SUPERCHARGED TOPIC - Race

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 3:58 AM GMT
    Please do not argue, or antagonize with your responses, only give your own experience. Please be honest and respect other peoples perspective even if you do not agree.

    Now that I got that out of the way. I have had a series of very interesting conversations with guys in the last few weeks that centers around gay men, dating, profiles and race.

    Calling someone a racist or prejudiced are fighting words. Even if it is true, the idea that you are capable of being what you believe to be as so fundamentally wrong is fascinating. The level of denial that this represents is even more fascinating.

    So here is where it gets supercharged. The idea that as gay men we are supposed to be more accepting and liberal, adds an interesting layer to the subject of race. Yet in dating it often times seems to the contrary. We all see examples of it online. It is usually in two flavors, omission (Listing the acceptable races, intentionally leave others out) and inclusion (Specifying the races that are unacceptable, meaning those not mentioned are ok). I have my own personal feelings on this especially since I find myself as one of the most commonly excluded.

    The big buzz word seems to be "preference" as a justification. I can go along with that, however, the word preference leaves room for more than just the preference....Meaning I prefer asian men, but will also consider black, white, latino etc. BUT, if a so called preference is actually an exclusivity wouldn't that cross into the realm of racism. The reason I ask racism is because the exclusions and inclusions are based solely on race. Another argument is that some say they are only attracted to certain races which is also something I can't wrap my brain around fully. How is it that every single person of an entire race can be unattractive? I have my preferences but I have found men attractive of every single ethnicity.

    What do you think, believe, feel?

    Remember keep it civil.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 4:37 AM GMT
    I surmise not a topic that will be kept civil for long
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 4:44 AM GMT
    lol GaFuzz, there's no better stop sign for you when you see such things on a profile. If they simply hid their feelings about this there would be a lot of winnowing to do, eh?

    The chances of advances or trying to get to know someone that's not up front about their preference puts us (if we were single) at a disadvantage.

    So in a strange odd way they're doing everyone else a favour.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 4:47 AM GMT
    oh the "it's just a preference" is putting some "nice and fluffy" on what is a racial slant..

    I once thought Asians weren't attractive.. I met hot asians, it wasn't until after I met them that I realised I was taking a stereo type and using it against them.. my opinion has now entirely changed because of that experience, I like hot guys, no matter what the race, no matter where they come from.

    But lots of people don't like to have that little stigma thrown on them.. cause OMG I'm so perfect I'm not raciest... ooers

    This thread will totally turn narky!

    edit: total fick up with ma typing grrrrrrr
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 9:07 AM GMT
    I used to know this person (he WAS a friend of mine) that told me something like "no offense, but not many guys would like you 'cause your asian." Whether he was trying to actually offend me or not, that did make me insecure about myself, and I feel like it was the same thing as saying "it's just a preference."

    Some people have their opinions already set up, and you can't change them. I would have bitch slapped him in the face though. lol

    And doesn't everyone face racism in some ways? I'd rather get over it and love the people who truly appreciate me. By the way I'm pro-hot-men-come-in-all-colors. Ha.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 6:43 PM GMT
    Blondizgd saidI surmise not a topic that will be kept civil for long


    popcorn.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 6:54 PM GMT

    .....................
    This topic has lost its charge.


    .......god_lightning_right.png
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:06 PM GMT
    You have a point. I do not pigeon-hole myself into one specific type of guy based on race or any other issue. I have dated white and black men; and find that if he's good, handsome, and takes care of himself...we can talk and go from there. Currently in an interracial relationship and he is a wonderful person and I am happy. The race issue does not exist in my personal life. I have met men from all walks of life and it has made life quite interesting. But each person can have their preference and everyone should respect that.
  • PipHop

    Posts: 439

    Oct 22, 2009 7:14 PM GMT
    Many people are afraid to discuss the topic of race (or religion, politics, sexuality, etc.) due to their own discomfort with how they feel and think they will be perceived. However, a civil discussion (and really how long do those last?) might make people more at ease in talking about their true feelings. That being said, how many people are open to challenging themselves about their internal issues regarding others? If that answer were easy to answer, we wouldn't have a need for this thread though.

