Gays and Blacks

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    Nov 01, 2009 6:32 PM GMT
    CNN Reports On Blacks & Gay Equality



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    Nov 01, 2009 8:02 PM GMT
    Thank goodness this got some prime time action. This discourse needs publicizing. I currently work on Middle easterners coming out experience in France (triply marginalized) and have used the Black community as a point of reference (since the American "coming-out" experience has standardized and even integrated itself into foreign coming-out vocab).

    Thank you for sharing.
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    Nov 01, 2009 8:15 PM GMT

    Everything they say is nice and it is nice to hear about Obama's plans, reassuring. However, I'm not surprised by the size of the down low population, but the reason. They said it was fear of losing family and their "sisters" love. That's not a surprising reason since the black community is largely matriarchal, but the black men that I know and myself couldn't give a toss about our "sisters" or our bigoted closed minded community's opinion of us. I guess that's why we aren't "down low."

    I won't go into why I don't give a fuck what my "sisters"/community thinks because I have some pretty abrasive views, but I will say my resolve about my views are empowered by knowing I have a new community, the gay community, which I love and believe is viable. After all, it saved me and I find that poetic, because in saving me and preventing me from being "down low", it, THE GAY COMMUNITY, saved that "sister" who could have died, our children's possible death, my own death, and another tragedy in the black community from happening. If it's done it for me, it has done it countless times before and gets zero recognition for doing it.

    The men on the panel are right, there is zero respect. This is why I'm such an advocate for a stronger and more united gay community because the black community isn't the only one that treats it's gays with disdain and contempt. Those gays need a place to go that is in the light, unlike being "down low", closeted, hidden, are all in the dark where a attitudes of self worth and self protection are not fostered. The gay community is so much more than what some queens on here say it is, just a preference, just a ploy to get laid. Excuse me, it has always been and still is, a culture, a belief system, unity, and acceptance....a hell of a lot more than some of us get. The gay community is vital.

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    Nov 01, 2009 8:23 PM GMT
    Definitely agree with GG.

    As a blk-mixed person I can relate to this on so many levels.
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    Nov 01, 2009 8:42 PM GMT
    This is why Barack Obama's support is so revolutionary. When you think about the civil rights movement from a African American perspective, religious leaders have always been at the center.

    I suspect that many will dispute this but I wholeheartedly believe that while the black vote isn't significant in terms of number, the black voice is at the core of social consciousness in the US. It is not by mistake that we have this legislation being passed now that a black man is in office.

    As I've said before in many personal discussions with friends, the gay community needs to make every effort to connect with the black community and anti-church rhetoric will never work.

    We need to have dialouge with our preachers, grandparents, nephews, sisters, etc. We need to educate our brothers and sisters. We can't just turn our back on the community because we feel the bigotry. We need their support.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Nov 01, 2009 8:52 PM GMT
    I find this subject endlessly fascinating and frustrating. I am a biracial gay man, adopted as a preschooler and raised by a black family. Black men, by nature of the emasculating legacy of Jim Crow, have major masculinity issues that explain a great deal of this community's hostility to LGBT persons. The church is THE central institution of the black community, which is not exactly a great starting point for tolerance especially for black women, who as a whole are quite devout. It's been my experience that black men use religion as a cover for their homophobia, but their revulsion lies elsewhere. It's wrapped up in societal perceptions of gender roles more than anything. The majority of the black men I know, including my vast collection of cousins and my own brother, have very clearcut ideas of what constitutes manhood, and what constitutes womanhood. Intimacy with a man flies in the face of everything they believe in, and they therefore have rather violent reactions to homosexuality in their midst. Gay men are broadly perceived in the AA community as weak/feminine, which implies a sort of betrayal of the "strong black man" archetype.

