Are you capable of civil disobedience?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Nov 04, 2009 5:36 PM GMT
    One major difference between the gay rights movement and the civil rights movement for racial equality is the total absence of civil disobedience in the gay rights movement. If acts of civil disobedience were organized close by you, as part of the effort to attain equality, could you participate?

    I'm not talking about buying some oak tag and writing a slogan on it with a sharpie. I'm talking about sitting down on the street, stopping traffic, getting arrested, that kind of thing.
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    Nov 04, 2009 5:40 PM GMT
    McGay, that's a brilliant question. Honestly...I'm not even sure. Maybe that's something we all DO need to ponder, though.


    Edit: I've pondered. If it means ending up locked in a jail cell with dozens of other gay men, that could just be a video waiting to be made. But really seriously, yeah...I probably would.
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    Nov 04, 2009 5:46 PM GMT
    McGay saidOne major difference between the gay rights movement and the civil rights movement for racial equality is the total absence of civil disobedience in the gay rights movement. If acts of civil disobedience were organized close by you, as part of the effort to attain equality, could you participate?

    I'm not talking about buying some oak tag and writing a slogan on it with a sharpie. I'm talking about sitting down on the street, stopping traffic, getting arrested, that kind of thing.



    I don't care what the cause - if you block traffic you lose all my sympathy. There are many ways to get a point out there (e.g., boycotts and political action) without means like blocking traffic.
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    Nov 04, 2009 5:47 PM GMT
    Don't get your panties in a twist. Blocking traffic is just an example, but, from the tone of your reply, it seems quite effective in getting people's attention.
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    Nov 04, 2009 5:50 PM GMT
    McGay saidDon't get your panties in a twist. Blocking traffic is just an example, but, from the tone of your reply, it seems quite effective in getting people's attention.



    I am sure if you were late to work and lost money because of such actions you wouldn't be too happy about such means either. I say run over the fuckers and get traffic going ASAP!
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:02 PM GMT
    It worked for the civil rights movement of the 60s.

    You advocate for a good way to lose the use of your car, your license and a spell in jail.

    If we made people late for work often enough, they'd get the message.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:06 PM GMT
    McGay saidOne major difference between the gay rights movement and the civil rights movement for racial equality is the total absence of civil disobedience in the gay rights movement. If acts of civil disobedience were organized close by you, as part of the effort to attain equality, could you participate?

    I'm not talking about buying some oak tag and writing a slogan on it with a sharpie. I'm talking about sitting down on the street, stopping traffic, getting arrested, that kind of thing.


    Absosmurfly I am capable. I think we should all partner up this April and check the "Married Filing Jointly" box on our tax forms.
  • Timbales

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    Nov 04, 2009 6:09 PM GMT
    I don't know if civil disobedience would work in this day and age. I think hitting people in the wallet is more effective.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:09 PM GMT
    If a tax strike could be organized on a large scale, things might hit home for those concerned.

    I've asked our accounting department to stop taking withholding from my paycheck. I'll decide in April if I owe the gov't anything.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:11 PM GMT
    It seems the only possible way is to make a VERY concentrated effort to fuck over the American economy until rights are granted. That may mean gays stay home from work, don't pay taxes, don't shop for a week (hey that one may actually be the best) to really prove that we are a force to be reckoned with.

    And this notion of gays being only 10% or 3% of the population is a TOTAL bullshit number. I can guarantee that at least 50-75% of the entire male population has either had same-sex relations or fantasized about it.

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    Nov 04, 2009 6:13 PM GMT
    McGay saidIf a tax strike could be organized on a large scale, things might hit home for those concerned.

    I've asked our accounting department to stop taking withholding from my paycheck. I'll decide in April if I owe the gov't anything.


    That's using the theme of Taxation Without Representation very well, I think. After all, since we pay taxes, aren't we ENTITLED to the same rights as any other American?
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:13 PM GMT
    phemt said
    McGay saidDon't get your panties in a twist. Blocking traffic is just an example, but, from the tone of your reply, it seems quite effective in getting people's attention.



    I am sure if you were late to work and lost money because of such actions you wouldn't be too happy about such means either. I say run over the fuckers and get traffic going ASAP!


    Someone values the free circulation of traffic above his rights as a citizen. Interesting.

    I´ve thought for a while that some sort of campaign of tax withholding, on the basis that they can´t expect full taxes from people who are not given full rights would be a good protest...
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:15 PM GMT
    zeebyaboi said
    McGay said After all, since we pay taxes, aren't we ENTITLED to the same rights as any other American?


    Are you implying gays are...equal!? MADNES I SAY.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:23 PM GMT
    Lostboy said
    phemt said
    McGay saidDon't get your panties in a twist. Blocking traffic is just an example, but, from the tone of your reply, it seems quite effective in getting people's attention.



    I am sure if you were late to work and lost money because of such actions you wouldn't be too happy about such means either. I say run over the fuckers and get traffic going ASAP!


    Someone values the free circulation of traffic above his rights as a citizen. Interesting.

    I´ve thought for a while that some sort of campaign of tax withholding, on the basis that they can´t expect full taxes from people who are not given full rights would be a good protest...