    As for dating preference, I personally don't mind someone of another race not wanting to date any particular race, unless it's that person's own. I'm not saying that one absolutely must date their own race, but if a man or woman excludes their own, then what does that say about them? And how can they be upset if someone else wouldn't date them, when they wouldn't either? That just seems like a sign of a bigger, deep seated problem with internalized self hate. Of course, I'm speaking strictly from a minority (black) point of view.

    Either way, I've noticed that most people that prefer a certain type are also attracted to other types. Some may just not say it.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:17 PM GMT
    When I like someone, it doesn't matter what race he is. One of the advantages of travelling around the world is meeting men of different cultures and races. The stereotypes come tumbling down.

    But other people with negative issues about different races will have something critical to say, and you gotta learn to deal with it.

    What I find annoying too are gay people who might see me with a black guy, or an Asian or Latin and instantly say "I'm into" guys of those nationalities, as if I just joined some specific club.(to the exclusion of white guys).

    For classification purposes, I'm white, although my heritage is from Italy and the middle east.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:26 PM GMT
    Personally I don't have any real disdain for any race, but I must admit that I've had some built in prejudices from childhood because of how I was raised seeing prejudice. I have not seen any race yet that I couldn't be attracted to, yet there's that bit of damn race exclusiveness in my background that I would lik to totally eradicate. The only way I know to get rid of it is to keep making and cultivating friends among all races. Is there other ways of ridding oneself totally of defference between races? Do black folks for instance feel some of what I'm describing toward us whites
    because of how they may have been raised ?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:30 PM GMT
    Lucky we have you to recharge it with that hunky Zeus.
    I'm an equal opportunity racist, and no one said gay men (were supposed to be)/are more liberal.
    Race and ethnicity are very different terms and race is nothing but a cultural construction. What is ___ to one is not ____ to another.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:30 PM GMT
    realifedad said Personally I don't have any real disdain for any race, but I must admit that I've had some built in prejudices from childhood because of how I was raised seeing prejudice. I have not seen any race yet that I couldn't be attracted to, yet there's that bit of damn race exclusiveness in my background that I would lik to totally eradicate. The only way I know to get rid of it is to keep making and cultivating friends among all races. Is there other ways of ridding oneself totally of defference between races? Do black folks for instance feel some of what I'm describing toward us whites
    because of how they may have been raised ?


    THAT is the kind of honest talk we need more of so that these feelings are out in the open, instead of being hidden, so that people can talk about them and come to a better understanding.

    BRAVO.

    Sometimes I get the impression that some black guys think and play up the idea, that white guys are playing out some "Mandingo fantasy" when a white guy is with a black guy, as if its sooooo naughty. (forbidden fruit). I just want to tell them to get lost. For me, its the guy, not the race that matters.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:36 PM GMT
    I think it's an uncomfortable topic because it was a blind spot for centuries, many efforts for rectifying were awkward and rebuffed as contrived, and ignorance still abounds.

    Most racist people KNOW racism is wrong, and most genuinely do not want to offend (let's ignore the racists who think that racism is right, for now--they're just shitheads). Most aren't sure why they're racist, and fear of saying the wrong thing makes them avoid other races altogether. Most have not completely overcome the prejudices of their parents: "Mom doesn't care if I'm gay, but she'd have a bird if I came home with a black man" still happens.

    More time, more education, more MIXING is required for this to go away.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 7:52 PM GMT
    Well its pretty interesting to know when somebody says am open minded but I have preferences. I would say am a completely non-racist guy, but is that really true? only I can tell. So though I want to be like that and I try hard, but as realifedad said, its somehow stiched in out head and thoughts and will take some time to completely get rid off. So far all I know is I have met men who are hot and belong to various different races. But again some people I know take offense too easily, like, I don't think we match then that is automatically tagged as being racist. Sometimes it might be true sometimes not. Given that we never would think if its me, oh no that can't be true, it has to be him, he has to be a racist. Its hard to know he didn't like you than blaming on the race.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 10:33 PM GMT
    Actually that hunky Zeus is my GIF and he does what I tell him to. He was putting the charge away when his suspender broke. This topic has been raped on these forums. People either get on a pretentious pedestal and use it as an opportunity to take being pc to obnoxious heights or the queens of mean come out and try to justify being judgmental cunts. I tend to respect the queens of mean more because at least they are honest.