    The black gay men I knew in the past (I don't have any more black gay friends since they all died in the nineties and blacks are pretty rare here in Montana) could be grouped into two categories: screaming, simpering African Queens and tough guys on the DL. The effeminate ones were so brave to defy the monolith of the AA community. They were disowned by family and church (as I was). The DL guys I knew I had far less respect for, since they were actively deceiving wives, girlfriends and family. The fact that these two groups were so discrete says everything about accepted gender roles in the black community. Growing up in Texas as I did, I saw similar delineation in the Mexican American community also. These two minority groups have something in common - the insistent swagger of machismo, stemming from centuries of beat-down by whites. There is of course plenty of macho posturing by white men, but it seems to lack the intensity that men of color possess.

    Our great great grandchildren will look back on this time in the history books and wonder what the fuss was all about. We are rapidly approaching a time when everyone on earth will be of mixed race, and same sex attraction will be a character trait of no import, and that's just fine with me...
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    Nov 01, 2009 9:08 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    I won't go into why I don't give a fuck what my "sisters"/community thinks because I have some pretty abrasive views, but I will say my resolve about my views are empowered by knowing I have a new community, the gay community, which I love and believe is viable.

    No no, elaborate, this is needed. Why does the clip put so much emphasis on the approbation of "black sisters"? If you can get rid of this false notion then you can liberate more and more people. I understand completely your notion of "a new gay family"

    But please please elaborate. I would sincerely appreciate it.
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    Nov 01, 2009 9:19 PM GMT
    I never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.
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    Nov 01, 2009 9:32 PM GMT
    I really like Don Lemon's reporting.
  • jgymnast733

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    Nov 01, 2009 9:46 PM GMT
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believer is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding a good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.

    I totally agree my friend,
    The numbers are staggering but black woman also need to keep their legs closed, it's shameful seeing the crazyness on the maury show [per example] and how frivoulously sexual some open up to anything moving..
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    Nov 01, 2009 10:07 PM GMT
    Good report, thanks for posting this. I watched it with my man. It does seem like it is tougher in the black community to be out. He has been out since he was 13 though. lol.

    I'm really happy Obama is FINALLY starting to address gay issues. I had been feeling left in the cold for a long time.
  • jgymnast733

    Posts: 1783

    Nov 01, 2009 10:22 PM GMT
    My father asked me if i was gay when i was about 11yrs old, he was fine with it and had an uncle who was very DL talk to me.. My uncle told me how being black and gay wasnt going to be easy and how i'll need to be better at everything because he said theres nothing sadder than an uneducated homosexual. The words stung but i knew what he was getting at...
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    Nov 01, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.



    I wouldn''t say they are generalizations based on ignorance. There is some truth. But black women and the black community has to accept the blame. The black community needs to teach black women that instead of looking for a good black man - they should look for a good man irrespective of the colour of his skin.

    But alas I fear this message would not go over well. Coz after all "black love" must be maintained at all cost
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    Nov 01, 2009 10:34 PM GMT
    jgymnast733 said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believer is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding a good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.

    I totally agree my friend,
    The numbers are staggering but black woman also need to keep their legs closed, it's shameful seeing the crazyness on the maury show [per example] and how frivoulously sexual some open up to anything moving..


    Kinda of like some gay men, right?
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    Nov 01, 2009 10:41 PM GMT
    RyanReBoRn said
    jgymnast733 said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believer is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding a good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.

    I totally agree my friend,
    The numbers are staggering but black woman also need to keep their legs closed, it's shameful seeing the crazyness on the maury show [per example] and how frivoulously sexual some open up to anything moving..


    Kinda of like some gay men, right?


    What do you mean kinda? Don't you mean exactly like?icon_razz.gif
  • Barricade

    Posts: 457

    Nov 01, 2009 10:55 PM GMT
    I can agree with everything that's been said but there are alot times when I don't necessarily relate to the gay community either. I remember right here on RJ after the election there were alot of posts aimed towards blacks about the Prop 8 vote. I dunno, it's good to see a thread like this though.
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    Nov 01, 2009 11:40 PM GMT
    Interesting.

