What do people like/dislike most about gay life/culture?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2007 12:41 AM GMT
    I thought of posting this after reading the 'what does it mean to be gay' thread. Just curious as to what other peole think >_< !
  • canuckdave

    Posts: 85

    May 07, 2007 2:02 AM GMT
    What is gay culture? We all seem so different and have such varied interests? A couple of shared common bonds are same gender love and social persecution. Does this define Gay culture?
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    May 07, 2007 3:23 AM GMT
    yeah I guess 'culture ' is way too vague a term...
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    May 07, 2007 4:06 AM GMT
    Yeah that can mean lots of things. I do find what some people call gay culture a little odd. Like focused on certain things but leaving other things out.

    I get the feeling sometimes that things are missing in 'gay culture' Sometimes I feel like I miss more variety in my relationships like straight guy and girl friends, and straight couples too.

    I feel a sense of alienation sometimes, but I did just move.

    I feel like the current state of non-acceptance of gays has caused this 'culture' as a sort of safe haven where people can feel like they can be themselves to some extent.

    I prefer being in mixed (sexuality) gyms, bars, whatever but have some friends who want to be immersed in a gay sub-culture.
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    May 07, 2007 7:30 AM GMT
    There is a very big grey area here. I like that. A lot of gay mags really offend me. I'm not buyin' any of that shit ! RJ is the closest thing that I have got to having a gay life, and there is a lot of grey area here. For one thing there is a nice sense of community, with obvious boundries. I grew up in Provincetown, MA - very big gay community there. As a kid, I always wanted to be with other guys, because the men I knew then seemed more positive than straight men, more relaxed and in touch with their feminine side. Straight guys - the one's who I knew- seemed too caught up in the macho act, which I never saw as strong. I viewed certain woman as stronger than men, but mostly I was impressed with 'gay' men. they just seemed magical to me then. Now I find the scene to be a lot less interesting, but find it outside of the scene, outside the box where straight and gay are non issues. Infact these are just labels. 'Gay' is 'happy' by definition.
    I prefer to call it 'sky' or'mountain', 'river'or 'ocean'...'rock' or 'tree.' It is 'natural'.
    GAY IS WHAT NATURE INTENDED US TO B. YO!!!!
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    May 07, 2007 8:50 AM GMT
    yah, I hear ya about societys conditioning and all..the way it conditioned blacks to the "yez-sir" for Hollywood and subjugated women untill very recent. It all started here with the Indians. The white man killed 'em, then there was slavery and so on.
    Yah, so MACHO. so strong.
    How weak , and not so very long ago. Thankfully there is progress and evolution. Evolution will one day obliterate labels...hopefully. but people love labels. They love to wear labels, and they love status. Money can buy you nothing more than a little material control.That is it. Every where we look we are being sold something. At the check-out counters we are being sold POOR TOM AND KATIE. The blinking lights. The razz-mataz. All that glitters is not gold. But wait, isn't that how we established the wild west ? Shiny things. Idolatry. Barbie and Ken.
    AMERICAN IDOL.
    FUCK !!!!!!!!!

    Masculine and feminine are not seperate properties. Our culture puts too much material emphasis on the sexes in general, as being seperate. THAT is NOT NATURAL.

    HMM. The catholic curch loves it's business, don't it ?
    Got to get ALLLLLLL them people thru the doors. ALLLLLL
    them people, because the planet certainly needs MORE people.
    CONTROL. CONTROL. CONTROL.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2007 1:56 PM GMT
    I enjoy and appreciate the diversity of gay men from butch to ordinary to flamingly outrageous. What I dislike most about gay life/culture is cigarette smoking and drug/alcohol abuse.
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    May 07, 2007 2:58 PM GMT
    I find the claim that there's no "gay culture" funny most of the time. I mean here we are on a website devoted to gay fitness buffs and people question the existence of a discrete gay culture. Likewise, you see men on Manhunt claiming they are "not into the scene." What do they think a site devoted to finding sodomy partners is if not a gay scene?

    There are gay bookstores. There is gay theater. There are gay circuit parties. There are gay games. There are gay churches. There are gay studies departments in universities. There are gay history organizations and libraries. There is gay fashion. There is a movement to grant gay people civil rights. There is a gay porn industry. There are shelters for abused gay kids. There are doctors and psychologists specializing in gay patients. On and on.

    Some of this of course arises from our status as outsiders. Much of it, though, is simply a recognition and cultivation of our difference. The idea that assimilation is going to eliminate gay culture is as absurd as the earlier claim that integration would render discrete Af/Am culture archaic.

