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Anyone (LA based) know of a gay-friendly Chiropractor?

Operating without insurance, so someone honest would be best. Went to this one guy this morning only to be told, that he wouldn't treat me unless I committed to doing at least 8 sessions at (65 bucks a pop).

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

LEANMUSC28 saidAnyone (LA based) know of a gay-friendly Chiropractor?

Operating without insurance, so someone honest would be best. Went to this one guy this morning only to be told, that he wouldn't treat me unless I committed to doing at least 8 sessions at (65 bucks a pop).

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

8 sessions is not too many and $65 is very reasonable. Most charge a lot more than that, but be sure to let him know you have no insurance. They often charge patients who have no insurance less. Most chiropracters are not concerned about one's sexuality when treating patients, so most are gay friendly.

Thanks for the response.

Chiropractors I've seen in the past have seen me immediate needs regardless of how many times I have visited, hence it seemed a bit odd to me I would need to commit to so many treatments. Your right in that 65 is probably not that bad in price, its just the fact he wouldn't give me a make due treatment. And at the moment i can't really afford to do more than one or two sessions.

As to finding a gay oriented doctor... I like to support family where I can ;)

I guess in LA no money gay friendly chiro-BJ HJ =no charge. Why limit yourself to a gay chiropractor. What if there is a better more qualified one who happens to be married with kids and not gay and reduces your cost because of self pay??

Why not see an actual doctor rather than resort to pseudoscience like chiropractic?

And when you do see an actual doctor, go to one that is most qualified, or geographically convenient, etc. Going to a gay doctor because you are also gay is no different than a white guy prefering to see a white doctor.

Chiropractors ARE doctors. you jerk at the bottom who called them pseudoscience doctors. If you go to an MD for this problem they'd give you prescription pain killers when in fact pain is the indicator that there's a problem. My chiropractor is amazing and has cured me of some of my structural conditions and has changed my life.

LEANMUSC28 saidThanks for the response.

Chiropractors I've seen in the past have seen me immediate needs regardless of how many times I have visited, hence it seemed a bit odd to me I would need to commit to so many treatments. Your right in that 65 is probably not that bad in price, its just the fact he wouldn't give me a make due treatment. And at the moment i can't really afford to do more than one or two sessions.

As to finding a gay oriented doctor... I like to support family where I can ;)

The number of sessions depends on what exactly you are seeing him for. I had to have about 8 sessions to get rid of pain in my lower back. The pain was being caused by poor alignment. He showed me on the x-rays how I was out of alignment. With each adjustment, I felt a little less pain, until after about 8 times, it was completly gone. I've never had any more pain. I didn't exactly tell him how I threw my back out, though. I was nude wrestling a guy and I knew right away some bones shifted in my lower back. lol A guy in his 40's should not be wrestling. lol I was scared to go to a chiropracter because I had never been to one before and didn't know what they do. It's wierd what they do. But he had me lay flat on my back and then he lifts my leg up and twisted it into a wierd postion and then he just threw his entire body weight into me. He did this on each side. Then after each adjustment he had me lay on this cot and he puts electrodes on my back and sends electricity into my back for 10 min. I really liked that and helped a lot.

actorathlete10 saidChiropractors ARE doctors. you jerk at the bottom who called them pseudoscience doctors. If you go to an MD for this problem they'd give you prescription pain killers when in fact pain is the indicator that there's a problem. My chiropractor is amazing and has cured me of some of my structural conditions and has changed my life.

You are so right. Doctors give pain pills and will take LOTS MORE of your money, rather than take care of what is causing the pain so you don't need any pain pills

I've got a great chiropractor in LA. He practices a form of chiropractic called SOT. For more info:

http://www.sorsi.com/

After years of chronic low back pain, a few treatments with him were a revelation and totally started me on my journey to better health. I can't even tell you how much time, money and energy I had poured into the black hole of big pharma/western medicine before seeing him. That was about 8 years ago. Since then, I almost never see western doctors, haven't taken any big pharma drugs, and I'm the healthiest I've ever been. Go figure.

I'll email you his contact info. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

I was so happy to find a gay friendly waste disposal company in my area. Those straight boys can be absolute brutes with my trash. Hmmph!

Dr. Weiss at Stanford is the best of the best, in my opinion. I needed him badly in the early 80's and through him - I avoided back surgery.......and have been just fine all these years! I'd HIGHLY recommend checking him out - - even if you had to travel to Stanford from a huge distance. Good luck!


