Federal Reserve Transparency Act proposal Friday, October 1st 2009

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    Sep 29, 2009 5:03 AM GMT
    So, understanding there's a good i'll get hazed for doing this, i thought it should be talked about anyway.


    The House Financial Services Committee will vote on the Federal Reserve Transparency Act:

    "To amend title 31, United States Code, to reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited by the Comptroller General of the United States and the manner in which such audits are reported, and for other purposes.

    The bill also and calls for a full Government Accountability Office audit of the central bank to be completed before the end of 2010 and submitted to Congress for review."


    Keeping in mind that the same privately owned bank that was given the authority in 1913 to print and distribute US currency was never "legally" allowed to be audited since its introduction in 1913. If your feeling chipper about the idea and think its a good one, contact your reps and help get this thing passed. Remember, its talked about this friday.



    List of all senators & contact information:
    http://senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
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    Sep 29, 2009 2:03 PM GMT
    meh... i dont like that at all. for all we know that could fuck us more then do good. What makes you think china wont be looking at this and figure how to manipulate their system as we do ours? hell no. Im with the closed door policy on this one.
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    Sep 29, 2009 7:45 PM GMT
    Hey Jude !!!! I think this is one of the most important subjects we could discuss, and thank you for bringing it up !!! Those who may want to cover up something from the public will of course promote the idea that what the Fed does should stay with the Fed. Well thank you no !!! The Fed is run by men, who just like in every other agency of our government should have the 'sunshine' on their actions for the public to be able to know how their decision affect us. Who the hell do they think they are that they don't have to answer to Audits of their practices like any other business does in America? What other agency or business isn't audited? Its rediculous that this has gone this long without becoming an issue. I hope this passes !!!
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    Sep 29, 2009 9:08 PM GMT
    Ryan_Andrew saidmeh... i dont like that at all. for all we know that could fuck us more then do good. What makes you think china wont be looking at this and figure how to manipulate their system as we do ours? hell no. Im with the closed door policy on this one.


    are you kidding me man? You'd rather let a private bank that dictates the very money we use be above auditing, therefore above the law? And your reasoning is that you don't want china to see how this private bank works?

    Dude, the private bank your protecting is funded by families just like any other private bank (Rockefeller's, Rothschilds, ect.) The same people who back most governments (The UK, Italy, China, ect.) using your lovely private baking system, so keeping that in mind, what exactly would this auditing be telling the "Chinese" that they don't already know?

    China is a communist country brother, and part of the Communist Manifesto is the construct of a private bank which control cash production and overall wealth.

    So, understanding those points, do you honestly believe CHINA is remotely concerned....
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    Sep 30, 2009 2:42 PM GMT
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew saidmeh... i dont like that at all. for all we know that could fuck us more then do good. What makes you think china wont be looking at this and figure how to manipulate their system as we do ours? hell no. Im with the closed door policy on this one.


    are you kidding me man? You'd rather let a private bank that dictates the very money we use be above auditing, therefore above the law? And your reasoning is that you don't want china to see how this private bank works?

    Dude, the private bank your protecting is funded by families just like any other private bank (Rockefeller's, Rothschilds, ect.) The same people who back most governments (The UK, Italy, China, ect.) using your lovely private baking system, so keeping that in mind, what exactly would this auditing be telling the "Chinese" that they don't already know?

    China is a communist country brother, and part of the Communist Manifesto is the construct of a private bank which control cash production and overall wealth.

    So, understanding those points, do you honestly believe CHINA is remotely concerned....