    Stories such as this always reaffirm my central concept that homo people just need to come out. The more visible, the more undeniable, the more learning will occur, the comfortable people will become, the easier it will all be in the end.
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    Nov 01, 2009 11:51 PM GMT
    theantijock said Pardon the expression in this context, but how uppity to declare that embracing gays with the love of church and community will what, contain the spread of the disease from reaching out to unsuspecting str8 people? When will we tire of that?


    I don't think that's the crux of the message being communicated. It is more that the black community needs to be less condemning so that all members may live a more healthy and complete life
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    Nov 01, 2009 11:57 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    theantijock said Pardon the expression in this context, but how uppity to declare that embracing gays with the love of church and community will what, contain the spread of the disease from reaching out to unsuspecting str8 people? When will we tire of that?


    I don't think that's the crux of the message being communicated. It is more that the black community needs to be less condemning so that all members may live a more healthy and complete life



    Actually, it totally came across the way theantijock stated. What proof is there that the statistics are directly related to brothers on the down low or homosexuality for that matter?
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    Nov 02, 2009 12:03 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.



    I wouldn''t say they are generalizations based on ignorance. There is some truth. But black women and the black community has to accept the blame. The black community needs to teach black women that instead of looking for a good black man - they should look for a good man irrespective of the colour of his skin.

    But alas I fear this message would not go over well. Coz after all "black love" most be maintained at all cost



    Edit: No that won't go over well with some afrocentrists and their desire to be with only black men is totally valid. Also, I have doubts about whether you can teach or condition someone to be attracted to anyone.
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    Nov 02, 2009 12:16 AM GMT
    joeyveras said
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.



    I wouldn''t say they are generalizations based on ignorance. There is some truth. But black women and the black community has to accept the blame. The black community needs to teach black women that instead of looking for a good black man - they should look for a good man irrespective of the colour of his skin.

    But alas I fear this message would not go over well. Coz after all "black love" most be maintained at all cost



    No that won't go over well with afrocentrists and they're desire to be with only black men is totally valid. Also, I have doubts about whether you can teach or condition someone to be attracted to anyone.


    That's exactly what the problem is-afrocentrists. Just because you may happen to fall in love with someone of a different ethnicity does not mean you are less afro centric. How come other black people in other parts of the world tend not to have these sort of issues so much?

    I think being attracted to someone is conditioning. It can be broken. Is it easy, perhaps not, but it can be broken.

    When we stop conditioning our children and young to only think of a mate in terms of someone of their own ethnicity - then we will have less of these issues.
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    Nov 02, 2009 12:35 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras said
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.



    I wouldn''t say they are generalizations based on ignorance. There is some truth. But black women and the black community has to accept the blame. The black community needs to teach black women that instead of looking for a good black man - they should look for a good man irrespective of the colour of his skin.

    But alas I fear this message would not go over well. Coz after all "black love" most be maintained at all cost



    No that won't go over well with afrocentrists and they're desire to be with only black men is totally valid. Also, I have doubts about whether you can teach or condition someone to be attracted to anyone.


    That's exactly what the problem is-afrocentrists. Just because you may happen to fall in love with someone of a different ethnicity does not mean you are less afro centric. How come other black people in other parts of the world tend not to have these sort of issues so much?

    I think being attracted to someone is conditioning. It can be broken. Is it easy, perhaps not, but it can be broken.

    When we stop conditioning our children and young to only think of a mate in terms of someone of their own ethnicity - then we will have less of these issues.




    OOH! You bring up a point for another thread I suppose. Are we conditioned to be attracted to a certain type, race, GENDER? Hmmm. It would be interesting to get others views on this. I have my doubts.

    I agree, afrocentrists can date outside their race and be just as afrocentric but that doesn't address the issue for those women who are just naturally attracted to only black men.
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    Nov 02, 2009 12:41 AM GMT
    joeyveras said
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras said
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.



    I wouldn''t say they are generalizations based on ignorance. There is some truth. But black women and the black community has to accept the blame. The black community needs to teach black women that instead of looking for a good black man - they should look for a good man irrespective of the colour of his skin.

