For all of you who judge; Open relationships are not for you to understand, or get, or attempt to correct. What we all need to do is understand, that in our community, our world, it is there, and no one is to say anything about anyone in an open relationship but the people in them. As a single man on this site, it's annoying to read all these subtle judgement posts/threads about individuals in an open relationship or single people playing with people in one. Haven't you heard, to each his own???? I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying it's wrong. What I'm saying is let individuals handle their relationship their way and if you're foolish enough to fall for someone in an open relationship then you're the fool NOT them.
Do I believe in them for me? I dunno, I've never been put in that situation, I'll cross that road if it ever comes up.
Have I been with individuals in an open relationship? Yes; knowingly and not knowingly. It happens, not everyone is honest.
Is it wrong? We don't know, ask the ones in THAT relationship and stop passing judgement on their relationship.
as long as the societal norm engenders a christian upbringing with a list of approved and unapproved items regarding sex. there will always be this form of sometimes very nasty judgement being passed.
If those who are in them like it. I love it for them.It would never work for me I'm selfish!
You if a person does not want to be judged on your behavior then perhaps...just perhaps they should not be so vocal about...I'm just saying.
If something is going to fly out of your mouth then you better be prepared for opinions that or either supportive or non-supportive.
It's rather silly for someone to think once they disclose this information in mix-company and even on the site, that they feel we as men are not going to have strong opinions about the subject.
I find it offensive when I get asked if I would ever be in an open relationship when I respond that I could never do it, that some narrow minded jerk who is one tries to CONVERT ME!!!!!
I hear theings like you should try. You don't know what you're missing, How could you just want to be with just one guy.
I finally had to say dude BACK OFF! YOU DO YOU AND LET ME DO ME! We both will be the better for it!
It's fine to say live and let live...until someone posts a thread -involving an open relationship issue or about an affair with a married man- asking for feedback. THEN all the nuances of context and personal boundaries as defined individually enter the assessment.
If folks would like to live and be left to live, they're better off not asking others for their opinions.
There are some situations where it works, I've seen more relationships fail when they try to implement or sustain long term 'openness'. Perhaps it isn't about being open maybe it's because almost 50% of "marriages" fail... why would the gay community be any different, open or not?
My thought is not a judgment of whether it is a legitimate, respectable form of a relationship. My thought is that when navigating the waters of an open relationship, *no matter what your place in it is*, it is something that should absolutely not be done flippantly.
Having an open relationship or hooking up regularly with someone who does is exponentially more work and takes a lot more emotional honesty and psychological wherewithal than most people have.
over_and_over saidHaving an open relationship or hooking up regularly with someone who does is exponentially more work and takes a lot more emotional honesty and psychological wherewithal than most people have.
being honest about everything from the get-go makes it pretty easy. that which is obvious that i didn't say, need not be said.
over_and_over saidHaving an open relationship or hooking up regularly with someone who does is exponentially more work and takes a lot more emotional honesty and psychological wherewithal than most people have.
being honest about everything from the get-go makes it pretty easy. that which is obvious that i didn't say, need not be said.
Relationships are work, hard work. And an open relationship requires an increased level of emotional accountability. I'm not negating the efficacy of an open relationship when properly executed. I'm trying to articulate that when a third party enters into the realms of what is traditionally a dyad, the potential for complications increases... exponentially. Unfortunately, honesty (which one assumes is obviously inherent in all relationships but *isn't) is the crux of the what we are talking about. If indeed everyone was honest then this thread would be obsolete.
If you have that honesty, I applaud you. But no relationship, open or otherwise is as that "easy" all the time.
over_and_over saidHaving an open relationship or hooking up regularly with someone who does is exponentially more work and takes a lot more emotional honesty and psychological wherewithal than most people have.
being honest about everything from the get-go makes it pretty easy. that which is obvious that i didn't say, need not be said.
Relationships are work, hard work. And an open relationship requires an increased level of emotional accountability. I'm not negating the efficacy of an open relationship when properly executed. I'm trying to articulate that when a third party enters into the realms of what is traditionally a dyad, the potential for complications increases... exponentially. Unfortunately, honesty (which one assumes is obviously inherent in all relationships but *isn't) is the crux of the what we are talking about. If indeed everyone was honest then this thread would be obsolete.
If you have that honesty, I applaud you. But no relationship, open or otherwise is as that "easy" all the time.
In a successful open relationship, it's not the trust or honesty that is missing it's understanding that there is a BIG diffrence between sex and love and most men have different sex drives. I'm a realist. Most/ not ALL /so called monogamous relationships are not, OR one partner lives sexually unsatisfied. So many men have been cheated on or worse have gotten an std or hiv from a monogamous relationship. I am not a jealous person and neither is my guy. I had a friend tell me I could never do what you guys do because I couldn't share my man with anyone in that way, meanwhile he has cheated on him at least 3 times I know of-go figure?? I have another friend who doesn't believe in an open relationship, but when he isn't gettin it they fight have a mini break up, he has sex with another guy, and then get back together-so they are both sharing their men just not telling them!!!
I have a few friends that are in open relationships and they are doing great! I am not sure if I could handle one, but I do not criticize anyone who is doing it.
MikemikeMike said In a successful open relationship, it's not the trust or honesty that is missing it's understanding that there is a BIG diffrence between sex and love and most men have different sex drives. I'm a realist. Most/ not ALL /so called monogamous relationships are not, OR one partner lives sexually unsatisfied. So many men have been cheated on or worse have gotten an std or hiv from a monogamous relationship. I am not a jealous person and neither is my guy. I had a friend tell me I could never do what you guys do because I couldn't share my man with anyone in that way, meanwhile he has cheated on him at least 3 times I know of-go figure?? I have another friend who doesn't believe in an open relationship, but when he isn't gettin it they fight have a mini break up, he has sex with another guy, and then get back together-so they are both sharing their men just not telling them!!!
I think its amazing to make a relationship work on any level and that isn't to imply I don't have respect for relationships that don't work. I seem to be a magnet for guys in open relationships, maybe it's because there are so many of them in SF, I dunno. As the third party it always seemed like I was removed from their marital issues but after a few months it didn't stay that way and I felt like I was damaging the happiness of others.
I've tried the FWB with guys in open relationships multiple times with not so fun outcomes. I've resolved to stay single, have less sex and seek out unattached men... it makes my life so much less complicated.
Until recently, was rather hard line against getting with person in relationship. Have ameliorated my stance, somewhat. Would consider, BUT... LET ME KNOW AHEAD OF TIME SO I DON'T MAKE A FUCKING FOOL OF MYSELF, O.K.?
bigmusclepete saidUntil recently, was rather hard line against getting with person in relationship. Have ameliorated my stance, somewhat. Would consider, BUT... LET ME KNOW AHEAD OF TIME SO I DON'T MAKE A FUCKING FOOL OF MYSELF, O.K.?
I know right?! I'm perfectly capable of making a fool of myself on my own... I really don't need any assistance.
over_and_over saidRelationships are work, hard work. And an open relationship requires an increased level of emotional accountability. I'm not negating the efficacy of an open relationship when properly executed. I'm trying to articulate that when a third party enters into the realms of what is traditionally a dyad, the potential for complications increases... exponentially. Unfortunately, honesty (which one assumes is obviously inherent in all relationships but *isn't) is the crux of the what we are talking about. If indeed everyone was honest then this thread would be obsolete.
