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"Republicans are authoritarian at heart" is what a prominent socialist / Marxist wrote in another topic on here.

My response:

This is the clearest illustration yet of how backwards your thinking is. And by extension, since most of you agree with him, most of the membership here.

Authoritarian is the government mandating that you must have health insurance coverage.

Authoritarian is the idea that compensation of employees at publicly held companies (think stock exchange, not GM or Citi which are government owned) should be limited.

I could go on.... but I'm sure the 2 other people on here who are not liberal / socialist / Marxists / Democrats get my point.... and the rest of you won't no matter how many examples I give.

I'd label right-wingers, and the current crop of prominent US Republican leaders, as conformists. Authoritarianism often derives from that, but is not a requirement. Nevertheless, "if you do not willingly conform to our values, we will make you" is the attitude that can lead to the draconian & hostile measures often associated with Republicans. Conformity is the psychological foundation, while excess in the imposition of conforming authority is often the result.

Left-wingers & liberals tend to be free-thinkers and non-conformists, their frequent fault being an undisciplined & disorganized approach to problem solving, which undermines their political & practical effectiveness. They think with their hearts, not with their heads, while Republicans favor their heads, the very existence of a heart among them being somewhat doubtful.

As for your list of examples, try these on for size:

Authoritarianism is declaring "You are either with us or against us" in a democracy, and then applying that philosophy as much to our own citizens as to our enemies, in the form of illegal domestic wiretaps & surveillance, violation of Habeas Corpus and due process, and corrupting and interfering with the Press.

Authoritarianism is attempting to implement the unprecedented concept of a "Unitary Presidency" superior to the other branches of the US government, a virtual dictatorship, in clear contravention of the US Constitution.

Authoritarianism is sending out non-local disruptors to community meetings, hearings and other gatherings, to deny citizens their right to hear & discuss public issues openly & freely, and to crush dissent & opposition.

Authoritarianism is a party platform that seeks to deny Constitutional rights to a class of citizens based solely on their sexual preference, because their orientation does not conform to religious teachings that the US Constitution specifically forbids from being the basis for US law.

I could go on... but the ingrained denial response of the conformist mind will reject all evidence & logic that runs counter to its rigid beliefs.

actually governments are authoritarian at heart.

Every democratic society has a number of issues that it sees as fundamental freedoms, but it trades them for limitations of freedom which is hardly notices. In the UK, for example, it is pretty much impossible to go out of your house without being recorded on a security camera. That is state surveillance, not freedom. Also in the UK, councils have been using legislation that was introduced to track terrorist suspects to follow parents who the council suspected of using fake addresses so that they could send their kids to a better school that was not in their district. Freedom?

The left, the right... largely irrelevant: with both you have some things which make you feel free, and a huge number of constraints that mean you are not in certain ways. (It is true though, that any ideologue is authoritarian, whether that be a religious right conservative, or a communist leftie: they all see nothing wrong with imposing their believes on others)

