I'd like some opinions on this (beware - it's not very interesting)

  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 06, 2009 4:16 PM GMT
    I was driving to work yesterday and got into an accident.

    I was driving down a residential street within the city limits. My daytime running lights were on. The street has no lines or markings and allows odd/even parking from 6AM to 6PM. City speed limit is 35mph.

    There was a city-owned John Deere loader driving a car ahead of me going about 15 mph. It's leaf collection time, and the city uses these to collect leaves and dump them into the back of a truck. The loader was by itself at the time and had it's warning lights flashing.

    When the road straightened out and there was no oncoming traffic, the car ahead of me passed the loader. I looked to make sure it was still clear (it was) put on my turn signal and passed the loader.

    As I was just about to clear him on the left, he started to turn left on the a side street and the corner of the front bucket impacted the rear passenger quarter panel and took out my tail light assembly.

    I immediately pulled over to the shoulder and put on my flashers.

    When police arrived at the scene, I was calm, had my paperwork waiting and told the officer everything that happened.

    I was ticketed for failure to keep right.


    I've checked the NYS DMV driver's manual, at from what I can see I didn't make an illegal pass. Do you think I have a chance if I try to fight this? I've never had points on my license and I know this will impact my insurance.
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:19 PM GMT
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:20 PM GMT

    Not sure Timberoo, but it sounds like you passed him on the left in an intersection.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 06, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:25 PM GMT
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  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 06, 2009 4:26 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Not sure Timberoo, but it sounds like you passed him on the left in an intersection.


    I started the pass before the intersection, but didn't complete before clearing it. That's where I'm in the wrong?
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:27 PM GMT

    It's not so interesting when it speaks. icon_smile.gif
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:31 PM GMT
    I guess the cop wasn't interested in getting your digits for a future date. Shucks.
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:45 PM GMT
    Timberoo said
    meninlove said
    Not sure Timberoo, but it sounds like you passed him on the left in an intersection.


    I started the pass before the intersection, but didn't complete before clearing it. That's where I'm in the wrong?


    Because you were passing, the responsibility of passing prior to reaching the intersection (i.e. passing safely and legally) is your's.

    If you can prove or cast doubt on the legality of your your action, then by all means fight it. The benefit of the doubt is always for the city not you, so if you decide to fight it and present a reasonable argument without aknowledging any wrongdoing or ignorance of the law, the court may let you off with a minor fee and no mark (i.e. points) on your record.
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:46 PM GMT
    It is always worth it to fight these things. Though, passing him at an intersection was a bad idea.
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:48 PM GMT
    I don't think you should have received a ticket. You were being cautious and careful. The other driver turned left into your back right quarter. He hit you, which he would not have done had he looked left before turning. I'd go take a few pictures of the site, and show up in court (with that clean record) and I'd respectfully try to fight it. Do the whole 'blue blazer - conservative tie' look for the judge...........it will set you leagues ahead of the jeans and t-shirt crowd and the judge just might see that you're a stand-up guy - - earnestly trying to do the right thing. Explain you were not in a hurry, not speeding, just like the other car - you thought it safer to go around the John Deere machine. Good luck!
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 06, 2009 4:48 PM GMT
    It sounds like I was indeed wrong, and that being the case, I'll own it. I'm not going to try and get out of something I know I did. I'm just glad there was no damage to the city vehicle or else I'd be in deep shit.
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    Nov 06, 2009 4:56 PM GMT
    Timberoo saidIt sounds like I was indeed wrong, and that being the case, I'll own it. I'm not going to try and get out of something I know I did. I'm just glad there was no damage to the city vehicle or else I'd be in deep shit.


    Plead innocent and ask for a trial. You'll have a much better chance of having the ticket dismissed or plea-bargained down.
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Nov 06, 2009 5:00 PM GMT
    From an insurance experts point of view. You were in the wrong. In all technical terms of speaking. I hate to say it.

    If your tail light is busted just find a wrecking yard, get a used on and dont bother filing a claim. It will most likely be under your deductible and it will just be a strike on your insurance claim record.

    Any questions just PM me.
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    Nov 06, 2009 5:00 PM GMT

    Up here the onus is on the one passing, if the guy ahead of you has indicated with signalling, before you began to pass, that his intent was to turn left.


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    Nov 06, 2009 5:00 PM GMT
    oh, Timber..don't be silly.