If you have that honesty, I applaud you. But no relationship, open or otherwise is as that "easy" all the time.
all my previous relationships were hard work. this one hasn't been hard in the slightest and years into it i'm still wondering what rabbit hole i fell down. we have oodles of love and fun with each other and once in a while we add extra flavor.
no hard work, no fights, no break up and make up scenes.
FirefighterBlu3 saidall my previous relationships were hard work. this one hasn't been hard in the slightest and years into it i'm still wondering what rabbit hole i fell down. we have oodles of love and fun with each other and once in a while we add extra flavor. no hard work, no fights, no break up and make up scenes. sometimes the perfect guy does come along
Hang on to that... what you have is not the norm and enviable from any perspective. Very, very enviable...
Hey, they are my thoughts and I'm free to pass judgement as much as I like
One of the funniest things I've read all week -- anywhere -- is a gay man posting on a gay site that he thinks the way somebody lives his life or manages his relationship is "immoral." Seriously. You missed your calling as a comedian.
Hey, they are my thoughts and I'm free to pass judgement as much as I like
True! They are your thoughts, and you are entitled to your opinion. I guess I agree.
They never made sense to me as to why be in the relationship if you need to go outside the box. Isnt a relationship between 2 people?
UGH!! DJ you're a cool guy, I like your posts. But many (and I mean MANY) define a relationship as between a man and a woman ONLY. Does that make sense to you? I think each relationship is defined only by the people who are in it.
Hey, they are my thoughts and I'm free to pass judgement as much as I like
True! They are your thoughts, and you are entitled to your opinion. I guess I agree.
They never made sense to me as to why be in the relationship if you need to go outside the box. Isnt a relationship between 2 people?
UGH!! DJ you're a cool guy, I like your posts. But many (and I mean MANY) define a relationship as between a man and a woman ONLY. Does that make sense to you? I think each relationship is defined only by the people who are in it.
wrestlervic saidNothing says "I love you" more than "Hey, looking at this hot guy on the web. Be with you in a minute honey."
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OR honey be back in an hour. But like some of the other guys will argue, it DOES work for some. And brings something to their relationships. I dont understand it, but hey cheers to them!
The highest form of love is unconditional. My partner and I have been together for 13 years and more in love today then ever. But, lets face it, we're both guys and if he wants to have some fun, more power to him. I know I'm the one he'll be coming home to. To be fair, neither one of us are the type of people to jump from bed to bed. There is a BIG difference between love and lust
grnranger99 saidThe highest form of love is unconditional. My partner and I have been together for 13 years and more in love today then ever. But, lets face it, we're both guys and if he wants to have some fun, more power to him. I know I'm the one he'll be coming home to. To be fair, neither one of us are the type of people to jump from bed to bed. There is a BIG difference between love and lust
Right on. For me, good sex is a necessary part of love. Love isn't a necessary part of good sex. That does not mean that I can't imagine there are tons of very, very happy couples who will be together forever but who don't have sex with each often -- or at all. So what? Be happy. If both sides are in agreement on it and it works for them, cool.
The line is crossed when somebody gets hurt. Cheating hurts somebody. That's when I do get judgmental. Open means open.
True that djdorchester2 - "Open is open." and we'll add that as some are saying some monogamous relationships aren't all that monogamous, some open relationships aren't all that open (as in honest w/the third party or each other).
Of the open relationship-ers we know, the ones that operate like FireFighterBlue's are the ones that last, are stable (yes, stable) and from what we see, very happy.
The straight world is full of open relationships too, always have been. Back when I was little, Mom and Dad were invited to wife swapping parties in our little town in Manitoba. Usually 20 to thirty couples. The men put their keys in a large bowl. The women picked through them like party favours. Swingin'! lol, Mom and Dad were horrified and intrigued at the same time.
Those who approve/disapprove of open/closed relationships both judge and make negative statements. Evidence of which is shown in several posts above. This is most surprising from those in open relationships because one would assume you're "open" in your thinking.
I am so blessed to have two wonderful men who love me, one for 20 years and the other for just over 10 years. I'm not in an open relationship, it's a closed one.
But I love me two men, albeit for diffrent reasons, and one being an American, and the other a Russian, they are two very diffrent people too.
over_and_over said....single with the love of many, that's the way this puppy runs. That way I can dance naked in my apartment whenever I want.
So can I. I walk around naked all the time. We don't live in the same house. We each have our own. In my circumstance, I don't hook up with just anyone outside our relationship we hardly do. If we do he is there too. We havent been with anyone on RJ.. In my opinion open relationships become monogamous with age. Don't knock till you try it.
For those with holier than thou attitudes about open relationships--"he who is free from sin cast the first stone"
Open relationships can be confusing and disturbing to a single guy. I wish I never had to deal with another couple hitting on me again. The only guys that I want to date or be with are single guys that are emotionally and socially available. I state that on most of my profiles yet I constantly have to deflect propositions from the open relationship couples.
Do I have friends that are in an open relationship? Sure. Do I have a problem with that? Not at all. Do I ever want to get involved with any of them while they're in a relationship? No.
I am not passing moral judgement and I think open relationship couples should get over it if they think when a single guy wants nothing to do with them sexually that it has to do with morals.
It is true, I don't get it. I have had LTR's and I have always been faithful and loyal with little effort. An open relationship is not for me and if I had to be honest, most guys that are in an open relationship that have hit on me for one on one sex usually tries to ploy me with the story of how their open relationship is so miserable. I'm not sure if this is just a story to get me into bed, or if it is the truth, but there you have it.
I had an open relationship when I was first out in 1979. At that time, open relationships were considered the way to go. What I realized as I went along was that we as a couple were fine, others got hurt. I lean toward monogamy as a better fit for me. Will Handy, who was a gay therapist in Madison at the time, was ok with either way couples decided to go, but said it was important that the monogamous and open-minded not get together.
Main Entry: reˇlaˇtionˇship Pronunciation: -shən-ˌship Function: noun Date: 1741
1 : the state of being related or interrelated 2 : the relation connecting or binding participants in a relationship: as a : kinship b : a specific instance or type of kinship 3 a : a state of affairs existing between those having relations or dealings b : a romantic or passionate attachment
No where in this definition does it state between 2 people specifically, THAT definition is put on by us/you/them.
Thanks for sharing everyone, good, bad and/or indifferent. I believe if you've never been in one don't assume or judge that it's wrong. I don't believe it's immoral if the ones in the relationship have defined their relationship and how it;s to work. And for those who seek advice when they find themselves involved with someone in an open relationship, be prepared for the onslaught!
over_and_over said....single with the love of many, that's the way this puppy runs. That way I can dance naked in my apartment whenever I want.
I get to this this too, albeit it in a house, and now the shrubs in the garden are taking off, soon outside too.
But even with two husbands I have independence. Sometimes I fly interstate for lunch, and maybe visit the zoo, and home again that night, and sometimes no-one even knows, and the only thing I may get in trouble for, is not saying anything, because if something was to happen, no-one would know.
Main Entry: reˇlaˇtionˇship Pronunciation: -shən-ˌship Function: noun Date: 1741
1 : the state of being related or interrelated 2 : the relation connecting or binding participants in a relationship: as a : kinship b : a specific instance or type of kinship 3 a : a state of affairs existing between those having relations or dealings b : a romantic or passionate attachment
No where in this definition does it state between 2 people specifically, THAT definition is put on by us/you/them.
