overwhelm you with fear if you don't manage to get one. Or allow you to think your life would be this great, safe, secure, completed bliss that being single is supposedly not. There are distinct and real advantages to both sides of the track. But you will succeed at being single or partnered ONLY if you are independent and confident and a survivor...one who knows he will be just fine fine whether he has a romantic relationship or not. Being gay isn't easy, being single isn't easy. But its not the end of the world. Unless you spend your time worrying about it and torturing yourself. Cut yourself some slack and enjoy life. It friggin' flies by so give yourself a break and let things happen!
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 8:15 PM GMT
Wow i didnt think I'd even get any responses. In response to Ironjungle.
I do think pretty positive, I have a good job of 20 yrs, I do not do drugs or drink alcohol or have any promiscuos sex anymore as I did when younger. I do exercise atleast 4 days a week. Those things will help me preserve my self and live longer yes, but what's the reason to live longer without any loved ones in your life? That was my point.
We all in our younger years try to look great and be "hot" ( which I hate this word) and once we start aging if we have not met that special someone, whats left? Yeah i have friends, but most have partners or are straight and have kids.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 8:36 PM GMT
italianguy63 saidWow i didnt think I'd even get any responses. In response to Ironjungle.
I do think pretty positive, I have a good job of 20 yrs, I do not do drugs or drink alcohol or have any promiscuos sex anymore as I did when younger. I do exercise atleast 4 days a week. Those things will help me preserve my self and live longer yes, but what's the reason to live longer without any loved ones in your life? That was my point.
We all in our younger years try to look great and be "hot" ( which I hate this word) and once we start aging if we have not met that special someone, whats left? Yeah i have friends, but most have partners or are straight and have kids. well unless you are good black, that don't crack - be prepared to shell out some of that loot in nips and tucks to maintain the youthful looking package  that's what's left |
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 9:00 PM GMT
We all in our younger years try to look great and be "hot" ( which I hate this word) and once we start aging if we have not met that special someone, whats left? Yeah i have friends, but most have partners or are straight and have kids. [/quote]
Loved ones need not be confined to just a romantic partner. And what makes your life satisfying and worthwhile will not be determined by the presence of a partner. Honestly, I dont have all the answers...as I grapple with these issues too. If I dont end up with someone, then thats the way it goes....I will try to do some good things, try to be a good friend and try to get thru life enjoying it as much as I can. There are new and unexpected opportunities to meet someone every day, and anything can happen in life, but you are seeing realtionships as the sole way to happiness. Bro, there's an expression something like "all roads lead to Rome." Meaning, there's more than one way to be happy and lead a fulfilled rewarding life. Give yourself some breathing room and some options and giving those other roads a chance, as well as the one that includes a relationship. The world is not black and white, yes and no. Your thinking is going to end up chosing whether this journey is a good one or not, not a relationship.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 9:19 PM GMT
Find really good friends and if you can find someone special (boyfriend/husband) that's great too. Remember nothing is a given in life gay or straight. Just surround yourself with great people and I'll be fine.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 9:20 PM GMT
Take care of yourself.
Adopt children.
Make more friends.
Be god father or mentor to kids.
Participate in community service.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 9:21 PM GMT
I'm not afraid of getting old in fact i'm proud to be getting older and still be in such good health. However, one of my biggest fears as a gay man is growing old alone. I feel that life is to be shared with someone and the thought of not having anyone there to share things with when i age does bother me. Granted i'm not willing to settle for the first man that comes along but at some point i may have to.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 9:21 PM GMT
two biblical sayings come to mind:
Teach us to number our days aright,
that we may gain a heart of wisdom.
Show me, O LORD, my life's end
and the number of my days;
let me know how fleeting is my life.
I think a fearful anticipation of getting old is counterproductive, but certainly making provisions for it is good. Also consider that what you do now towards others will determine who stays around in the form of friends and family. The goodness you put out will come back to you. Build loving and compassionate connections with others now that will follow you as you get older. It is the wisdom of kindness.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 10:32 PM GMT
Find a wife, marry her. At 57 years old, it was the best thing I have ever done.
Being old, single and frightfully lonely was a source of terror in my younger days!
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 10:45 PM GMT
stu1 saidIs there any organizations out there that assist the elderly gay people who live alone? I would like to volunteer some help. you know that's a brilliant idea. i would do the same |
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 10:58 PM GMT
Being gay is not the same thing. 2-5% of the population for us versus 95-98% for them. And we don't give a shit what happens to each other, nor do we even care to know how to help out other gay men that make up this tiny percentage of the population. We see so little of each other that we don't even know how to be around each other sometimes unless we're stoned, high or drunk. With that said...
I'm with you on that one too, Italianguy. I haven't met anyone now since 1995 and have pretty much concluded that he's not coming back (lol) and it doesn't appear that there are many other gay guys who are looking for anything serious, much to my disappointment. There are many times where I definitely regret coming out. The gay men I knew who stayed closeted and had kids (and a few of them came out later in life) seem MUCH happier - their kids understood, in many cases their wives knew all along; in some cases the wives wanted nothing to do with them again. But at least they had the opportunity to be a dad. Single gay men for the most part will never get that chance. It's getting harder to adopt for anyone who isn't in a heterosexual marriage that has lasted at least ten years. Some countries require that just to start with. Many places will never let a single man adopt a child. There is the surrogate option but most of the gay men I've seen do this have extraordinary incomes and money will never be an issue for them. I can pretty much forget about it. So forgetting about the two things I wanted most when I had this great idea to come out: to find a gay man to share my life with and also to still be a parent someday, are two things I've learned to cross off my list about 5-7 years ago.
What hurts the most are the support networks that were set up years ago and especially with non-gay friends when they see what this has done to my emotional health, they no longer ask about my life. They don't ask if I go to Pride. They are no longer interested in anything that has to do with being gay. They see the effects of it when they look into my eyes. There is no party and there never was - that's in the campy movies and in fictional characters on the sitcoms with the stereotypical gay guy. Never in those movies are there topics that deal with the general hate and malice that goes on between gay men. So not only are we outcasts in mainstream society, we make sure that we outcast each other in gay society as well. Learning that at a young age has helped me tremendously - I see gay guys who still appear shell shocked at 40, 50 and up - thinking that all gay guys were supposed to be there for them, how could they betray each other? How could we lie to each other and rip each other off so much? Look at what we came into! A community with no rules, completely anonymous (even more so today with the internet) no relationships (that we knew much about) that ever lasted, and lots and lots of drugs and alcohol to numb out whatever we felt when we woke up alone the next day.
It's now 2009 and those of us who are still here and still healthy have learned something:
1) A lot of us who've been out for a while know that we aren't going to find anyone who has the ability to be a partner in a relationship that is going to lead to marriage. Theoretically, sure, it could happen, but a lot of gay men are still trying to figure out how to even get to first base and meet someone - 15-20 years after most straight teenagers learn these things. Most of us will be playing catch up for the rest of our lives or continue to wait for someone or something that is very unlikely to happen.
2) Our expectations are so overinflated that we set ourselves up for misery. That has to change. If we are going to live very long, especially with this recession/depression, we have to understand that we will experience being poor. The majority of us live so far beyond our means that we don't get it when society scoffs at our wanting civil rights - so many gay men have so much and live so high above anyone else it's like you're saying that Beverly Hills needs more soup kitchens. When mainstream society sees what you have and how you live, come on. It's very hard to have sympathy for anyone who has more money and education than you will ever dream of having. The sad thing is that most of us go into debt just to appear like we have things - the truth is that most of us, too, are barely getting by. There is no shame in being gay and poor.
3) Take care of yourself but don't go overboard. Meaning that we often overdo it when it comes to just about everything - the more expensive it is the better it must be, right? Do things that make you happy but in moderation. The reason why most straight married men get that checkup is because there is a wife pushing him to do it. Understand that we are probably not going to have that other person there to look out for us. It's going to be us at the end of the day looking out for ourselves. Like the one guy said about long term plans and insurance - definitely. Look into all these things now so that you don't have to deal with them while you're dealing with ten other things when you're 30 years older.
4) Last ones standing: the hardest and most unfair thing is that we are going to be the ones in our families who will see everyone else die. Get used to that idea now. Don't dwell on it, but be aware of it. Understand that for us, being alone, it is going to be much more difficult than for your siblings who have spouses and kids. For us, again alone, losing parents will be the worst thing we will go through. So at this point in your life, do everything you can for them. Mend fences. Get to know them. Help them out. You'll be glad you did later on.
I don't mean to make this a session of misery but reality - open up any gay magazine and it's as if we've all realized our dreams and are raking in money and getting married. That's maybe the upper 5% of the gay world. Lastly, remember you are not the only one thinking this! Don't be afraid to talk about it because it's on our minds too!
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 11:00 PM GMT
Being gay is not much different than being straight. Most marriages end in divorce or your partner dying first so you will be alone anyway. Having some one to change your bedpan when u get old is a lame excuse for getting into a long term relationship. Slightly off f topic but have you seen Grand Torino?
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 11:16 PM GMT
DuluthMN saidBeing gay is not the same thing. 2-5% of the population for us versus 95-98% for them. And we don't give a shit what happens to each other, nor do we even care to know how to help out other gay men that make up this tiny percentage of the population. We see so little of each other that we don't even know how to be around each other sometimes unless we're stoned, high or drunk. With that said...
I'm with you on that one too, Italianguy. I haven't met anyone now since 1995 and have pretty much concluded that he's not coming back (lol) and it doesn't appear that there are many other gay guys who are looking for anything serious, much to my disappointment. There are many times where I definitely regret coming out. The gay men I knew who stayed closeted and had kids (and a few of them came out later in life) seem MUCH happier - their kids understood, in many cases their wives knew all along; in some cases the wives wanted nothing to do with them again. But at least they had the opportunity to be a dad. Single gay men for the most part will never get that chance. It's getting harder to adopt for anyone who isn't in a heterosexual marriage that has lasted at least ten years. Some countries require that just to start with. Many places will never let a single man adopt a child. There is the surrogate option but most of the gay men I've seen do this have extraordinary incomes and money will never be an issue for them. I can pretty much forget about it. So forgetting about the two things I wanted most when I had this great idea to come out: to find a gay man to share my life with and also to still be a parent someday, are two things I've learned to cross off my list about 5-7 years ago.
hmmmmm interesting... so perhaps gay is somewhat of a misnomer... sort of seemed force... a desperate attempt to appear sanguine. i feel the pathos in your statements ... |
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 11:49 PM GMT
I'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it.
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2009 11:57 PM GMT
torqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it. HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA 32 and old? |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 1:42 AM GMT
Being coupled as you age, though wonderful, gives nothing more than a false sense of security regarding this. Anything can happen to either one of them at any time. One who's coupled has no more guarantees than the single man.