    It is not a matter of either or. One can support gay marriage (or any cause) while being against protest involving blocking traffic. Blocking traffic causes harm to people who have nothing to do with the issue. Several of those people losing money due to the blockage might actually be supporters of the cause.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:34 PM GMT
    What we really should do is direct our efforts to directly opposing those working against us. Like a modern day "tar and feathering" of the "tories" among us. There are closted politicans, priest, etc working against us - they should be exposed and outed. There are gays supporting institustions (e.g., Catholic Church) actively working against us. We should do all we can to weaken such institutions and the Gay Uncle Toms supporting them. We should avoid giving money/support to those working against us. Instead we should give money/supporting to those supporting us - be it business, religious group etc.
  • JP85257

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    Nov 04, 2009 6:39 PM GMT
    What are we protesting or civilly disobeying for ?
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:41 PM GMT
    phemt saidI don't care what the cause - if you block traffic you lose all my sympathy. There are many ways to get a point out there (e.g., boycotts and political action) without means like blocking traffic.

    The point of "civil disobedience" is to be heard, start a dialogue, piss people off so they take notice. Civil disobedience arises when there is already a deplorable lack of sympathy or more importantly... empathy.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:46 PM GMT
    In San Francisco, once a month we have a movement called "Critical Mass". It is when THOUSANDS of bicyclists ride through the city and cause total grid lock. It's HIDEOUS! I HATE, HATE... (ok, maybe not "hate") it.
    It always makes me late, it is a problem for everyone.
    But what they are doing is taking a stand for cyclist rights and representation on a city level. It is because of acts like this that cyclist advocacy and rights are what they are. I cycle around the city and as much as it pisses me off and as much as I would NEVER ride in "Critical Ass"... I respect the point, because even though it inconveniences me, makes my life hell, has gotten me in a few fights with cyclists, the city is better place for everyone because of it.
    I respect them because that is important to them, just as important as the time when I march and make traffic stop and think about LGBT rights.
  • JP85257

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    Nov 04, 2009 6:50 PM GMT
    peterstrong saidCIVIL RIGHTS EQUALITY

    DADT & DOMA bro

    Military - Don't ask Don't tell
    Civil rights - defense of marriage act


    ?
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:51 PM GMT
    No, I would not. Because our issue has a lot of gray area that we need to address with people who don't feel connected to our struggle at all. I feel that I'm most effective in breaking down many misconceptions in a more direct manner.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:55 PM GMT
    joeyveras saidNo, I would not. Because our issue has a lot of gray area that we need to address with people who don't feel connected to our struggle at all. I feel that I'm most effective in breaking down many misconceptions in a more direct manner.

    That is absolutely & totally respectable.
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    Nov 04, 2009 6:56 PM GMT
    EasilyDistracted said
    phemt saidI don't care what the cause - if you block traffic you lose all my sympathy. There are many ways to get a point out there (e.g., boycotts and political action) without means like blocking traffic.

    The point of "civil disobedience" is to be heard, start a dialogue, piss people off so they take notice. Civil disobedience arises when there is already a deplorable lack of sympathy or more importantly... empathy.


    We have a lot of sympathy for our cause. In both Maine and California gay marriage failed by only a few % points. A few States already allow gay marriage. Sodomy laws have been struck down. These changes largely resulted from political and court action. Even though we are a small minority we have a strong political lobbying force - one that will only get stronger. If gays go around fucking with people's daliy lives we we lose the slow and steady acceptance we have been gaining over the years with the general public. There is a time for radical movements, but now is the time for slow steady empowerment by social,political, and economic means. I am all for demonstrations and boycotts, but to go over the top with blocking traffic, or refusing to pay taxes will only sever to erode public support for our cause at this time. The best things gays can do now is to come out to your friends and family ( so they "know" us), and make sure your elected officals know you are out there.
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    Nov 04, 2009 7:08 PM GMT
    EasilyDistracted saidIn San Francisco, once a month we have a movement called "Critical Mass". It is when THOUSANDS of bicyclists ride through the city and cause total grid lock. It's HIDEOUS! I HATE, HATE... (ok, maybe not "hate") it.
    It always makes me late, it is a problem for everyone.
    But what they are doing is taking a stand for cyclist rights and representation on a city level. It is because of acts like this that cyclist advocacy and rights are what they are. I cycle around the city and as much as it pisses me off and as much as I would NEVER ride in "Critical Ass"... I respect the point, because even though it inconveniences me, makes my life hell, has gotten me in a few fights with cyclists, the city is better place for everyone because of it.
    I respect them because that is important to them, just as important as the time when I march and make traffic stop and think about LGBT rights.


    I wonder how many cops or ambulances were delayed responding to 911 calls because of the blocked traffic. You ever think about that? If anyone died because the cops or ambluances were not able to get there in time is it the fault of those that knew they were blocking traffic!
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    Nov 04, 2009 7:11 PM GMT
    I would be all for it if I didn't have my partner's son to take care of.
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    Nov 04, 2009 7:13 PM GMT
    Apples and Oranges. I think the protests by Critical Mass in SF is great for THAT cause. They don't need to say anything to get their point across. We need to engage in dialogue in order to break down misconceptions and educate people who are too careless to find out for themselves.