Thanks for sharing everyone, good, bad and/or indifferent. I believe if you've never been in one don't assume or judge that it's wrong. I don't believe it's immoral if the ones in the relationship have defined their relationship and how it;s to work. And for those who seek advice when they find themselves involved with someone in an open relationship, be prepared for the onslaught!
It's cool that you told everyone what you think, that doesn't make you any more right than anyone else and it doesn't make anyone any more wrong. If you are going to come on here and ask for coments and advice then you should be able to take what people say, otherwise there is a reason that the word private is in "Private Life" ! If you don't want your private life to become fodder for public consumption, don't fill the trough and call the animals to eat ! If you don't like what you're getting you don't need to be insulting and try and treat people like mindless idiots! Maybe you should look in the mirror, you're the mindless idiot who started this.
meninlove said True that djdorchester2 - "Open is open." and we'll add that as some are saying some monogamous relationships aren't all that monogamous, some open relationships aren't all that open (as in honest w/the third party or each other).
Of the open relationship-ers we know, the ones that operate like FireFighterBlue's are the ones that last, are stable (yes, stable) and from what we see, very happy.
The straight world is full of open relationships too, always have been. Back when I was little, Mom and Dad were invited to wife swapping parties in our little town in Manitoba. Usually 20 to thirty couples. The men put their keys in a large bowl. The women picked through them like party favours. Swingin'! lol, Mom and Dad were horrified and intrigued at the same time.
-Doug
And I, too, know more than a few straight couples that are doing similar things today.
I chuckle every time I read someone's comments about this being primarily a gay issue. It's a human issue. People held in high regard by society start wars, kill the innocent, pray to false gods, lie and steal from their fellow man. To think they don't cheat on their spouses or don't have an arrangement with their spouse that they may do so, is ludicrous.
Serial monogamy isn't unheard of in the animal kingdom. There are a few avian species known to have a single sexual partner in their lifetimes, but it is rare. On the other hand, it is unheard of within primate species. Owl monkeys, which are found in Argentina, were thought to be the only monogamous primate in the world. IMO, they thought this b/c owl monkeys are nocturnal (the only nocturnal new world monkey), which makes it difficult to observe them when they're most active. But researchers recently discovered the evening activities of some closely watched pairs happened to include both the male and female monkeys "swinging" in the trees ... and you know what I'm talking about.
Celticmusl saidOpen relationships can be confusing and disturbing to a single guy. I wish I never had to deal with another couple hitting on me again. The only guys that I want to date or be with are single guys that are emotionally and socially available.
Thank you. This is where a lot of the 'conflict in disagreement' appears in discussions such as this.
Instead of bemoaning that someone is judgmental of an open relationship, consider that they'd like to meet someone with whom they too might one day have an open relationships. Otherwise, it just become me stealing your boyfriend.
exactly, I got into a big debate/argument once with a married friend about I how I feel monogamy is socialized and is not a natural norm for humanity. He got so pissed about it and started screaming which was funny because he has cheated on his wife so many times its not even funny.
I agree that there needs to be more understanding, because so many people naturally equate committed with monogamy and assume that a couple in an open relationship aren't truly in love.
If a couple has an agreement that they can each go off and do what they want to do, then I don't look down on that guy, chick, or the spouses they may have on the side. Its when a guy is blatantly lying to his partner that I think it becomes a little shameful.
Whatever boundaries and agreements are between a couple, are between a couple and I'm not judging the choices anyone makes.
I 'myself' couldn't enter into an open relationship. However, I would never end things because of an *occasional* indiscretion. I don't believe that one person has the right to possess the sexuality of another or hold reign over it. Things happen, situations arise and I get monogamy is an allegory.
What I would have a hard time doing is giving my significant other license to pursue other ongoing sexual relationships. I know what I like sexually and I only really want to be with a guy who is compatible that way. If we aren't compatible... then he and I shouldn't be together.
Given the two models of monogamy and open relationship, I think I would opt for something that is more in the middle. Something "monogamish". Monogamy without the social or relationship fallout for someone occasionally going off course, but with the clear understanding that seeking out other sexual relationships is not part of that course.
over_and_over said Given the two models of monogamy and open relationship, I think I would opt for something that is more in the middle. Something "monogamish". Monogamy without the social or relationship fallout for someone occasionally going off course, but with the clear understanding that seeking out other sexual relationships is not part of that course. .
over_and_over said....single with the love of many, that's the way this puppy runs. That way I can dance naked in my apartment whenever I want.
So can I. I walk around naked all the time. We don't live in the same house. We each have our own. In my circumstance, I don't hook up with just anyone outside our relationship we hardly do. If we do he is there too. We havent been with anyone on RJ.. In my opinion open relationships become monogamous with age. Don't knock till you try it. For those with holier than thou attitudes about open relationships--"he who is free from sin cast the first stone"
It wasn't a judgment it was my perspective. An opinion different from yours is just that "an opinion", I understand you get a lot of flack for your choice of relationship style. But it doesn't mean everyone is out to get you, so preach your sin and stone casting to someone else. I wasn't knocking, I was saying *I like being single* As far as trying it... thanks for the insight, but I'm not ready to drink the Kool Aid.
Serial monogamy isn't unheard of in the animal kingdom. There are a few avian species known to have a single sexual partner in their lifetimes, but it is rare. On the other hand, it is unheard of within primate species. Owl monkeys, which are found in Argentina, were thought to be the only monogamous primate in the world. IMO, they thought this b/c owl monkeys are nocturnal (the only nocturnal new world monkey), which makes it difficult to observe them when they're most active. But researchers recently discovered the evening activities of some closely watched pairs happened to include both the male and female monkeys "swinging" in the trees ... and you know what I'm talking about.
Those funky monkeys [/quote]
There are numerous species that are monogamous. In terms of percentages they might be a minority of species, but it happens, and for survival reasons.
QUOTING FROM AN ARTICLE "In a beaver family, there is a strong need for cooperation to maintain their dams and pools, that's why beaver social units are so tight. Thus, monogamy evolved in situations where young need a better cooperation of both parents in raising them.
That's why humans, with their long childhood, form monogamous pairs."
I know most folks nowadays think that we as humans should not be monogamous, or we were "built" to fool around, but that is not the case. Monogamy would have never taken place over our many centuries if there was not something intrinsic and hereditary about it. Maybe society has become a safer place(or is perceived as being safer) and that is why monogamy is not in vogue right now.
If you took some Sociology classes you might also already know that the "dyad" is the strongest social group for us humans, this is not just a coincidence.
Hey, they are my thoughts and I'm free to pass judgement as much as I like
as some people say gay is wrong and immoral too! be open mind people
They are free to pass judgement as well. And I am just as free not to take it on.
What is this open minded thing you are talking about? Is there ever a case when you are not supposed to be open minded?
I don't have to be open minded about this. Not one bit!
You don't have to be open-minded about your own relationships -- have whatever kind you want with anybody you want. But to call it immoral for others is hypocrisy at its worst. Plain and simple!
Hey, they are my thoughts and I'm free to pass judgement as much as I like
as some people say gay is wrong and immoral too! be open mind people
They are free to pass judgement as well. And I am just as free not to take it on.
What is this open minded thing you are talking about? Is there ever a case when you are not supposed to be open minded?
I don't have to be open minded about this. Not one bit!
You don't have to be open-minded about your own relationships -- have whatever kind you want with anybody you want. But to call it immoral for others is hypocrisy at its worst. Plain and simple!
It would be hypocrisy if he called it immoral and he himself was in an open relationship. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he cannot for himself decide which activities are moral or immoral based upon his own beliefs.