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I was very fortunate and studied a number of different kinds of acupuncture, including Vietnamese style, Traditional Chinese Medicine (modern communist style), five element style, auricular acupuncture, taoist style, trigger point style, and several non-classical Chinese styles. As a result, I usually have something effective for everybody.

I studied psychology and chemistry at Yale and neurochemistry and psychology at Stanford. I have been involved with meditation and yoga for 45 years, with acupuncture and Chinese herbal medicine for 35 years, and with qigong and taijichuan for 20 years. However, my most important credential is always your own result.”
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G_Force said

actorathlete10 saidChiropractors ARE doctors. you jerk at the bottom who called them pseudoscience doctors. If you go to an MD for this problem they'd give you prescription pain killers when in fact pain is the indicator that there's a problem. My chiropractor is amazing and has cured me of some of my structural conditions and has changed my life.

You are so right. Doctors give pain pills and will take LOTS MORE of your money, rather than take care of what is causing the pain so you don't need any pain pills

Exactly. Western medicine is all about the Benjamins!

$65 per session is way too much for a non-insurance rate. The last guy I went to here in Long Beach charged $35 per visit and he was amazing. I know of a couple of guys here who charge $20 per visit for cash patients. My suggestion would be to shop around!

I'd like to encourage anyone interested in chiropractic treatment to check out Rolfing:

http://www.rolf.org/

It's nothing short of amazing. I've experienced so many positive and visible changes in my body since I started. And movement therapy is really helpful in unwinding patterns that have developed over years and years. Chiropractic often provided (sometimes long-term) relief for my symptoms, but Rolfing has actually helped make lasting, positive changes in my body. Check it out!

scftnsguy said$65 per session is way too much for a non-insurance rate. The last guy I went to here in Long Beach charged $35 per visit and he was amazing. I know of a couple of guys here who charge $20 per visit for cash patients. My suggestion would be to shop around!

You are right, chiropracters will lower their rates to the uninsured and will just charge what you can afford. Have you ever heard of a doctor who will do that?

There are different styles of chiropractic treatments. You just need to find one that works for you. All I know is the guy I had did miracles for me and he is in business all by himself with an office. He does his own billing and doesn't even have a secretary to answer phone. He is young, good looking, cute, and has a great personality and has a love for people and wants to help you be pain free. He is great. And if you don't have insurance, he will charge you only what you can afford. How nicer can a guy be? They are rare.

lol I thought mine did crack me in half--I even heard the crack. But, wow, he knew what he was doing to get rid of my back pain. I haven't had to go back to him since.

I know a great one (Gary) in San Diego, sorry not close enough for the OP.

The one I see now (Dean) comes 75 miles once a week. I only need him 2 or 3 times a year. He is good but not as good as Gary.

Neither is gay, not that is matters.
I never talked about sexuality with Dean because it is irrelevant.
I know that Gary is hetero and that he treats many patients gay or straight.
Gary is open-minded and has no aversion to treating people with spines.
Do you have a spine?

As a chiropractic student, I'll tell you $65 a visit is pretty reasonable. 8 visits is also pretty reasonable too. Look at it this way, your structural issues did not happen due to one incident. You've had falls and injuries your whole life that contributed to your pain. Therefore it is safe to say you would need more than one adjustment to put you back together. Beware of doctors who charge the uninsured less. Its actually illegal. Law states there should be one fee for all patients unless it is free. Not saying that those are bad doctors. It just makes you wonder what other dishonest methods they are using.

Delivis saidWhy not see an actual doctor rather than resort to pseudoscience like chiropractic?

And when you do see an actual doctor, go to one that is most qualified, or geographically convenient, etc. Going to a gay doctor because you are also gay is no different than a white guy prefering to see a white doctor.

"actual" doctors are often clueless on muscular-skeletal problems. I´m not sold on chiros (it´s an american thing), but some sort of physical therapist is probably the way forward once you know that it is simply a muscular-skeletal problem.

I have worked with trainers, physical therapists, chiropractors, and massage therapists in dealing with back problems. All have have had part of the solution. My trainer loosened up my hips with active isolated stretching, the chiropractor did adjustments and gave me some effective exercises, the physical therapy program (physician's neck and back clinic) strengthened my obliques and my back extensors so i could do cardio and strength training. Most physicians are clueless regarding muscular-skeltetal problems--the quality of the others varies from excellent to piss poor. I have had useless physical therapy and excellent physical therapy. Bad news chiropractic and wow, is this better chiropractic. The physican at the neck and back clinic was a physiatrist (specialize in body mechanics) did a very good exam and prescribed the treatment. Massage therapists have been helpful at identifying problems, but massage didn't fix them.