    When you have the the China's Head of State going out on to world and saying oh yeah... I dont think we should trust the and use the US Dollar as the means for the worlds majority currency... perhaps we should look to something else. That concerns me. These "private banks" do have audits both internal and external... Im not quite sure if you knew that or not. Thoes are then turned over to the Federal Reserve to be reviewed and based on those reports the bank could possible end up on the Fed's bank watch list... aka the list that contains the names of banks at risk of failing. My mother was responsible for managing the books for the largest regional bank in Texas which was recently aquired by BBVA (spain's second largest bank). I grew up knowing the insides and out of bank and how many protections are in place to protect our money. The banks that took these risky acts that cause this whole financial mess were not your run of the mill everyday consumer banks they were investment banks that took advantage of a change in the law that actually occured under the Clinton Admin. (Sorry Bill, I love ya but this has to be said.) that allowed for credit to be used once again for investment. That was outlawed after the great drepssion. Quick example, I remember knowing an asshat that I could not stand work for Primerica. He would talk about all these great ways to make money in the market today. He would ask for thousands of dollars so he could get people to invest. His advice, take out a home-equity loan! Use that money to put in to the market and make money for yourself. Most people were already over extended so here come the adujustable rate loans. This whole mess had to do with changes made to the law to get more people in to homes and live the american dream but allowed too many people to live past their own real maens. It had nothing to do with oversight failure on the Federal Reserves part. The reason the Fed got involed was it is the job of the Fed to step in and take over these failing finacial companies to prevent them from cause a cascading effect on the rest of the financial markets and protect the investors/consumers as much as possible. What happened was with people palying with the books. This happened because of changes and loopholes in the law and really really good investors coming to terms and look at the law and finding a new way to take advantage of the law and a new market. I believe its much more important to protect the US as a financial power house (while yes we own much of the world's debt) still if we kept more of our own money at home and kept the cash flowing we wouldnt have had many of these things happen. Maybe you dont know much about the chinese economy and how it works... doesnt hold quite to Marx as you might think. Its more of a hybrid system and its quite ingenious. The problem is that the have found ways to manipulate the value of their currency to off set debt and increase its vaule even when there is nothing there backing it. Our Trade Debt with China is a very very good exmple of this. Might want to catch Lou Dobbs when he is talking about this very subject. One thing that my grandfather always talked about when talking about communist is that the bring a country down first by attacking the financial sectors first and that makes a country fall. Funny, how that is exactly what happened by the terrorist on 9-11. Its not just communist to worry about or for that matter terrorist but perhaps some other unknown foe that we have yet to contemplate.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 30, 2009 2:43 PM GMT
    Just for the record, the FED is audited all the time.
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    Sep 30, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidJust for the record, the FED is audited all the time.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>By this are you saying that the Fed headquarters building and staff set up a room to facilitate a group of Auditors like any other business does once a year? or are you saying that various branches or programs are individually audited? If the main office has been audited every year why would congress be battling over doing it now? explain yourself !!! LOL !!!
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    Sep 30, 2009 3:50 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidJust for the record, the FED is audited all the time.


    yea ide actually like some clarification, if what your saying is true, then the act in question would be a farce, so your going to have to back that up bud.

    Regardless, the auditing the bill calls for is just one step towards our independence from private banking as a country and towards the actual ideals of a republic
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    Sep 30, 2009 3:58 PM GMT
    HeyJude said
    MunchingZombie saidJust for the record, the FED is audited all the time.


    yea ide actually like some clarification, if what your saying is true, then the act in question would be a farce, so your going to have to back that up bud.

    Regardless, the auditing the bill calls for is just one step towards our independence from private banking as a country and towards the actual ideals of a republic



    How the Federal Reserve is Audited
    http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed35.html

    End of Thread.

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    Sep 30, 2009 4:05 PM GMT
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    MunchingZombie saidJust for the record, the FED is audited all the time.


    yea ide actually like some clarification, if what your saying is true, then the act in question would be a farce, so your going to have to back that up bud.

    Regardless, the auditing the bill calls for is just one step towards our independence from private banking as a country and towards the actual ideals of a republic



    How the Federal Reserve is Audited
    http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed35.html

    End of Thread.



    lol i love how that's taken from the federal reserve homepage

    Internal audits don't count, shit even Enron when to Aurthur Anderson, don't be so naive man.

    anyway, maybe you don't quiet understand what the objective is here, so i'll use a quote from Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison to help explain why we need this bill passed:

    "I am very concerned by the lack of transparency and disclosure of the many newly created Federal Reserve System programs.

    Many legislative proposals have been recently introduced to improve the transparency of the Federal Reserve System. One such proposal is S. 604, the Federal Reserve Sunshine Act of 2009, which was introduced by Senator Bernard Sanders (I-VT) on March 16, 2009. This bill would reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited and the manner in which such audits are reported."