If I say I believe stealing is immoral, it doesn't mean I am being a hypocrite because I am gay and some people would think my lifestyle is immoral.
Celticmusl saidIt would be hypocrisy if he called it immoral and he himself was in an open relationship. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he cannot for himself decide which activities are moral or immoral based upon his own beliefs.
If I say I believe stealing is immoral, it doesn't mean I am being a hypocrite because I am gay and some people would think my lifestyle is immoral.
Thank you
Perhaps he does intend to say that being gay is immoral in his opinion
It all really depends on what you and your partner are comfortable with in your relationship. Everyone is going ot have different boundaries. You have to work together to make sure that you understnad the boundaries and try not to cross them.
Celticmusl saidIt would be hypocrisy if he called it immoral and he himself was in an open relationship. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he cannot for himself decide which activities are moral or immoral based upon his own beliefs.
If I say I believe stealing is immoral, it doesn't mean I am being a hypocrite because I am gay and some people would think my lifestyle is immoral.
Thank you
Perhaps he does intend to say that being gay is immoral in his opinion
He is a hypocrite because he asks if there is ever a case when you are NOT supposed to be open minded. Then he says: "I don't have to be open minded about this. Not one bit!"
The level of intolerance that this thread has revealed is unbelievable.
Celticmusl saidIt would be hypocrisy if he called it immoral and he himself was in an open relationship. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he cannot for himself decide which activities are moral or immoral based upon his own beliefs.
If I say I believe stealing is immoral, it doesn't mean I am being a hypocrite because I am gay and some people would think my lifestyle is immoral.
Thank you
Perhaps he does intend to say that being gay is immoral in his opinion
He is a hypocrite because he asks if there is ever a case when you are NOT supposed to be open minded. Then he says: "I don't have to be open minded about this. Not one bit!"
The level of intolerance that this thread has revealed is unbelievable.
Clearly you don't understand the concept of hypocrisy
Celticmusl saidIt would be hypocrisy if he called it immoral and he himself was in an open relationship. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he cannot for himself decide which activities are moral or immoral based upon his own beliefs.
If I say I believe stealing is immoral, it doesn't mean I am being a hypocrite because I am gay and some people would think my lifestyle is immoral.
Thank you
Perhaps he does intend to say that being gay is immoral in his opinion
Main Entry: reˇlaˇtionˇship Pronunciation: -shən-ˌship Function: noun Date: 1741
1 : the state of being related or interrelated 2 : the relation connecting or binding participants in a relationship: as a : kinship b : a specific instance or type of kinship 3 a : a state of affairs existing between those having relations or dealings b : a romantic or passionate attachment
No where in this definition does it state between 2 people specifically, THAT definition is put on by us/you/them.
Thanks for sharing everyone, good, bad and/or indifferent. I believe if you've never been in one don't assume or judge that it's wrong. I don't believe it's immoral if the ones in the relationship have defined their relationship and how it;s to work. And for those who seek advice when they find themselves involved with someone in an open relationship, be prepared for the onslaught!
It's cool that you told everyone what you think, that doesn't make you any more right than anyone else and it doesn't make anyone any more wrong. If you are going to come on here and ask for coments and advice then you should be able to take what people say, otherwise there is a reason that the word private is in "Private Life" ! If you don't want your private life to become fodder for public consumption, don't fill the trough and call the animals to eat ! If you don't like what you're getting you don't need to be insulting and try and treat people like mindless idiots! Maybe you should look in the mirror, you're the mindless idiot who started this.
For arguments sake, let's refrain from name calling. I'm not here to call anyone out on anything. My ONLY argument about the whole issue is that there seems to be this negative outlook towards open relationships and all I'm wanting to do is get feedback on the topic as well as get an understanding why people seem ti believe it's SO wrong/immoral or what have you. I've never been in a relationship where the topic came up. I do have friends that are open in their relationships however that is their decision & their judgement call no one else's is what I'm getting at.
To quote you; "if you don't want your private life to become fodder for public consumption, don't fill the trough and call the animals to eat!" I second this thought!
"If you don't like what you're getting you don't need to be insulting..." I believe you may have overlooked something, I'm grateful that people shared their thoughts/beliefs I'm not wanting to insult anyone or belittle them, just feeling the issue out and why people seem so judgemental towards people in an open relationship.
Halfstep said there needs to be more understanding, because so many people naturally equate committed with monogamy and assume that a couple in an open relationship aren't truly in love.
If a couple has an agreement that they can each go off and do what they want to do, then I don't look down on that guy, chick, or the spouses they may have on the side. Its when a guy is blatantly lying to his partner that I think it becomes a little shameful.
This is all I am wanting to get across! Thanks Halfstep!
Celticmusl saidIt would be hypocrisy if he called it immoral and he himself was in an open relationship. Just because he is gay doesn't mean that he cannot for himself decide which activities are moral or immoral based upon his own beliefs.
If I say I believe stealing is immoral, it doesn't mean I am being a hypocrite because I am gay and some people would think my lifestyle is immoral.
Thank you
Perhaps he does intend to say that being gay is immoral in his opinion
Would that bother you?
Scroll up and read my post of 2:21PM
But if you were to do that- well it would paint you as being a hypocrite
Celticmusl said There are numerous species that are monogamous. In terms of percentages they might be a minority of species, but it happens, and for survival reasons.
QUOTING FROM AN ARTICLE "In a beaver family, there is a strong need for cooperation to maintain their dams and pools, that's why beaver social units are so tight. Thus, monogamy evolved in situations where young need a better cooperation of both parents in raising them.
That's why humans, with their long childhood, form monogamous pairs."
I know most folks nowadays think that we as humans should not be monogamous, or we were "built" to fool around, but that is not the case. Monogamy would have never taken place over our many centuries if there was not something intrinsic and hereditary about it. Maybe society has become a safer place(or is perceived as being safer) and that is why monogamy is not in vogue right now.
If you took some Sociology classes you might also already know that the "dyad" is the strongest social group for us humans, this is not just a coincidence.
A few things: 1) Pairing in the animal kingdom is quite common. Serial monogamy isn't. If you're talking about marriage, that doesn't mean it's a monogamous one. It's a matter of survival; one that doesn't require monogamy to work as long as there's a mutual understanding that lust does not equate to love. 2) Please provide a link to the article you're citing. I'd like to read it in its entirety. You wrote that monogamy is not in vogue right now. What? As if it's a fad ... like Mylie Cyrus or wearing loose-fitting trousers that show your ass crack? Polyamory is not in vogue, either. 3) Yes, a dyad is a strong social group. It's not the strongest, but it's up there. Read the book, Crowds and Power. Real power and strength comes not in pairs, but in masses. The good of the many outweighs the good of the one (or two, as in the case of marriage). I've included a link for you. You should read it. It's very informative: http://tinyurl.com/yle3vl9
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
That's the thing, I wasn't looking for an answer. Just sharing a belief of mine (that people in their relationship own & operate their way, no one else's.) and feeling out way the passing of judgement on open relationships in general. Guess it didn't come across that way huh???
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
That's the thing, I wasn't looking for an answer. Just sharing a belief of mine (that people in their relationship own & operate their way, no one else's.) and feeling out way the passing of judgement on open relationships in general. Guess it didn't come across that way huh???
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
Idk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
That's the thing, I wasn't looking for an answer. Just sharing a belief of mine (that people in their relationship own & operate their way, no one else's.) and feeling out way the passing of judgement on open relationships in general. Guess it didn't come across that way huh???