And aging can be, and is for me, an adventure if you're not drowning in the fantasy that is youth.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 1:44 AM GMT
TallGWMvballer saidtorqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA 32 and old?  |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 1:46 AM GMT
torqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it. If this is what old and single looks like then dam it sign me up!!! |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 1:51 AM GMT
I am just 7 months away from being 48 and have been single for a little bit longer than a decade now. The only thing about growing old is the possibility of losing my mental capacity to take care of myself. Do I want to be in a relationship and get married. Yeh, of course I do. But I made peace along time ago with the possibility of it never happening. I have my days where I wish, but it's cool. Even at 48, I have had to start over again in other areas because of the loss of the job, the car, the savings, etc. Even gave up working out a few months ago because of the stress. But I have to look forward. At the end of the day, I am responsible for my own happiness and no one else. I lost my job last year, along with my car, and recently the apartment because of a bad choice in friends and roommates. So I instituted what I like to call "Operation New Direction". I started a new job two weeks ago and it is going well. I just got approval for a new place (albeit sharing the townhouse with 3 other people, but I will have my own lease) and next item on the agenda is the car by Christmas.
I use to be afraid of the progression of my life, thinking that I would never measure up. The lesson, at least for me, is that as much of a cliche' as it is and may sound, the time I have is up to me to make the most of it and to always keep moving forward.
Chin up fellows. Life is never meant to be a cake walk, but it can be if we keep our eyes, mind and hearts open to what it has to offer.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 2:32 AM GMT
GFORCE said
Being coupled as you age, though wonderful, gives nothing more than a false sense of security regarding this. Anything can happen to either one of them at any time. One who's coupled has no more guarantees than the single man.
Very true indeed. A life partner can make things a lot easier but every coupled guy needs to mentally prepare for the potential of losing his partner. Even younger guys can be lost in an accident. It seems to me relationships with your community, with younger people in the community or extended family, is what will renew the spirit, so to speak. There's always going to be new blood in the community, new children being born, new young folks moving in, etc. They will bring in new concepts and new ways of thinking which will contribute to a vibrant life for older folks. Continued learning and exploring does this as well. Personally, I cannot imagine ever living in a retirement community that is devoid of children. As one ages his/her mental capacity becomes more child-like, they tend to interact well with children and enjoy the company of kids. Of course guys with comfortable-sized nest eggs can afford to be entertained by younger people (hospitality workers etc) while they travel or participate in leisure activities, poorer guys won't have that opportunity unless they already have friendships with younger people. Helping the children of your community through teaching or volunteer service is I think one of the more rewarding ways to renew your spirit. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 2:39 AM GMT
torqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it. That makes me really feel old. Now get off my lawn!  |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:20 AM GMT
I figure if it happens then it happens. I will have no one to blame for my loneliness but myself. There are so many things one can do to alter his future. I won't regress and start having regrets on any decisions I've made. It doesn't solve a thing. I'll just keep pushing forward, make mistakes and learn from them.
As much as I'd like to be in a relationship I'm not gonna force myself into one just for the sake of not being alone when I get old. If I end up staying single for my entire existence then that's just how the card game of Life is played and my hand clearly wasn't strong enough to defy Fate. It happens.
So many people put so much emphasis on relationships that half their problem comes from wanting too much. Yes, I said it. Merely wanting a relationship isn't good enough to sustain a relationship and people are very careless about that to the point that they make grave mistakes that generally end in nightmares.
I say life the moment and be happy with the way things are. If you aren't then by all means please change but do it for you and not for the sake of just wanting. Being single isn't the end of the world and dying alone isn't such a bad thing as long as you can say you lived a full life and had fun while doing it.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:24 AM GMT
People who blame everyone but themselves for relationship issues and see overwhelming negativity with potential relationships will never have a successful relationship as long as they are in that mode. Life will be a self-fulfilling prophecy as people run in the other direction when they see you coming.
Everyone loves a happy, kind, loving person except those drowning in their own misery. In other words, rise above your misery and negativity.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:31 AM GMT
Of course i think about it, and it can be a scary thought, Thank heavens i have some really great friends who love and care about me...We all stick together very closely, i guess it's because most of our friends have passed away,,so we hold on tight to each other.....
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:56 AM GMT
I was a late bloomer at 45, and one of the things I quickly encountered were single gay men, my age or older, who were absolutely desperate to find a partner. They'd all say basically the same thing: they didn't want to grow old and die all alone, with no family, no loved ones, no one with them, no one to take care of them. Some even cried while telling me this. What an introduction to the gay world! I felt so sorry for them, and also became concerned about myself, that I might be that way some day, too. At the same time, however, I also learned to avoid overly desperate men. I'd like to think someone wants me for me as a loving person, not as their attendant, or for the security of my money. The gay world can be very cruel to its own senior citizens. It's a young man's game, and many don't want to know you once you pass 40, or even 30. I often joke that I'm 147 in "gay years" though actually 60 now. Aging isn't pretty, I'll tell you that much. But I found 2 loving partners in my 50s, so it isn't impossible, especially considering what a poor prize I make. Sickness & mortality are all around you, and indeed my first partner died. You realize that fact when you start attending more funerals than marriages or commitment ceremonies. My partial solution is to live where gay retirees are common. At many gay restaurants & bars that I attend, the elderly outnumber the young. That helps a lot. Our group of friends has Friday night get togethers at a local gay club, upwards of 15 or more of us, no one younger than mid-40s, my partner & I usually the oldest couple, but others very close behind us. Yet everyone keeps themselves in pretty good shape, certainly way ahead ahead of my parents' generation. Many of you here know I pedaled a bike 165 miles over 2 days last November for an AIDS fundraiser, and will do it again this January. My father would never have done that in his 60s, or really ever. I'm not afraid of old age now, though neither do I like it an awful lot, to be quite honest. I've created my own survival strategies, and I'm as happy and secure as I think is possible for me. Some gay men do best as loners, others do better with a life partner. I discovered I was the "marrying kind" so I stay married, and our hope is that neither of us will significantly outlive the other. And when the time comes, maybe do something perfectly timed together, like both go down on the Titanic II... LOL! |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:10 PM GMT
As is often the case, BGCat57, MtnDudeSF and Red Vespa write with wisdom (RedBull too! :wink  . In a nutshell, my aim (which I don't always live up to) is to be my own best friend, to take care of myself (by staying healthy, doing things I love, staying close to people that matter to me, staying curious, remembering that pain is part of life, but suffering is optional, and trying to be of service. My hunch is that, if we do these things, we are more likely to be attractive (at any age) to people we can love and who will love us. And, alone or with another, we have the best chance of being happy. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:20 PM GMT
Remember to stay away or limit these "S's" in your life
1. Stress
2. Sugar
3. Too much Sun
4. Smoking
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:24 PM GMT
Damn!!! Gay life sounds awfully depressing
I think I may need to re consider this after all
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:24 PM GMT
oh and I forgot another big S
1. Stress
2. Sugar
3. Too much Sun
4. Smoking
5. Promiscuous Sex
Sex in a healthy, loving relationship is very good for your however. Even if it's only with yourself.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:26 PM GMT
And the number of men we have rejected over the years for the stupidest of reasons- we deserve to be alone. The universe after all can only handle but so much
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:39 PM GMT
I'm one of those "Life is what you make it" type guys. At 51, I have never felt better or had a better outlook on life...and it took many years to get to this place. I would never want to go back to the angst, confusion, and self-doubt and fears of my youth and young adulthood. With age comes a certain peace of mind and confidence that is gained through life experience and making a few mistakes a long the way that you learn from. If you allow yourself to wallow in anything -- in this case "getting older" -- you're obviously going to be unhappy and miserable. That's no way to live. You can't do a damn thing about getting older (no one is immune to aging), so just accept it and roll with it. Surrounding yourself with friends and staying active is key.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:41 PM GMT
CuriousJockAZ saidI'm one of those "Life is what you make it" type guys. At 51, I have never felt better or had a better outlook on life...and it took many years to get to this place. I would never want to go back to the angst, confusion, and self-doubt and fears of my youth and young adulthood. With age comes a certain peace of mind and confidence that is gained through life experience and making a few mistakes a long the way that you learn from. If you allow yourself to wallow in anything -- in the case "getting older" -- you're obviously going to be unhappy and miserable. That's no way to live. You can't do a damn thing about getting older, so just accept it and roll with it. Surrounding yourself with friends and staying active is key. You lie as always! Stay in bed! Take some pills and be done with it! Go out on top - is what I say! |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:43 PM GMT
REVOLUTIONARY EXERCISE: PEN AND PAPER!
Italianguy63, THAT WAS A GREAT FORUM QUESTION. Wow! You've had some interesting and questionable comments. I've realized in life that the best way to work through uncertainty and fear of the unknown is doing an timeless exercise requiring a pen and paper (WORD or EXCEL for the TECH generation) - weighing the pros and cons. I'm a Libra and the symbol that represent us is a balance. I tend to weigh lots of my personal enigmas in my balance of life. FIGHTING AGAINST FEAR AND FRUSTRATION IS COUNTERPRODUCTIVE! Rather, I guide it to satisfaction and fulfillment. And here's how it works:
Write your question down. WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN ME WHEN I AGE? Create 2 columns. For every negative answer think of a positive one. Here's an example:
Negative: I'll loose mobility.
Positive: I'll be able to play games all day!
It might sound ridiculous now, but what ends up happening is after a while, you condition yourself to see the bright side of a negative thought. It forces you to think positive until, you actually get to a point where you don't think negatively as much anymore. In the beginning, it's time consuming, because lots of fears and frustrations will pop in your head. Eventually they'll just trickle down to almost none. And happily, you'll have more positive thoughts invading your mind that... you'll keep a prosperous smile on you face... and you'll stay active. Lastly, the pen and paper will eventually be replaced by you doing this exercise in your head.
P.S. Having grown up around senior citizens (parents had a private care home) I learned at an early age that worry warts age horribly and happy people who keep themselves occupied live happier, if not longer!
GOOD LUCK!
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 3:47 PM GMT
SpikerMtl saidHaving grown up around senior citizens (parents had a private care home) I learned at an early age that worry warts age horribly and happy people who keep themselves occupied live happier, if not longer!
This is so true. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:03 PM GMT
DuluthMN said I haven't met anyone now since 1995.... There are many times where I definitely regret coming out... the general hate and malice that goes on between gay men. So not only are we outcasts in mainstream society, we make sure that we outcast each other in gay society as well. Whenever I read Duluth's posts I have the sense that they're coming from some unrecognizable alien universe. Gay men are no better and no worse than their hetero counterparts. Granted we have a few more obstacles to overcome in finding and keeping stable relationships but a very substantial percentage of us manage to do that. An equal number of us say they have no wish to be partnered because they prefer their independence. You can be happy and at peace whether single or partnered as long as you find rewards in the life you have without pining for some imaginary life that you don't. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:08 PM GMT
This hits a raw nerve for me right now, and wanted to share my situation. I am 44, my best and closest friend is 63. We are both gay, he has Parkinson's Disease and has been a sufferer for over 25 years.
Whilst we have never been romantically or emotionally attached, I have lived with him and been his primary carer for 20 years. He has needed significant support over the last several years. We have both lived in his home, we co-own a second and I have a third home. He has planned to leave his house to me so that I had security if anything ever happened to him.
He fell this spring, facturing his hip and he has been hospitalised since. There has been no tangible rehabilitation plan; he can no longer walk, he is now incontinent and can now barely speak and despite my desperate attempts to get clinical staff to understand it is the way he has been treated has been the root cause of this, no one will listen. I am very weary.