    So you see Ryan_Andrew, it isn't simply the fact of the audit, its the manner and right of the congress to view the audited information.

  • bottomline

    Posts: 331

    Sep 30, 2009 4:18 PM GMT
    By the looks of it this is a good thing, as long as it really turns out to be what it is on the surface. I had been surprised as to why this hasn't been done earlier and am wondering why is it happening now?

    Earlier this year thanks to the president we had all that attention to putting light on what is really going on with all those American big shots and their Swiss accounts. And now this... I am going to keep an eye on it.
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    Sep 30, 2009 4:26 PM GMT
    I was just saying that the FED is externally audited. It isn't like there is absolutely no transparency here. Honestly, I do not know a lot about monetary policy so I really can't say if this is a good piece of legislation or not. I do know that it has been changed considerably from Paul's original piece and so there is less micromanaging of FED policy. Which is grand.
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    Sep 30, 2009 4:43 PM GMT
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    MunchingZombie saidJust for the record, the FED is audited all the time.


    yea ide actually like some clarification, if what your saying is true, then the act in question would be a farce, so your going to have to back that up bud.

    Regardless, the auditing the bill calls for is just one step towards our independence from private banking as a country and towards the actual ideals of a republic



    How the Federal Reserve is Audited
    http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed35.html

    End of Thread.



    lol i love how that's taken from the federal reserve homepage

    Internal audits don't count, shit even Enron when to Aurthur Anderson, don't be so naive man.

    anyway, maybe you don't quiet understand what the objective is here, so i'll use a quote from Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison to help explain why we need this bill passed:

    "I am very concerned by the lack of transparency and disclosure of the many newly created Federal Reserve System programs.

    Many legislative proposals have been recently introduced to improve the transparency of the Federal Reserve System. One such proposal is S. 604, the Federal Reserve Sunshine Act of 2009, which was introduced by Senator Bernard Sanders (I-VT) on March 16, 2009. This bill would reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited and the manner in which such audits are reported."

    So you see Ryan_Andrew, it isn't simply the fact of the audit, its the manner and right of the congress to view the audited information.



    GAO... Government Accountability Office... if you want to get any of thoes reports im pretty sure congress could easily find that information there and keep it out out of public eye. I dont mind oversight but I do mind as to how exposed and vaulnerable we make ourselves espically with something like our banking system. Its a matter of national security.

    As for "Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison" and her quote. (Looks over at George Lopez whom I will in away be quoting) I'm going to take the liberty and oppertunity to say FUCK THAT PUTA! As a Latino and Texan... FUCK HER! That line coming from someone with more skeletons in there closet and btw, im enjoying watching them come out... yeah right... and then she wants to make a run for texas govenor... AYE PUR! I have a news for you Kay.... heard of montezuma revenge? Get ready for Sotomayor's Revenge! She will never win office again and Cornyn... you're next puto!
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    Sep 30, 2009 4:47 PM GMT
    First off, @ Hey Jude... very impressed by a 21 yr old guy bringing up pending legislation especially one of this technical nature - that's sexy ;)

    Now it's true the Fed is audited rigorously though it is not privately funded or controlled as you said per se which suggests secrecy or shadyness. It is not a good thing that every aspect of financial operations in our country be completely governmental run or controlled - thus the distinction of "public" (governmental) vs. "private" (nongovernmental) sectors.

    The Federal reserve district banks are owned by the member banks within their respective districts. Those owners (banks themselves) "fund" the system as they are benefactors of the system and need them in order to run their operations. So those member banks then may be "public" (stock is owned by people or institutions, and trades on an organized stock exchange) or "private" (stock does not trade publicly, its investors bought the stock from the bank and not on an exchange).

    Back to the bill. Idk what the proposal seeks to change about the auditing structure and reporting regiment, but that's the key word - change - re-read the summary you published which specifically says "amend" not "commence"... so while the Fed banks are under defined auditing standards and procedures, it still is important to understand what congress feels needs fixing. With the record failures of banks due to the "mortgage crisis", Congress may be feeling the current process did nothing to prevent or detect the meltdown and is under the gun to continue to act. And the current administration is bumbling with real aid and change to slow foreclosures and create jobs. Now idk why congress would try to help bring that about with tinkering with the audit process as opposed to rulemaking - is imposing tighter restrictions on lending for example. Time will tell...

