Why are we gay guys so Anal

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    Oct 25, 2009 2:04 AM GMT
    I know that's a generalization which is against the rules, but really !!! Look at the forums and my god we are so damn hard on each other and everyone around us. A few seem easygoing but generally we seem to exhibit an anal way of picking things/people apart that seems to set expectations unrealisticly high. Often picky people are unhappy with themselves. What do you think?? Have you wondered about this issue yourself?
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:19 AM GMT
    You already stated the obvious answers....."Often,picky people are unhappy with themselves" and these same people most likely have unrealistically high expectations for themselves and others that they deal with.... I could agree with this observation and/or hypothesis.....but, I think it is painting with the biggest paint brush in the kit too, and is covering over many of the finer details.....you know what they say about "ASSUMPTIONS"...they make an "ASS" out of "U" (You) and "ME"......icon_eek.gif
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:22 AM GMT
    realifedad said I know that's a generalization which is against the rules, but really !!! Look at the forums and my god we are so damn hard on each other and everyone around us. A few seem easygoing but generally we seem to exhibit an anal way of picking things/people apart that seems to set expectations unrealisticly high. Often picky people are unhappy with themselves. What do you think?? Have you wondered about this issue yourself?


    Online world is a crude form of the real world. Also, many people who grew up with internet chat by and large don't share your point of view and this crude form of behavior is normal to them...and to me. You're right that some meticulous and flame-mongers just have low self-esteem. But others act like this online for sheer pleasure and entertainment. I'm on other forums where homophobia, racism, death, etc., are among topics that are treated lightly with little to no sensitivity. Realjock is about a 4 out of 10 as far as desensitivity goes (10 being completely desensitized and 1 being over-sensitive).
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:26 AM GMT
    I don't think it's just limited to gay guys. Not limited to guys on this site either.

    People are more inclined to say things online that they never would say in person. From my experience, people are somewhat different online than they are in person. That can be either a good thing or a bad thing. On a different forum, I've met people that are totally cool online and have a lot of interesting things to say. But in person, they become very shy and reclusive. They almost seem like they don't even want to be in the same room as you. I've also met people that are total assholes online, but are actually somewhat pleasant to talk to in person.
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:27 AM GMT
    xrichx saidPeople are more inclined to say things online that they never would say in person.


    Bingo
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:30 AM GMT
    Good Gadooski, real life dad! Don't buy into the hipe that are lies about gay men. We pick things apart? This is hardly the place to make inferences like that because this is a discussion forum and the whole point is to dissect and discuss topics. I don't think gay men are anymore critical than anyone else, it's just we've been labeled as such, which means people expect it from us and often perceive it where it doesn't exist. You as a much wiser and experienced gay man should know this. Before it happens, it will annoy me, but people will come in here and say, "picky, why because we have higher preferences and standards we aren't afraid to stand by?" As snotty as that sounds, I'll have to agree, after I stop rolling my eyes. It's true, but often that position is used to mask real bitchiness and snobbery. More often than not, however, it is just true.

    I don't know, maybe we stick by our standards and hold everything to a higher standard because we are constantly judged and picked apart, for those of us who had the right mannerisms, since before we came out to our self.

    Shame on you. I hope this isn't playing into any of your unfair notions about gay men, but I hope you get your ass handed to you in this flame trap....icon_mad.gificon_smile.gificon_surprised.gif

    .............Photobucket
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:32 AM GMT
    ^ wait, you're being completely sarcastic right?
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:42 AM GMT
    GuiltyGear saidGood Gadooski, real life dad! Don't buy into the hipe that are lies about gay men. We pick things apart? This is hardly the place to make inferences like that because this is a discussion forum and the whole point is to dissect and discuss topics. I don't think gay men are anymore critical than anyone else, it's just we've been labeled as such, which means people expect it from us and often perceive it where it doesn't exist. You as a much wiser and experienced gay man should know this. Before it happens, it will annoy me, but people will come in here and say, "picky, why because we have higher preferences and standards we aren't afraid to stand by?" As snotty as that sounds, I'll have to agree, after I stop rolling my eyes. It's true, but often that position is used to mask real bitchiness and snobbery. More often than not, however, it is just true.

    I don't know, maybe we stick by our standards and hold everything to a higher standard because we are constantly judged and picked apart, for those of us who had the right mannerisms, since before we came out to our self.