There is a method to this madness of chaos and obstructionism that is the hallmark of modern Republicanism. It is to do politically what Naomi Klein detailed in her economic analysis in the "Shock Doctrine"; it is to so bollix and confuse and make feel vulnerable the displaced white working and middle class that they will turn to authoritarian leadership out of fear. Fear is the cudgel of the GOP leadership across the nation, and the "victimization" of white people (particularly the white male) is the emotional drumbeat of the right wing media echo chamber. Together, PMI-001 they have converged to ignite the Townhall Terrorists and create an incipient threat of violence and revolt against democracy in order to establish a white rightwing tyrannical corporate government with a GOP leadership. The corporations that now basically run the government need four things to achieve their goals of unregulated global commerce: 1) politicians in their pocket; 2) corporate/GOP media that conveys propaganda instead of truth; 3) anxious white Americans fed fear by winger media; and 4) entrenched wealth willing to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a shadow propaganda ministry of think tanks, "analysts," government regulators on the take, etc. 350-029 Together, this merger of media, corporations (which owns the mainstream media) and government is called fascism. Fascism uses scapegoats -- "liberals" -- and lies fostered by the likes of an army of high-paid media "Tokyo Roses" to keep the working class and racists pumped up in their "victimhood" and resentment that democracy has evolved into an America that is no longer a nation of "white entitlement." But all this is accomplished for one reason: to ensure that the U.S. government meets the needs of the multi-national corporations and not the citizens of the state. The battle we have been facing since the '60s boils down to this: does America exist to fulfill the destiny of the majority of its population or does it exist to enhance the economic wealth of its corporations? The Townhall Terrorists (who are losing out economically by the very corporations using them as shock troops) are useful tools for the latter, egged on by media shills who are experts in demagoguery. 642-586 BuzzFlash has been publishing for almost 10 years, but the pernicious impact of the corporate mainsteam media remains the most threatening gun aimed at the heart of our Constitution. And it continues to win victory after victory in the propaganda wars, given that Democratic administrations never really have been able to counter the false framing and lies that come out of television news, in particular. Yes, we have made some inroads on MSNBC, but Rachel and Keith are preaching to the converted -- and GE will jettison them whenever they go too far in threatening the parent company's corporate profits (much of it based on the defense industry and the likes of nuclear power).

coleman saidThere is a method to this madness of chaos and obstructionism that is the hallmark of modern Republicanism...

Well, it worked again in many places with yesterday's election. BTW, one of mankind's greatest inventions is the paragraph break, and it's in the public domain so you can use it for free all you like!

Southbeach !!! To some degree I can see where your coming from by the example you used, but only if you were able to get away with being correct in isolating the aspect of Health Care Reform that you mentioned. You cannot do so and be correct because when you look at the whole story of the Health Care Reform it is not Authoritarian at all, it is a prominent benefit for US citizens and hardly something to disdain. Wherever societies in the world have Universal Health Care for its citizens it has huge success. Republicans are Authoritarian by the fact that their christian right base in mass looks to an authoritarian mindset as their creed to live by. Its their way only, look at how bush/cheney led for 8 years, it was totally that mindset of we are right, god is on our side so we can do what we think best. These aren't mental giants, its their mental smallness that leads them to follow such authoritarianism.

realifedad said Southbeach !!! To some degree I can see where your coming from by the example you used, but only if you were able to get away with being correct in isolating the aspect of Health Care Reform that you mentioned. You cannot do so and be correct because when you look at the whole story of the Health Care Reform it is not Authoritarian at all, it is a prominent benefit for US citizens and hardly something to disdain.

And if I don't offer health care that the government approves of to my employees, I get punished (fined).

And if I as a private citizen decide not to be covered by a health care policy, I have to pay a fine.

realifedad said Wherever societies in the world have Universal Health Care for its citizens it has huge success.

I know we certainly won't agree on this one. Canada, the UK... people there have to wait months for test or procedures that we in the USA have access to far more quickly.

realifedad saidRepublicans are Authoritarian by the fact that their christian right base in mass looks to an authoritarian mindset as their creed to live by.

What public policy can you cite that will prove this?

realifedad saidIts their way only, look at how bush/cheney led for 8 years, it was totally that mindset of we are right, god is on our side so we can do what we think best.

So, just because some (or in your statement ALL) Republicans attend religious services and believe in a supreme being (God), that makes the Republican party an authoritarian party? I suppose there are no Democrats who attend religious services and believe in a supreme being / God.

southbeach1500 said
I know we certainly won't agree on this one. Canada, the UK... people there have to wait months for test or procedures that we in the USA have access to far more quickly.

And you have how much experience of the health care in the UK? I´ve been using it since I came back here and let me tell you it´s days, not months. And there is not absurdly inflated bill for it. I called the hospital this morning and was offered an appointment for tommorrow afternoon. Free at point of use. So please don´t use the "it doesn´t work" argument. Big health care systems have real problems, naturally, but I prefer that to the "I´m rich, fuck you" of the american system.

Lostboy said

southbeach1500 said
I know we certainly won't agree on this one. Canada, the UK... people there have to wait months for test or procedures that we in the USA have access to far more quickly.