    So for peeps interested, I'd go to the federal register or wherever else you can read the details of what is proposed to be changed and act accordingly.
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    Sep 30, 2009 5:20 PM GMT
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    MunchingZombie saidJust for the record, the FED is audited all the time.


    yea ide actually like some clarification, if what your saying is true, then the act in question would be a farce, so your going to have to back that up bud.

    Regardless, the auditing the bill calls for is just one step towards our independence from private banking as a country and towards the actual ideals of a republic



    How the Federal Reserve is Audited
    http://www.newyorkfed.org/aboutthefed/fedpoint/fed35.html

    End of Thread.



    lol i love how that's taken from the federal reserve homepage

    Internal audits don't count, shit even Enron when to Aurthur Anderson, don't be so naive man.

    anyway, maybe you don't quiet understand what the objective is here, so i'll use a quote from Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison to help explain why we need this bill passed:

    "I am very concerned by the lack of transparency and disclosure of the many newly created Federal Reserve System programs.

    Many legislative proposals have been recently introduced to improve the transparency of the Federal Reserve System. One such proposal is S. 604, the Federal Reserve Sunshine Act of 2009, which was introduced by Senator Bernard Sanders (I-VT) on March 16, 2009. This bill would reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited and the manner in which such audits are reported."

    So you see Ryan_Andrew, it isn't simply the fact of the audit, its the manner and right of the congress to view the audited information.



    GAO... Government Accountability Office... if you want to get any of thoes reports im pretty sure congress could easily find that information there and keep it out out of public eye. I dont mind oversight but I do mind as to how exposed and vaulnerable we make ourselves espically with something like our banking system. Its a matter of national security.

    As for "Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison" and her quote. (Looks over at George Lopez whom I will in away be quoting) I'm going to take the liberty and oppertunity to say FUCK THAT PUTA! As a Latino and Texan... FUCK HER! That line coming from someone with more skeletons in there closet and btw, im enjoying watching them come out... yeah right... and then she wants to make a run for texas govenor... AYE PUR! I have a news for you Kay.... heard of montezuma revenge? Get ready for Sotomayor's Revenge! She will never win office again and Cornyn... you're next puto!


    ahhhh i knew it would happen, you didn't really come to the table with any valid points so you had to resort to the insecurity of name calling, i mean it had to happen sometime right? Two opposing sides claiming the other is wrong?

    To be honest i'm glad i didn't start first, i suppose i am growing up

    either way, i'm glad your thought was hung with a political noose, kudos ;)
  • jrs1

    Posts: 4388

    Sep 30, 2009 5:47 PM GMT
    HeyJude saidSo, understanding there's a good i'll get hazed for doing this, i thought it should be talked about anyway.


    The House Financial Services Committee will vote on the Federal Reserve Transparency Act:

    "To amend title 31, United States Code, to reform the manner in which the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System is audited by the Comptroller General of the United States and the manner in which such audits are reported, and for other purposes.

    The bill also and calls for a full Government Accountability Office audit of the central bank to be completed before the end of 2010 and submitted to Congress for review."


    Keeping in mind that the same privately owned bank that was given the authority in 1913 to print and distribute US currency was never "legally" allowed to be audited since its introduction in 1913. If your feeling chipper about the idea and think its a good one, contact your reps and help get this thing passed. Remember, its talked about this friday.