    Of course you were passing illegally...but that shouldn't stop you from fighting it. Thats one of the cornerstones of the American justice system.

    Many times the officer won't show up to testify against you, or the driver of the loader won't be there...you could get the ticket thrown out.

    You're not saying you're innocent...you're just making the State prove its case against you. Everyone has that right...especially if you think it's going to affect your insurance.

    As a prosecutor I had to take tons of cases to trial where EVERYONE knew the defendant was guilty, but he just wanted his day in court. Can't begrudge anyone that...it's one of the reasons America was founded...
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    Nov 06, 2009 5:46 PM GMT
    In most states I am sure the rule is no lane changes within 100 feet of an intersection. If he was doing 15mph (22ft per sec) you needed at least 200+ feet to get around him before getting to the intersection. Sorry its the geek in me, I can't help it. Sounds to me like you botched your timing, but you can always fight it, you might get lucky and someone forgets to show up at court.

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    Nov 06, 2009 6:06 PM GMT
    It sounds like it might have made an illegal pass, I'm not familiar with NY driving rules but I know passing in an intersection is not allowed in California.
    Its definitely worth looking into further. If it isn't clearly defined in the drivers manual (passing in an intersection) then you clearly had the right of way and the other vehicle didn't yield to it.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Nov 06, 2009 6:44 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    It's not so interesting when it speaks. icon_smile.gif


    Beverly Leslie, as I live and drink.
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    Nov 06, 2009 6:49 PM GMT
    tommysguns2000 said Many times the officer won't show up to testify against you, or the driver of the loader won't be there...you could get the ticket thrown out.


    I've gotten all my own tickets dismissed this way. A typical traffic court will have dozens of cases on its trial docket each day and they can't possibly try them all. Just show up with a stack of exhibits, Xeroxed cases, and a thick file. The traffic prosecutors aren't exactly the stars of their profession. They'll see you're prepared to defend your case and they'll either dismiss it or give it away.
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    Nov 06, 2009 6:50 PM GMT
    Typically if you "fight" points are dropped all together and the fine is typicall lowered to a more nomial fee -- even if you don't win the argument.

    I say go for it!!! Sounds like you were in the right my man.
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    Nov 06, 2009 6:52 PM GMT
    Was there a stop light or a 4-way stop sign at this junction where he turned onto the side street? If there wasn't, then you were correct in assuming that you could pass this vehicle who I understand gave no signal to warn you not to pass. He was obligated to make sure when he turned that no traffic would be impacted. So you may well win in court if I'm understanding the situation correctly, I've won some cases, one even by mail to the court system in another state that I was traveling through, and it never hurts to try.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 06, 2009 6:58 PM GMT
    realifedad said Was there a stop light or a 4-way stop sign at this junction where he turned onto the side street? If there wasn't, then you were correct in assuming that you could pass this vehicle who I understand gave no signal to warn you not to pass. He was obligated to make sure when he turned that no traffic would be impacted. So you may well win in court if I'm understanding the situation correctly, I've won some cases, one even by mail to the court system in another state that I was traveling through, and it never hurts to try.


    It wasn't a 4-way stop and there were no lights. The street were were on did not have stop signs for the intersection, but the side street had stop signs for the people coming off it.
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    Nov 06, 2009 7:06 PM GMT
    Timberoo said
    realifedad said Was there a stop light or a 4-way stop sign at this junction where he turned onto the side street? If there wasn't, then you were correct in assuming that you could pass this vehicle who I understand gave no signal to warn you not to pass. He was obligated to make sure when he turned that no traffic would be impacted. So you may well win in court if I'm understanding the situation correctly, I've won some cases, one even by mail to the court system in another state that I was traveling through, and it never hurts to try.


    It wasn't a 4-way stop and there were no lights. The street were were on did not have stop signs for the intersection, but the side street had stop signs for the people coming off it.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then I would fight this as long as the guy driving that city vehicle didn't turn on any signal which would have warned you not to pass. if he didn't I don't see how the ticket could stick. good luck on this !!
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    Nov 06, 2009 7:38 PM GMT
    I think the guy driving the tractor was partially at fault here. I mean, your lights were on, you signaled.. the tractor driver either wasn't paying attention or he was being a dick and wanted to see how close he could clip you.

    I don't have any advice on whether or not you should fight the ticket. If you do decide to fight, then be prepared. Have diagrams. Understand the driving rules. And present a strong case on why you should not have received the ticket.