Vaccines for prisoners??

  • bmw0

    Posts: 588

    Oct 17, 2009 9:11 PM GMT
    So i'm watchin CNN and see this story that prisoners are being rushed the H1N1 flu vaccine.

    Now i understand that every life has meaning, but am i wrong to think that these vaccines should be going to those who are not behind bars and still contribute to society?

    I guess you can call me conflicted on the matter.. What do you think?
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    Oct 17, 2009 9:46 PM GMT
    Problem is that a prison is a closed and confined environment. If one person gets swine flu, it will quickly spread to everyone.

    Also, consider that most prisons have a very small medical staff. If a majority of the inmates got really sick, they would either have to call for additional help or transport inmates to the local hospitals. This would cause some headaches in logistics and security. And burn tax payer money.

    It's easy to say, let them get sick and/or die. But then you're going to have some people in the general public protest and call it cruel and unusual, or police brutality, blah blah.

    This is just another case of: You're damned if do, and you're damned if you're don't.
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    Oct 17, 2009 9:48 PM GMT
    hmmm..... prisoners are getting them first because, they live in confined conditions in close contact with other humans making a flu outbreak more likely than in the common population

    Were not protecting societies degenerates so much as preventing a mass flu outbreak among both prisoners and prison guards which would put the (strong union) of prison gaurds and admin at risk of getting sick, and enough of them incapacitated to leave the prison system understaffed and expose the ones that are left to undue risks as well as the risk of prisoners escaping

    think of the headline "12 people die in mass riot and breakout caused by understaffed prison due to flu pandemic"

    That and sick prisoners require very secure and very expensive treatment and the risk of facing the cost of treating would be a fraction of simply vaccinating them all
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    Oct 17, 2009 9:57 PM GMT
    Yeah, I have to think that the circumstance of close confinement is the deciding factor here. Still, I'm not real happy that I continue to wait for my own shot through the VA, despite meeting several of their eligibility criteria. I seem to recall that Republicans in Congress fought spending money on the vaccine last year, and it took Democrat pressure to make it happen. I think we're supposed to pray the flu away, just like the gay contagion. icon_razz.gif
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    Oct 17, 2009 11:54 PM GMT

    Confined spaces, right, but they won't give them condoms and they KNOW sex happens. The virus can and has caused just as much damage in prisons, but they didn't do shit. I guess because HIV is still the number 1 virus we enjoy killing each other with. H1N1 would kill them too fast.

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    Oct 17, 2009 11:58 PM GMT
    bmw0 saidNow i understand that every life has meaning, but am i wrong to think that these vaccines should be going to those who are not behind bars and still contribute to society?


    Nope, you're not wrong AT ALL. These vaccines should be given to CHILDREN before they're given to people behind bars.
  • Sirkit

    Posts: 182

    Oct 18, 2009 12:25 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    Confined spaces, right, but they won't give them condoms and they KNOW sex happens. The virus can and has caused just as much damage in prisons, but they didn't do shit. I guess because HIV is still the number 1 virus we enjoy killing each other with. H1N1 would kill them too fast.


    HIV is spread through sex between inmates and is very unlikely to be spread to staff working at the facility. As sad as it is people above are correct, it's not the inmates that they care about but the staff running the facilities. I'm not sure why this is a big deal though, the vaccine is in limited supply but the supply is so low that extensive rationing is needed. High risk people are still going to receive their shots despite this issue.
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    Oct 18, 2009 12:26 AM GMT
    If it makes you feel better, perhaps they're testing the vaccine on the prisoners (and the Chinese and Australians) before they give it to American children.

    What's that line about society being judged by how we treat our prisoners?
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    Oct 18, 2009 12:39 AM GMT

    It's a classic complication of our country's "lock 'em up" mentality. There are huge costs - not least of them financial - associated with imprisoning a larger proportion of our population than any other developed nation. From a cost point of view, it makes much more sense to vaccinate inmates than to deal with a break out in a population that, for a variety of reasons, is at particular risk of complications. An outbreak in a prison could also serve as a source of infection for the area around the prison since staff, etc would be moving back and forth. Even if the staff were 100% vaccinated, there is no guarantee they would not become a source of infection.

    Some people will say "just leave the prisoners untreated to live or die". That sadism conveniently ignores that we live in a constitutional state that prohibits such neglect. If want to reduce the costs of incarcerating people, the easiest way is to incarcerate fewer people by making use of community based crime diversion, rehabilitation and monitoring for all but those who represent a genuine risk to public safety.

    I have also seen no evidence to suggest that vaccinating prisoners will impede in any significant way the availability of vaccine for children. My hunch is that a bigger impediment to vaccination of children will be many parents' doubts about the safety of vaccines in general and H1N1 vaccine in particular.