    Shame on you. I hope this isn't playing into any of your unfair notions about gay men, but I hope you get your ass handed to you in this flame trap....icon_mad.gificon_smile.gificon_surprised.gif

    .............Photobucket
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Well as usual I cannot help but enjoy what you write, and I won't take anything personal, I just couldn't resist starting this after some of what I've read today. Honestly though, I have some gay acquaintances that make me cringe at how out they are with their pickiness. They're worse than a room full of old maids ever thought of being. LOL !!!
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    Oct 25, 2009 3:30 AM GMT
    Hey jakebenson, you said, "Online world is a crude form of the real world. Also, many people who grew up with internet chat by and large don't share your point of view and this crude form of behavior is normal to them...and to me."


    ...lol, well OK we'll protest too much.


    Why does it have to be that way? Can't we just be who we are, online? How does anyone know anyone, should everyone be other than they are?

    -us


    ..omgweaskedfor it...*cringes*

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    Oct 25, 2009 3:36 AM GMT
    I believe you are right. I was never involved with the gay community in general and this is probably my first collective view of a small group of us and I was shocked. I must say very disappointed at some of what I see. I then sat down with a few of my gay friends and put this discussion forward and majority of them agreed that I was right.

    I am gay, I have been ridiculed for it, abused for it, discriminated for it, alienated for it... Lets say I have had my share of dirt kicked in my face in different parts of the world. I have known people that were put to death for it. ( Not in the US) And I expected the gay community in US to be a welcoming host to me. Not only the open arms are not there but instead I have been categorized, put in place and numbed. I like most of the guys here, but in general the gay community is a major disappointment. heartbreaking, egocentric, ANAL...

    The gay community, at least here in SOCAL USA is a let down. Totally not what I expected.



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    Oct 25, 2009 11:20 AM GMT
    Well since Im sure sometimes I might seem like an asshole... ( i can admit that much since Ive been told that not but anyone on here but still) I don't mean to offend and if anything you guys should know that even if Im all in to something and I might disagree with ya... if we were all in a pub I'd buy all you guys around and says cheers. I like debates and differences. Makes the world fun and exciting. No hard feelings are ever held on my side even if C4 can be a pain in the ass.. I'd still have a shot with him. lol
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    Oct 25, 2009 11:21 AM GMT
    ha i wish i could say it was limited to online but yeah.. its just me in genreal. Type A kicking in I guess.
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    Oct 25, 2009 11:52 AM GMT
    realifedad said Often picky people are unhappy with themselves.



    I think that sums it up!!!!
  • a2507

    Posts: 152

    Oct 25, 2009 2:12 PM GMT
    This motto

    ~Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak kindly.~

    was on another RJ profile, a guy in the NW, to whom I'd give credit if I could remember his profile name (sorry). I was really taken by it and have been using it on my emails to remind myself each time when I read it.

    Seems like a lot of what's out there could be addressed by "speaking kindly."

    It's not been my strong point in the past but I'm trying to be mindful, self aware, to speak kindly where ever I can.

    BTW, I don't mean that we have to agree at all times or that criticism is always to be avoided.
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    Oct 25, 2009 2:18 PM GMT
    lol, we hear you a2507!
  • rdberg1957

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    Oct 25, 2009 2:42 PM GMT
    I think there is truth to what the poster is saying. Gay men are much kinder to others who are not gay. I believe it is a consequence of our heritage. Most of us grew up in isolation, not knowing other gay people even in our own families. Isolation from those like us, being a reviled sub-population (despite great progress), these contribute to an extra dose of judgment in adulthood of one another, even though we have been recipients of heavy, unwarranted judgments. Thus, the objects of our desire, those like us, reviled, become targets of our negative judgments. As another poster pointed out, this is not unique to gay men; animosity between men and women abounds. Certainly, the internet amplifies negative judgments; people, under the cover of anonymity, both gay and straight, say very negative things that they would not say to someone's face. Gay men attach less than the general population. Despite problems with divorce, heterosexual marriage remains very popular. Gay marriage, despite its press, is not very common. I'm not sure what the current estimates are, but my understanding is that about half of gay men do not couple--compared with ten percent of heterosexuals who do not marry. In conversations with many gay men over the years, I have heard a common complaint about how hard it is to find a suitable partner. Frequently, but not always, those seeking opposite sex relationships have the support of family and community. I think it rare for gay men to have support from one another or family to find a mate. A personal example, certainly not generalizable, is my experience on Chemistry.com. I think the site is a very fine attempt to help people date. I've had fifty matches with guys in my area. Only one person even wanted to meet, despite my expressing interest. I could interpret that as there being something wrong with me, but I think the explanation that is more likely is that most of the gay men on the site are wanting to date, but actually quite reluctant to do so. I don't know the rate at which these men select others to date, but from conversations with others, I tend to think that there's not a lot of dating happening (not talking about sex, talking about meeting others socially for the ultimate purpose of mate selection).
  • HndsmKansan

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    Oct 25, 2009 2:49 PM GMT
    realifedad said Often picky people are unhappy with themselves. What do you think?? Have you wondered about this issue yourself?



