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An Interesting View of America
southbeach150... Posts: 1615
Oct 28, 2009 12:04 AM GMT
Do you agree with this?

Power of Money against Power of Spirit
The last turning point similar to the current one happened approximately 400 years ago. The Western European society discovered a new hierarchy of values. Feudalism that valued service and chivalry was replaced with capitalism. Wealth became the measure of success, and everyone was to care about his own pocket only. The cult of money replaced all other values, including religious.

Capitalism turned everything upside down and made people more excited about stuffing their bank accounts than anything else. This system turned out to be extremely efficient in terms of production of goods, services, and comfort. America benefited from the system the most, and decided that the rest of the world has to adopt it as well. If some underdeveloped countries are unable to appreciate the benefits of capitalism, they should be forced to do it.

Collapse of the Illusion

Meanwhile, philosophers says that capitalism is driven not by hard cash, but rather, striving for hard cash. It’s driven not by the production of goods, but rather, striving for consumption of these goods.

If everyone had these values, the “dog-eat-dog” principal would be the major principal in the world history. But America failed to do it. There are plenty of “underdeveloped” people in the world who continue to cherish spiritual values. There are not that many chances left to force them into worshiping money since these “underdeveloped” people adopt western technology and become stronger. The appeal to adopt American values doesn’t work either. Why would we adopt the system if the system is in crisis? Pragmatic America realized that billions of people are not willing to live in the kingdom of hard cash and decided that it would be better off leaving this kingdom itself. Now the USA is talking about introducing elements of socialism.

What does Obama’s decision not to build the Eastern European Missile Defense System have to do with all of this? Well, it means that it’s not capitalism that’s undergoing the crisis, but the belief in its high efficiency. And this, in turn, means that America, the bulwark of capitalism, is no longer the boss of the world. And if it’s not the boss any more, it has to be friends with everybody. Or maybe it’s just tired of imposing its rules on others and felt that friendship is more valuable than money and power? If this is the case, we will soon witness another turning point in the world history.
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Oct 28, 2009 1:31 AM GMT
I find myself in "selective agreement and disagreement" at the same time, as I read the article.
America has never been a "pure Capitalistic society" and has always been the most generous nation in the history of mankind. That we have succeed for over 200 years, is an anomaly in the history of mankind, with the exception of the Romans and few other societies or economies. To attempt to blame an historic "tuning point" on whether Obama goes ahead with building the Eastern European Missile Defense System, which has been in development for years, seems to be an exaggeration of the "grand scheme" importance of this single investment or how it would affect/effect or influence friends and foes alike. That a "turning point" is approaching is undeniable, whether it will be the "undoing" of America or simply part of the continuing evolution of our society remains to be seen and can never be expected to make everyone happy, because of political, religious, economic and philosophical differences in America and the rest of the world....to date...the USA is still THE military superpower and is still THE economy that shakes the world.....although China is gaining in that area quickly... Things will change, they always do and will. I believe this is much bigger than Repub/Dem. I am interested in how the Power of money and Power of Spirit have and continue to try to hook up and become one. This is an old idea that has always corrupted both, predating Christ by millenia.....

Interesting article, do you have the reference for it, so I can read the rest of it?
Thanks.
Gary
Anto Posts: 1108
Oct 28, 2009 1:36 AM GMT
No I don't. I think it is a bit oblivious and short-sighted.
Sirkit Posts: 174
Oct 28, 2009 1:45 AM GMT
No. Money and economics is certainly a driving force in world politics, however, it can just as easily be said that nations are actively in a system of cooperation than capitalistic competition. America has also never been a pure capitalist society, there has always been elements of social programs administered by the government. This system of course exploded with the New Deal and the regulations that were put in place by Roosevelt and has gradually been deconstructed over the last 30 years.

