Church of Scientology convicted of fraud in France. Dutch court revokes Scientology’s tax-exempt status

  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Oct 27, 2009 3:56 PM GMT
    Dutch court revokes Scientology’s tax-exempt status


    http://bluebelldigital.co.uk/eastgrinsteadonline/2015/10/23/dutch-court-revokes-scientologys-tax-exempt-status/



    [quote]
    A Paris court convicted the Church of Scientology of fraud and fined it more than euro600,000 ($900,000) on Tuesday but stopped short of banning the group as prosecutors had demanded.

    The group's French branch immediately announced it would appeal the verdict.

    [/quote]

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091027/ap_on_re_eu/eu_france_scientology
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2009 7:47 PM GMT
    Religions - line 'em up and knock 'em down.
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Oct 27, 2009 8:35 PM GMT
    McGay saidReligions - line 'em up and knock 'em down.


    Now thats cruel. Scientology may bee a cult, but all religions deserved to exist and be heard.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2009 8:38 PM GMT
    No, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Oct 27, 2009 8:47 PM GMT
    Well, it's the French.....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 27, 2009 8:48 PM GMT
    Yep, they're not just opposed to Islam anymore. I hope they go after the cat'licks soon.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 12:18 AM GMT
    I was in Pershing Square, Los Angeles in 1978 when a couple of young girls - about my age then, invited me to attend a meeting at a given address that evening. So I found the place and listened to the lecture one of its elders delivered.
    I was told that we all had "Emotional problems" that had been instilled into us by constrained childhood upbringing. The aim of this organization was to free us from this restraint, and to live as freely as God intended us to live.
    I was pressurised to attend a center for a few days - for a price of course - of around fifty dollars (this was more than thirty years ago, so fifty dollars was a lot in those days!) - after convincing me that I had emotional problems caused by "bad" parental upbringing. The idea of the center sounds very appealing, liking it to a "paradise" hotel or holiday resort, set in a forest of Redwood trees which provided a haven from the rat race of the world outside.
    An inner sense told me not to yield, so I resisted their pleas, and walked out of the meeting to catch a Greyhound bus to San Francisco.
    Had I went along, rather than set me free, I would have been enslaved to a rigorous daily routine of constant monitoring. There would ALWAYS be a senior member literally supervising me in everything I did, and obeyed orders as they convert me to the thinking of their founder, Ron Hubbard.
    Hubbard was not religious himself. After serving in WW2, he began to write science fiction books, then hit upon the idea of psychoanalysis, and wrote a book on the subject, a do-it-yourself manual without any mainstream medical authority, which became the basis of the organization which grew rapidly. To cut a long story short, he made his millions which he had stacked away, tax-free, in a Swiss bank.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 12:23 AM GMT
    ^
    I have exactly the same story from my catholic primary school.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 12:27 AM GMT
    McGay saidReligions - line 'em up and knock 'em down.


    I also think that's cruel, I mean Scientology in no way even qualifies as a religion icon_razz.gif
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Oct 28, 2009 12:33 PM GMT
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    So what if parents tell their children that Santa Clause exists. I believed in him as a child and I still wish I did. For one thing, they are not intended to harm children in any way. These mythical creatures represent that spirit of the holidays, except for the fairy tales characters of course. I think your over analyzing it.

    Have fun trying to stuff religion in a closet. That will never work. People will always need something spiritual in their lives and religion can offer that too them better than atheism ever could.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 1:27 PM GMT
    I find it amusing, how easy it is for a cult to become a religion and in America, under the 1st amendment, given all the rights there in including tax exemption.

    My AH Ha moment was when I wondered why we haven’t started a religion.

    A religion that in order to achieve sanctuary in the next life you have to be in a committed relationship with someone of the same sex.

    The ramifications are mind blowing.
    Just imagining what the gym would look like is more then I can handle.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 1:30 PM GMT
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    So what if parents tell their children that Santa Clause exists. I believed in him as a child and I still wish I did. For one thing, they are not intended to harm children in any way. These mythical creatures represent that spirit of the holidays, except for the fairy tales characters of course. I think your over analyzing it.

    Have fun trying to stuff religion in a closet. That will never work. People will always need something spiritual in their lives and religion can offer that too them better than atheism ever could.


    God is a ridiculous fantasy. There are better fantasies in which to engage. Even the fantasy of Santa Claus is better because the open display of santa worship only takes place for a week or so. This other crap never ends. It's repetitious, obnoxious and noxious.
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Oct 28, 2009 1:59 PM GMT
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    So what if parents tell their children that Santa Clause exists. I believed in him as a child and I still wish I did. For one thing, they are not intended to harm children in any way. These mythical creatures represent that spirit of the holidays, except for the fairy tales characters of course. I think your over analyzing it.