    Very interesting topic... and I've been accused of "being anal" a number of times. Its probably true, but perhaps not totally in the sense which you relate above.

    I'm a very structured person, too much so when I was younger. I had my days (even weekends) planned in advance. I expect alot out of myself as far as responsibilities, achievements and work ethic...being spontaneous isn't something that comes second nature.

    But I'm not critical of others, I expect it of myself. My bf will often remark, "God you are so anal with the yard". I've also gotten it from gay friends with regards to a project or efforts on a committee....

    Am I unhappy, absolutely not. I just expect much out of myself.. but what I've realized is how "balance" must always play a part in any heathy person.
    I'm much more relaxed now.....

    So much for my 3 cars being washed every weekend.... LOL
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    Oct 25, 2009 3:16 PM GMT
    I tend to agree with the OP but I don't think it's any different in real life. I have several close friends who seem to think it's their responsibility to assess my appearance and everyone else's. If a nose hair is dangling or my jeans are last year's model, they find it necessary to comment. Sitting at Starbucks, they relentlessly assess every man who comes in.

    I went shopping with a friend a few months ago and was trying to decide whether to buy a particular belt. I asked the friend's opinion and he said, "Personally, I can't stand belts like that, but it will probably look good on you since you have such a big ass." WTF?

    I've also said before that in my 20-plus years of writing opinion for a living, the most personal and cruelest responses have always been from gay men. (And I know several gay writers who report the identical experience.)

    If I were to hazard a guess, two things are at play. Because gay men typically hide their sexual desires for a long time -- I know this is changing -- they become hyper-vigilant, constantly on the lookout. (I might add that this same quality that is annoying in personal relationships often is quite useful in the workplace.)

    I've also found -- and this is also changing -- that gay men, especially those emerging from the closet, don't like for any other gay man to stand out by saying controversial things. To them, being gay is something that should be kept low key, if not completely hidden. To them, being gay means nothing but being sexually attracted to your own gender. The same people make a big deal out of people who stand out in Pride parades.

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    Oct 25, 2009 3:22 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    realifedad said Often picky people are unhappy with themselves. What do you think?? Have you wondered about this issue yourself?



    Very interesting topic... and I've been accused of "being anal" a number of times. Its probably true, but perhaps not totally in the sense which you relate above.

    I'm a very structured person, too much so when I was younger. I had my days (even weekends) planned in advance. I expect alot out of myself as far as responsibilities, achievements and work ethic...being spontaneous isn't something that comes second nature.

    But I'm not critical of others, I expect it of myself. My bf will often remark, "God you are so anal with the yard". I've also gotten it from gay friends with regards to a project or efforts on a committee....

    Am I unhappy, absolutely not. I just expect much out of myself.. but what I've realized is how "balance" must always play a part in any heathy person.
    I'm much more relaxed now.....

    So much for my 3 cars being washed every weekend.... LOL
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My God !!! you described what I used to be like to a tee, always had my time planned out, every evening, weekends, days off all lined up and even while watching a movie or TV, or talking to my kids I'd be making a list for tomorrows work, doing figures for a building project or something, I prided myself in multitasking and none of it bothered me except if I didn't get what I'd planned done. Then the pain came, the Neurosurgeon cut my throat and put that steel and 4 screws in my neck and I came out of the hospital not giving a shit about all those things above. LOL !!!! Looking back it just wasn't worth the trouble to reach and hold onto perfection. But HndsmKansan I wouldn't advise you get to close to a Neurosurgeons knife either. Ha !!!!!
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    Oct 25, 2009 4:14 PM GMT
    For a second there, I thought you were questioning why gay guys are literally anal, not figuratively speaking, ha ha


    Maybe someday
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    Oct 25, 2009 4:28 PM GMT
    realifedad said I know that's a generalization which is against the rules, but really !!! Look at the forums and my god we are so damn hard on each other and everyone around us. A few seem easygoing but generally we seem to exhibit an anal way of picking things/people apart that seems to set expectations unrealisticly high. Often picky people are unhappy with themselves. What do you think?? Have you wondered about this issue yourself?


    i agree....alot of these men need to be kicked in the nuts for the comments they make. But hey it makes good entertainment. For the most part i know for sure that the ones that often times caste judgment are/cannot do any better and only do things to try and make themselves feel better by making others unhappy. Sadly ive met quite allot of gay men like that. Like there was this soul train thread.....and the people were dancing and they had on all their vintage/retro clothes....one guy....whos is white by the way.. made a comment...."what are those"....and someone else after him answered "black people"...now why would he ask such a question...? To piss people off..it is what it is..you cant help them.
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    Oct 25, 2009 4:43 PM GMT



    tereseus1....... what?!?!?!?

