Creatine question. . .

  • Razzmaniac

    Posts: 240

    Oct 05, 2009 4:27 PM GMT
    What is the proper and safe use of Creatine. I have a history of kidney stones to start with, and i have started to use Creatine Surge. I naturally drink a ton of water a day anyway and pee ALOT. . . I did NOT do the loading session and every day i work out i use the one scoop (6grams) an hour before my workout and on days i do not work out, i use just a tablespoon in my protein shake to keep it in my system. . . my workouts have been intense in the past month since i started and have nearly doubled my weights on most exercises.
    How long do i need to be taking Creatine and can i use it. . . for a long time??
    Also, is it necessary to take it on down days that i do not workout??
    Thanks guys
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    Oct 05, 2009 4:52 PM GMT
    6 grams sounds like a lot.
    You are probably pissing away your money.
    As long as you keep drinking enough water it should be easy to keep pissing away excess creatine along with whatever else needs pissing out.

    The "right" amount? I don't know.
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    Oct 05, 2009 11:11 PM GMT
    Just eat more carbs, it'll do the same thing without all the bloat and expensive piss. Some guys will take a couple units of insulin with simple carbs after a workout because it helps you carb up better than creatine without all the farty side effects.
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    Oct 06, 2009 12:00 AM GMT
    If you want to read an academic discussion on creatine, I suggest this article from the American College of Sports Medicine (ACSM). Beware, this article is technical.
    http://www.acsm.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Past_Roundtables&Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=2832

    The ACSM found that if you take 3 g of creatine a day for a several days the muscle phosphocreatine levels will be the same as someone taking 20 g a day.
    If you believe the ACSM, 6 g a day is a larger dose than is necessary. To keep life simple, I take one tsp a day which is 5 g

    The ACSM noted that not all athletes respond to creatine supplementation. Twenty percent of individuals showed no increase in muscle phosphocreatine.

    Once the muscles are saturated with creatine you can miss a dose occasionally. I don't know how many doses you can miss and still keep the muscles saturated. It is routine to take creatine daily; even on the days you don't exercise.

    Creatine is definitely effective for the short term. How long this effect last is not known. There are studies showing that creatine was still effective after 12 weeks of use. There are individuals that take creatine for years.

    Creatine is not recommended for individuals less than 18 years old or pregnant women. Anecdotal reports of nausea, vomiting, diarrhea and muscle cramps have been noted. Renal function needs to be monitored if you have preexisting kidney disease or there is a family history of kidney disease.
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    Oct 06, 2009 12:06 AM GMT
    Don't take more than the recommended amount. Any more, you're wasting your money. Don't take it on the days you don't work out. And don't do the pre-loading. Again, you'll be wasting your money.
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    Oct 06, 2009 12:17 AM GMT
    I just went to a GNC store to get some and I got schooled on it!

    Iam not an expert but heres the deal...
    Apparently there are two different types... Old school and amplified
    Apparently amplified is a little better for the body as it doesn't take a toll on your kidneys as much, and it doesn't add water weight... giving you more accurate results!
    I got a pill form..and your suppose to take 2 tablets a day which equal 5g a day!
    I only take one pill whenever I work out soo...
    I also heard you gotta be careful too cause you can gain weight from the stuff.

    Again Iam not an expert but Iam sure someone on here knows all the details!
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    Oct 06, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
    I would hope you do gain weight!

    Isn't bigger muscles the reason people use creatine?
    Bigger muscles weigh more, duh.
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    Oct 06, 2009 1:10 AM GMT
    NO SHIT!
    thats not what i really meant by it! christ!

    The stuff I bought says to take it twice a day every day...so if your not going to the gym everyday your more than likely gonna get fat!

    Like I said...Iam sure you'll get someone that really knows their shit on this! rather than posting a smart ass response to someone else's posting!
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    Oct 06, 2009 12:33 PM GMT
    It is doubtful if creatine causes one to gain fat.