He has been told he now needs to be in full time Nursing Care, which in my view is wrong but I am powerless to do anything as he has family (one sister and brother in law) who have been given Power of Attourney, who incidentally see him very infrequently. The sister visited him once between Christmas to the time he had the accident in May. He could live out another 20 years and he has been confined to a home with people who are 90+.
Nursing care is covered by the Health Service in the UK, so he does not have to meet any of this cost, yet his family instigated a legal battle this week to force a sale of his home and get me out, and also try and force sale of a secondary home. It seems they are aware of his will and are trying to prevent me being the main beneficiary. Thankfully, they unwittingly approached his solicitor, a fellow gay man and he also repesents me, and he has tipped me off. His family has not had the decency to talk to me about it.
So, aside from having to sit by and watch someone I care for be institutionalised I am left with a fight to keep a roof over my head. He is oblivious to this.
My point here is this:- MAKE PLANS, and make sure the people you appoint to do the right thing for you - you trust. You need to truly believe your trustees will understand what your needs are and will follow your wishes. I am a great advocate of staying active / healthy but you will never know what the future may bring.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:19 PM GMT
TexDef07 said Whenever I read Duluth's posts I have the sense that they're coming from some unrecognizable alien universe. Dante would recognize it. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:21 PM GMT
TexDef07 said...You can be happy and at peace whether single or partnered as long as you find rewards in the life you have without pining for some imaginary life that you don't. I am too happy in my gay life to ever want to return to the straight life I once tried to have. It's not imaginary to me at all; I've lived on both sides of the fence. We are happiest when we live the life to which we were destined from birth. If you are straight, then a straight life is your happiest route, and all my blessings to you. If we didn't have straight couples, the human race would soon become extinct. I never knock straights, if they extend to me the same understanding I do to them. If you are gay, then live gay. That's what you are, what you do best. You also contribute to the betterment of the human race. Even if many straights don't understand or accept that, and US Republicans seek to persecute & eliminate us, as do other bigots around the world. We keep trying, and someday, doubtful in my lifetime, we will succeed.  |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
italianguy63 saidWow i didnt think I'd even get any responses. In response to Ironjungle.
I do think pretty positive, I have a good job of 20 yrs, I do not do drugs or drink alcohol or have any promiscuos sex anymore as I did when younger. I do exercise atleast 4 days a week. Those things will help me preserve my self and live longer yes, but what's the reason to live longer without any loved ones in your life? That was my point.
We all in our younger years try to look great and be "hot" ( which I hate this word) and once we start aging if we have not met that special someone, whats left? Yeah i have friends, but most have partners or are straight and have kids. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whats left? you ask !!! My friend you should embrace life at every age, and as an old song says "Roll with it baby". Life is great at every age, you will find that there are many plus's to ageing, the self security, the knowledge that comes from experiencing life, the learned abitlity to "Roll with it baby", but its all up to you how well you adjust. No one can adjust in a positive way but you. Another thing life should teach you is to no rely on anyone else for your happyness, 'everywhere you go there you are' so like yourself first and foremost, and enjoy yourself by doing those things that bring you pleasure and you won't be so dependent on someone else for your enjoyment. Its imperitive to a positive well adjusted life that you do------like yourself. Even in a relationship a person shouldn't depend on that other person for their enjoyment and how well they feel ab out themselves, cause if that's the way it is the relationship will suffer and expectations won't be met. Good luck to you !!! |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:31 PM GMT
jprichva saidTexDef07 said Whenever I read Duluth's posts I have the sense that they're coming from some unrecognizable alien universe.
Dante would recognize it. I don't think he would. Even the most wretched souls in Dante realize they are where they are because of moral choices. Dante's guide is the poet Vergil who represents Reason. Dante wouldn't recognize a world as nihilistic as Duluth's where apparently rational choice means nothing because all are damned regardless of what they do. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:40 PM GMT
chichpa,
Thanks for your comment. That is a tremendous reminder of why legal protections are so important for us. I have heard of many other stories where long-lost blood relatives swoop in after a gay man or lesbian's death and dispossess the surviving partner, and I've personally known a few. Opponents of domestic partnerships or marriage equality will often say "They're totally legally protected. Why do they need to call it 'marriage'?" Stories like yours are dramatic evidence of why drafting up a few legal documents just isn't enough. We need equality, period.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:42 PM GMT
[quote][cite]DuluthMN said[/cite][/quote]
Duluth, I feel for you. A lot of the challenges you mentioned are real for sure. Wanting to live near your parents in a small city can make it difficult to meet gay guys, especially black or latino men you're interested in. Since many gay guys have migrated to bigger cities once they reach adulthood nowadays, there are probably slimmer pickings everywhere else. A major change you can make to better your chances might be to pick up and move to a bigger city, like Chicago.
I don't think the negative picture you paint of the gay community is balanced however. For sure it is not "full-service" like the hetero community because of our lack of numbers and lack of legal protection. We're mostly anonymous, we have to try harder to socialize with our kind, and many of us in the community are not the most mentally balanced people. Living a gay life is a lot more challenging than living a hetero life, so I sympathize with your assessment of gays who came out after having straight marriage and kids.
In life one needs to make a choice when encountering challenges: is it prudent to take on the challenge or not? What is the reward? Can I succeed? Each of us need to make that choice. Personally I feel despite the challenges, I'm living the way I want and that is all the justification I need. In the last 20 years I've come closer and closer to it. I knew I wasn't going to get to the ideal situation in one leap. I don't have kids yet but hopefully it will happen in due time.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 4:57 PM GMT
realifedad saiditalianguy63 saidWow i didnt think I'd even get any responses. In response to Ironjungle.
I do think pretty positive, I have a good job of 20 yrs, I do not do drugs or drink alcohol or have any promiscuos sex anymore as I did when younger. I do exercise atleast 4 days a week. Those things will help me preserve my self and live longer yes, but what's the reason to live longer without any loved ones in your life? That was my point.
We all in our younger years try to look great and be "hot" ( which I hate this word) and once we start aging if we have not met that special someone, whats left? Yeah i have friends, but most have partners or are straight and have kids. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whats left? you ask !!! My friend you should embrace life at every age, and as an old song says "Roll with it baby". Life is great at every age, you will find that there are many plus's to ageing, the self security, the knowledge that comes from experiencing life, the learned abitlity to "Roll with it baby", but its all up to you how well you adjust. No one can adjust in a positive way but you. Another thing life should teach you is to no rely on anyone else for your happyness, 'everywhere you go there you are' so like yourself first and foremost, and enjoy yourself by doing those things that bring you pleasure and you won't be so dependent on someone else for your enjoyment. Its imperitive to a positive well adjusted life that you do------like yourself. Even in a relationship a person shouldn't depend on that other person for their enjoyment and how well they feel ab out themselves, cause if that's the way it is the relationship will suffer and expectations won't be met. Good luck to you !!! Well said! Some guys are good at being self-sufficient, some guys are more at home in social situations. However if you want social life you shouldn't be passive and wait for it to drop on your head. Develop relationships. Initiate contact with people. Try to attract attention by being innovative in something. Do something for the community, usually that's a good ice breaker. When you're young and "hot" people may come to you on their own, don't depend on that. |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 5:18 PM GMT
Neophoenician - you are right that we need equality. In many ways we have come very far in the last 20 years but in other ways, things have hardly moved.
It is not just the legal angle here though - I am watching someone be inappropiately treated and I am battling against his family's ignorance (who seem intent at times to contradict me at will). The brother in law commented it was the best he had seen him in over 8 years during a review meeting. I could count on one hand the times the brother in law has visited in eight years, let alone be in a position to make such a dumb assed comment. Tony could walk, talk, go to the toilet unassisted pre fall, so how could anyone possibly say he was better?
He entrusted the family because he did not want to make waves - the 'bury your head in the sand' attitude - yet their ignorance is now contributing to his inappropriate care, which at best will lead to a quality of life so low it does not bear thinking of.
So, from that point of view, make sure you know and TOTALLY trust people that can help you make your decisions, despite how unpopular it may make you.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 5:19 PM GMT
torqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it. I am older I am single I am loving it!!! Just a few thoughts: The past is gone, the future is a dream, you only have now! Make it the best now you can! You are the only person that will go with you from birth to death. When you look in the mirror in the morning naked before you take your shower..... that is all you have, all the rest is stuff. But it is amazing, your physical, mind and heart. Be good to yourself treat yourself well! For all of you that have trouble looking in the mirror in the morning, learn to face your fears. Learn to face your fears in all aspects of life. The end point is death learn it is the journey that counts both good and bad. Love the one your with for as long as it lasts. Loved being single really loved being coupled for 20 yrs, back to loving being single again. It is the journey!! To pattymcpat and blackguy4you denial can be good at different times in your life! Just have a contingent plan in your life and make friends with a good plastic surgeon  |
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 11:39 PM GMT
Well I can speak for myself as to why I'm single. I'm not comfortable enough in my own skin to go up to someone and just start talking no matter what it's about. Instead, i wait for people to come to me. I struggle to make friends, and I struggle to see myself in the context of boyfriend, partner or whatever because I haven't been in that roll for so long. I do think people put too many expectations on others, maybe because something's lacking somewhere? I don't know. I think you have to really be at peace with yourself, knowing that you're all that you "need" but life is better when it's shared with someone special.
Plus, I only had one boyfriend in my early 20s, and though I've dated a handful of guys. Some longer than others, but for whose ever fault it was things just never went ahead. So being alone is all I've ever really known. Sometimes it sucks, but right now I'm concentrating on education and career. I can worry about settling down when I know where I'm going to be hanging my hat. I don't know if or when someone's going to come along, that's not within my control really. I do know that if I resign myself to never having anyone that it means I've given up. It's the wrong attitude, that's not going to attract the right people. Who wants to try to build a relationship with someone who's apathetic? No one.
|
|
|
Sep 26, 2009 11:59 PM GMT
Roccoe saidtorqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it.
To pattymcpat and blackguy4you denial can be good at different times in your life! Just have a contingent plan in your life and make friends with a good plastic surgeon
no need.... i'm not only good black , i'm excellent black... |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 12:00 AM GMT
bgcat57 saidI considered this also several years ago. I decided on addressing it in a few ways.
Physical
1.) Take care of yourself in a sensible (not over the top) way.
2.) Relax.
3.) Don't watch more than a few hours of TV a day.
Mental
4.) Learn new skills and develop yourself intellectually and culturally.
5.) Decide you're going to do something(s) that you've never done because you thought you were incapable, too old, or unskilled in.
Social
6.) Network with friends.
7.) Be happy being single.
8.) Join local clubs, special interest societies or even an accepting church where you can share a common interest with others, or help the less fortunate in your own community (there's plenty to do in the White Plains area).
So far this has really helped my life and it will continue to. I gathered this from the people I know who are in there 70's to 90's who are active and happy and many of whom live by themselves. Humm, ok, I agree it helps... but I don't think straight guys have to go that extra mile just to don't end their days alone. This list just serves to add up to a pile of guilt and anxiety that is very high already. As if solitude were a punishment for not being the perfect person. |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 1:48 AM GMT
Blackguy4you saidRoccoe saidtorqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it.