    But alas I fear this message would not go over well. Coz after all "black love" most be maintained at all cost


    o that won't go over well with afrocentrists and they're desire to be with only black men is totally valid. Also, I have doubts about whether you can teach or condition someone to be attracted to anyone.


    That's exactly what the problem is-afrocentrists. Just because you may happen to fall in love with someone of a different ethnicity does not mean you are less afro centric. How come other black people in other parts of the world tend not to have these sort of issues so much?

    I think being attracted to someone is conditioning. It can be broken. Is it easy, perhaps not, but it can be broken.

    When we stop conditioning our children and young to only think of a mate in terms of someone of their own ethnicity - then we will have less of these issues.




    OOH! You bring up a point for another thread I suppose. Are we conditioned to be attracted to a certain type, race, GENDER? Hmmm. It would be interesting to get others views on this. I have my doubts.

    I agree, afrocentrists can date outside their race and be just as afrocentric but that doesn't address the issue for those women who are just naturally attracted to only black men.


    There's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone of your own ethnicty. We need and welcome such. But surely there's enough room for everyone on the spectrum. What I'm talking about is more the idea that if you are attracted to someone of a different ethnicity that you are someone letting down your own "race". This is a common held belief in many ethnicities and
    especially so among American Blacks. That's why surveys show that blacks are less likely of all ethnicities to date outside. Even if it means that they will in all probability end up alone.
  • jgymnast733

    Posts: 1783

    Nov 02, 2009 12:55 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    RyanReBoRn said
    jgymnast733 said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believer is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding a good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.

    I totally agree my friend,
    The numbers are staggering but black woman also need to keep their legs closed, it's shameful seeing the crazyness on the maury show [per example] and how frivoulously sexual some open up to anything moving..


    Kinda of like some gay men, right?


    What do you mean kinda? Don't you mean exactly like?icon_razz.gif

    Not me ya'll [looking away shy]..icon_exclaim.gif
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    Nov 02, 2009 12:57 AM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras said
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras said
    Blackguy4you said
    joeyveras saidI never knew that the leading cause of death among black women 18-34 was HIV. But I cringe at the notion that it's due to "brothers on the down low". I'd like to see more information on this.

    There is this perception, which I believe is largely based on popular black comedian's commentary, that black women have slim pickings when it comes to finding good black men. There is this notion that all the "good brothers" are either marrying outside of the race or gay. These are generalizations based on ignorance.



    I wouldn''t say they are generalizations based on ignorance. There is some truth. But black women and the black community has to accept the blame. The black community needs to teach black women that instead of looking for a good black man - they should look for a good man irrespective of the colour of his skin.

    But alas I fear this message would not go over well. Coz after all "black love" most be maintained at all cost


    There's nothing wrong with being attracted to someone of your own ethnicty. We need and welcome such. But surely there's enough room for everyone on the spectrum. What I'm talking about is more the idea that if you are attracted to someone of a different ethnicity that you are someone letting down your own "race". This is a common held belief in many ethnicities and
    especially so among American Blacks. That's why surveys show that blacks are less likely of all ethnicities to date outside. Even if it means that they will in all probability end up alone.


    No that won't go over well with afrocentrists and they're desire to be with only black men is totally valid. Also, I have doubts about whether you can teach or condition someone to be attracted to anyone.


    That's exactly what the problem is-afrocentrists. Just because you may happen to fall in love with someone of a different ethnicity does not mean you are less afro centric. How come other black people in other parts of the world tend not to have these sort of issues so much?

    I think being attracted to someone is conditioning. It can be broken. Is it easy, perhaps not, but it can be broken.

    When we stop conditioning our children and young to only think of a mate in terms of someone of their own ethnicity - then we will have less of these issues.




    OOH! You bring up a point for another thread I suppose. Are we conditioned to be attracted to a certain type, race, GENDER? Hmmm. It would be interesting to get others views on this. I have my doubts.

    I agree, afrocentrists can date outside their race and be just as afrocentric but that doesn't address the issue for those women who are just naturally attracted to only black men.



    Hey Bud! disregard my email. I found your last post (bold above). We're talking about two different things. haha!