    Bottom line, race in the gay community is a moot point. If we were talking about black/other men being denied jobs, leases, being able to vote, or being able to pursue happiness to the best of their ability, we'd be talking racism and equality. When it comes to the discussion of race as it has appeared countless times in this forum, we are talking about black/other men who covet white booty, but are too undetermined to pursue it. Too bad, I have accrued from my experience that while stereotyping exist in the community, it is not as iron clad as a real prejudice would be.

    Many of the "races" who complain of it either wear the stereotype like a robe of honor, walk around with the weight of the stereotype's existence weighing them down, or view a white man's affections as affirmative action, in a sense as they want to be validated or accredited by white men. These are the reasons they don't get that sweet, delicious, alabaster stuff, not because of racism. How do I know? It's because I happen to adore white....men myself and I haven't experienced a problem because I enjoy being James first and fore most, before being "black." I don't consult the BET Awards for tips on life, and I do not carry a torch mourning the deprivation of black men in society.

    The last THING I do not do is view banging a white man as a way to boost my ego or collect something I think society owes me. SO naturally, when a white man puts up his delectable hands and politely says "I'm not interested." It doesn't rock my world's foundation. In other words, these objects of prejudice, in the gay community at least, have a personal problem.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 11:08 PM GMT
    I will put this in my own perspective. I was raised to be accepting of everyone regardless of race. I thought I was without bigotry. About 30 years ago, I went on a date with a black guy. I was having dinner with his family. I was cool about it and actually looked forward to it. When it actually happened, I realized that I was uncomfortable sitting at that table. I was the only white person in the room. A certain fear crept over me that was imparted by what I saw on TV at the time and things I had heard people say.

    I maintained my composure but I realized two things. First, that I still had some prejudice that I needed to address, secondly, I realized what it must be like for someone black to be the only one in a room full of whites. (I did also realize this in context with any other race.) It was a good, though difficult learning experience to admit to. It changed my perspective since I experienced something from a standpoint that I couldn't have been aware of.

    Now, at that time, I was more attracted to black men because of the fact that more of the black men that I knew were in far better shape than the white guys that I knew. It wasn't an attraction based on a stereotype though (unless 'in better shape' is a stereotype.)

    The idea of preferences is too broad and doesn't define whether the repulsion of a race is based on a learned stereotype or a specific set of features. I know many guys with limitations that are, to me, almost absurd. I know one guy who only likes men who are white, tall, fairly thin, dark hair, and blue eyes. That's it. No variation on that. No one who's black, or broad shouldered, or blond, or brown eyed or short will do. This isn't prejudice, it's a preference and a narrow one at that.

    Now, there are also guys who are prejudice (and of course they deny it as preference) who won't go out with anyone of another race or a specific race. You really have to interview people to determine though, if their decision making process is based on racial stereotypes or preferences. Personally, I'm not physically attracted to men who are obese. If they also happen to be of another race, then someone could easily, though inaccurately call me racist. Now, you may call me 'weightist' or whatever that term is, but I have no issue with anyone being happy with the weight that they are, nor do I assume other deficits because of the extra weight. It is simply part of what I find physically attractive in a personal sexual way (meaning that I think that there are heavy men who are quite beautiful, but thier attractiveness is similar to a women's attractiveness in the sense that there is no sexual component to the beauty for me).

    Just one man's experience and opinion.

    As a side note, I would add that if I find a guy to be really attractive to me, I don't really care what anyone else thinks. I don't require validation or approval to think some guy's hot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 11:12 PM GMT
    *puts hand up* I'm interested icon_eek.gificon_twisted.gif

    Lord, I can't even not be whore like on a serious thread, I totally need spanking!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 11:25 PM GMT
    lilTanker said*puts hand up* I'm interested icon_eek.gificon_twisted.gif

    Lord, I can't even not be whore like on a serious thread, I totally need spanking!!



    would that be with a paddle or my hand?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 22, 2009 11:38 PM GMT
    I think for most people, it's not a matter of prejudice or racism, but rather more so an issue of perceived beauty. Some people might find what they know and have grown up with to be that beauty, so they might be attracted to people who are similar to them (i.e., guys in small towns will most likely be attracted to only white guys).