    What I find to be almost always true is that gay men who make a big deal about being identified as part of a "scene" are terrified of being viewed as girly men.

  • allamericantx

    Posts: 140

    May 07, 2007 4:43 PM GMT

    I hate the lack of "happy" gays, or better, gays that are not at peace. I sense a lot of guys really internalize feeling like a social or religious misfit and they spend their lives carrying this sadness and trying to 'heal' the wound - sometimes at the expense of those around them, i.e., their partners. All the while, they try to overcompensate on the outside or with their actions to ACT "ok" when they're not....and everyone else pays for it in the end when their true feelings surface and expose themselves.

    If I summed up what I hate most about the "scene", it would be the mind games. The lying. The deception. We are dealing with MASTER deceptionists. People who (in order to survive in life) had to hide from the world both who and what they were, play the social roles expected, and in the process, became skilled at the art of dishonesty and deception.

    Dishonest with others, dishonest with themselves. The PROBLEM is that many people don't know when to stop playing games. Instead, some guys incorporate those ways of living into their lives today, and continue using them as a means to live when they don't have to, or shouldn't have to, with each other.

    We all had to do what we had to do in order to survive and live. BUT, now that we are in the company of 'others' like ourselves, some guys seem to be in a rut with the old ways of living. I found that to be true in my last relationship. Deception was so convenient with my ex, he couldn't tell the truth to save his life. Deception and trickery got him "short term" happiness, but killed the relationship in the end.

    So I would say, as for the "scene", I don't like the lies and inability for some guys to be honest - and to be at peace.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2007 6:02 PM GMT
    Simple

    Just because i like to sleep with men, i'm equated with being typecast as "Gay" and everything it stands for to society.

    Very brash/stereotypical example: "all gay men dislike pussy"

    Ha- i prefer licking it, to ass. But i put up with the same amount of drama from women that i put up with in men i.e NONE.

    The Fact society will try to force you to live by a lifestlye as they see fit.

    "you do this, so you can't do that"

    Bullshit, never underestimated the strength of the human spirit.

    Being put in a box and labelled. There is no box to label the diverisity of the individual.

    Can i put this any other way?

    And this one could be a tolkien sized reply about what societies views of gay culture/lifestyle are.
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    May 07, 2007 7:17 PM GMT
    I thought Hobbits were short.
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    May 07, 2007 7:32 PM GMT
    Right on SURFWARRIOR !

  • imaxim

    Posts: 94

    May 07, 2007 7:46 PM GMT
    I agree with a number of the things said above, particularly from Paradox and AATX. That latter thought really resonated with me because of some of the experiences I've had over the last year or so since coming out.

    When I first moved away from the religious, conservative environment where I grew up, I was very used to (and tired of) all of the repression necessary just to be accepted. I was eventually able to tell my family the truth, leave all of that behind, and move to a place with a thriving gay community.

    I had never really interacted with other gays before, and I was looking forward to the freedom of purging all of that dishonesty from my life. Instead, I found that a lot of other [single] gay men here seem to be terribly conflicted, often incapable of being honest with themselves or others. There are also many among us who are experts at inhumane and self-destructive behavior.

    Above all else, I'd love to see less of the unnecessary deception and hate/exclusion; you'd think it would be EASIER with just one gender...
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    May 07, 2007 7:49 PM GMT
    It's a curiosity to me that you guys are so focused on what you consider negative about "gay culture." The things you are complaining about -- deception, stereotyping, etc. -- don't seem particularly "gay" to me, although I certainly agree that the closet, the hiding, produces a lot of maladaptive behavior.

    However, I don't see anything healthier about trying to hide oneself by laying claim to not being different because of one's gay sexual identity. To me, that's just a closet of a different type.

    Many gay men grow out of this unhappiness as they mature.

    I consider my sexuality a gift. I think people's happiness or lack of it depends a lot on whether they can view being different a gift or a liability.
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    May 07, 2007 7:55 PM GMT
    I have asked myself, almost this same question before and I think that it is a legitimate topic for discussion - it's good to examine who we are - determine what we like about that, build on the good points and reshape the not so good ones. there certainly (believe it or not, like it or not) IS a 'gay culture, ' as real as any other culture and while being gay isn't an ethnicity - it is cross cultural, and common threads exist throughout history in all cultures. So take a second, think about how your life might be if you were born a gay man in ancient Rome, midieval Europe...and most of all, be glad that you are who you are, living now and have the opportunity to impact society not only now, but in the future.
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    May 07, 2007 9:01 PM GMT
    GAY and STRAIGHT are statess of mind. I am def more prone toward the BI side of the fence. I like that area. It is not so black and white.