To pattymcpat and blackguy4you denial can be good at different times in your life! Just have a contingent plan in your life and make friends with a good plastic surgeon
no need.... i'm not only good black , i'm excellent black... nice to see you back! It is indeed a good man that knows his qualities. You are a good man indeed! but for the rest of us not wanting to crack a mirror I'll make contingent plans  but seriously to italianguy63 who said " It makes me think of when I age what's going to happen to me." You will like we all will die and die as we must. It may be as my first lover who died at 33 in my arms in our bed with me taking care of him his last 4 months. It may be like a close boy friend 31 who died in a hospital in a clinical setting. Like a client who died at 40 on the 9th mile of his daily 10 mile run. Like a traveler on a flight on your honeymoon. Who knows really what is next for any of us. I just treat myself well treat those I have contact with the way I want to be treated and stay open and ready as to what life brings my way. In the last four years I met a college kid that became my workout partner off and on the last two years of his college career. He and his girl friend ended up living with me the seven months before he graduated. He is my buddy, friend that turned into a foster kid at 23. He is truly amazing ( and hot) and we are developing a very special bond and loving relationship. His parents are 41 now and are great. So you think that could make me grandpops??? He will be in my life for the rest of my life and If I am lucky I'll see him marry and have children. I never planned this, saw this as part of my life when I was younger and never considered it. But living in the now has taught me to be open to new adventures and yes maybe a new lover. If I am lucky to get up each day I make it the best now I can open to what comes my way. |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:03 AM GMT
I think of all those people who never drink, or smoke, and have lots of things they won't eat. Then one day the are knocked over by a big red bus, and just as those wheels are about to grind in to them, they must think: "shit I could of gotten drunk last night!"
Old age can be very crule, and lonely. I think with homosexuals putting so much wealth into youth and beauty, we have even less value as we get older, we become invisible sooner too.
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:15 AM GMT
I don't know where the idea that being alone is a pitiful state comes from.
I made my mind up after the end of my last relationship that I was through with all that. It isn't "giving up", as someone above said, it's liberating. I don't worry about such things anymore at all. I don't look for dates, or hookups, or anything. I enjoy what I do, I have my friends, and I'm happy. So who's going to tell me this is incomplete?
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:25 AM GMT
jprichva saidI don't know where the idea that being alone is a pitiful state comes from.
I made my mind up after the end of my last relationship that I was through with all that. It isn't "giving up", as someone above said, it's liberating. I don't worry about such things anymore at all. I don't look for dates, or hookups, or anything. I enjoy what I do, I have my friends, and I'm happy. So who's going to tell me this is incomplete? No one said you were incomplete. I just think you are a real sex kitten at heart! |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 3:41 AM GMT
Roccoe said I just think you are a real sex kitten at heart! Well. not these days. But here's a picture of me when I was young:  |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 5:55 AM GMT
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 6:31 AM GMT
italianguy63 said[...]
It makes me think of when I age, what's goin gto happen to me. Yea I have some friends but they have their own lives. It's scary to think about. Just wondering if you guys ever think about it. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
I intend to live forever through sheer force of will and stubbornness. But if that doesn't work and I do find myself at a point of decline where I'm losing my faculties and my health, Imma go out on the ice floes with a pickaxe and float out to sea. |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 7:22 AM GMT
This is my major concern as I get older. I always say my greatest fear is disability. When I cant take care of myself. Where will I live?. Old folk home? I can prepare myself in term of financial but how about care, love and relationship. I wish I know the answer.
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 7:51 AM GMT
Gay, straight, married, single, it all depends on how you live your life. I know miserable married people and miserable gay people.
I decided years ago I would live my life on my own terms. Am I ever lonely? Sure. Am I ever sad? Sure. But I am mostly always engaged, creative, inquisitive, friendly, and have enough friends to make it all worthwhile.
Still haven't found "the one," and probably never will. I just deal with it and move on.
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 7:54 AM GMT
well, truth is most people hate the idea of being alone - single means - somehow you're still incomplete - searching for that 1 person. * try to be happy being single * take care of yourself, have hobbies, friends .... etc * date around, 1 day the guy will come. |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 8:01 AM GMT
I do worry a bit about being old and single. This is why Im trying to orientate my life so that I have hobbies and interests, good friends from a variety of different areas (the ones I grew up with, my gay ones, my hockey buds, people from work, etc) and try and make sure I am financially independent and that I look after my health as much as possible.
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 1:08 PM GMT
pattymcpat saidYeah...getting old is pretty much my biggest fear...Good thing I'm Asian...we age very slowly :] And we're usually taken care of by family when we do get old. :] |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 1:35 PM GMT
Sedative,
Those are true for straight Asian only. I take care of my mother when my father past away. But who will take care of me when I am old and disable. I am not married, I dont have kids. Unless I force myself to married a women and produce kids, I pretty much gonna be by myself in some old folk home when I am old. I dont expect any of my niece or nephew, let alone a boyfriend will be around to look after me.
Yes, this thing are scary...
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:02 PM GMT
captproton said Still haven't found "the one," and probably never will. I just deal with it and move on. I think the concept of "the One" does much harm. In the end it will leave you lonely and bitter. You will never find "the One" who embodies all your dreams and brings you perfect happiness. You certainly can find a one with normal human strengths and weaknesses, with whom you can build and keep a relationship that will give you back as much as you put into it. |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:03 PM GMT
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:05 PM GMT
TexDef07 saidcaptproton said Still haven't found "the one," and probably never will. I just deal with it and move on.
I think the concept of "the One" does much harm. In the end it will leave you lonely and bitter.
You will never find "the One" who embodies all your dreams and brings you perfect happiness. You certainly can find a one with normal human strengths and weaknesses, with whom you can build and keep a relationship that will give you back as much as you put into it.
that is true except for the fact that many see it as settling if he is not "perfectly what they are looking for" so they opt to be alone instead of settling for the "imperfect" as it were |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:09 PM GMT
Blackguy4you said so they opt to be alone instead of settling for the "imperfect" as it were Which one of us is perfect? |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 2:13 PM GMT
TexDef07 saidBlackguy4you said so they opt to be alone instead of settling for the "imperfect" as it were
Which one of us is perfect? all relative - and i can only speak for myself |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 3:12 PM GMT
Lots of good advice from many guys here Also remember we are primarily water which is reflective and responsive, like a pebble thrown in a still pond - learn this stuff - http://www.life-enthusiast.com/twilight/research_emoto.htmIts all about being good to yourself and those around you - whether u r single or in a relationship ( u could be in a relationship for 20 plus years and that person could die instantly in a car crash ) Love yourself and any mistakes u think u may have made - this is it - this is your life Stop picturing yourself as separate and alone - your life is a part of a larger whole, stay a part of it - love life and all its processes - BE IN IT - BE PRESENT FEAR is not being present to your current life NOW and it's important moments happening NOW False Emotions Appearing Real |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 7:23 PM GMT
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 7:25 PM GMT
bachian said
Humm, ok, I agree it helps... but I don't think straight guys have to go that extra mile just to don't end their days alone. This list just serves to add up to a pile of guilt and anxiety that is very high already. As if solitude were a punishment for not being the perfect person. I never said that solitude was bad or something to be avoided. I simply pointed out and gave examples that an active body, mind and spirit are the best way to live well when your older. I've spent many happy years alone and miserable years in a partnership. I have also spent years being miserable alone and years happy in a partnership. The guilt and anxiety you talk about is something you can grow out of by doing the things I was talking about. Don't do them and you will grow into it. The other thing is that the list I gave was a directional overview, not a comprehensive guide. There are myriad states of happiness and comfort. You have to learn which is the right one for you. You cannot be happy as a single man if believe that the only way to be happy is in a relationship. If you do believe however, that neither being in a relationship or being single is a contingency for your happiness, then your on the right track. |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 7:36 PM GMT
pattymcpat saidYeah...getting old is pretty much my biggest fear...Good thing I'm Asian...we age very slowly :] If you are lucky you will get to grow old. If you are very very lucky you will grow old with style, grace and good sense of self. Yes it is good your are Asian....and age very slowly. I understand so slowly that you will still look 16 at the age of 35 but................poof next day you look like little grasshopper's kung foo master. Just watch out for that poof! |
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 10:44 PM GMT
Patty,
Asian ages slowly. Never heard of it. I start to have grey hair when I was in my twenties. I get wrinkle up just like everybody else. Most Asian look younger (especially in poorer Asian country) because they dont eat as much calories as richer Western men, so they look thinner and smaller.
They do more manual labor, carry heavy stuff and getting more exercise that those folk in the West. But if you are an Asian working infront of you laptop 9 to 5 (like me) and you dont take care of your health, you get old just like everybody else
|
|
|
Sep 27, 2009 10:53 PM GMT
zakariahzol saidPatty,
Asian ages slowly. Never heard of it. I start to have grey hair when I was in my twenties. I get wrinkle up just like everybody else. Most Asian look younger (especially in poorer Asian country) because they dont eat as much calories as richer Western men, so they look thinner and smaller.
They do more manual labor, carry heavy stuff and getting more exercise that those folk in the West. But if you are an Asian working infront of you laptop 9 to 5 (like me) and you dont take care of your health, you get old just like everybody else Yes and black don't crack either. |
|
|
Sep 29, 2009 11:04 PM GMT
bgcat57 saidI never said that solitude was bad or something to be avoided. I simply pointed out and gave examples that an active body, mind and spirit are the best way to live well when your older. I've spent many happy years alone and miserable years in a partnership. I have also spent years being miserable alone and years happy in a partnership. The guilt and anxiety you talk about is something you can grow out of by doing the things I was talking about. Don't do them and you will grow into it.
The other thing is that the list I gave was a directional overview, not a comprehensive guide. There are myriad states of happiness and comfort. You have to learn which is the right one for you.
You cannot be happy as a single man if believe that the only way to be happy is in a relationship. If you do believe however, that neither being in a relationship or being single is a contingency for your happiness, then your on the right track. bgcat, sorry for my misinterpretation. As a perfectionist, if I were to end up alone, I would probably blame myself for not being perfect on that list. "Maybe if I were prettier..." that kind of thought. It seems resignation and happiness go hand in hand... |
|
|
Sep 29, 2009 11:35 PM GMT
bachian saidIt seems resignation and happiness go hand in hand... Definitely not. Happiness is an active state, not one of resignation. It is chosen and pursued. I've known people with rich full lives who were miserable from trivial losses and I've known people who've suffered devastationg losses and they were happy with the lives that they had. It wasn't delusional, it was an active choice. |
|
|
Sep 29, 2009 11:36 PM GMT
bachian said It seems resignation and happiness go hand in hand... "Resignation"isn't the right word. It's more a matter of learning to enjoy playing the cards you hold in your hand, and not sulking because you don't have better ones. |
|
|
Sep 29, 2009 11:38 PM GMT
Pattison saidzakariahzol saidPatty,
Asian ages slowly. Never heard of it. I start to have grey hair when I was in my twenties. I get wrinkle up just like everybody else. Most Asian look younger (especially in poorer Asian country) because they dont eat as much calories as richer Western men, so they look thinner and smaller.