    Have fun trying to stuff religion in a closet. That will never work. People will always need something spiritual in their lives and religion can offer that too them better than atheism ever could.


    God is a ridiculous fantasy. There are better fantasies in which to engage. Even the fantasy of Santa Claus is better because the open display of santa worship only takes place for a week or so. This other crap never ends. It's repetitious, obnoxious and noxious.


    You're being obnoxious. So what if I believe that God exists. How does something like that annoy you? If you keep telling people the believing in God is stupid, you are never going to get anywhere. It you be better if you accept people for their differences rather than shunning them away.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 2:01 PM GMT


    heh, the adherents of that claim it's a science and not a religion - yet they claimed religious status for tax exempt purposes. Interesting, eh?

    The founder was diagnosed as being rather mentally ill, hence the hatred of psychiatry.

    Gay people are about a 1 on the tonal scale; sick perverts dangerous to society. Hubbard thought that other than permanent institutionalization, euthanasia was perhaps the only way to deal with themicon_rolleyes.gif.

    His son Quentin was gay and committed suicide over it in '76.


    How do I know some of this stuff? My Uncle was married to a gal who became a minister for that 'church'.

    The church also believes marriage is strictly man and woman.

    -Doug

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    Oct 28, 2009 2:16 PM GMT
    I have to admit I find the stuff i hear about the Church of Scientology a little scary. I am also leery of any institution that supervises your dogged adherence to its policies in your personal life. Whether you call it spirituality, religion , or science, I find that the philosophies of an institution that an individual accepts as his own should be self-monitored. I personally dont believe that an institution such as this church should be monitoring people's lifestyles, money and etc but I can say that about a number of other instituions religious and otherwise in our society nowadays.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 2:19 PM GMT
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    So what if parents tell their children that Santa Clause exists. I believed in him as a child and I still wish I did. For one thing, they are not intended to harm children in any way. These mythical creatures represent that spirit of the holidays, except for the fairy tales characters of course. I think your over analyzing it.

    Have fun trying to stuff religion in a closet. That will never work. People will always need something spiritual in their lives and religion can offer that too them better than atheism ever could.


    God is a ridiculous fantasy. There are better fantasies in which to engage. Even the fantasy of Santa Claus is better because the open display of santa worship only takes place for a week or so. This other crap never ends. It's repetitious, obnoxious and noxious.


    You're being obnoxious. So what if I believe that God exists. How does something like that annoy you? If you keep telling people the believing in God is stupid, you are never going to get anywhere. It you be better if you accept people for their differences rather than shunning them away.


    But, I'm getting somewhere now. I'm not shunning any people away. Some of my best friends believe in god. Frankly, to me, a belief in god is a lifestyle choice that is an abomination to intelligence. There's enough cognitive dissonance to be had without the imagined watchful eye of god.
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Oct 28, 2009 2:39 PM GMT
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    So what if parents tell their children that Santa Clause exists. I believed in him as a child and I still wish I did. For one thing, they are not intended to harm children in any way. These mythical creatures represent that spirit of the holidays, except for the fairy tales characters of course. I think your over analyzing it.

    Have fun trying to stuff religion in a closet. That will never work. People will always need something spiritual in their lives and religion can offer that too them better than atheism ever could.


    God is a ridiculous fantasy. There are better fantasies in which to engage. Even the fantasy of Santa Claus is better because the open display of santa worship only takes place for a week or so. This other crap never ends. It's repetitious, obnoxious and noxious.


    You're being obnoxious. So what if I believe that God exists. How does something like that annoy you? If you keep telling people the believing in God is stupid, you are never going to get anywhere. It you be better if you accept people for their differences rather than shunning them away.


    But, I'm getting somewhere now. I'm not shunning any people away. Some of my best friends believe in god. Frankly, to me, a belief in god is a lifestyle choice that is an abomination to intelligence. There's enough cognitive dissonance to be had without the imagined watchful eye of god.



    I believe in God and frankly I am a hugely intelligent person. I certainly don't feel dumb for believing in him. And for me their is no clash between reason and faith. A person should have both.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 2:45 PM GMT
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    etc.etc.

    But, I'm getting somewhere now. I'm not shunning any people away. Some of my best friends believe in god. Frankly, to me, a belief in god is a lifestyle choice that is an abomination to intelligence. There's enough cognitive dissonance to be had without the imagined watchful eye of god.


    .


    I don't see how you're getting somewhere. How is your stance going to change anyone's mind? And if you're being contrary and incendiary without the intention of creating discourse or debate then you are by definition being obnoxious as musclebuilder88 suggested.

    Your dislike of and disbelief in religion is your opinion and you're more than entitled to it, but when you claim it to be some higher truth and say it's either your way or it's the wrong way; you begin to sound a lot like.....a religious fanatic. A religion with you at the centre of it, perhaps? What's the difference?