    William Shakespeare said :

    " There is no good or bad, but THINKING makes it so. "
    I apply that to 'gay' and 'straight' as well.
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    May 07, 2007 9:04 PM GMT
    Interesting. I'd regard bi as just another label.
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    May 07, 2007 9:19 PM GMT
    Exactly, but it embraces less the Hot and cold of it.

    My favorite song is 'DON"T FENCE ME IN'.

    Obviously, I'm not trying to win a popularity contest here.
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    May 07, 2007 9:20 PM GMT
    WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE :

    "THE THING THAT I AM SHALL MAKE ME LIVE."

    It's not a numbers game.

    It's about the individual.
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    May 07, 2007 9:36 PM GMT
    RE : OBSCENE WISH

    To describe love making between two men as being ' sodomy partners'
    has a particularly odd ring to it.
    How 'bout taking a look up at the stars.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 07, 2007 9:55 PM GMT
    Well, I was married for 7 years. Please feel free to take my share of pussy along with your own share.

    Actually, insofar as gay identity goes, you are making queer theory's argument that "gay" is an incoherent term that points toward something rather than directly signifies something. Or something.
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    May 07, 2007 10:01 PM GMT
    "To describe love making between two men as being ' sodomy partners'
    has a particularly odd ring to it.
    How 'bout taking a look up at the stars"


    Um, I would say that looking beyond definitions of intimacy that make the marriage "contract" dependent on sexual fidelity is looking at the stars.

    I would also say that developing a sense of irony is real starry-eyed.

  • imaxim

    Posts: 94

    May 07, 2007 10:55 PM GMT
    It's a curiosity to me that you guys are so focused on what you consider negative about "gay culture." The things you are complaining about -- deception, stereotyping, etc. -- don't seem particularly "gay" to me,

    Yes, much of this is indeed unique to gay men. The roles among heterosexuals are pretty clearly defined: straight men are almost universally amenable to the idea of casual sex and it is socially okay for them to be so. Thus, the woman is usually the deciding factor on when sex does or does not happen.

    Gay dating does not have this inherent throttle, and I find that gay men in various stages of personal fulfillment tend to have a lot more trouble reconciling their desire for "NSA" sex and a healthy, meaningful relationship. While straight men might have similar issues, it seems gay men typically have trouble accepting the sexual freedom available to them and still feeling good about themselves. Thus, many go to great lengths to hide their promiscuity, or to ensure that they never get too close to anyone they connect with sexually.

    While it's true that 'mature' gay men may be more at ease with this, I find it typically has more to do with their relationship status. It's easy to be secure when you don't have to prove yourself to anyone.

    Finally, the issues lie at least partially with "gay culture" in that our attitudes perpetuate them. Monogamous gay couples frequently look down on the behavior of 'promiscuous' singles much in the same way they decry the validity of open relationships. This is a result of using heterosexual dating as a model, but more often it's actually being propagandized by the gay community.

    although I certainly agree that the closet, the hiding, produces a lot of maladaptive behavior.

    Since it is agreed that the behavior is unhealthy and unique to this community, what's so odd about singling these issues out and desiring change?
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    May 07, 2007 11:10 PM GMT
    It's not politically correct but I don't subscribe to the "gay culture" whatever that is. The gay fascists can call me a homophobe for wearing white sneakers after labor day, or for not liking Madonna, or for prefering to ski in Utah rather than shopping in paris, but I won't change for the religious right, I sure as hell won't change for the pop culture trash brain dead Oprah Winfreyized gay czars who think they represent what it means to be gay. The collectivist multicultural cult is anything but cultural. In fact, it shows a chronic ignorance of culture.
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    May 07, 2007 11:24 PM GMT
    It seems that the "gay culture" which is reflected in gay magazines, web sites, etc. is obsessed with style and holds little substance. Take away the obsession with youth, fashion, the perfect body, female celebrities, and what do you have left? Not to mention there is a certain expectation to conform to these standards. (And if you don't conform to this it is assumed you have "issues" with being gay). I avoid the so called gay culture as much as possible because I find it so shallow. The only thing I find positive in the gay community is the struggle for equal rights - which I think we can really be proud of. I am, of course, excluding lesbians, whom I've found are more interested in more substantial topics.