They do more manual labor, carry heavy stuff and getting more exercise that those folk in the West. But if you are an Asian working infront of you laptop 9 to 5 (like me) and you dont take care of your health, you get old just like everybody else
Yes and black don't crack either. i don't know what you are on about - but i can attest to the fact that good black don't crack good is the operative word here. |
|
|
Sep 29, 2009 11:40 PM GMT
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2009 12:49 AM GMT
I agree with some of the posts that having a partner creates a false sense of security. If you want alasting relationshipwith a partner establish bounderies with each be honest with each other and be forgiving. My friends comment all the time how strange it is that my husband and I do not fight. It is because we talk regularly about our feelings and concerns and do our best to listen. Try to plan for your financial future. That might make it easier.
|
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 1:21 AM GMT
TexDef07 said
"Resignation"isn't the right word. It's more a matter of learning to enjoy playing the cards you hold in your hand, and not sulking because you don't have better ones. I got lost in translation... resignação (portuguese) would be better translated as acceptance, while resignation, in my language, would be desistência. So, what I really mean is: it's impossible to be happy without acceptance (of some problems) -- unless you're an omnipotent person. |
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 1:24 AM GMT
I thought we just faded into non-existance at 30.
|
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 1:29 AM GMT
|
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 1:42 AM GMT
brandohsaurus saidI thought we just faded into non-existance at 30. Nope, from 40 on we start growing younger again. That's why you don't see old gay men out and about. |
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 1:57 AM GMT
As semi-newly out (less than 2 years) at age 47, I'm perfectly happy just being able to do what I please, and have little to no interest to getting into a committed relationship after being in a sham marriage for 16+ years. Not that I'm looking for random hookups either. I am content with the fact that it may just be me , if something happens to change that, BONUS!
|
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 2:14 AM GMT
|
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 4:25 AM GMT
This is a great discussion. I'm impressed by what appear to be honest
and truly felt responses. Duluth especially seems to have nailed the
gay attitude as accurately as any I've seen. Truth is, for whatever reason,
whether it is a biological imperative, sociological influences or family
drama and psychological makeup, gay men for the most part only
care about what each other look like and how big their dick is.
Personally, I think it is more about biological imperative than anything
else. Gay men are an intensified and magnified expression of what
MEN are and what MEN want. Men of all types are largely motivated
by sex (and I guess power) and we make our sexual
decisions based almost entirely on
the potential partner's physical appearance. Contrast this with women
who are willing to consider other factors as well (personality, sense of humor,
stability, financial situation, etc.). I don't think this means
that women are "better" than us, or that they don't care about
physical appearance at all, but they seem to consider it as part of the
whole package, not as the sum total of the person.
Look closely at the responses here, and people's profiles (here and
anywhere on the net) and it is obvious
what gay men really care about. This is not an indictment, I am not
saying that this is bad, or that gay men are bad, or that this behavior
is bad and I am
not saying it should be any different. It is just the way we are.
There are approximately 10 million gay men in the US. Less than
1/4 million identify themselves as being in long-term relationships.
That's less than 3%. Look at any gay website, hookup site, even
those that are "real dating" sites. The first and usually the only thing
gay men are looking for is a hot looking guy with a great body and
a big dick or some particular form of sexual encounter.
If we care about anything other than that it is strictly
secondary and will be considered only if you meet our expectations
about physical appearance or sexual inclination. Again, I am not
condemning this, I am only observing.
There is much to be said
for being optimistic, being cheerful, exercising, eating well,
planning, living within your means, cultivating
good friends, a career, etc. But none of that will change the
fact that gay men only care about each
other for sex and not much else. Look at the responses from Roccoe.
He's very handsome, hot, sexy, clearly well educated and financially well-off.
His responses are positive and optimistic, reflecting his status
in the gay world as a hot, desirable man. The relationship he describes
with his 23-year old "foster kid" is clearly sexually motivated, even if
it is not consummated. There is not a word about the kid's personality,
ambitions, intelligence
or anything else, only that he is "hot". I am NOT condemning this,
I think it is great, I am just observing that it is clearly and primarily
sexually motivated. If the kid was fat, pimply and ugly would
Roccoe give a shit about him? Flame me if you like, but this is not condemnation, just observation. Probably that 3% really love each
other as whole human beings, but that leaves the other 97% of us
who relate to each other only sexually. This is the way we are, this
is the way the gay world is. Yes, there are wonderful exceptions, but
by and large we are sexual creatures and the only use we really have
for each other is as sexual partners and objects of desire.
|
|
|
Oct 01, 2009 5:07 AM GMT
nope youre not the only one. Im in the same boat as you with my mother, shes diabetic, has had back hip and neck surgery, and a host of other health issues, I got out the military to come to florida to take care of her since she cant work and seeing her how she is makes me think alot about how she will be and my health in general.
I started working out alot a year ago because I was told I was at risk for diabetes like her, my brother already got it.
A part of me gets sad sometimes because I feel I cant do things with my life like my brothers have(start a family of their own and be independent).
But you know what she's my mother and I love her and wouldnt think twice about having to help her out.
|
|
|
Oct 02, 2009 1:30 AM GMT
urfullofit, I'm not so sure if exaggerated focus on looks is what makes us so picky... Actually, I would be much less picky if I didn't care if some guy has a good character, if he's masculine, if we can manage to maintain a conversation and so on. If all we looked for in a bf were looks, most of us would be paired a long time ago.
|
|
|
Oct 02, 2009 9:19 PM GMT
Rodmramer saidTallGWMvballer saidtorqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA 32 and old?
YES ! 32 is certainly NOT "old" but then again some of the guys in twenties have said the nastiest things about 'old guys" over 30 |
|
|
Oct 02, 2009 10:51 PM GMT
bachian saidurfullofit, I'm not so sure if exaggerated focus on looks is what makes us so picky... Actually, I would be much less picky if I didn't care if some guy has a good character, if he's masculine, if we can manage to maintain a conversation and so on. If all we looked for in a bf were looks, most of us would be paired a long time ago. I think we do want those things, but we want it wrapped in the right package. How many "dating" websites or hookup sites have ads which mention personality or character? |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
urfullofit said
other for sex and not much else. Look at the responses from Roccoe.
He's very handsome, hot, sexy, clearly well educated and financially well-off.
His responses are positive and optimistic, reflecting his status
in the gay world as a hot, desirable man. The relationship he describes
with his 23-year old "foster kid" is clearly sexually motivated, even if
it is not consummated. There is not a word about the kid's personality,
ambitions, intelligence
or anything else, only that he is "hot". I am NOT condemning this,
I think it is great, I am just observing that it is clearly and primarily
sexually motivated. If the kid was fat, pimply and ugly would
Roccoe give a shit about him? Flame me if you like, but this is not condemnation, just observation. Probably that 3% really love each
other as whole human beings, but that leaves the other 97% of us
who relate to each other only sexually. This is the way we are, this
is the way the gay world is. Yes, there are wonderful exceptions, but
by and large we are sexual creatures and the only use we really have
for each other is as sexual partners and objects of desire. I am not going to flame you. Just respond: You are correct sex is primal, our physiology hasn't changed in 50,000 yrs. But our knowledge and emotional make up has. I not sure where you get your numbers, percentages to make the case for your observations. You will have to put your studies on the table before I would agree to any of your conclusion or observations. As far as my motives on my foster kid and how I described him I suggest you go back and read what I said. I am not going to get into linguistics but I don't think you and I define amazing ( and Hot ) the same. Your conclusion we are sexual creatures has no debate with me. But 97% of us that relate to each other only sexually is not something I will agree to. Show me the studies and scientific publications and your statistics. If you are correct then I have no use for you |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 1:49 AM GMT
TallGWMvballer saidRodmramer saidTallGWMvballer saidtorqueinsd saidI'm old. I'm single. I'm loving it.
HAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA 32 and old?
YES ! 32 is certainly NOT "old" but then again some of the guys in twenties have said the nastiest things about 'old guys" over 30 Of course they do. |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 6:54 AM GMT
Roccoe saidurfullofit said
blah blah
I am not going to flame you. Just respond:
You are correct sex is primal, our physiology hasn't changed in 50,000 yrs. But our knowledge and emotional make up has.
I not sure where you get your numbers, percentages to make the case for your observations. You will have to put your studies on the table before I would agree to any of your conclusion or observations.
As far as my motives on my foster kid and how I described him I suggest you go back and read what I said. I am not going to get into linguistics but I don't think you and I define amazing ( and Hot ) the same.
Your conclusion we are sexual creatures has no debate with me. But 97% of us that relate to each other only sexually is not something I will agree to. Show me the studies and scientific publications and your statistics.
If you are correct then I have no use for you Oh, Roccoe, that you must resort to personal insults only proves the point. It does look as though my numbers were wrong, though I used an article on CNN. Here's a US Census Snapshot that probably has more credibility: http://www.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/publications/USCensusSnapshot.pdf In 2005, there were approx. 8.8M glbt people in the US. There were approx 777,000 self-identified same-sex couples. Gay men are approx. 51% of those. That's about 396,000 gay male couples, in a population of about 4.5M gay men (assuming the same 51%). So that's about 8 to 9%, not the 3% I quoted. That's still a really small percentage of couples in a world of singles. It's just the way it is. It's not bad or wrong or any of that BS. Do I wish I was as attractive as you? Of course I do. You have more opportunities for sex and love, friends and social success in the gay world than I could ever have. Sex and love are natural human desires, regardless of what we look like. But let's not kid ourselves that it's any other way or that what we look like isn't uber-important in the gay world. You win Roccoe. That's my point. |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 7:51 AM GMT
So here's my plan... look 16 til i turn 35, age 30 years overnight (my father looks at least 15 years older than he is... then stay that age til i day in a freak collision of super sonic jets over the pacific ocean some time around 2040
|
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 6:10 PM GMT
theantijock said
Good looks only get you laid once. Attitude (ok, and sometimes alcohol) brings us back. But not necessarily just looks.
Sure, I agree. But my point is that you won't even get laid the first time if you don't have the looks. Doesn't matter what kind of attitude you have. If there's not a first time, there's not a second time. So that's why looks are the only thing that matters. It's kind of like the first hurdle in a race. If you don't get past the first hurdle you don't get to the second one. Getting past the first hurdle is no guarantee that you'll get to the second one, but you sure won't get there unless you pass the first one. When was the last time you ignored what a guy looked like and just focussed on his personality? Did you and your bud ever once bring home a guy based on anything but what he looked like or how big his dick was? Did you ever say anything like "That guy is smart, funny, great personality. So what if he weighs 400 pounds? I'm gonna take him home anyway." ? |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 6:28 PM GMT
Great advice bgcat57
I had a guy on here tell me that "gay guys are always so hung up on age"....of course he was in his early thirties....I wasn't hung up on age when I was in my thirties.....but now....
|
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 9:48 PM GMT
theantijock saidurfullofit said...my point is that you won't even get laid the first time if you don't have the looks. Doesn't matter what kind of attitude you have...When was the last time you ignored what a guy looked like and just focussed on his personality? Did you and your bud ever once
bring home a guy based on anything but what he looked like or how big
his dick was? Did you ever say anything like "That guy is smart, funny, great personality. So what if he weighs 400 pounds? I'm gonna take
him home anyway." ?