    Creatine contains no fats or carbohydrates. It is a protein substance made up of 3 amino acids. A lot of fitness and bodybuilding articles on the Net say creatine contains no calories. I don't know how this could be true since creatine is a protein substance.icon_confused.gif

    Creatine causes weight gain by increasing muscle mass and causing water to accumulate in muscles.

    There are anecdotal reports of creatine causing fat loss. Additional research is necessary in this area to confirm this observation.
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/974144/how_creatine_can_trigger_fat_loss_and.html?cat=51

    If you consume excessive amounts of protein supplements like whey, the excess will be converted into fat. Maybe this is what the nutrition store was talking about.
    Some protein substances contain carbs which significantly increases the calories; so be careful if you are metabolically prone to gaining fat. Some creatine products also contain carbs which would add calories.
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    Oct 06, 2009 7:26 PM GMT
    If you meant "get fat" why didn't you just say "get fat" ?
    Since it has no calories it is nearly impossible to make fat from it.

    I don't see creatine being made up of (containing) 3 amino acids.

    The body can synthesize creatine from 3 amino acids. During this process those 3 amino acids are taken apart and some elements disposed of such that by later dis-assembling creatine those amino acids are not recovered.

    To the extent that creatine encourages water retention in muscle tissue, there could be some short term water weight gain that is easily and quickly reversible by dehydration - if anyone actually wants to do that.

    Any long term gain from creatine is due to the way it works recycling ATP and postponing lactic acid buildup which in turn enables that one extra rep for more intense workout thus encouraging muscle growth.

    Additionally, by supplementing creatine your body won't have to consume arginine, glycine, and methionine thus leaving more of these amino acids available to build muscles
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    Oct 06, 2009 9:09 PM GMT
    _chuck_ said

    I don't see creatine being made up of (containing) 3 amino acids.

    The body can synthesize creatine from 3 amino acids. During this process those 3 amino acids are taken apart and some elements disposed of such that by later dis-assembling creatine those amino acids are not recovered.



    Chuck, you see very well..I'm impressed...I should have said that creatine is made from three amino acids rather than is made up of three amino acids.

    imageSHI.JPG

    Some web pages say that the initial water retention adds to the size of the muscle. I don't know if this is true or not.
  • Razzmaniac

    Posts: 240

    Oct 06, 2009 11:40 PM GMT
    so i guess the remaining question is still. . . .how many grams is efficient enough? Ive read 6 grams. . . and do i NEED to take it on days i do not work out or will it lose its effect on my workouts????

    Thanks guys
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    Oct 07, 2009 12:31 AM GMT
    The National Institute of Health recommends a maintenance dose of 2-5 grams or 0.3 milligrams per kilogram of body weight per day. .

    http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/patient-creatine.html

    The University of Michigan gives a similar recommendation.
    http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/sma/sma_creatine_sma.htm

    The American College of Sports Medicine implies that 3 grams a day is adequate.

    All three organizations recommend a daily dosing. If you follow the recommendations of these institutions you would need to take creatine every day.

    If you look the topic up on the Net, you will find all kind of recommendations such as take no creatine on off days, others will say take 1/2 dose on off days.
    I came across sites that recommended as much as 15 g a day for maintenance. These recommendations are not from academic institutions. I prefer to follow the recommendations from the three organizations I linked to.
    I take 5 g a day then stop after 2 months. The University of Michigan article discusses cycling..
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    Oct 07, 2009 3:11 AM GMT
    Do this:

    5g with protein shake immediately before workout. 5g with post workout protein shake (in addition to 40-100g of fast digesting carbs).
    On days that you don't train, take 5g with breakfast that has carbs.
    Loading isn't necessary but i recommend 5g 5xday for 5 days. You tend to see results faster (in as little as 3 days by loading).
    There is no need to cycle off creatine. In fact you can re-load after 2-3 months then go back to normal maintenance.
    There are no, i repeat no safety issues with creatine. Anything that you have heard about your body stopping production of creatine or kidney damage is myth - period.

    Good luck hope this helps.

    Peace!