    In that light, there are far more religious people out there who can coexist peacefully with the world than the intolerant 'non-religious' example you're offering as an alternative
  • GTBL88

    Posts: 86

    Oct 28, 2009 2:50 PM GMT
    brokenbeats said
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay said
    musclebuilder88 said
    McGay saidNo, they don't. Not unless parents stop telling children that Santa Claus doesn't exist, and the Easter Bunny and the Great Pumpkin and the Tooth Fairy and the Boogie Man and Sasquatch and Mother Goose and Cinderalla and Peter Pan. Religion needs to be stuffed into an old moth eaten closet where it belongs.


    etc.etc.

    But, I'm getting somewhere now. I'm not shunning any people away. Some of my best friends believe in god. Frankly, to me, a belief in god is a lifestyle choice that is an abomination to intelligence. There's enough cognitive dissonance to be had without the imagined watchful eye of god.


    .


    I don't see how you're getting somewhere. How is your stance going to change anyone's mind? And if you're being contrary and incendiary without the intention of creating discourse or debate then you are by definition being obnoxious as musclebuilder88 suggested.

    Your dislike of and disbelief in religion is your opinion and you're more than entitled to it, but when you claim it to be some higher truth and say it's either your way or it's the wrong way; you begin to sound a lot like.....a religious fanatic. A religion with you at the centre of it, perhaps? What's the difference?

    In that light, there are far more religious people out there who can coexist peacefully with the world than the intolerant 'non-religious' example you're offering as an alternative



    Thank you so much for that. Glad to hear there are people like you who share my opinion.

    The arguments over belief or non-belief get the argument itself nowhere. There are fanatics on both sides of the religious spectrum. They are both just as dangerous.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2009 3:02 PM GMT
    dustin_K_tx said

    My AH Ha moment was when I wondered why we haven’t started a religion.

    A religion that in order to achieve sanctuary in the next life you have to be in a committed relationship with someone of the same sex.

    The ramifications are mind blowing.
    Just imagining what the gym would look like is more then I can handle.



    How about we don't group a large number of gays into a large visible building where a pipe bomb can easily be planted for mass erradication icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2009 8:27 AM GMT
    You boys, and those who believe as you do, are entitled to your fantasies, to a degree. Too often, your fantasies intrude upon the reality that others wish to engage in. Those same kind of fantasies keep women walking 20 paces behind their men, inspire exorcisms on young children, prevent parents from providing basic medical assistance to their kids, restrict the rights of gay people, etc. Who's obnoxious? Too many fantasizers, like yourselves.
  • jeffper1

    Posts: 148

    Oct 30, 2009 8:30 AM GMT
    yes....cults....they have a right to exist......go pitt and cuise....
    may you live on in infintiy......to bad for the kids
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2009 11:37 AM GMT
    McGay saidYou boys, and those who believe as you do, are entitled to your fantasies, to a degree. Too often, your fantasies intrude upon the reality that others wish to engage in. Those same kind of fantasies keep women walking 20 paces behind their men, inspire exorcisms on young children, prevent parents from providing basic medical assistance to their kids, restrict the rights of gay people, etc. Who's obnoxious? Too many fantasizers, like yourselves.


    I'd definitely say that you're the obnoxious one then. Where have I said or advocated ANY of the extreme things you have mentioned? Where have I forced you to believe in the same things as I do or 'intrude upon' your 'reality'? What you are displaying is classic prejudice - judging people who you do not even know based entirely on assumptions which are incorrect. If you have a problem with extreme fundamentalism, that's fine. Don't include all religions in that envelope - it just shows ignorance. You seriously sound like the very people who wanted to hunt down and eradicate all homosexuals because of assumptions that we are ALL paedophiles who want to convert their children. Seriously dude.
  • thisguy023

    Posts: 204

    Oct 30, 2009 12:40 PM GMT

    I don't agree with McGay's anger, but I do agree with his points.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 30, 2009 12:48 PM GMT
    From the article:
    The court convicted the Church of Scientology's French office, its library and six of its leaders of organized fraud. Investigators said the group pressured members into paying large sums of money for questionable financial gain and used "commercial harassment" against recruits.

    I'm not defending the Scientologists, but this article really isn't very clear about any of the allegations.

    Por ejemplo...

    I honestly don't know what "commercial harassment" is. I mean, I may be getting increasingly sick of Flo and the Progressive commercials, but I am not feeling harassed by them. Can someone explain that term to me?

    And also, I may not be a lawyer, but "pressuring someone to pay large sums of money for questionable financial gain" doesn't sound like fraud. The "pressure" factor makes it seem more like atrocious salesmanship, but not fraud. I may be wrong though...