I don't recall a lot of 400 pounders doing lines in the stalls at 4 am but I have met guys without seeing them first, including my 2nd 10-year relationship and a 6 monther which never amounted to much because even though his intelligence at first intrigued me sight unseen, it turned out that the guy's attitude towards others sucked. The ugliness that turned me off was inside, not on the surface.
But how convenient to think that someone who isn't sexually attracted to you is of no use, validating both your theory that we are only sexually motivated and justifying your dissatisfying sex life. It just seems a little to easy an excuse to avoid accepting responsibility for your own happiness, that God didn't make you gorgeous.
News flash and in line with this thread: it all fades anyway. It never mattered in the first place. Why fixate over what is transient? Because the transient is the now and we all for the most part live in the present. It is disengenuous to pretend that we don't and that we don't fixiate on it. |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 9:59 PM GMT
theantijock saidMadeNUSA saidBecause the transient is the now and we all for the most part live in the present. It is disengenuous to pretend that we don't and that we don't fixiate on it.
So you are only being genuine when you adhere to what makes you unhappy? Good luck with that. This is way too Buddhistic for most of us. That good old transient beauty and pleasure is what gives life its zing. Who cares if it's all some cosmic illusion, it's fun while it lasts and afterwards there will be plenty of time for philosophic reflection. |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 10:09 PM GMT
theantijock said
But how convenient to think that someone who isn't sexually attracted to you is of no use, validating both your theory that we are only sexually motivated and justifying your dissatisfying sex life. It just seems a little to easy an excuse to avoid accepting responsibility for your own happiness, that God didn't make you gorgeous.
Who said I was unhappy? I'm just calling bullshit on the lie that looks don't matter. Even a cursory glance at any gay media will make it obvious. How disingenuous and dishonest of you to throw out empty platitudes thinking that will placate everyone, when you yourself do not follow them. |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 10:14 PM GMT
theantijock saidMadeNUSA saidBecause the transient is the now and we all for the most part live in the present. It is disengenuous to pretend that we don't and that we don't fixiate on it.
So you are only being genuine when you adhere to what makes you unhappy? Good luck with that. It has nothing with being genuine? Genuine what btw? We all as gay men focus first on the outward appearance. To even pretend otherwise, well I don't even know why you would want to do this. Unless it is just for the sake of argument. Your picture showing you bare chested is testament to this very fact. Only if we are interested in the physicality of the other person do we extend the effort to get closer acquainted. Stop pretending this isn't so |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
theantijock said
Dewd, get over yourself. I'm not what I was and I know it. And I'm OK with that. That's life. That's the hand that was dealt. I'm 52 but I'm still getting laid tonight. It isn't as easy but its still fun. I might even find a new boyfriend. Ya never know. That I am not as handsome as I used to be doesn't stop me. That is genuine, well, unless you just want to stay home and sulk. Go for it.
Dewd, I have a dinner date tonight. Enjoy your bar. |
|
|
Oct 03, 2009 11:05 PM GMT
[quote][cite]theantijock said[/cite] urfullofit said
Dewd, I have a dinner date tonight.
Enjoy your bar.
What's that supposed to be, some kind of slight? What a baby you are. No wonder you don't get laid. Your problem is obvious...
Sorry man, no offense intended. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 4:11 PM GMT
I am thankful to have reached the age I have. There is a huge gap of missing guys in my age range, who should still be here but aren't. I am one of the lucky few who made it through. We either age or we die. I choose to age.
As far as aging and remaining single, I don't expect to always be single. If that does end up being the case, who cares? I am having the time of my life being single right now. I do not 'need' a partner to complete me. I am complete within myself.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 4:58 PM GMT
What's the matter with you that you don't want to be with yourself? You say you'd be alone, but really? First of all, most of these people who "have somebody" are not as happy as you think they they are. Secondly, people who have kids, sure the hell aren't as happy as you think they are. Lastly, people who are alone aren't as unhappy as you think they are.
Personally, I've found that I am more pleasant then anyone else I'm likely to meet. And I'm a pleasure to live with : I keep clean, I keep my surroundings clean, I'm a little pensive, which I think is a fancy word for thoughtful, but I keep the brooding to a minimum, I understand the importance of nutrition, being thrifty, being considerate, I am tactful, personable, and practical. Why would I be afraid of spending possibly the rest of my life with a person like that? It's like the saying, "be the man you want to attract," which has a double benefit. First, you will be a pleasure for yourself to live with and second, men will gravitate to such a person and you probably will end up partnered.
Men who end up alone do what you're doing now. They second guess themselves and circumstance. They fear themselves. They get so afraid of being alone that they sabotage their own ability to become partnered by : becoming jaded, by fostering doubt and ire for their own future and any man's ability to enrich that future, by moping around and becoming unappealing, by jumping into relationships and out of relationships for selfish or unrealistic reasons like they aren't perfectly happy and content 100% of the time, and by failing to enjoy and take care of themselves before they can take care of someone else.
What they do is focus on a man making them happy instead of focusing on themselves and a man making each other happy. If they focused on that, they'd take better care of themselves to precipitate health and wellness in their personal life and eventually that dream boat's life and they'd find satisfaction and contentment in their single life so that eventually, partnered life would serve as a welcome addition instead of their LAST HOPE for happiness.
Again, the upside of loving yourself and your life, taking care of yourself, and anticipating to a degree, but not completely counting on partnered life to "save" your life is that you become a person you'd find pleasant to live with even if you never get partnered.
A good test for progress is to periodically evaluate your life and feelings to see if you're close to as happy alone as you think you might be partnered. Because, if you are miserable now, you will be miserable partnered also. "Where ever you go there you are."
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:03 PM GMT
I think that is why you usually see gay guys as they get older as a tightly knitted group of friends that take care of each other. At least from what I have been able to see.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:32 PM GMT
Wow, I didn't realize how many negative people there are on this site, a lot of depressing posts. Still young myself, at 34 years, and not dwelling on what is going to happen to me when I get old.
Enjoy your life now, worrying and stress will only make you age faster.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:37 PM GMT
My grandpa taught me that age is a number and you can find safety & dignity in all areas of life if you know to look for it.
I love getting older...
I love my salt and pepper that is coming in
I love the surety that I'm gaining with each passing year
I love that I'm learning to care less what others are doing and focus on me
I love that I'm learning to be ok by myself and that there are much, much worse things than being single
I make bad decisions sometimes, I have the attention span of a gnat, I am terrible with my money, I double book all the time... but I'm comfortable with me, which is a lot more than I could say at anytime in my 20s. And if that is any indicator of the improved state of living for my 40's & 50's... BRING IT!
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:38 PM GMT
Ryan_Andrew saidI think that is why you usually see gay guys as they get older as a tightly knitted group of friends that take care of each other. At least from what I have been able to see. You are exactly correct. Younger gay men couldn't care less whether older gays live or die. No, that's not true. They'd like us gone from the scene totally, because we disturb their image of young gay perfection. And so, as you say, we older gays hang together, because we know younger gays are about as friendly to us as Republicans are. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:43 PM GMT
Red_Vespa said
You are exactly correct. Younger gay men couldn't care less whether older gays live or die.
No, that's not true. They'd like us gone from the scene totally, because we disturb their image of young gay perfection. Why do you generalize about younger gay men in this manner? |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:49 PM GMT
ActiveAndFit saidPeople who blame everyone but themselves for relationship issues and see overwhelming negativity with potential relationships will never have a successful relationship as long as they are in that mode. Life will be a self-fulfilling prophecy as people run in the other direction when they see you coming.
Everyone loves a happy, kind, loving person except those drowning in their own misery. In other words, rise above your misery and negativity. Indeed. The best way to find a good boyfriend is to learn how to become one first...by being your own boyfriend, and learning to love yourself enough to enjoy being single. Sounds corny, but it's true. MisterT saidWow, I didn't realize how many negative people there are on this site, a lot of depressing posts. Still young myself, at 34 years, and not dwelling on what is going to happen to me when I get old.
Enjoy your life now, worrying and stress will only make you age faster. Exactly. Life is full of surprises...good ones and bad ones. That's part of the fun. Today is my 39th birthday (or as I like to say, I'm 29 with 10 years experience), and I STILL don't think about what's going to happen as I get older. Sure, I need to start putting more money into savings, but I have a lot of debt that needs to get paid off first...it'll happen. But I definitely don't get depressed about being single. I was in a relationship that lasted over 7 years (which ended 4 years ago), so I already know that sometimes things just aren't meant to last "till death do us part." I like being single just as much as I like being in a relationship, so I'll never rush into one just to avoid NOT being single as I get older, lol. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:50 PM GMT
center saidRed_Vespa said
You are exactly correct. Younger gay men couldn't care less whether older gays live or die.
No, that's not true. They'd like us gone from the scene totally, because we disturb their image of young gay perfection.
Why do you generalize about younger gay men in this manner? Based on our experience. And what do you know about it? Your idealized imagination? Visit this topic again when you're 60. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:50 PM GMT
Yes it is scary esp for me cause I have no siblings and few close relatives but its all in Gods hands.I am not really the relationship type because stress and drama are not my thing.Who knows maybe a roommate in my old age!
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 6:55 PM GMT
Red_Vespa said
Based on our experience. Who does the word 'our' include, aside from yourself? Red_Vespa said
And what do you know about it? Your idealized imagination? My experience. Red_Vespa said
Visit this topic again when you're 60. I hope I don't offer sweeping generalizations about young gay men when I am 60 either. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 7:18 PM GMT
center saidRed_Vespa saidBased on our experience. Who does the word 'our' include, aside from yourself?
Red_Vespa saidAnd what do you know about it? Your idealized imagination? My experience.
Red_Vespa saidVisit this topic again when you're 60. I hope I don't offer sweeping generalizations about young gay men when I am 60 either. One of my best friends just passed away the day after my birthday.. he was an 85 year old gay man. We gardened together every weekend, he met my family, he was very, *very* important to me. I knew him for 10 years and met him when I was 26. He was my friend and we cared very much for each other. I sat with him when he was bedridden, I stroked his head and talked to him when he was in a coma, I rubbed lotion on his dry skin and chapped lips. I sat with him when no one else did, not his family, not even his 50 or 60 something friends. If you feel like no one cares for you, maybe it has less to do with your age (or anyone elses) and more to do with the nasty persona you put out there with your gross generalizations about youth. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 7:21 PM GMT
As I get further along in my life I appreciate more of what I've learned along the way. Mistakes? Yep. A few throughout my path. Wish I knew then what I know now. Do I have it all together yet? No - I'm sure there are more lessons to learn. Basically, I believe we make our own happiness. Remember the old "To thine own self be true" and go with it. I try to work hard; be really good to my fellow man; and pack some fun into each day. I almost died once at 17 (gunshot) so I know how fast we can be taken out of this life, and I just try to maintain a good, healthy attitude. Looking good and living well is the best revenge!