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
Intolerance is the one word definition to summarize it. It just seems that over the years on these threads the issue of open relationships always comes under fire when no one really knows why there is an open relationship in the first place except for the ones in that relationship and it shouldn't matter why they are in one, whether it's a straight or gay relationship.
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
That's the thing, I wasn't looking for an answer. Just sharing a belief of mine (that people in their relationship own & operate their way, no one else's.) and feeling out way the passing of judgement on open relationships in general. Guess it didn't come across that way huh???
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
I clearly own up my position that I think they are immoral.
Other posters said that these type of relationships are not for them that they just prefer monogamy.
The interesting thing is that those who favor multiple partner type relationshipd tarred us with the same brush of judgemental yada yada yada
If you are so comfortable in your multiple partner relationships why do you care what anyone else thinks? Why do you require the validation? Why do you think someone is being judgemental just because they do not agree with your relationship choice? Doesn't anyone have the freedom to disagree? Must we all march to the same drum?
I ask again - when is it the correct time to not be "open minded"
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Not to pick on you DrobUA, however your statement/question is one example that I'm talking about. Why does it have to be so Black & White? Why is the assumption that there is no complete satisfaction? Couldn't there be more than just a one-on-one/traditional/expected type of relationship? I mean, here's one, what about a triad? Is that wrong? Is that immoral? Just thoughts....
Again, not picking on you DrobUA and this is not meant to attack your response, it just fit.
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
That's the thing, I wasn't looking for an answer. Just sharing a belief of mine (that people in their relationship own & operate their way, no one else's.) and feeling out way the passing of judgement on open relationships in general. Guess it didn't come across that way huh???
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
I clearly own up my position that I think they are immoral.
Other posters said that these type of relationships are not for them that they just prefer monogamy.
The interesting thing is that those who favor multiple partner type relationshipd tarred us with the same brush of judgemental yada yada yada
If you are so comfortable in your multiple partner relationships why do you care what anyone else thinks? Why do you require the validation? Why do you think someone is being judgemental just because they do not agree with your relationship choice? Doesn't anyone have the freedom to disagree? Must we all march to the same drum?
I ask again - when is it the correct time to not be "open minded"
I appreciate your point of view Blondizgd, really! I mean, one thing is to have your belief system in place the way that you do and the other is to continually put down others for believing the way that they do. So from one end of the spectrum to other, to each his own.
And when is it the correct time to not be "open minded"? Well that's up to you. To him. To the both of you, in the case of this issue.
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
Now I know you have got to be joking with this equivocation.
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
Now I know you have got to be joking with this equivocation.
Nope. I'm not. I don't care if you are in a one-partner relationship. I don't care if it's with a woman or a man. I don't care if you are in a three-way relationship with a man AND a woman. I don't care if you're married or if you're just having loveless sex because you're horny. I care when you start calling other people's choices immoral. Are you free to express your opinion? Sure. I'm a journalist, free speech is basic. But I'll call you out for your intolerance. I'll be relentless about it. Expect it and move on.
djdorchester2 saidWell, a1972guy, you got your answer.
Yes, it did -- we're on the same page. You wanted to know why people pass judgement on open relationships. The answer is that people believe the way they choose to live is the way everybody should live. Thus, banning of gay marriage in California and attempts to do it elsewhere. This is fundamentally no different. In a word: intolerance.
Now I know you have got to be joking with this equivocation.
Nope. I'm not. I don't care if you are in a one-partner relationship. I don't care if it's with a woman or a man. I don't care if you are in a three-way relationship with a man AND a woman. I don't care if you're married or if you're just having loveless sex because you're horny. I care when you start calling other people's choices immoral. Are you free to express your opinion? Sure. I'm a journalist, free speech is basic. But I'll call you out for your intolerance. I'll be relentless about it. Expect it and move on.
You are funny. Well, you do have the freedom to call anything you like judgemental and intolerant.
Doesn't someone invariably end-up getting hurt, a lot sooner and a lot more systematically than in ordinary relationships? I thought the documentary "Three of hearts: A postmodern family" was quite revealing in that respect.
I don't believe there is anything unethical about open relationships, provided they are grounded in honesty. However, they have always struck me as an expression of comfort and convenience, rather than passion, deep affection and oneness.
Which brings us to what is really and truly at issue here, the essence of love ...and the fact that most of us are apprehensive about being made to feel powerless, vulnerable and inadequate, as is feared would be the case in the context of an open relationship where all parties might not be on equal footing in terms of the interest they have in one another.
It's possible, too, that some would find such an arrangement distasteful by mere virtue of its perceived easy and self-indulgent nature. And rightfully or wrongfully, hedonism has often been associated with a breakdown in moral integrity.
The question is, then, what can be achieved by an open relationship and at what expense?
I personally can't help but doubt that the intensity of the feelings involved would ever equate those that bind together individuals who call each another soulmates.
seeker213 saidDoesn't someone invariably end-up getting hurt, a lot sooner and a lot more systematically than in ordinary relationships? I thought the documentary "Three of hearts: A postmodern family" was quite revealing in that respect.
I don't believe there is anything unethical about open relationships, provided they are grounded in honesty. However, they have always struck me as an expression of comfort and convenience, rather than passion, deep affection and oneness.
Which brings us to what is really and truly at issue here, the essence of love ...and the fact that most of us are apprehensive about being made to feel powerless, vulnerable and inadequate, as is feared would be the case in the context of an open relationship where all parties might not be on equal footing in terms of the interest they have in one another.
It's possible, too, that some would find such an arrangement distasteful by mere virtue of its perceived easy and self-indulgent nature. And rightfully or wrongfully, hedonism has often been associated with a breakdown in moral integrity.
The question is, then, what can be achieved by an open relationship and at what expense?
I personally can't help but doubt that the intensity of the feelings involved would ever equate those that bind together individuals who call each another soulmates.
And why settle for less?
This is a great, thoughtful post. Open relationships are not for everybody -- so much can go wrong. But they do work for many people. This is not necessarily me, but just thinking with my keyboard... One reason many people struggle to build LTRs is because they worry about losing their independence. They want to share their life with somebody, but not lose themselves completely in it. And there are many, many ways to maintain independence and still have a perfectly healthy, happy, and permanent relationship -- one of those may be an honest arrangement that includes being open to other partners. Maybe it's a way of ensuring trust between them. I don't know. I can think of many ways in which an open relationship can work -- who knows, maybe even strengthen a couple.
I had a friend a while back who had a boyfriend but was bisexual and his partner allowed him to play with women. In his words, "I'll never have a vagina or fun bags, why would I deny him opportunities to play?" Last I talked to them, they were still happily partnered.
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
I wasn't judging I was asking a question, which neither of you answered. All you do is look at my age. Who's doing the judging?
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
I wasn't judging I was asking a question, which neither of you answered. All you do is look at my age. Who's doing the judging?
DrobUA, I wasn't judging you. I was reiterating Tappers statement and asking if ageism is a factor in the judging of open relationships.......
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
I wasn't judging I was asking a question, which neither of you answered. All you do is look at my age. Who's doing the judging?
Here's an attempt at an answer. Sex isn't the only factor in a relationship. There are so many other factors that go into compatibility. Couples don't have to be 100% compatible to be crazy in love in a forever kind of way. Maybe this is a badly oversimplified example, but a couple may be 100% compatible except that one loves to skydive and the other loves his knitting classes. So.... maybe one can go skydiving while the other knits some mittens?