And you have how much experience of the health care in the UK? I´ve been using it since I came back here and let me tell you it´s days, not months. And there is not absurdly inflated bill for it. I called the hospital this morning and was offered an appointment for tommorrow afternoon. Free at point of use. So please don´t use the "it doesn´t work" argument. Big health care systems have real problems, naturally, but I prefer that to the "I´m rich, fuck you" of the american system.

You cite anecdotal evidence.

But that's fine. Let's get the 2000 page health bill passed and signed into law. I'm sure you will be quite happy with the "public option" or, as Nancy Pelosi is now calling it, "the competitive option" provided by the government.

Please, do post objective evidence that people wait months in Canada and the UK for basic medical services. Also, please tell me how health insurance is related to health care.

And are you really in a position to complain about anecdotal evidence? When I showed you medical research in peer reviewed journals about sexual dysfunction and circumcision, when I told you that your assumptions about keratinization, exfoliation, and the foreskin were not only unsupported by evidence, but logically nonsensical, you appealed to the 13 or so guys you have talked to about foreskin restoration....

Please stop being a hypocrite.

MunchingZombie saidPlease, do post objective evidence that people wait months in Canada and the UK for basic medical services. Also, please tell me how health insurance is related to health care.

And are you really in a position to complain about anecdotal evidence? When I showed you medical research in peer reviewed journals about sexual dysfunction and circumcision, when I told you that your assumptions about keratinization, exfoliation, and the foreskin were not only unsupported by evidence, but logically nonsensical, you appealed to the 13 or so guys you have talked to about foreskin restoration....

Please stop being a hypocrite.

I'm not a hypocrite... you are just not capable of understanding.

Go look up the info yourself, just like I did.

You are full of shit.

Please, post the research you are citing. And please tell me how admitting anecdotal evidence is fine when it serves your purpose, but not when it doesn't.

As I say: you have how much experience of the UK or Canadian systems?





Thought so. Permanent block.

The only measure by which the US is number 1 in health care is %GDP

meaningful metrics such as Quality, Outcome, Accessibility, Satisfaction, Wait Time, Innovation, Affordability .... The US ranks below the top 10 in all of these

MunchingZombie saidYou are full of shit.

Please, post the research you are citing. And please tell me how admitting anecdotal evidence is fine when it serves your purpose, but not when it doesn't.

No I'm not, I'm just on the opposing side of the issue.

Then please support your claim with facts.

southbeach1500 saidI'm just on the opposing side of the issue.

or maybe just an obstructionist

this thread is so much more enjoyable without being able to see the OP

Well "here we go again" as one Republican once stated.... I think Southbeach likes to come across this way just to irritate and encourage
our participation... LOL

I would think Republican authoritarianism here might apply to things like
"choice" or the lack of it

The Republican ideal of "a family" as a man and woman and no flexibility.

and above all... if you question.. you aren't patriotic.....

Lostboy saidthis thread is so much more enjoyable without being able to see the OP

Coward.

I have no idea what the OP is on about, Lostboy, but it doesn't take a Ph.D. to guess.

Democrats bad, socialism bad, Republicans good, fascism good. Bla bla fucking bla.

Life is so much nicer without reading his inanities.

jprichva saidI have no idea what the OP is on about, Lostboy, but it doesn't take a Ph.D. to guess.

Democrats bad, socialism bad, Republicans good, fascism good. Bla bla fucking bla.

Life is so much nicer without reading his inanities.

Too bad you are still able to see the threads that I start, though.... How can that be? If you click the "Ignore His Posts" link, it should also block posts started by the blocked person too, no?

Well, anyway....

HndsmKansan saidWell "here we go again" as one Republican once stated.... I think Southbeach likes to come across this way just to irritate and encourage
our participation... LOL

I would think Republican authoritarianism here might apply to things like
"choice" or the lack of it

The Republican ideal of "a family" as a man and woman and no flexibility.

and above all... if you question.. you aren't patriotic.....