    "Like there was this soul train thread.....and the people were dancing and they had on all their vintage/retro clothes....one guy....whos is white by the way.. made a comment...."what are those"....and someone else after him answered "black people"...now why would he ask such a question...? To piss people off..it is what it is..you cant help them."


    ...honestly, the guy asked "What are those things?" and the reply was,

    "Black people?" which was said in HUMOUR. The replier didn't know what the asker was referring to, so made the joke.

    The replier COULD have said, "what things are you referring to?" as the asker could have been referring to the hair-dos, the clothes or the shoes.

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    Oct 25, 2009 4:53 PM GMT
    ObsceneWish saidI tend to agree with the OP but I don't think it's any different in real life. I have several close friends who seem to think it's their responsibility to assess my appearance and everyone else's. If a nose hair is dangling or my jeans are last year's model, they find it necessary to comment. Sitting at Starbucks, they relentlessly assess every man who comes in.

    I went shopping with a friend a few months ago and was trying to decide whether to buy a particular belt. I asked the friend's opinion and he said, "Personally, I can't stand belts like that, but it will probably look good on you since you have such a big ass." WTF?

    I've also said before that in my 20-plus years of writing opinion for a living, the most personal and cruelest responses have always been from gay men. (And I know several gay writers who report the identical experience.)

    If I were to hazard a guess, two things are at play. Because gay men typically hide their sexual desires for a long time -- I know this is changing -- they become hyper-vigilant, constantly on the lookout. (I might add that this same quality that is annoying in personal relationships often is quite useful in the workplace.)

    I've also found -- and this is also changing -- that gay men, especially those emerging from the closet, don't like for any other gay man to stand out by saying controversial things. To them, being gay is something that should be kept low key, if not completely hidden. To them, being gay means nothing but being sexually attracted to your own gender. The same people make a big deal out of people who stand out in Pride parades.



    You're like, all smart and stuff!icon_wink.gif
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    Oct 25, 2009 5:31 PM GMT
    meninlove said


    tereseus1....... what?!?!?!?

    "Like there was this soul train thread.....and the people were dancing and they had on all their vintage/retro clothes....one guy....whos is white by the way.. made a comment...."what are those"....and someone else after him answered "black people"...now why would he ask such a question...? To piss people off..it is what it is..you cant help them."


    ...honestly, the guy asked "What are those things?" and the reply was,

    "Black people?" which was said in HUMOUR. The replier didn't know what the asker was referring to, so made the joke.

    The replier COULD have said, "what things are you referring to?" as the asker could have been referring to the hair-dos, the clothes or the shoes.



    im sorry...its the textualist behavior of mines. what i see/read i interpret for its true meaning.
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    Oct 25, 2009 6:16 PM GMT
    I've also found -- and this is also changing -- that gay men, especially those emerging from the closet, don't like for any other gay man to stand out by saying controversial things. To them, being gay is something that should be kept low key, if not completely hidden. To them, being gay means nothing but being sexually attracted to your own gender. The same people make a big deal out of people who stand out in Pride parades.

    Sometimes I think we, as gay men, like to make everything relate back to the fact that we're gay. Since I feel it's really unhealthy to do this, maybe this is what makes us neurotic and anal retentive.

    I chalk what you say above up to personality type. People who don't outright wear their sexuality on their sleeves are not always doing so by choice or because they are ashamed, they are called Type B personalities and we are roughly half of all gay men.

    I've had many discussions with gay and straight men and women, and there also seems to be a consensus about whether some, particularly gay men, act overtly/stereotypically homosexual in order to avoid having to discuss it. It is, after all, probably easier and you avoid many awkward situations.

    I suppose, for me, being gay isn't more than who I am sexually attracted to and, while it plays into my identity, it does not consume it. Like anything, it's about finding a balance and finding what is natural for you.

    I'm not sure what is meant by "controversial" up above. Gay men bringing up seedy topics in inappropriate situations has certainly made me wince multiple times before, but straight men and women also do the same thing. I wince when they do it as well. Or is "controversial" bringing up, say, Gay Rights issues or just general discussions of hanging out with a loved one amongst company who is possibly homophobic or intolerant? If so, I say fuck those people and continue your "controversial" discussion.

    Basically, I say be clearer and make less blanket generalizations. Not everyone has the natural tendency to blast into a room with cock jokes and fabulousness regardless of situation and environment, and not everyone should.

    Oh, and I seriously would not have any patience for your fatophobic friends.