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 7:42 PM GMT
EasilyDistracted saidIf you feel like no one cares for you, maybe it has less to do with your age (or anyone elses) and more to do with the nasty persona you put out there with your gross generalizations about youth. Not at all, countless people care for me, and for my partner, as was shown during his current life-threatening illness. They just don't include anyone under 40. And 20-somethings mostly have blond syndrome. I don't expect them to even know what decade this is. I mean, let's have a reality check here, and stop this silly idealizing and excuse making. "I knew a 20-something once who cared about someone other than himself, so all 20-somethings do." Sorry, don't work that way, not the case. Try being a senior citizen, and see how many young-uns give a rat's ass about you. Rather, they laugh at you and mock you for being old, interested only in your money if they're interested at all. But that's OK, I'm not complaining, merely what I expect. The only thing I do complain about is the falsehood that young gays care about anything but themselves. Now that IS the truth, with few exceptions, and trying to pretend it's not true is a lie, plain & simple. I take the world as I find it, coldly & logically. Construct your own world with all the unrealistic sentimental crap you like, it changes nothing. I know the world for what it is, and the people who occupy it. That's why I pass through it unscathed, while others get fleeced. Caveat emptor. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 7:44 PM GMT
This is my biggest fear also.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 7:54 PM GMT
It's my experience that people find out what their relationships are made of when they get to the end of life.
Death is like birth or marriage. It's a benchmark in ones existence... albeit the last one as we know them.
I think to spend someones last days with them is a gift and an honor, just like a birth or wedding. It's an experience that is personal and hard, one of the few times in life where just showing up and looking into someone's eyes with love and holding their hand is enough... I've done it many times, giving someone a shred of peace in their last days is a beautiful gift.
Even single gay men don't die alone if they choose not to... no one I care about will if I have anything to do about it.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 7:59 PM GMT
Money is your only companion when you are single and old... whether you like it or not but this is a fact of life.. if you are financially secure - you can have a secure future even alone.. you can have multiple homes... or retire in a luxury assisted living home anywhere in the world.. where you form your own community and depend on each other. Life is tough when you are single, old and broke - then it can be really awful.. so start saving up... don't throw your money away.. live on half of what you earn and invest the other half... start early in life and you won't have to worry later on.
Sorry but gays dont have too many true friends... you can't depend on friends anyway - not to look after you when ur older.. they all have their own lives to worry about. Another option is adopting a few children but again there is no guarantee those kids will be around to look after u in your old age... best is to plan your future financially and everything will be fine. Also eating healthy, looking after yourself and exercising in moderation is all very important - someone here said - make the gym a priority - nonsense... most people in europe aren't obsessed with the gym.. they just eat normally, stay away from junk food and are physically active.... gym is an added advantage but u can stay physically fit even without being obsessive about it... I think gym obsession is rather wrong and has more negative effects on Gay people mentally than positive in the long run.
Lastly - I'd also like to add that Gay people as a "community" are their own biggest enemies - look around and see how promiscous gay lifestyles are... so many gays desperately justify their open relationships and promiscous lifestyle - rather than admitting it is wrong.... it all catches up with gays in their old age.. while you are young and beautiful - sex is easy and you have plenty of friends.. once u get old and the looks fade away - that's when life as a gay person starts biting. Unfortunately gay rights and gay freedom have led to more promiscuity and lack of integrity in the gay culture - maybe we need a bit more discipline in order to function as a normal society with a normal social structure built in place to look after each other.... rather than just screw each other and pretend to be friends.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 8:09 PM GMT
STOP PITYING YOURSELF. GEEEZZZ. I AM GAY AND I'M GOING TO BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF LIFE IF I DON'T FIND SOMEONE. SAY THAT TO THOSE ORPHANS WHO DIDN'T HAVE PARENTS FROM THE BEGINING. SO GET OVER YOURSELF. WE ALL ARE GOING TO BE ALONE AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER, EVEN FOR STRAIGHT COUPLE WHEN ONE PERSON DIES. KIDS WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU? WHAT'S MORE DEPRESSING IS HAVING KIDS WHO PUT YOU IN A FOSTER HOME AND DON'T EVEN CARE. SO GET OVER YOURSELF AND TRY TO BE HEALTHY AND HAVE A HOBBY. THE END.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 8:09 PM GMT
Jetsetter99 saidLife is tough when you are single, old and broke - then it can be really awful.. so start saving up... don't throw your money away.. live on half of what you earn and invest the other half... start early in life and you won't have to worry later on.
I think gym obsession is rather wrong and has more negative effects on Gay people mentally than positive in the long run.
Lastly - I'd also like to add that Gay people as a "community" are their own biggest enemies - look around and see how promiscous gay lifestyles are... so many gays desperately justify their open relationships and promiscous lifestyle - rather than admitting it is wrong.... Well after his commentary on the United States, I didn't think I'd ever give much credibility to what Jetsetter has to say, but his first paragraph is right on"the money" so to speak. Excellent advice and I agree. The rest I don't agree so much with, other than the gym can be an unhealthy obsession like anything else.. you have to remain balanced... The comment on the "gay lifestyle" thing also has some credibility... overall his comments are much more on target than his views of the US. I agree... SAVE MONEY NOW.. do so prudently! |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 8:50 PM GMT
[quote][cite]HndsmKansan said
Well after his commentary on the United States, I didn't think I'd ever give much credibility to what Jetsetter has to say, but his first paragraph is right on"the money" so to speak. Excellent advice and I agree.
The rest I don't agree so much with, other than the gym can be an unhealthy obsession like anything else.. you have to remain balanced...
The comment on the "gay lifestyle" thing also has some credibility... overall
his comments are much more on target than his views of the US.
I agree... SAVE MONEY NOW.. do so prudently![/quote]
HndsmKansan - I am sorry to say but trust me I love many things about USA.. in fact I am an American myself (technically) - but I left because the US is an extremely dysfunctional society. I've spent equal times in Europe and USA - and yes there are tons of problems in Europe too but as a society European countries have faaaar more values and sincerity than what exists in the US now - Americans are extremely individualistic and self-centered people who think mostly about themselves rather than others. Finding a gay relationship is still easier in Europe than in the US... Europeans can be tough to break into but once you crack them they are your true friends for life - I've met thousands of Americans who are all smiley and friendly and the next week they don't recognize you... it really is that ridiculous. Sorry but I find Americans very fake and plastic and that is the single reason I do not want to live in the US any longer. Don't get me wrong tho - I do not hate the US nor do I dislike American people... I take them for what they are and they are still nice people - but conditioned to be a certain way that I am not and I just fit more into European society. UK has horrible problems too - but i'm willing to deal with all those because at the end of the day I find people here much more genuine and sincere - even if they are nasty at least they don't pretend to be nice... and what you see is what you get here.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 8:59 PM GMT
leothelion saidSTOP PITYING YOURSELF. GEEEZZZ. I AM GAY AND I'M GOING TO BE ALONE FOR THE REST OF LIFE IF I DON'T FIND SOMEONE. SAY THAT TO THOSE ORPHANS WHO DIDN'T HAVE PARENTS FROM THE BEGINING. SO GET OVER YOURSELF. WE ALL ARE GOING TO BE ALONE AT ONE POINT OR ANOTHER, EVEN FOR STRAIGHT COUPLE WHEN ONE PERSON DIES. KIDS WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU? WHAT'S MORE DEPRESSING IS HAVING KIDS WHO PUT YOU IN A FOSTER HOME AND DON'T EVEN CARE. SO GET OVER YOURSELF AND TRY TO BE HEALTHY AND HAVE A HOBBY. THE END. Amen brother Amen Brother. So you're twenty one going on Wise. Glad to see it dude. You maybe another JP in the making! Love it. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 9:14 PM GMT
I being blessed with two long term relationships, one just over 20 years now, and the other 10. But there are no guarantees I will not die alone; as nothing lasts forever, even if we try.
But They also have to live with I will not be around for ever either. They both know, I will never ever turn 70; never. We can have a say in our own deaths too; after all it's nothing more than another appointment we all have to keep.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 9:19 PM GMT
The same thing that happens to single straight people as they age.
|
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 9:38 PM GMT
Red_Vespa saidEasilyDistracted saidIf you feel like no one cares for you, maybe it has less to do with your age (or anyone elses) and more to do with the nasty persona you put out there with your gross generalizations about youth.
Not at all, countless people care for me, and for my partner, as was shown during his current life-threatening illness. They just don't include anyone under 40. And 20-somethings mostly have blond syndrome. I don't expect them to even know what decade this is. I mean, let's have a reality check here, and stop this silly idealizing and excuse making.
"I knew a 20-something once who cared about someone other than himself, so all 20-somethings do." Sorry, don't work that way, not the case. Try being a senior citizen, and see how many young-uns give a rat's ass about you. Rather, they laugh at you and mock you for being old, interested only in your money if they're interested at all.
But that's OK, I'm not complaining, merely what I expect. The only thing I do complain about is the falsehood that young gays care about anything but themselves. Now that IS the truth, with few exceptions, and trying to pretend it's not true is a lie, plain & simple.
I take the world as I find it, coldly & logically. Construct your own world with all the unrealistic sentimental crap you like, it changes nothing. I know the world for what it is, and the people who occupy it. That's why I pass through it unscathed, while others get fleeced. Caveat emptor. Sorry Red I don't share you sentiment at all nor your experience with gay or straight young-uns. You're one to the few old geezers on these posts that can call me a young-un and I think you have me beat by only a few months. So as one geezer to another I really don't see these young-uns as any different then we were. Giving a rats ass is not depended on age. I agree much more with EasilyDistrac.. |
|
|
Nov 05, 2009 11:01 PM GMT
Roccoe saidSorry Red I don't share you sentiment at all nor your experience with gay or straight young-uns. You're one to the few old geezers on these posts that can call me a young-un and I think you have me beat by only a few months.
So as one geezer to another I really don't see these young-uns as any different then we were. Giving a rats ass is not depended on age.
I agree much more with EasilyDistrac.. Well, good, I would prefer to be shown wrong. The alternative to what I proposed is far more desirable. I stated it as much as a challenge to young gays to make me wrong as anything. But am I? Prove it! |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 1:03 AM GMT
Red_Vespa saidRoccoe saidSorry Red I don't share you sentiment at all nor your experience with gay or straight young-uns. You're one to the few old geezers on these posts that can call me a young-un and I think you have me beat by only a few months.
So as one geezer to another I really don't see these young-uns as any different then we were. Giving a rats ass is not depended on age.
I agree much more with EasilyDistrac..