LEANMUSC28 saidAnyone (LA based) know of a gay-friendly Chiropractor?

Operating without insurance, so someone honest would be best. Went to this one guy this morning only to be told, that he wouldn't treat me unless I committed to doing at least 8 sessions at (65 bucks a pop).

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

come to my place... i know a good chiropractor.

From this website I have learned something about Chiropractics, thanks to a member who I might consider has opened the door to learn about the subject. As a back pain sufferer myself, I wondered whether this practice might help. So little I knew about it, that I confused it with Chiropody, a practice dealing with injuries of the feet.

Daniel David Palmer was a "magnetic healer" who thought up the idea of "innate intelligence" or a vital force of God's presence which is responsible for maintaining good health. He believed that a vertebral subluxation, or minor misplaced vertebrate of the spine interfered with this innate intelligence, causing impairment to health. This is exactly the equivalent of the Far Eastern philosophy of Yin and Yang, the two forces within the body which if perfectly balanced, would result in good health. Illness is the result of an unbalance of Yin to Yang, and I think, herbal treatment and massaging are administered to the patient.
Such is the idea of "vertebrate subluxation interfering with the innate intelligence" places Chiropractics on the same level as Alternate Medicine, the New Age movement and generally, a branch of the Occult, as religion here plays a role, along with holistic medicine (treating the whole body, not just the affected site) and homeostasis (the maintenance of a stable equilibrium in health of the body).
D.D. Palmer at first kept his practice a family secret for a while (Why?) before founding a school of Chiropractics in Devonport, Iowa, in 1898. His son, Bartlett J. Palmer continued with his father's invention and took over the college in 1906. A year later, B.J. Palmer introduced X-Rays to aid in diagnosis. This resulted in the practice dividing into two routes, "mixed" where practitioners accept help from mainstream medicine, and "straight" Chiropractics, which was fully separate from mainstream medicine,and which D.D. Palmer originally advocated. The idea that an arm of mainstream medicine was grasped by this practice seem to me what a tragic failure straight Chiro was, and even now the majority of practitioners have chosen the mixed version.
Many colleges sprouted, including Palmer School of Chiropractics, 90 East Tasman Drive, St. Jose, a school dealing with sports related injuries, where the referred RJ member trained. The address itself seem to indicate a very small campus.
Although I'm both skeptical and cautious about seeing a Chiro, the idea has crossed my mind. Rejecting all the New Age stuff on which the practice was founded, perhaps the manipulating of my spine might, JUST MIGHT, do it good.

actorathlete10 saidChiropractors ARE doctors. you jerk at the bottom who called them pseudoscience doctors. If you go to an MD for this problem they'd give you prescription pain killers when in fact pain is the indicator that there's a problem. My chiropractor is amazing and has cured me of some of my structural conditions and has changed my life.

Wow....you call the guy a jerk because he doesn't believe in Chiropractic care? He's not the one who came off looking like a jerk.

That being said, I have to absolutely take acception with Delivis' statement, "Going to a gay doctor because you are also gay is no different than a white guy prefering to see a white doctor."
This a completely foolish thing to say, in my opinion. I have 2 doctors, my GP, and my Dentist. Both are Gay. My GP is white, and my Dentist is black. I ALWAYS try to support Our community/family first. How you, (Delivis), equate this to racial biggotry is bloody mindblowing! So a Gay man, seeking to support other Gay businesses (spelling?) first, is predjudicial? Really?
Do others agree with this way of thinking?

Cheers,
Keith

actorathlete10 saidChiropractors ARE doctors. you jerk at the bottom who called them pseudoscience doctors. If you go to an MD for this problem they'd give you prescription pain killers when in fact pain is the indicator that there's a problem. My chiropractor is amazing and has cured me of some of my structural conditions and has changed my life.

Now, if only your mother had taught you a bit of decorum. You've done a great job of showing you aren't very bright, and certainly have issues with communications skills. Chiropractors are NOT medical doctors. They have some basic training in that area, but, they are not doctors of science. Had you spent some time reading on chiropractic, you would know that. You've shown us that not only do you lack manners, but, knowledge, too. Just FYI, because of their lack of medical, and pharmacological, knowledge chiropractors are NOT regarded as MDs, of any kind, and do not have prescription privileges. Next time, before making yourself look silly, you need to know what you're talking about. Much of chiropractic is based on mumbo jumbo of its followers, although it's starting to evolve in the recent past. Clearly, you're just a bit ignorant. I recommend that you spend more time studying before posting.