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
I wasn't judging I was asking a question, which neither of you answered. All you do is look at my age. Who's doing the judging?
Here's an attempt at an answer. Sex isn't the only factor in a relationship. There are so many other factors that go into compatibility. Couples don't have to be 100% compatible to be crazy in love in a forever kind of way. Maybe this is a badly oversimplified example, but a couple may be 100% compatible except that one loves to skydive and the other loves his knitting classes. So.... maybe one can go skydiving while the other knits some mittens?
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
I wasn't judging I was asking a question, which neither of you answered. All you do is look at my age. Who's doing the judging?
Here's an attempt at an answer. Sex isn't the only factor in a relationship. There are so many other factors that go into compatibility. Couples don't have to be 100% compatible to be crazy in love in a forever kind of way. Maybe this is a badly oversimplified example, but a couple may be 100% compatible except that one loves to skydive and the other loves his knitting classes. So.... maybe one can go skydiving while the other knits some mittens?
When people refer to an open relationship aren't they referring to getting sex from a third party? They aren't talking about skydiving and knitting. So you are saying that two people love each other but aren't sexually satisfied with each other... to me that sounds like friendship not a relationship.
Who cares. Ha ha. Live and let live. I've been monogamous in my relationship but not with my eyes. Ha ha. Monogamy can be a tough thing in a long term relationship and at least in "open relationships" ground rules are set and no one is being lied to. I don't think it's an ideal situation but I think it works in some cases.
someguy saidWho cares. Ha ha. Live and let live. I've been monogamous in my relationship but not with my eyes. Ha ha. Monogamy can be a tough thing in a long term relationship and at least in "open relationships" ground rules are set and no one is being lied to. I don't think it's an ideal situation but I think it works in some cases.
I'm not saying it can't work for some people, I'm just trying to understand it.
MunchingZombie saidReplace "open" with "interracial" or "homosexual" and see if it is you aren't still being judgmental and intolerant.
And once we have done that. How about we replace interracial with the version that N.A.M.B.L.A finds to their liking ...
Last I checked, homosexual and interracial sex was not immoral and illegal. You must be joking with your equivocation.
Dead serious with my example. The point you are missing is where do you draw the line. Anywhere? Nowhere? What next in the form of relationships will be up for acceptance?
The only time lying is illegal is if you are in court. It is however always immoral.
MunchingZombie saidReplace "open" with "interracial" or "homosexual" and see if it is you aren't still being judgmental and intolerant.
And once we have done that. How about we replace interracial with the version that N.A.M.B.L.A finds to their liking ...
Last I checked, homosexual and interracial sex was not immoral and illegal. You must be joking with your equivocation.
Dead serious with my example. The point you are missing is where do you draw the line. Anywhere? Nowhere? What next in the form of relationships will be up for acceptance?
The only time lying is illegal is if you are in court. It is however always immoral.
You're comparing open relationships to having sex with children? You are disturbing.
It's a simple matter of sex getting stale for some people. You want to have the thrill of the chase of some new tail. Without all the accompanyning headaches
It's all about managed expectations and accepting the consequences from the choices we make, good or bad. It is not for me to decided, you or anyone else what a couple considers acceptable for their relationship.
All this judgment and projecting ones own standards of what is acceptable onto others is very self righteous. For those who sit in judgment, There are 6.7+ BILLION people on this planet and they all have their own experiences, cultural influences, religions and opinions, stop acting like yours is the most important and valid and let people live they way they want to live.
DrobUA saidIdk.. I just don't understand why you'd be in a relationship if you aren't satisfied with it. What aren't you getting from your relationship that you need to get from someone else?
Ahh, to be young again.
To be young again, could this play a factor in the judgement????
I wasn't judging I was asking a question, which neither of you answered. All you do is look at my age. Who's doing the judging?
Here's an attempt at an answer. Sex isn't the only factor in a relationship. There are so many other factors that go into compatibility. Couples don't have to be 100% compatible to be crazy in love in a forever kind of way. Maybe this is a badly oversimplified example, but a couple may be 100% compatible except that one loves to skydive and the other loves his knitting classes. So.... maybe one can go skydiving while the other knits some mittens?
When people refer to an open relationship aren't they referring to getting sex from a third party? They aren't talking about skydiving and knitting. So you are saying that two people love each other but aren't sexually satisfied with each other... to me that sounds like friendship not a relationship.
Definitely not friendship and our sex is great- the third party thing doesn't happen often, and like I said the older we get the less it will matter-nice to know we trust each other enough that after 6 yrs-things are great! When I was in my 20's early 30's I would have said I would never do this, but life changes people mature and I have always been a realist- not a cheater!
seeker213 saidDoesn't someone invariably end-up getting hurt, a lot sooner and a lot more systematically than in ordinary relationships? I thought the documentary "Three of hearts: A postmodern family" was quite revealing in that respect.
I don't believe there is anything unethical about open relationships, provided they are grounded in honesty. However, they have always struck me as an expression of comfort and convenience, rather than passion, deep affection and oneness.
Which brings us to what is really and truly at issue here, the essence of love ...and the fact that most of us are apprehensive about being made to feel powerless, vulnerable and inadequate, as is feared would be the case in the context of an open relationship where all parties might not be on equal footing in terms of the interest they have in one another.
It's possible, too, that some would find such an arrangement distasteful by mere virtue of its perceived easy and self-indulgent nature. And rightfully or wrongfully, hedonism has often been associated with a breakdown in moral integrity.
The question is, then, what can be achieved by an open relationship and at what expense?
This is a great, thoughtful post. Open relationships are not for everybody -- so much can go wrong. But they do work for many people. This is not necessarily me, but just thinking with my keyboard... One reason many people struggle to build LTRs is because they worry about losing their independence. They want to share their life with somebody, but not lose themselves completely in it. And there are many, many ways to maintain independence and still have a perfectly healthy, happy, and permanent relationship -- one of those may be an honest arrangement that includes being open to other partners. Maybe it's a way of ensuring trust between them. I don't know. I can think of many ways in which an open relationship can work -- who knows, maybe even strengthen a couple.
The parameters of the open relationship can only be delineated by the people involved. As for me, my initial sentiment would be that my partner who is "experimenting" would find himself ingesting minute quantities of antifreeze in his breakfast o.j. But I jest... I think. I know some partnered people here on RJ that appear to have the kind of relationship referred to by DJ in the above quote. The bottom line, the glue holding it all together must be honesty...all the way around. Again, the "open" thing, probably not for me, but if it works for them...more power to you, baby !
Celticmusl said There are numerous species that are monogamous. In terms of percentages they might be a minority of species, but it happens, and for survival reasons.
QUOTING FROM AN ARTICLE "In a beaver family, there is a strong need for cooperation to maintain their dams and pools, that's why beaver social units are so tight. Thus, monogamy evolved in situations where young need a better cooperation of both parents in raising them.
That's why humans, with their long childhood, form monogamous pairs."
I know most folks nowadays think that we as humans should not be monogamous, or we were "built" to fool around, but that is not the case. Monogamy would have never taken place over our many centuries if there was not something intrinsic and hereditary about it. Maybe society has become a safer place(or is perceived as being safer) and that is why monogamy is not in vogue right now.
If you took some Sociology classes you might also already know that the "dyad" is the strongest social group for us humans, this is not just a coincidence.