    On the other hand, one's perception of beauty could be that of a more exotic nature, so they tend to gravitate toward guys who are completely different from them. I've actually met many men who have an affinity for Asian men and through conversation and getting to know them, I find out that they grew up in some doohicky town with a population of less than 100,000 people - and this isn't just one or two guys. It's quite a handful of them and this attraction to the "exotic" has always fascinated me.

    It's true that some of these "preferences" may come down to racism, but for 90% (give or take - this isn't a scientific hypothesis) of the time, I really do think it comes down to one's perception of beauty.

    This perception of beauty is of course conditioned through our life experiences and also internally through the way by which we process this conditioning. For example, how some white guys from small towns will only date white guys, whereas others tend to gravitate away from white guys (although this is much more rare in my experience).

    I know that I definitely have specific preferences, but have found men from all races and ethnicities to be attractive. But at the same time, these men that I find attractive have features that are similar to my specific preference.

    I say let everyone have their preferences. If it bothers you, try changing that person's perception of beauty ;)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Oct 23, 2009 9:10 AM GMT
    RST2009 said
    lilTanker said*puts hand up* I'm interested icon_eek.gificon_twisted.gif

    Lord, I can't even not be whore like on a serious thread, I totally need spanking!!



    would that be with a paddle or my hand?


    Anything but the surfboard, please!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2009 12:58 AM GMT
    I'm kind of thinking out loud again so here goes. There are three non white guys in the several posts above me, 1-the_others, 2-Japultra and 3-guiltygear, that's two black men and an Asian man, and I must say very good looking men. I find them attractive, but each of us come from different backgrounds that may affect how we feel about about one another whether or not we may be good looking. Age is probably a factor when they think about me, and even though I think they are good looking my race as a white guy usually has some built in prejudice whether we like it or not. You know really when you get down to it, its stupid to be prejudiced at all, I think I've come a long ways in putting behind the way I was raised but I have more to go. sometimes I think about how rediculous prejudice is and its laughable in a way because of how ignorant prejudice is. When you get right down to facts, there really is only one difference between races, skin color, all organs, the blood and even the skin would transfer between races and work just fine. What in the world are we thinking when we hang onto any prejudice? yet the world is full of prejudice. I think the more we mix the better off we'll be !!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
    prejudice has always existed, and always will. As a gay guy your going to encounter it, why would you waste time wondering about how someone doesn't like you, if you know they don't like you for a narrow minded reason? if you let it bother, then it's winning over you.
  • leixguy

    Posts: 144

    Nov 06, 2009 2:23 AM GMT
    I know I'm going to get labelled a racist for this but I'm just being honest, I'm rarely attracted to non white guys and i probable will never be with a non white guy, its just something built into my subconscious that dating certain races (and people of certain backgrounds) is beneath me.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 06, 2009 2:24 AM GMT
    I've come across A LOT of people how have preferences (myself included) and I've learned that people are what they are for better or worse.

    To be honest I don't have the time or patience to try and change someone's thinking style of a particular race. It's as pointless as trying to teach a daisy quantum physics and actually expect an answer.

    In my case when I've come up across people who say they have preferences and say they aren't racist I actually take them at their word. In all honesty I could care less. So "what's his name" isn't into blk guys. Ok. I figure it his loss and I just press on. I imagine the same thing is applied to me when I say that I have a preference and show no interest in someone. Big deal.

    I openly admit that I have a thing for Blacks, Whites and Hispanics but I don't knock the opportunity of relations with any other race. If I were to do that I'd be a hypocrite since I'm crazy mixed to begin with. I'm a firm believer that if the chemistry and mood is right and I'm with the right person at the right time then anything can happen but until then I still have preferences/standards and I'm not about to change them just to satisfy someone else or be all PC about it.

    I believe some people just don't like dealing with premeditated rejection when they see someone they like and I'm betting they hate being shot down before they even had a chance to fly.