To the original poster:

Most back pain is resultant of being either to fat, or out of shape, and improper use.

Manipulation has some value but does NOT treat the underlying cause. Much of chiropractic is complete nonsense, and is more about ongoing treatment, rather than fixing the underlying problem.

I've met some chiropractors who were complete idiots and others who were a bit better.

A better choice would be an osteopath, who IS a M.D. and and O.D. who is a true medical doctor, and NOT a chiropractor, but who understands manipulation, as well as medicine and surgery.

Often, getting in shape or correcting an imbalance or behavior fixes the problem. Fixing the underlying problem is a much better choice.

I've been lifting for 34 years, and know that to pop my very low back, and can sit with my knees crossed and twist (just like a real wrestler does). For my low back, I can also put a bunch of weight on the leg press and it'll pop right in. For my mid back, I simply grab a couple of heavy dumbbells and plop down on a flat bench in the weight room, and pop,pop,pop. For my upper back, I can often just roll on the floor, or have someone use their hand or find someone strong enough to pull me over (like a real wrestler does).

My experience with chiropractors has been that most are incompetent.

I can't imagine why a professional doing manipulation would need to know about your sexuality. It seems very self-centric / paranoid from here.

If there is a school near you (here, in DFW, we have Palmer right up the road) you can get treatment on the very cheap.

You may consider, as I said, addressing the underlying problem, instead.

Live Well on Pico near Fairfax. Matt Gloin is my chiro and he knows his stuff:
http://www.livewell-la.com/

QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERE
Manipulation has some value but does NOT treat the underlying cause. Much of chiropractic is complete nonsense, and is more about ongoing treatment, rather than fixing the underlying problem.




I've been lifting for 34 years, and know that to pop my very low back, and can sit with my knees crossed and twist (just like a real wrestler does). For my low back, I can also put a bunch of weight on the leg press and it'll pop right in. For my mid back, I simply grab a couple of heavy dumbbells and plop down on a flat bench in the weight room, and pop,pop,pop. For my upper back, I can often just roll on the floor, or have someone use their hand or find someone strong enough to pull me over (like a real wrestler does).

Ok first of, for someone who clearly can search on google, you have yet to be able to first read and understand a scientific paper. There is an abudence of quality papers which SUPPORT the use of manipulation for low back pain, furthermore, in the UK the NICE guidelines (National Institute for Clinical Health and Excellence) produced guidelines on the management of acute low back pain, and RECOMMENDED the use of manipulation of the low back for low back pain. I understand that the writers of many opinionated websites may attract those without the ability to distinguish between fact and opinion, but the facts are that manipulation is effective.

With respect to your recommendations for "popping" your back, lets just say that im glad thats your spine and not mine. great job!!

If read what I said, which you clearly didn't, you'll see that I said manipulation has some value, but, does not treat the underlying cause.

My view remains that it's better to treat the underlying cause.

My view also remains that most athletes understand how to manipulate their own bodies.

I made NO recommendations about popping one's own back, but, instead said that's what worked for me. I'm afraid that you didn't read properly there, as well.

I did say that I felt a better choice would be an O.D. because he's skilled in medicine, surgery, and manipulation, but from the viewpoint of Western Medicine, and qualified science, as opposed to mumbo jumbo. Chiros don't practice medicine and do not have a medical background and that's why they can't prescribe medicine and use "supplements" as one of their profit centers.

Sorry you are having trouble.

thats cute - seriously

chiropractic certainly isnt based on mumbo jumbo - i certainly dont remember that being part of my masters degree, but once again, your entitled to your opinion, ill keep with the facts

chuckystud said

actorathlete10 saidChiropractors ARE doctors. you jerk at the bottom who called them pseudoscience doctors. If you go to an MD for this problem they'd give you prescription pain killers when in fact pain is the indicator that there's a problem. My chiropractor is amazing and has cured me of some of my structural conditions and has changed my life.