As I said above, it's all about conformity. You are either with us or you are against us. Republicans can't tolerate any variation from the rigid party line. That's what authoritarianism is all about, and what Republicans are all about.

Red_Vespa saidAs I said above, it's all about conformity. You are either with us or you are against us. Republicans can't tolerate any variation from the rigid party line. That's what authoritarianism is all about, and what Republicans are all about.

Seems like you have described political discussions here on RJ... If you are not a liberal Democrat and you do not hate Republicans and Conservatives, you will not be tolerated. You will be shunned, ridiculed and berated.

So, at your own admission, there are TWO people in the world who agree with you. Not a very forceful argument to support your opinion.

Nearly all of the modern day Republican party is absolutely authoritarian. With them, it's "my way or the highway !"

A perfect example is their refusal to take part in the overhaul of health care.
Every single Republican plans to vote, "NO !" without even bothering to read the bill.

When it comes to war and the Defense Department, they vote, "AYE" on every single bill, sight unseen, unless you tack on a little legislation to protect GAYS from hate crimes.
They're saying it's OKAY to beat and kill gay people !
Stop and think about that for a few seconds.

Anytime it looks like the Republicans won't get their way on an issue, they don't try to compromise or even discuss it. They flood the media with lies and hatred and scare tactics.

George W. Bush said, "I don't mind a dictatorship, as long as I get to be the dictator !"

Webster666 saidSo, at your own admission, there are TWO people in the world who agree with you. Not a very forceful argument to support your opinion.

Sometimes I think there are only two people here in the gay ghetto that agree with me. (I think there *might* be a third person as well).

Webster666 saidNearly all of the modern day Republican party is absolutely authoritarian. With them, it's "my way or the highway !"

A perfect example is their refusal to take part in the overhaul of health care.
Every single Republican plans to vote, "NO !" without even bothering to read the bill.

My friend, there will be a similar number of Democrats voting "YES!" on the bill and they won't even bother reading it either.

Webster666 saidThey're saying it's OKAY to beat and kill gay people ! Stop and think about that for a few seconds.

Stop with the drama. You know as well as I do that nobody holding elected office in Congress today is saying that it is OK to beat and kill gay people.

Here Southbeach,


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


Mom was diagnosed with heart valve failure among other things and had surgery within 7 days. One year ago today!

meninlove said
Here Southbeach,


http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html


Mom was diagnosed with heart valve failure among other things and had surgery within 7 days. One year ago today!

What's the criteria? If the criteria is, "To get a high ranking on the list, the government must provide no-fee or low-fee health care or medical insurance to citizens" then I would expect the USA to be dead last on the list.

Does anyone on here truly believe that the quality of health care received by patients is better in Cyprus or Malta than here in the USA?

"Stop with the drama. You know as well as I do that nobody holding elected office in Congress today is saying that it is OK to beat and kill gay people."
_________________________________________
Who are you trying to kid ?

Until Congress passed legislation to protect gays from hate crimes, it was absolutely legal (in Federal law) to beat and kill gay people simply because they were gay.

You're certainly old enough to remember the "gay panic" defense, that murderers used quite successfully to be found not guilty.

And, your radical right wing Republican buddies, holding elected office in Congress, who would never in the world vote against a Defense Department bill, voted "NAY" on a Defense Department bill simply because it had a rider attached to it that made it illegal to beat up and/or kill gay people.

Webster666 said"Stop with the drama. You know as well as I do that nobody holding elected office in Congress today is saying that it is OK to beat and kill gay people."
_________________________________________
Who are you trying to kid ?

Until Congress passed legislation to protect gays from hate crimes, it was absolutely legal (in Federal law) to beat and kill gay people simply because they were gay.

You're certainly old enough to remember the "gay panic" defense, that murderers used quite successfully to be found not guilty.

And, your radical right wing Republican buddies, holding elected office in Congress, who would never in the world vote against a Defense Department bill, voted "NAY" on a Defense Department bill simply because it had a rider attached to it that made it illegal to beat up and/or kill gay people.

"It was absoilutely legal (in Federal law) to beat and kill gay people..."