    List of all senators & contact information:
    http://senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm


    Sam31488 saidNo one is above the law.


    someone say fed. reserve? someone say bank note? mmm fiscal policy ...

    makes me wanna:



    this was not to discount the severity of the current situation, instead such a posting is in hopes to keep the thread on light footing. we all have opinions. let's just try to share them respectfully. well done, jude.
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    Sep 30, 2009 6:08 PM GMT
    Folks, I ran a housing Authority for many years and several other Federal, State, and non profit programs as director. Each separate program was audited each and every year independently of any government or state group and a report was always given to my board, and to each and every funding agency I oversaw. At any time anyone on my board, the county board, any government agency or anyone who walked through the doors could ask for and see exactly where each and every dollar went. No such thing as in house auditing would have even remotely been considered legitimate. So if the FED is properly Audited, there would be no such problem as Congress being in the dark as to where any monies may have gone. If such transparency is necessary for the many government funded agencies such as I Directed, then it is many times more necessary that the biggest money handling agency at the top of our Government have transparency through an audit that can easily result in knowing where the FED Dollars have gone. There should be no confusion here at all, the facts and figures should be obtainable easily by our governing bodies such as congress and the senate. Anything less is irresponsible to say the very least.
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    Sep 30, 2009 6:19 PM GMT
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said


    As for "Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison" and her quote. (Looks over at George Lopez whom I will in away be quoting) I'm going to take the liberty and oppertunity to say FUCK THAT PUTA! As a Latino and Texan... FUCK HER! That line coming from someone with more skeletons in there closet and btw, im enjoying watching them come out... yeah right... and then she wants to make a run for texas govenor... AYE PUR! I have a news for you Kay.... heard of montezuma revenge? Get ready for Sotomayor's Revenge! She will never win office again and Cornyn... you're next puto!


    ahhhh i knew it would happen, you didn't really come to the table with any valid points so you had to resort to the insecurity of name calling, i mean it had to happen sometime right? Two opposing sides claiming the other is wrong?

    To be honest i'm glad i didn't start first, i suppose i am growing up

    either way, i'm glad your thought was hung with a political noose, kudos ;)


    Dude... you really gotta look at Kay's background and yeah no way in hell shes gonna win. Id much rather have perry (oh god) than Kay any day. I didnt attack or name call you and I actually brought up very valid points. Im mearly stating something about a very stupid republican senator and im sorry but I have no support for anything she considers as being concerned. You never even mentinoed or commented about the GAO idea so where is it? gonna come back with it or going to keep going on Kay? Id rather stick to the national security issues bro.
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    Sep 30, 2009 6:32 PM GMT
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said
    Ryan_Andrew said
    HeyJude said


    As for "Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison" and her quote. (Looks over at George Lopez whom I will in away be quoting) I'm going to take the liberty and oppertunity to say FUCK THAT PUTA! As a Latino and Texan... FUCK HER! That line coming from someone with more skeletons in there closet and btw, im enjoying watching them come out... yeah right... and then she wants to make a run for texas govenor... AYE PUR! I have a news for you Kay.... heard of montezuma revenge? Get ready for Sotomayor's Revenge! She will never win office again and Cornyn... you're next puto!


    ahhhh i knew it would happen, you didn't really come to the table with any valid points so you had to resort to the insecurity of name calling, i mean it had to happen sometime right? Two opposing sides claiming the other is wrong?

    To be honest i'm glad i didn't start first, i suppose i am growing up

    either way, i'm glad your thought was hung with a political noose, kudos ;)


    Dude... you really gotta look at Kay's background and yeah no way in hell shes gonna win. Id much rather have perry (oh god) than Kay any day. I didnt attack or name call you and I actually brought up very valid points. Im mearly stating something about a very stupid republican senator and im sorry but I have no support for anything she considers as being concerned. You never even mentinoed or commented about the GAO idea so where is it? gonna come back with it or going to keep going on Kay? Id rather stick to the national security issues bro.


    National Security Issues? lol are you kidding me? Do you read what you write or just type it out and move on?

    Your last statement, in which you even quoted in your most recent response focuses on calling Kay Bailey Hutchison a "puta," which if you have ever been apart of the US public school system, know that "puta" is spanish for prositute or whore.

    I'm simply commenting that your view has little validity at best and you reverted to calling someone(not particularly me) names.

    To suffice your need for my rebuttal towards your GAO comment, the topic were discussing is about a bill that will call for increased transparency through an audit conducted and reviewed by congress.The fact of the matter is that congress (and for that matter, anyone) is unable to see what the Fed is doing with the money, were is it coming from and where is it going. So the role of the GAO is a mute point considering they are CLEARLY not performing to the needs of the people and their representatives.