Now, if only your mother had taught you a bit of decorum. You've done a great job of showing you aren't very bright, and certainly have issues with communications skills. Chiropractors are NOT medical doctors. They have some basic training in that area, but, they are not doctors of science. Had you spent some time reading on chiropractic, you would know that. You've shown us that not only do you lack manners, but, knowledge, too. Just FYI, because of their lack of medical, and pharmacological, knowledge chiropractors are NOT regarded as MDs, of any kind, and do not have prescription privileges. Next time, before making yourself look silly, you need to know what you're talking about. Much of chiropractic is based on mumbo jumbo of its followers, although it's starting to evolve in the recent past. Clearly, you're just a bit ignorant. I recommend that you spend more time studying before posting.

To the original poster:

Most back pain is resultant of being either to fat, or out of shape, and improper use.

Manipulation has some value but does NOT treat the underlying cause. Much of chiropractic is complete nonsense, and is more about ongoing treatment, rather than fixing the underlying problem.

I've met some chiropractors who were complete idiots and others who were a bit better.

A better choice would be an osteopath, who IS a M.D. and and O.D. who is a true medical doctor, and NOT a chiropractor, but who understands manipulation, as well as medicine and surgery.

Often, getting in shape or correcting an imbalance or behavior fixes the problem. Fixing the underlying problem is a much better choice.

I've been lifting for 34 years, and know that to pop my very low back, and can sit with my knees crossed and twist (just like a real wrestler does). For my low back, I can also put a bunch of weight on the leg press and it'll pop right in. For my mid back, I simply grab a couple of heavy dumbbells and plop down on a flat bench in the weight room, and pop,pop,pop. For my upper back, I can often just roll on the floor, or have someone use their hand or find someone strong enough to pull me over (like a real wrestler does).

My experience with chiropractors has been that most are incompetent.

I can't imagine why a professional doing manipulation would need to know about your sexuality. It seems very self-centric / paranoid from here.

If there is a school near you (here, in DFW, we have Palmer right up the road) you can get treatment on the very cheap.

You may consider, as I said, addressing the underlying problem, instead.

I'm sorry but I don't think you have correct information, Chiropractors are not lacking in any medical training compared to MDs. The education of both is almost parallel for the first two years. Where Chiropractors and MDs differ is pharmacology and philosophy. Chiropractic school obvious does not teach as much about drugs and pharmaceuticals because Chiropractic is a drugless practice. However chiropractic education has the same amount of hrs in biochemistry as any medical program so there is not much of a disadvantage when it comes to understanding the effects of drugs.

Back pain is not always limited to the causes you listed above, most back pain is a cause of repeated traumas that we endure each day of our lives.

Manipulation DOES help the underlying cause if the problem is structural. If it is a muscular problem any other health care professional can manage it just the same. However, your choice the doctor you prefer depends on your standard of care.

Think of chiropractors as specialist for the spine. No other healthcare division spends as much time studying the the spine than chiropractic. Chiropractic is not "complete non-sense". If you do not believe this I challenge you to visit the pubmed.gov site or the Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics and search for case studies of chiropractic and back pain. Chiropractors use the same book and teaching materials as MDs so I would find it hard to assume that their methods are not valid

Medical doctors and Osteopaths will not treat the underlying cause. Standard protocol for both is a muscle relaxer and and analgesic for the pain. Since Osteopathy has been absorbed by the AMA the profession has become medicalized. Meaning, in the United States, Osteopaths no longer manipulate and an Osteopathic manipulation is different than a Chiropractic adjustment

My advice to you friend, is to not pop your back on purpose. If you can to this without putting a thrust into your spine, you may have hypermobile segments. This is not good and can cause you to have back problems in the future.

If I have sparked some interest in you let me know and I'll be happy to set you up with an intern and the school up the road called PARKER. If you still have the same feelings you have now, that is fine. I'm just happy to give you a little more information.

You're right about Parker. Someone was talking about Palmer and I messed up on Parker. I used to have several guys from Parker on my hockey teams.

I've been around Parker students for years. Many of them train at the same gyms I do.

I'm well acquainted with the what they study.

My view remains the same, that manipulation can have some value but doesn't address the underlying cause. Chiros are NOT PTs, and they aren't medical doctors. Clearly a PT has a better understanding of the underlying stuff. I strongly believe an O.D. is a much better choice.

Chiropractic has its roots in mumbo jumbo, and there's a ton of quackery, and profit taking there that preys upon ignorance.