Does anyone else believe this?

southbeach1500 said

Webster666 said"Stop with the drama. You know as well as I do that nobody holding elected office in Congress today is saying that it is OK to beat and kill gay people."
_________________________________________
Who are you trying to kid ?

Until Congress passed legislation to protect gays from hate crimes, it was absolutely legal (in Federal law) to beat and kill gay people simply because they were gay.

You're certainly old enough to remember the "gay panic" defense, that murderers used quite successfully to be found not guilty.

And, your radical right wing Republican buddies, holding elected office in Congress, who would never in the world vote against a Defense Department bill, voted "NAY" on a Defense Department bill simply because it had a rider attached to it that made it illegal to beat up and/or kill gay people.

"It was absoilutely legal (in Federal law) to beat and kill gay people..."

Does anyone else believe this?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>It was legal to the extent that federal Law wouldn't 'touch it' !! Federal law didn't place importance on the hate of gay people as the basis for crimes against them. So in the end federal law 'winked' at such crimes, so it was for all intents and purposes "legal" in the absence of being included in Federal Law as illegal.

It is beyond question that the Republican party, as it stands now, maintains two incompatible ideologies: a moral authoritarian one that is broadly speaking conservative christian, i.e. anti-abortion, anti-gay; a libertarian one that seeks to limit government intervention in markets.

Since the two philosophies are irreconcilable, it is easy to understand why the Republican party is so incoherent. It need not be so, but it is so.

TigerTim saidIt is beyond question that the Republican party, as it stands now, maintains two incompatible ideologies: a moral authoritarian one that is broadly speaking conservative christian, i.e. anti-abortion, anti-gay; a libertarian one that seeks to limit government intervention in markets.

Since the two philosophies are irreconcilable, it is easy to understand why the Republican party is so incoherent. It need not be so, but it is so.

Yes, if they would just take all that religious based stuff out of their platform and positions, I would sign up as a Republican ASAP.

But that's the one reason that I am not registered as a Republican. In my view, religion has no place in American politics or public policy.

Not all republicans are conservative authoritarians like a lot of people on this website have been brainwashed to believe. There are many democrats that can be authoritarian as well. I wish some of my fellow realjockers would wake up and smell the coffee about the reality of the democratic party. Yes the religious right wing has ruined the GOP but that does not mean that all republicans are no damn good. The GOP can be taken back from the religious lunatics and made a mainstream political party. I live in Buffalo, an old northern industrial city that has been under monopoly control of the democratic party since 1961. Since that time, Buffalo has suffered severe urban decline and disinvestment and the democrats have done little to stop this disastrous process. Detroit and Cleveland have also been under monopoly democratic control for almost 40 years and what happened to them, the same as Buffalo. In Detroit's case the worst urban and economic decline for a major American city. So much for the democrats being the best and most trustworthy leaders. Look at how Buffalo, Cleveland, and Detroit suffered under the uncontested democratic politicians.

The republicans, the democrats, the republicans the democrats, . What the hell happened to "We the People". Our country was founded as a Republic of nation states . Where in the Constitution does CONGRESS have the right to extort the American Public for health insurance, pay it in your taxes, pay for it with your employers program? Or pay for it out of your own pocket $15,000.00/ year. And if you will not comply , you are fined and even given 5 yrs. in prison[ happiness for some}.
The hate crimes BILL was meant to protect you from HATEFUL speech, Think about it ,free speech enabled us to become a recognized community,not everyone is going to agree with you on everthing you say or do.
If" Discretion is the better part of valor", I have no recollection of whom I am quoting, never the less, people gay straight or beastial, need to understand that the BEDROOM, KITCHEN or LIVINGROOM IS NO ONES business, and surely it is not the business of GOVERNMENT. And if you think it's Hot to have sex in public, you will probably be arrested. if your caught Simply on principle , because most People in general don't like it.Why should anyone feel they deserve respect if they do not respect their fellows! huh
OK
I've ranted enough
oh yeah your taxes will pay for all of the ILLEGAL ALIENS to get healthcare
BJZ

You LIE!