A few things: 1) Pairing in the animal kingdom is quite common. Serial monogamy isn't. If you're talking about marriage, that doesn't mean it's a monogamous one. It's a matter of survival; one that doesn't require monogamy to work as long as there's a mutual understanding that lust does not equate to love. 2) Please provide a link to the article you're citing. I'd like to read it in its entirety. You wrote that monogamy is not in vogue right now. What? As if it's a fad ... like Mylie Cyrus or wearing loose-fitting trousers that show your ass crack? Polyamory is not in vogue, either. 3) Yes, a dyad is a strong social group. It's not the strongest, but it's up there. Read the book, Crowds and Power. Real power and strength comes not in pairs, but in masses. The good of the many outweighs the good of the one (or two, as in the case of marriage). I've included a link for you. You should read it. It's very informative: http://tinyurl.com/yle3vl9
It is late at night but i will try to answer some of your issues. When I was taking Sociology classes the dyad was considered the strongest, most solid and stable form of a group for humans. A quote from an online book: THE BASICS OF SOCIOLOGY, BY KATHY S STOLLY: "THIS GROUP OF TWO IS CALLED A DYAD. THESE ARE OFTEN OUR STRONGEST, MOST INTIMATE RELATIONSHIPS, SUCH AS MARRIAGE.". Yes, larger groups are stronger in power, the majority is always right. You are talking about strength in power, I am talking about the actual bond between the people in the group.... TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT.
The article is here, and before you say it proves your point, it doesn't. It is an editorial about monogamy being an oddity, but it also indicates the animals, including humans, that participate in monogamy. Once again I said there are "numerous species that are monogamous" which is true and I also stated considering the vast number of species of animals the numbers would be considered a "minority of species". Here is the link:
And yes, I believe, and this is my personal opinion(that I'm allowed to have) that a lifelong monogamous, committed, pairing is on it's way out in popularity. I think the divorce rate over this last century supports this theory, among other indications.
I've been in a committed relationship (we would say we are married although the law may say different) for almost 20 years. For the first 12 years we were monogamous. However, in time, we decided that we would have an open relationship. The most important part of that sentence was not the "open relationship part...but instead the "we decided" part.
Every person is different. Every relationship is different. Open relationships are not for every person nor for every couple. For years I was opposed and thought of them as BAD. They aren't good nor bad. They just are. After many years in a relationship that has somehow...lasted, the test of time I feel like I can say "something" about this issue, if even only my opinion.
I reject any person's (or couple's) definition of what good or bad (right or wrong) is. I believe that through like experiences I've earned the right to determine that for myself. So should you....and you...and you...and you.
I strongly do believe that the keys to any relationship are communication, mutual respect and common decision making.
Just my two (or four) cents.
Cheers to everyone's happiness however it finds them and theirs.
MunchingZombie saidReplace "open" with "interracial" or "homosexual" and see if it is you aren't still being judgmental and intolerant.
Replace "open" with "incestual" etc etc etc. Not everything is cool with everyone. Just because your gay doesn't mean you have to leave your morals and values behind, whatever they may be.
I will defend your right to have an open relationship, but leave me out of it.
Are some of Canada's gay marriages open relationships? Yep. They work for those happy in them.
Blondizgod,
We'd like to say that if someone thinks open relationships are immoral, kindly remember that the yardstick applies to you only.
There are a number of men on RJ in very long term open relationships spanning decades. It's not necessary to insult them.
Comparing open relationships with something like NAMBLA is unkind and untrue. Insinuating that being OK with others' open relationships is like advocating NAMBLA is pure troll, and carefully designed to insult.
It's that same reasoning that gay haters are using to keep you down.
"Can't give em marriage! If you accept gay marriage you'll be accepting people marrying their dogs, or gerbils! Marrying children! Pedophilia! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"
Well, I have never been in one. I suppose it is ok if both partners are ok with it... if it works for them, then what's the problem? I can't see myself in one because if I start a relationship of any kind, it would be with someone I love. Which means I'm not gonna be ok with him sleeping with other people. If I am ok with it, then I don't have feelings for him, I just have sex with him. But then it's not a relationship at all, right?
RunintheCity saidIt's fine to say live and let live...until someone posts a thread -involving an open relationship issue or about an affair with a married man- asking for feedback. THEN all the nuances of context and personal boundaries as defined individually enter the assessment.
If folks would like to live and be left to live, they're better off not asking others for their opinions.
To each his own I completely agree with that. However, an open relationship is not a relationship at all, period. A relationship is a lot of hard work, and honesty and loyalty are extremely important. Loyalty even more so....you can lie to me about certain things from time to time because chances are I will lie to you too. But you have to remain loyal. I can't imagine sharing my man and I certainly wouldn't play around with others. I've known too many couples that eventually broke up because they either played separately or together. It always ends in disaster. Yes, we are men and thus very sexual, but adding another cock and ass in your bed is not a good idea. Communicate with your partner and spice it up between the two of you.
euro83 saidTo each his own I completely agree with that. However, an open relationship is not a relationship at all, period. A relationship is a lot of hard work, and honesty and loyalty are extremely important. Loyalty even more so....you can lie to me about certain things from time to time because chances are I will lie to you too. But you have to remain loyal. I can't imagine sharing my man and I certainly wouldn't play around with others. I've known too many couples that eventually broke up because they either played separately or together. It always ends in disaster. Yes, we are men and thus very sexual, but adding another cock and ass in your bed is not a good idea. Communicate with your partner and spice it up between the two of you.
I get why an open relationship isn't for you, it makes sense. But you're over generalizing when you say "it always ends in disaster." The National Center for Health Statistics says that nearly 50 percent of first marriages end in divorce or separation within the first 15 years. Since you're giving out advice, maybe you should suggest that people not get married because marriages "always end in disaster."
Keep it real.... my point in all my replies is that this is such a subjective topic that the discussion will go around and around. We might as well debate which is the best color: Red or green?
Are some of Canada's gay marriages open relationships? Yep. They work for those happy in them.
Blondizgod,
We'd like to say that if someone thinks open relationships are immoral, kindly remember that the yardstick applies to you only.
There are a number of men on RJ in very long term open relationships spanning decades. It's not necessary to insult them.
Comparing open relationships with something like NAMBLA is unkind and untrue. Insinuating that being OK with others' open relationships is like advocating NAMBLA is pure troll, and carefully designed to insult.
It's that same reasoning that gay haters are using to keep you down.
"Can't give em marriage! If you accept gay marriage you'll be accepting people marrying their dogs, or gerbils! Marrying children! Pedophilia! EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"
You are being disenguous. My response was to another poster who decided to replace open relationships with interracial marriages. We can replace with anything we like, was my intent.
And we are not talking about gay marriages. How did you get from sanctioned promiscuity to gay marriage? Surely you can see that both are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Or perhaps you can't see...
Open relationships may be ok for you. And that is fine. They are nor for me and that is fine as well. Surely there is enough room for all of us and our differences of opinions.
You do not have to accept my opinion nor do I have to accept yours
MunchingZombie saidReplace "open" with "interracial" or "homosexual" and see if it is you aren't still being judgmental and intolerant.
Replace "open" with "incestual" etc etc etc. Not everything is cool with everyone. Just because your gay doesn't mean you have to leave your morals and values behind, whatever they may be.
I will defend your right to have an open relationship, but leave me out of it.
As above, a consensual relationship between two or more people is analogous to incest? Because such relationships value your morals and your values?
And while I appreciate the sentiment that you will defend people's right to have such a relationship, how are you not being left out of it?