    All i'm asking for is intelligent debate, and frankly, it isn't coming from you.
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    Sep 30, 2009 7:05 PM GMT
    ok, first off if you knew slang you would know it means "BITCH!" *GOOGLE GOOGLE! ADM!* BTW, I have been apart of the US public school system. Im a full out born and breed american citizen, and btw, so are my parents. MEXICO IS QUITE FOREGIN TO ME.... I just like how George Lopez put it on his last HBO special that was Live from the AT&T Center in my hometown of San Antonio, TX... that btw was SOLD-OUT!

    I consider it a natioal security issue because of just how much information is going to exposed. If any of it keeps inline with all that Obama is doing.. its going to be a free for all info and that is dangerous, IMHO. You said I have no points. Could you explain to me how us making the information public for people to access is not threating our national security? Maybe you havent seen just how fridgle our economy is?

    Maybe its just because I had a very good economics professor or the fact that Ive lived on CNN since my eyes were opened that I know how and where the money in the system comes from, how it moves, where it goes... its pretty easy to figure it when you read any section as to how our system works. It has systems and layers of control and audit. My assumption would be why congress cant view any of thoes documents is because of the same reason why a fed chairmen is up for selection every 6yrs and not part of a presidential cabinet.... Political. Everything that you are suggesting and speaking about has been already debated at the creation of the Fed after the Great Depression. Its his history books, economics books, and basicly anything that any real banker (worth their salt) would be able to explain to anyone. Maybe its just me... maybe because of my background with family thats all and up in many different parts of the financial industry to include banking and investments, that I see and fear truely for how this kind of information could cause instablity in the markets and thus lead to economic collapse. Reason one why markets fail: uncertainty.
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    Sep 30, 2009 7:17 PM GMT
    WAIT.... one more thing! Back to Enron and ArthurAndrerson... AA actually was Enron's accountant not an external or internal auditor or Examiner for that matter. They were part of the scheme. Thats why AA was actually prosecuted, tried, and convicted as a company. first time that had ever happened in american history. after AA was bought by another company that conviction was overturned. but anyway... just had to clear that part up.
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    Sep 30, 2009 7:53 PM GMT
    aaaalllright lets steer the conversation away from your love of the patriot act and national security soapbox and try and focus on what were here to talk about.

    I'll say it one more time dude, we're talking about The Federal Reserve Transparency act this Friday.

    No one is questing your citizenship, merely your intelligence.
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    Sep 30, 2009 7:58 PM GMT
    Reading the full text of the bill it doesn't look too odious. But, god knows a lot of things could be stapled on in committee. The fact that Ron Paul (who wants to dismantle the FED and is generally insane) is the bill's father makes me want to just laugh and ignore it. But, we will see what it looks like when it makes it to a floor vote.
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    Sep 30, 2009 8:09 PM GMT
    MunchingZombie saidReading the full text of the bill it doesn't look too odious. But, god knows a lot of things could be stapled on in committee. The fact that Ron Paul (who wants to dismantle the FED and is generally insane) is the bill's father makes me want to just laugh and ignore it. But, we will see what it looks like when it makes it to a floor vote.



    hah... and there is the devil in a blue dress right there... well not blue but still that point it out. Another reason why Id be worried too.

    "aaaalllright lets steer the conversation away from your love of the patriot act and national security soapbox and try and focus on what were here to talk about.

    I'll say it one more time dude, we're talking about The Federal Reserve Transparency act this Friday.

    No one is questing your citizenship, merely your intelligence."

    Dude... I bought up other points besides thoes of national security and any ideas? thoughts?
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Sep 30, 2009 8:11 PM GMT
    Ryan,

    I have no immediate fear of China in this area. If we go down, they go down harder because they sell almost everything they make to us, and they own most of our debt. I fear China down the road once they don't depend on us so much. Two things:

    A. They have more people in military uniform than we have in our whole population. If we were to go to war with China, we would lose, AND EVERYONE KNOWS IT, including them. They don't have Western ideas of the intinsic worth of every individual, so they will just keep throwing bodies at us until we run out of our own. Short of a nuclear exchange, we are toast in a war of attrition with China.

    B.. They have the bomb.