D.D. Palmer founded chiropractic in the 1890s and his son B.J. Palmer helped to expand it in the early 20th century.[7] It has two main groups: "straights", now the minority, emphasize vitalism, innate intelligence and spinal adjustments, and consider subluxations to be the leading cause of all disease; "mixers" are more open to mainstream and alternative medical techniques such as exercise, massage, nutritional supplements, and acupuncture.[8] Chiropractic is well established in the U.S., Canada and Australia.[9]

For most of its existence, chiropractic has battled with mainstream medicine, sustained by ideas such as subluxation[10] that are not based on solid science.[11] Vaccination remains controversial among chiropractors.[12] The American Medical Association called chiropractic an "unscientific cult"[13] and boycotted it until losing a 1987 antitrust case.[14] Chiropractic has had a strong political base and sustained demand for services; in recent decades, it has gained more legitimacy and greater acceptance among medical physicians and health plans in the U.S.,[14] and evidence-based medicine has been used to review research studies and generate practice guidelines.[15] Many studies of treatments used by chiropractors have been conducted, with conflicting results. Collectively, systematic reviews of this research have not demonstrated that spinal manipulation is effective, with the possible exception of treatment of back pain.[11] The efficacy and cost-effectiveness of maintenance chiropractic care are unknown.[16] Although spinal manipulation can have serious complications in rare cases,[17][18] chiropractic care is generally safe when employed skillfully and appropriately.[19]

Delivis saidWhy not see an actual doctor rather than resort to pseudoscience like chiropractic?

And when you do see an actual doctor, go to one that is most qualified, or geographically convenient, etc. Going to a gay doctor because you are also gay is no different than a white guy prefering to see a white doctor.

I don't mean to take this in a different direction, but my curiousity is peaked....
I have to absolutely take acception with Delivis' statement, "Going to a gay doctor because you are also gay is no different than a white guy prefering to see a white doctor."
I have 2 doctors, my GP, and my Dentist. Both are Gay. My GP is white, and my Dentist is black. I ALWAYS try to support Our community/family first. How you, (Delivis), equate this to racial biggotry is bloody mindblowing!
So a Gay man, seeking to support other Gay businesses first, is predjudicial? Really?
Do others agree with this way of thinking?

Cheers,
Keith

I'm not trying to make a patient out of you and you are entitled to you own opinion but I'm sorry Sir, I fail to see your logic. I have no doubt that you know some Chiropractic students, but I do not think you are well acquainted with what they study. Chiropractic has its roots in mumbo jumbo? So does medicine. Medicine started with common people mixing "elixirs" to fight diseases. But if you look at medicine today and if you look at Chiropractic today you will see different, more evolved professions. Much different than how they started.

Underlying cause? What is this underlying cause you speak of? Muscles? Vertebra? Nerves? If so, these are subjects that a DOCTOR of chiropractic are well educated on. I have many friends who are Physical Therapists or PT students and I too have spent a couple hundred hrs volunteering in a PT office when I thought I wanted to be a Physical Therapist. Because of this I know that a PT is limited in what they can do and treat when compared to MDs, ODs and DCs. Physical Therapists work under orders of other doctors. They are not autonomous. Therefore they do modalities based on what another doctor has prescribed. If you talk to your Parker buddies, they'll tell you that the DC is licensed to and does use the same modalities that PTs do in addition to the adjustment.

What does and MD do for back pain? Prescribe medications that make the pain go away. Doesn't the pain come back when the patient stops taking the drug? If so the cause isn't treated, the pain has been masked. The cause of pain is not the lack of medication. Do you see the logic here?

Your knowledge of healthcare is incomplete. You are implying that the MD is the gold standard of knowledge. However, there is nothing an MD can detect that a Chiropractor cant. We like MD and OD are portal of entry care physicians. That means we are licensed and mandated by the government to screen for every health issue even if we have to refer the patient to another professional for treatment because their ailment is beyond our scope.

Making a profit that preys off ignorance... Thats offensive. Check out the department of labor stats DC make tens of thousands less than GPs. Its sad because a Chiropractic patient is well educated about the treatment process. Your average MD will expect you to trust him blindly because of his license and degree.

You quoted Wikipedia to give an idea of what chiropractic is. That would never fly in a research paper at any level. If you want a definition of something get it from the source. Here is the definition of Chiropractic from a Chiropractic source...

The American Chiropractic Association states...Chiropractic is a health care profession that focuses on disorders of the musculoskeletal system and the nervous system, and the effects of these disorders on general health. Chiropractic care is used most often to treat neuromusculoskeletal complaints, including but not limited to back pain, neck pain, pain in the joints of the arms or legs, and headaches.