MunchingZombie saidReplace "open" with "interracial" or "homosexual" and see if it is you aren't still being judgmental and intolerant.
Replace "open" with "incestual" etc etc etc. Not everything is cool with everyone. Just because your gay doesn't mean you have to leave your morals and values behind, whatever they may be.
I will defend your right to have an open relationship, but leave me out of it.
As above, a consensual relationship between two or more people is analogous to incest? Because such relationships value your morals and your values?
And while I appreciate the sentiment that you will defend people's right to have such a relationship, how are you not being left out of it?
Celticmusl can correct me if I misread his point, but the context of his comments is that he has been hit on by one or both parts of couples in the past, and in some cases they have tried to mislead him into thinking it's OK because they were miserable and/or sexless. That's not cool. It's also not cool if somebody who read his profile and knows he's only interested in single people hit on him anyway.
As for the incest comment... it's offensive to suggest that gay men in an honest, open relationship have checked their morals and values at the door.
You are correct about the first part, the second part.....well I think it is offensive that the writer would consider someone that does not like the idea of an open relationship a racist(interracial) or hypocritical(homosexual). My point was that you can't put any "word" in front of relationship, and at that point we should all be cool with it. At no point did I say on open relationship was like an incestual relationship in any way, I just considered the poster's conjecture ridiculous to suggest putting another word in front of the word relationship has anything to do with anything.
I am also not saying that an open relationship is immoral. I am saying that just because someone is gay, doesn't mean their whole structure of morals and values needs to be replaced. If someone feels strongly that having sex outside of a relationship is wrong, they don't have to give that up because they happen to be gay. I am actually defending the homosexual identity at this point, just because you're gay doesn't mean you have no morals or values and can't make decisions for yourself on what is best for you.
You are correct about the first part, the second part.....well I think it is offensive that the writer would consider someone that does not like the idea of an open relationship a racist(interracial) or hypocritical(homosexual). My point was that you can't put any "word" in front of relationship, and at that point we should all be cool with it.
I am also not saying that an open relationship is immoral. I am saying that just because someone is gay, doesn't mean their whole structure of morals and values needs to be replaced. If someone feels strongly that having sex outside of a relationship is wrong, they don't have to give that up because they happen to be gay. I am actually defending the homosexual identity at this point, just because you're gay doesn't mean you have no morals or values and can't make decisions for yourself on what is best for you.
I've had this experience before with an ex. We were together for 4 years before he came to me one day and just literally blurted out "I think we should have an open relationship". I just looked at him like hmmmm.... and asked why? His response, "I think it'll spice things up for us." Of course, I was shocked and hurt. I think my love for him just obliterated at the very moment he suggested such a thing. Needless to say, I ain't no pushover.. such an idea was beyond uncomfortable for me so I pretty much told him that I'll do him one better "you can go out and do whoever the hell you want now, buh-bye".
So I wonder if open relationships are ever truly two-sided since one partner most likely is trying to convince the other partner of the pros of this type of arrangement.
kietkat saidI've had this experience before with an ex. We were together for 4 years before he came to me one day and just literally blurted out "I think we should have an open relationship". I just looked at him like hmmmm.... and asked why? His response, "I think it'll spice things up for us." Of course, I was shocked and hurt. I think my love for him just obliterated at the very moment he suggested such a thing. Needless to say, I ain't no pushover.. such an idea was beyond uncomfortable for me so I pretty much told him that I'll do him one better "you can go out and do whoever the hell you want now, buh-bye".
So I wonder if open relationships are ever truly two-sided since one partner most likely is trying to convince the other partner of the pros of this type of arrangement.
A couple isn't compatible if one wants an open relationship and the other is offended by it. If they are both into it... well ..... seems pretty straight-forward to me.
You are correct about the first part, the second part.....well I think it is offensive that the writer would consider someone that does not like the idea of an open relationship a racist(interracial) or hypocritical(homosexual). My point was that you can't put any "word" in front of relationship, and at that point we should all be cool with it. At no point did I say on open relationship was like an incestual relationship in any way, I just considered the poster's conjecture ridiculous to suggest putting another word in front of the word relationship has anything to do with anything.
I am also not saying that an open relationship is immoral. I am saying that just because someone is gay, doesn't mean their whole structure of morals and values needs to be replaced. If someone feels strongly that having sex outside of a relationship is wrong, they don't have to give that up because they happen to be gay. I am actually defending the homosexual identity at this point, just because you're gay doesn't mean you have no morals or values and can't make decisions for yourself on what is best for you.
wait, wait, wait. I never said that if you do not like open relationships you are some how racist (and hypocritical isn't the correct word). My point was, society has viewed interracial and homosexual relationships as immoral in the past, and many still do today. Why do so many people view open relationships as immoral? And you do view them as immoral as you said they go against the "whole structure of morals and values" and " have no morals or values and can't make decisions for yourself on what is best for you."
Societies assumption has been there is only one type of relationship that works: heterosexual, intraracial, male dominated, monogamous. That has eroded over the years. Far less people think homosexual, interracial, or egalitarian relationships are abnormal. We have yet to accept that monogamy just doesn't work for some people. We biologically programed to not be monogamous but we socially value it. So, we are carving out a style of relations that people can actually find tolerable. For some, sexual and romantic monogamy work. Great. For others, romantic monogamy works, but sexual monogamy doesn't. How are they supposed to live? If they live open and honestly, who are we to say it is immoral?
You also couch this argument as a gay one. Why? Gay people certainly aren't the only ones with open relationships. Swingers parties have been all the rage since forever, and rates of adultery make it extremely common (with rates ranging from 15-50% in makes and 5-25% in women). Infidelity is, of course, the opposite of being in an open relationship. The point, our current moral conception of relationships is wrong. It is a poor fit for a very large percentage of couples.
The benefits of couples being open and honest about their sexual and romantic needs far out weights the utility of shoehorning people into a relationship style that doesn't fit. What is more immoral: adults consenting to a relationship that does no harm or telling people how they should live their lives?
Dude, it's like you read every other word I type. I have never made this a gay issue but I would have to go on too long to explain that. An open marriage or an open gay relationship is something not all of us agrees on, whether gay or straight. You want acceptance, but not everyone will accept it. Homosexuality is not accepted, for the most part, in this world today. But as long as you're free to live in a homosexual open relationship then it shouldn't bother you that others don't feel the same way you do about an open relationship.
Right. Well I am challenging you to explore your own feelings behind this. The queer taboo hasn't diminished because we have been good little boys and girls who kept our lives private in deference the hetero masses. That is why I am engaging you to think about why you might have this bias. That is all.
Historically and world wide, "love" and a "binding relationship" have always been two distinct things and not just between two people. If a bunch of 20th century TV and movies have you thinking differently well that's just your cultural brainwashing.
Blondizgod said, "And we are not talking about gay marriages. How did you get from sanctioned promiscuity to gay marriage? Surely you can see that both are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Or perhaps you can't see..."
Many married couples have open relationships. Many don't.
We also don't make holier than thou expressions of moral judgment on those whose relationships differ from ours.
i don't understand y u are seeking approval from the wider community.
should you really be giving a rats ass about what people think about the way you and your partner choose to live?
i reckon just get over it and start living life the way you want too. "don't ask for permission first. ask for forgiveness later."
they have no right to tell you what you are doing is wrong. just as you would have no right to go to someone and tell them to be open minded and accept your way of life.
i think the important thing is to just RESPECT people for who they are and how they choose to live.
stop watching people live their life and start living your own.