Well, good, I would prefer to be shown wrong. The alternative to what I proposed is far more desirable. I stated it as much as a challenge to young gays to make me wrong as anything. But am I? Prove it! What you are saying is your experiences prove your conclusions and than that can be applied to the behavior of all 40 and under? 30 and under, 20 and under? I said my experiences seem not to be the same as yours with these groups so how could I say your conclusions are valid. We have different points of reference so different conclusions. Without drawing up a Hypotheses and then doing a study with a group that represents these age populations how can we say either you or I are correct. I don't know your experiences and you don't know mine. There are many many guys out there of all age groups that prefer everyone to be their MR Brown (UPS) What can Mr Brown do for you! The ability to extend beyond yourself, to offer, to give doesn't come automatically with age and isn't a domain of age. Most of us, our age group learned it quite young as a way of surviving, we had to.... we lost to many of our friends and partners. We learned the hard way. So what is left of us is a group that is different but how extensive is that I am not sure. I have taught school, coached sports, worked out at gyms where I help train 20 somethings and it has been very enjoyable. I have mentor college age guys that have been great heart warming experiences with some being very special ie my foster son. a straight kid. I can share but proving to you that you are wrong based on your experience isn't something I can do! Sorry! |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 1:30 AM GMT
Roccoe said...I have taught school, coached sports, worked out at gyms where I help train 20 somethings and it has been very enjoyable. I have mentor college age guys that have been great heart warming experiences with some being very special ie my foster son. a straight kid.
I can share but proving to you that you are wrong based on your experience isn't something I can do! Sorry! I've done all of the above, except have a foster son, just 2 natural sons. None of that alters my observation that most young GAY men are hostile to older gays. Let's stay focused on what I proposed, and to which you are presumably replying. The majority of younger gays despise older gays, unless they can get into our pockets. That's been my personal experience, and what I've seen with others. It doesn't surprise or disturb me personally, merely human nature at work. And no loss to me, since immaturity is not high on my list of interests. Is my judgment tinged with jealousy for these kids? You bet! But I also know I can't turn back the clock, and be like them again. So that when one of them approaches me, as sometimes happens, believe it or not, I know what mercenary motives are behind it. They mock me behind my back, and sweet-talk me to my face, looking for a hand-out. Like the word doesn't get back to me. There used to be a saying in the 1960s: "Trust no one over 30." But I've found a better one for the gay world: "Trust no one under 40." |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 1:39 AM GMT
I just ended my 10.5yr relationship and I am caring for my terminally ill mom right now. Hopefully she will make it to Christmas. After she is gone, I have 1 cousin left on my mom's side of the family. My dad is still alive, but we aren't as close and his side of the family is very small as well.
A lot of people can still feel very fortunate that they can think about or worry about what growing old alone is going to feel like. It's a luxury, in a sense, that I don't have. At the ripe old age of 38, I will be officially alone. I guess, in a way, being an only child will come in handy. I'm not worried, though. I have great friends. I plan to look for international jobs and just live life to the fullest until I stumble across the man I'm meant to be with. Life will just have to be what I make it, alone or with someone. One day at a time.
|
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 2:15 AM GMT
Red_Vespa saidRoccoe said...I have taught school, coached sports, worked out at gyms where I help train 20 somethings and it has been very enjoyable. I have mentor college age guys that have been great heart warming experiences with some being very special ie my foster son. a straight kid.
I can share but proving to you that you are wrong based on your experience isn't something I can do! Sorry!
I've done all of the above, except have a foster son, just 2 natural sons. None of that alters my observation that most young GAY men are hostile to older gays. Let's stay focused on what I proposed, and to which you are presumably replying.
The majority of younger gays despise older gays, unless they can get into our pockets. That's been my personal experience, and what I've seen with others. It doesn't surprise or disturb me personally, merely human nature at work. And no loss to me, since immaturity is not high on my list of interests.
Is my judgment tinged with jealousy for these kids? You bet! But I also know I can't turn back the clock, and be like them again. So that when one of them approaches me, as sometimes happens, believe it or not, I know what mercenary motives are behind it.
They mock me behind my back, and sweet-talk me to my face, looking for a hand-out. Like the word doesn't get back to me. There used to be a saying in the 1960s: "Trust no one over 30." But I've found a better one for the gay world: "Trust no one under 40." Trying to stay focused here. Your observations are base on your experiences correct? Your experience as how these young gay men treat you justifies your conclusion that they all treat older gay men badly. So you extrapolated on how you are treated that all young gay men do the same to every old gay man. Sorry I don't have those experience. Granted I have been single only he last 4 yrs and didn't get out the previous 20 yrs to be hit on. To be honest with you my experience with 20 to 40 yr old gay men has been flattering. In the course of conversing with them on occasion they usually make a play for me. They want me to get into their pants and I am flattered. I don't because as you I can't turn back the clock. That is not where my interest lie. I have never gotten a negative feed back just disappointment. Is your pool of 20 somethings much large than mine, could be? I haven't had those bad experience to make me conclude the majority or most of young gay men are hostile to us geezers. sorry joke! Those are terms you used and my experience doesn't correlate to yours. I suppose we could ask another old geezer wannabe maybe jbrichva as to his conclusions. I think I read in one post or another he has been hit on by 20 somethings. I think he is older than what he says so his feed back may be helpful. |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 2:22 AM GMT
kevinap saidI just ended my 10.5yr relationship and I am caring for my terminally ill mom right now. Hopefully she will make it to Christmas. After she is gone, I have 1 cousin left on my mom's side of the family. My dad is still alive, but we aren't as close and his side of the family is very small as well.
A lot of people can still feel very fortunate that they can think about or worry about what growing old alone is going to feel like. It's a luxury, in a sense, that I don't have. At the ripe old age of 38, I will be officially alone. I guess, in a way, being an only child will come in handy. I'm not worried, though. I have great friends. I plan to look for international jobs and just live life to the fullest until I stumble across the man I'm meant to be with. Life will just have to be what I make it, alone or with someone. One day at a time. You have my sympathy and admiration. Learning to live in the now one day at a time is worth effort. |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 3:09 AM GMT
Roccoe said...So you extrapolated on how you are treated that all young gay men do the same to every old gay man. Your assumption is incorrect. Yes, I have been mocked by younger gay men. But I've seen them mock other older gay men, too. And never have I seen a young gay man be anything but rude, disrespectful, insulting and mean to older gay men in person, whether to myself or to others, either directly or behind their backs. And right here on RJ, threads dedicated to "old creepers" that 20-somethings imagine are stalking them, as if I or most of my peers give a flying fuck for kids, serve to prove my contention. Though their fears are more self-flattery than factual, this is what they think, or perhaps secretly hope. I extrapolate nothing. Rather, I examine what I see, and draw conclusions accordingly. On the one hand we're classified as old creepers, but on the other hand we're not being bad-mouthed at all. HUH??? |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 3:26 AM GMT
Sorry to disappoint ya, Rocco, my age and everything else about me in my profile is entirely accurate.
|
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 3:28 AM GMT
Red:
I'm sorry that this has been your experience. I have gay friends who are 25, 30, 33, and up. I don't believe any of them has ever bad-mouthed me to my face or anywhere else.
|
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 3:44 AM GMT
jprichva saidRed:
I'm sorry that this has been your experience. I have gay friends who are 25, 30, 33, and up. I don't believe any of them has ever bad-mouthed me to my face or anywhere else. Oh, believe me they do hate us, even if they disguise it from you. We're unpleasant reminders of what they are doomed to become someday themselves, if they should be lucky enough to live so long. They treat us like our age is a contagious plague, something they might catch if they have contact with us. But that's OK, as I said before, because I'd rather have no contact with them, either, lest my brain turn to mush, listening to their infantile, uninformed, ignorant prattle. They can get back to me when they turn 40, at which point at least a few of them will have evolved some brains, and possibly even some manners. |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 3:46 AM GMT
Red_Vespa saidRoccoe said...So you extrapolated on how you are treated that all young gay men do the same to every old gay man.
Your assumption is incorrect. Yes, I have been mocked by younger gay men. But I've seen them mock other older gay men, too. And never have I seen a young gay man be anything but rude, disrespectful, insulting and mean to older gay men in person, whether to myself or to others, either directly or behind their backs.
And right here on RJ, threads dedicated to "old creepers" that 20-somethings imagine are stalking them, as if I or most of my peers give a flying fuck for kids, serve to prove my contention. Though their fears are more self-flattery than factual, this is what they think, or perhaps secretly hope.
I extrapolate nothing. Rather, I examine what I see, and draw conclusions accordingly. On the one hand we're classified as old creepers, but on the other hand we're not being bad-mouthed at all. HUH??? People are people ....but generally i find young gay guys even sweeter than the the general population... |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 3:49 AM GMT
Alpha13 saidPeople are people ....but generally i find young gay guys even sweeter than the the general population... General population where? San Quentin? |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 4:19 AM GMT
jprichva saidSorry to disappoint ya, Rocco, my age and everything else about me in my profile is entirely accurate. Hey I was trying to give you some creditability. Yeah right JP i saw the telltale signs of a photoshop job.  BTW F**k dude I need some help here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You have to make up your mind either young-un or old geezer you can't ride the fence forever |
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 4:21 AM GMT
Wow, It's amazing you posted this because I've been thinking about the same thing. Of course we need to exercise, eat right, and buy insurance.
I'm very lucky to have a son, from my valiant youthful attempts at being straight, So I do have someone who will be there at the end. (at least that's my hope)
Still, now that I'm 50, I've begun to realize no matter how well I take care of myself, (and I have made a living doing just that) the bottom line is THINGS FALL APART !!!!!! I don't mind the dying as much as the falling apart along the way.
Yes, I can exercise, watch my diet follow my spiritual path and do what I can to enrich my life, yet each day is a bit closer to the end and to a day when I look in the mirror and really don't like what I see.
The gay culture doesn't help. It's even more obsessed with youth and beauty than the mainstream. I was talking to a friend about this today, and I really think the answer has to be to stop focusing so much on the image in the mirror and more on the world around you.
I keep coming back to this question: What is the most important thing I can do with the time I have left? I'm working on that, and the answer changes from day to day, but in general it means doing something to make the world a better place for those I come in contact with. Essentially trying to leave more than I take.
|
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 4:34 AM GMT
RichmondTrainer saidWow, It's amazing you posted this because I've been thinking about the same thing. Of course we need to exercise, eat right, and buy insurance.
I'm very lucky to have a son, from my valiant youthful attempts at being straight, So I do have someone who will be there at the end. (at least that's my hope)
Still, now that I'm 50, I've begun to realize no matter how well I take care of myself, (and I have made a living doing just that) the bottom line is THINGS FALL APART !!!!!! I don't mind the dying as much as the falling apart along the way.
Yes, I can exercise, watch my diet follow my spiritual path and do what I can to enrich my life, yet each day is a bit closer to the end and to a day when I look in the mirror and really don't like what I see.
The gay culture doesn't help. It's even more obsessed with youth and beauty than the mainstream. I was talking to a friend about this today, and I really think the answer has to be to stop focusing so much on the image in the mirror and more on the world around you.
I keep coming back to this question: What is the most important thing I can do with the time I have left? I'm working on that, and the answer changes from day to day, but in general it means doing something to make the world a better place for those I come in contact with. Essentially trying to leave more than I take.
Wow we need more men like you in this world. Gays are too obsessed with youth. |
|
|
|
|
Nov 06, 2009 5:01 AM GMT
Richmond Trainer,
From your training videos I've watched in your profile, I'd say you are doing a fine job of giving something valuable to our world.
I think you'll do a great job of inspiring fitness 30 or more years from now too.
Live long and keep teaching.
|