Doctors of Chiropractic – often referred to as chiropractors or chiropractic physicians – practice a drug-free, hands-on approach to health care that includes patient examination, diagnosis and treatment. Chiropractors have broad diagnostic skills and are also trained to recommend therapeutic and rehabilitative exercises, as well as to provide nutritional, dietary and lifestyle counseling.

The most common therapeutic procedure performed by doctors of chiropractic is known as “spinal manipulation,” also called “chiropractic adjustment.” The purpose of manipulation is to restore joint mobility by manually applying a controlled force into joints that have become hypomobile – or restricted in their movement – as a result of a tissue injury. Tissue injury can be caused by a single traumatic event, such as improper lifting of a heavy object, or through repetitive stresses, such as sitting in an awkward position with poor spinal posture for an extended period of time. In either case, injured tissues undergo physical and chemical changes that can cause inflammation, pain, and diminished function for the sufferer. Manipulation, or adjustment of the affected joint and tissues, restores mobility, thereby alleviating pain and muscle tightness, and allowing tissues to heal.

Chiropractic adjustment rarely causes discomfort. However, patients may sometimes experience mild soreness or aching following treatment (as with some forms of exercise) that usually resolves within 12 to 48 hours.

In many cases, such as lower back pain, chiropractic care may be the primary method of treatment. When other medical conditions exist, chiropractic care may complement or support medical treatment by relieving the musculoskeletal aspects associated with the condition.

Doctors of Chiropractic may assess patients through clinical examination, laboratory testing, diagnostic imaging and other diagnostic interventions to determine when chiropractic treatment is appropriate or when it is not appropriate. Chiropractors will readily refer patients to the appropriate health care provider when chiropractic care is not suitable for the patient’s condition, or the condition warrants co-management in conjunction with other members of the health care team.


Check out acatoday.org for more information on Chiropractic

To Slasher

I'm aware that your post was addressed to Chuckystud, whom, I believe, that his intense dislike for "false belief systems" was inflamed towards Chiropractic when he read my post above it, and Wikipedia, the source of the information I posted, that the origins of this practice was religious rather than scientific.
But I wish to take a few issues here, and I'm not defending Chucky. He and I disagree on many things, mainly that he is a determined Atheist, while I'm supportive of Biblical Christianity.
The idea that D.D. Palmer, who invented the practice, placed it on religious grounds was admitted by the man himself. In wrote in 1911, two years before his death:
"We would need to build a boat similar to Christian Science and hoist a religious flag. I HAVE RECEIVED CHIROPRACTIC FROM THE OTHER WORLD, (my emphasis) similar as to Mrs Eddy (Baker)....AND LET THAT...BE THE RIGHT TO PRACTICE OUR RELIGION. (Emphasis his).
Did Palmer and Baker receive "revelations" from another world?
If so, then these "revelations" match those of the "Guide Spirits" which dwell in mediums during seances, the "Grand Masters" of the Universe who pass divine wisdom to selected individuals, UFO sightings and other demonic entities which are out to deceive. This is pure occultism.
D.D. Palmer was an occultist, not a genuine researcher in science, and he even spent time in jail.
The American Medical Association opposed Chiropractic for decades. Whether their motive was purely ethical or a financial threat to the drug makers, I can't be too sure either way. But let us forget this idea that a misaligned vertebrate is the cause of all diseases. If this is true of the core beliefs in Chiropractics, then the practice is a panacea, and a dangerous one at that, since it ignores issues like infection, where antibiotics are needed, or cancer, where an operation is necessary to remove the affected tissue. Sorry to disagree with you on this matter, but I cannot refer one who practice Chiropractics as a doctor. Rather I have for convenience sake, used the term "practitioner" instead - which is a lot more polite than "quack"!
Wikipedia may not be a perfect source of information - what is? But I doubt very much that deliberate untruths are ever included, because the website demands citations to verify the information posted.

My chiropractor charged $35 but now my insurance covers it which is great. I also don't understand why you'd need a "gay friendly" chiropractor unless you really have issues with homophobic doctors.

I think I have a better understanding of your problem. You think that chiropractic is invalid due to the nature of its founder. I agree, D.D. Palmer was an eccentric, but I have read many of his books and for a man who was not formally educated he did well. If you're interested in quotes from relavent sources, pick up one of those books yourself. I suggest reading the many books written by the man himself. However I'll assure you that the other professions you support were not first founded by scientific research. Chiropractic today about 100 years later is now research based. Even graded by medical researchers as the standard for many ailments especially Low back pain. If you want a relavent source look for it. You speak of how medical science is research based or scientific well look up the research for chiropractic. It is there. Obviously not as much is there for us as MDs but understand our scope is smaller.