The only illusion in this story is that America is a pure capitalist nation. It's time to wake up and smell the socialism.
Oct 28, 2009 3:13 AM GMT
One thing I know the US needs to make friends rrruuushhh... and I mean... RRRUUUUUSSSSHHHHHH!!! And I'm not talking about fake allies like France and the UK..
rdberg1957 Posts: 252
Oct 28, 2009 3:34 AM GMT
The United States, not so long after the fall of the Soviet Union, has its own troubles. We are overextended militarily and at home due to the 2001 tax cuts and the 2008-2009 bank bailouts, Social Security part d, etc. We can't bully our way around the world anymore. We need allies and France and the UK count. Capitalism has its strengths and limitations as does any economic system. The welfare state exists because of the vagaries of the free market system. Unregulated markets are prone to wild swings producing cycles of boom and bust with horrible consequences when things go bust. Capitalism also is likely to foment civil unrest if not mitigated by efforts toward fairness such as progressive taxation because wealth tends to concentrate in the hands of those who are already wealthy. Most European nations take their capitalism with a socialist chaser, for better and for worse.
Webster666 Posts: 1970
Oct 28, 2009 8:31 AM GMT
Capitalism worked great between 1945 and about 1980, when the middle class grew by leaps and bounds, and the "American Dream" was achievable for most people.

Then, manufacturers started moving their factories and businesses overseas until there were no jobs left in America for unskilled labor, making the middle class smaller and smaller.

The Republicans deregulated everything they could get their hands on, resulting in our current economic crisis.

As for Obama, he seems to believe that it's better to talk to people than to kill them.

MeOhMy Posts: 2440
Oct 28, 2009 8:39 AM GMT
I agree with the first part (although a rather simple, somewhat superficial rendering), and the last sentence.

some of it is trollop.

Obama... is not socialist. nor are the "reforms" he is undertaking.

the bit on missile defense is misleading, inaccurate, and frankly just wrong.

Oct 28, 2009 8:45 AM GMT
dMostWanted saidOne thing I know the US needs to make friends rrruuushhh... and I mean... RRRUUUUUSSSSHHHHHH!!! And I'm not talking about fake allies like France and the UK..



Ha. Will you be my fake buddy?


Oh, and no american should be allowed to say the word "socialism" while there is a democratic government. It seems few of them understand what it actually means.
southbeach150... Posts: 1615
Oct 28, 2009 1:57 PM GMT
theantijock saidWhenever I'm looking to find turning points in current American history which I can declare at the time to be as significant as the transition from feudalism, I always turn to the experts at Pravda.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/19-10-2009/109973-socialism-0


You did your homework! :-)

(I wasn't going to reveal the source until today, but you beat me to it).
southbeach150... Posts: 1615
Oct 28, 2009 5:46 PM GMT
theantijock saidDid my homework? Don't flatter yourself. It took me all of less than 30 seconds to realize you were trying to pull a fast one and another 10 seconds to find your source.

Then I spent another 50 seconds wondering if you'd then try to weasel your way out of it or man up and apologize for trying to trip up all your liberal "friends". The only thing I hadn't counted on was your diversionary tactic of now supposedly complimenting me on my homework. How much homework did it take for you to come up with that?

I didn't believe the flatterers trying to get into my pants 30 years ago and I don't believe you now. I didn't "beat (you) to it" because you were racing to try and make fools of good people; so I didn't beat you to the bunch, I merely pulled back on yours so you don't get the last laugh, only the shame you bring upon yourself for having been caught with you pants down.

So thanx again for the congrats but no thank you. Oh, and that respect I'd mentioned in the other post? You just lost some more.


Such animosity!
Oct 28, 2009 5:50 PM GMT
southbeach1500 said
theantijock saidDid my homework? Don't flatter yourself. It took me all of less than 30 seconds to realize you were trying to pull a fast one and another 10 seconds to find your source.

Then I spent another 50 seconds wondering if you'd then try to weasel your way out of it or man up and apologize for trying to trip up all your liberal "friends". The only thing I hadn't counted on was your diversionary tactic of now supposedly complimenting me on my homework. How much homework did it take for you to come up with that?

I didn't believe the flatterers trying to get into my pants 30 years ago and I don't believe you now. I didn't "beat (you) to it" because you were racing to try and make fools of good people; so I didn't beat you to the bunch, I merely pulled back on yours so you don't get the last laugh, only the shame you bring upon yourself for having been caught with you pants down.

So thanx again for the congrats but no thank you. Oh, and that respect I'd mentioned in the other post? You just lost some more.


Such animosity!


I don't see the animosity.
Oct 28, 2009 6:00 PM GMT
theantijock saidIt took me all of less than 30 seconds to realize you were trying to pull a fast one and another 10 seconds to find your source.


30 seconds? I was there after about 5.