  • barriehomeboy

    Posts: 2475

    Oct 18, 2009 12:43 AM GMT
    Oh it gets even better. There was a gang member, Snooks something, who was in prison on DEATH ROW. He went into cardiac arrest, and they revived him to keep him alive. Hello? For what? It's DEATH fucking ROW!
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    Oct 18, 2009 12:48 AM GMT
    barriehomeboy saidOh it gets even better. There was a gang member, Snooks something, who was in prison on DEATH ROW. He went into cardiac arrest, and they revived him to keep him alive. Hello? For what? It's DEATH fucking ROW!


    because the purpose of death row is to allow and inmate to complete an appeals process if they chose, otherwise they would just put a bullet through their brain as they leave court

    like it or not there have been people who have been released from death row
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    Oct 18, 2009 3:38 AM GMT
    MsclDrew said because the purpose of death row is to allow and inmate to complete an appeals process if they chose, otherwise they would just put a bullet through their brain as they leave court


    And the appeals process can be so prolonged that some prisoners remain on death row for 20 years.

    There have even been some post-appeal habeas corpus petitions alleging that the inmates should be released because an extended stay on death row (produced by the inmates' own appeals) amounted to cruel and unusual punishment.
    The theory was ingenious but the courts let common sense prevail.
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    Oct 18, 2009 5:53 AM GMT
    Think of all the people who are not prisoners who work in the corrective service industry. You have all these people in the one place. One person gets sick. Everyone gets sick. Then the virus goes into the community.

    You may not like it or agree with it, but from a public health perspective, it makes more sense. You attend the at risk groups first to stop or soften the spread into the wider community.
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    Oct 18, 2009 6:36 AM GMT
    MsclDrew said
    barriehomeboy saidOh it gets even better. There was a gang member, Snooks something, who was in prison on DEATH ROW. He went into cardiac arrest, and they revived him to keep him alive. Hello? For what? It's DEATH fucking ROW!


    because the purpose of death row is to allow and inmate to complete an appeals process if they chose, otherwise they would just put a bullet through their brain as they leave court

    like it or not there have been people who have been released from death row

    http://www.innocenceproject.org/
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Oct 18, 2009 7:24 AM GMT
    Now i understand that every life has meaning, but am i wrong to think that these vaccines should be going to those who are not behind bars and still contribute to society?

    I don't think it works that way, not yet anyway.
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    Oct 18, 2009 3:43 PM GMT



    Hmmm...there are people in jail for petty theft. There are people in jail for things that are minor and are not serial killers. In fact, if we go back in time a ways there was a time gays were thrown in jail.

    Be careful what you wish for.


    To add to the list....
    Did you guys know prisoners get visitors? How many of them coming and going could spread an easily communicable disease into the greater community?

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    Oct 18, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
    Prisons are filled with nicklebaggers, and each has it's share of the wrongfully convicted. Keep that in mind when picturing the prison yard.
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    Oct 18, 2009 3:49 PM GMT
    The only reason I feel they should get this or any vaccine at all is because of their closed-in situation, and that these "people" get visitors. Then there will be outbreaks amoungst the masses.
    Other then that, they deserve nothing.
    Cheers,
    Keith
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    Oct 18, 2009 3:57 PM GMT
    You have to understand that prisoners are in 'close quarters' and just like people going through basic training in the services, they too are in close quarters which are breeding grounds for creating outbreaks and we cannot risk that especially if the deputies could contract it and then bring it out to the rest of society...

    so yes, give them vaccinations...
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    Oct 18, 2009 3:59 PM GMT
    Musclequest, really? And if you'd been put in jail for DUI and hitting someone?


    Glass houses and stones, not a good mix.


    As an aside, compare the costs of the shot compared to the cost of medical treatment for those going into respiratory distress.
  • rdberg1957

    Posts: 662

    Oct 18, 2009 4:05 PM GMT
    There a few very nasty bad folks in prison. But our overstocked prisons are filled with people who have done wrong, but are not horrible people. Some of the most egregious crimes have been committed by those who made millions off the suffering of others; they languish on Wall Street.
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    Oct 18, 2009 4:12 PM GMT
    meninlove said Musclequest, really? And if you'd been put in jail for DUI and hitting someone?



    Glass houses and stones, not a good mix.


    As an aside, compare the costs of the shot compared to the cost of medical treatment for those going into respiratory distress.


    Hello OLD conscious of us all. First off DUI? Me? Never happen. Simply do not do it.
    As for the cost of respiratory distress cost...Unfortunately they need to treat these "people" that are incarcerated. So yes, that is another reason why they should get the vaccines. (As I did say in my first post thank you.)
    -Keith
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    Oct 18, 2009 4:24 PM GMT
    I have no problem giving the H1N1 vaccine to people in prison. Why? Because they are always guarded by men and women who live outside the prison with their families. I also have no problem giving it to people who are illegal. Why? again, we are humans, not legal or illegal, and we need to protect ourselves from disease. Disease does not legal or illegal or in prison or a prison guard. All it knows is if it can spread itself, it will.
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    Oct 18, 2009 4:26 PM GMT
    Anto said every life has meaning


    Every life has meaning, but some will be missed more than others.
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    Oct 18, 2009 4:27 PM GMT
    I'm more concerned about ultra liberal hippies refusing against all medical advice to allow their kids to be vaccinated