The medical profession did denounce chiropractic care. Not because it was ineffective but because it was not held up to their standards. Which is the double blind random controlled trial. I'll spare you the specifics but I'll tell you its hard to do these studies when you have to touch your patients to treat them. If you do care to know the process that chiropractic had to endure to have equal rights as MDs look up the wilk vs. ama case. The medical profession also denounced Osetopathy and did not give them any praise until they agreed to give up their identity as a profession and join the AMA. Don't believe me, look up the difference between a practicing Osteopath in the state compared to those in Europe. Seems like a specific sector wants control over healthcare.

Find me a practicing Chiropractor who thinks that he can heal all diseases with the adjustment and I'll let you call him quack right in front of me. That is NOT taught in our schools.I believe in the previous post I posted a statement from the ACA that said we readily refer out and work with other practitioners when needed.

I have no issues with your opinion. You are entitled to it and I'm sure you think this way because you haven't had a chance to speak with someone in the profession. I'll gladly answer any questions you have. But understand I cannot let anyone put out information about my profession that I know is not true or I feel is misleading.

According to wikipedia a doctor is someone who has received a doctorate degree; a practitioner is someone who engages in an occupation, profession, religion, or way of life. So call us what you like. You will not offend me. But if you doubt our doctorate degree check out this link: http://www.drgrisanti.com/mddc.htm

I can hook you up with a gay Chiropractor if you come back to FL for the Holidays bud. He practices in Fort Lauderdale.

Slasher,
An excellent post, and I have taken in all the issues you have pointed out.
And being an open minded person, the best thing that could happen for me is to have a face-to-face talk with one who practice Chiropractics, and let him demonstrate the positive usefulness of his profession, without self reservation and without holding back anything he knows.
Such a meeting would go much further than reading a thousand books on the subject.

Thats great. I am happy that you are willing to be open minded and I hope that you do get the chance to talk to a DC. But if you ever have any questions do not hesitate to contact me. Sorry, if I came across a little strong. I am sometimes aggressive about things I am passionate about.

Chiropractors Rock!

Mine charges $30 per adjustment and never gives an amount of visits number to you, you go as often as you feel is needed to feel better, no doctor can tell you how much time that will take.
He also does packages where you can buy blocks of 10 visits to use in your own time frame for $200.. never buy into a "treatment plan" where you are forced to come in whether you feel it is need or not.

Also, anyone that doesn't feel that chiropractors are real doctors are entitled to their opinion... and can suck it!

I'm a sports therapy masseur in LA. I refer all my clients to one chiropractor. Dr de Borhegyi at Body Structure in Hollywood. He is brilliant, and he does a great combination of adjustment and soft tissue work. He also happens to be gay.

http://bodystructurela.com/

Great conversations around Chiropractic here guys!

I work on a lot of injury related issues with clients (including the touring cast of Chorus Line, cirque style performers, rugby players and other masseurs) and very seldom is it ever appropriate to refer them to a GP or MD for their issues. Truly, a lot of my clients actually come to me after an MD has given them a drug or a cortisone shot, and told to go about their business. The drug then masks the pain and the injury gets worse because the individual never actually treated the muscle issue, never saw a chiropractor, never became aware of how to use their body properly and never learned they were straining the injury in the first place so they continued to abuse the structural systems involved until the injury is often only fixable through surgery.

Each physician type has their expertise and should be used in the proper way. Unfortunately in America, at least, we aren't often educated or aware of how and when to use things like massage, acupuncture, chiropractics and our physicians. A GP is a very important physician to work with but they are a "general practitioner", they are NOT an expert in everything. They will treat to the best of their ability in the field they understand. It may not be the best option. When it comes to muscular/spinal structure and injury, I very seldom ever look to the GP first.

There is also GREAT value in avoiding injury by paying close attention to form in exercise, avoiding hyper-extension in any exercise movement, focus on core inclusion in everything (strong and lean workout) and adding in things like Yoga and Pilates to take core training to a greater level of strength, awareness and control. Of course, I'm also a big believer in finding a real, sports therapy massage therapist and setting regular sessions with them. A good one can help raise your level of body awareness many times over, help you break training plateaus, lift more, keep conscious of building a strong, balanced muscular frame and make you aware of over training or repetitive injuries before they become a problem. That's if you find a good one.

Good luck guys and props to all those out there in the healing industry, you're well needed and much appreciated!

Eric