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Nov 07, 2009 4:23 PM GMT
ya know... just for shits and giggles.
or for some other reason?
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Nov 07, 2009 4:33 PM GMT
Uhhh, politicians? In the US, the more prominent you are in politics, the greater the pressure to be seen in church. Needless (and sad) to say.
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Nov 07, 2009 4:37 PM GMT
Hunter9 saidya know... just for shits and giggles.
or for some other reason? No, but I know a few that celebrate Christmas. |
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Nov 07, 2009 4:49 PM GMT
Wow! Do some people have that kind of free time on their hands? I'm envious.
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Nov 07, 2009 7:16 PM GMT
Well, literally I "go" there because it's a small town and the church is one of three buildings large enough to have meetings or concerts in. The only time I go to a religious ceremony is to support a friend or neighbor at something like a wedding or a funeral, or a musical performance.
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Nov 07, 2009 7:30 PM GMT
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Nov 07, 2009 7:54 PM GMT
Yeah my familys pretty religious, my sisters are confirmed in catholic and Anglican churchs and I'll drag myself along to appease my farther for their cerimonies and at Xmas or family funerals and such
I used to do a lot of volunteer work with church youth services but the church leaders know full well where I stand on things and I decided I couldn't take the hypocricy and tension
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Nov 07, 2009 7:58 PM GMT
Used to go for the sake of my family & friends, but I just can't swing it anymore. It's the same thing over and over again - what are they thinking about?
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Nov 07, 2009 8:22 PM GMT
I only go if I´m paid.
I get enough mindless crap on RJ. No need to leave the house.
Drew, Jawrhed... get your coats. You´ve pulled.
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Nov 07, 2009 8:23 PM GMT
I actually do attend religious observances of my Wiccan friends, for the following reasons:
1. These people are a BLAST to hang with. I particularly remember one all-night winter solstice vigil (Yule - 12/22) where we played a rather bent version of the board game Payday. I do not think I have EVER laughed so hard in my life.
2. They are sex positive. (Check the Charge of the Goddess, in particular the phrase; ALL acts of LOVE and PLEASURE are My rituals.)
3. They are homosex positive. See #2 above. The High Priest and High Priestess also did the handfasting (Pagan marriage ceremony) for myself and my ex. I would have had no one else do it.
4. On the mythological/allegorical/conceptual/psychological levels, the Wiccan mythos rings true for me. Being duotheists, they see divinity as divided into two - male and female, which they call God and Goddess. What is that but anima and animus? They speak of the elements (fire, water, air and earth) as requiring balance. This is no different than saying one's passions and or sex drive (fire), emotions (water), thoughts (air) and physical (either of body and or money) must be in balance. You will be out of balance if you place your head (air/thoughts) above your heart (water/emotions) and vice versa, as examples.
5. They are honest. The High Priest gives classes titled specifically as 'The MYTHS of Wicca.'
6. I have always detested fall and winter. I hate the cold. The Wiccan holidays, falling on the solstices and equinoxes, in some odd way, actually help me to prepare/accept the changing of the seasons.
They know I am atheist and don't believe a word of it, at least in any literal sense, but they also know I do get it on the conceptual/allegorical level.
Of course, this may not be AT ALL what you had in mind about atheists attending 'church,' but it is what it is and this group is a legally licensed church with legally licensed clergy.
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Nov 07, 2009 8:29 PM GMT
Last time I went, I got hit on by a man (in his defense, I was wearing a tight black top verging on see-through, my bad), which sorta pissed me off, so I said screw it.
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Nov 07, 2009 8:31 PM GMT
Will never step foot in one! Even after my parents and brother passed 10 yrs ago, I would not go to the church services. (They passed within 3 mos of one another so there were 3 separate services.) The only time I would like to be inside of a church, is if I am setting the explosives for a demolition crew.  As a matter of fact, I just won a court case against the local govt here, because I was denied an absentee ballot. They vote in a bloody church!  When I filled out the absentee form, none of the permissable reasons fit. So I sent in a letter. They denied me. I dispatched my barrister and 3 weeks later, I was allowed to cast my absentee ballot!  Voting in a bloody church just seems so very wrong. Cheers, Keith  |
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Nov 07, 2009 8:33 PM GMT
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Nov 07, 2009 8:34 PM GMT
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Nov 07, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
I reguarly attend an Unitarian Universalist church. I would say a little more than half of the people there are atheist/agnostic humamist. The remaining people are some sort of generic "spiritual" theist with a fair number of neo-pagans also mixed in. I enjoy the sense of community, food drives, feeding the homeless, etc, and having discussions with the other people at Church. Some people though wouldn't consider UU as a "Church" because UU dosn't have an offical creed. The thing about UU is there is a bit of difference between individuals and churches - it is unlikely that any two UU individuals/churches will have the same beliefs or focus. Eventhough there is a good deal of humanist influence in the UU church I attend sometimes even the water-down generic theist talk is a bit much for me. I think I would be more confortable/at home in a more total humanist "Church" such as the Ethical Cultrual Society. There isn't, however, a Ethical Cultrual Socity near to where I live.
Even though I consider myself an agnostic (leaning towards atheist) humanist the only churches I really would take issue attending are those teaching/preaching an anti-gay aganda. I have a few gay catholic friends and I've attented Dignity and AGLO (Archdiocesan Gay and Lesiban outreach) with them. I've also attended other churches with family/friends. I would be hard pressed to attend a regular Catholic service though. I will attend any church (even Catholic) though for family/friend's funeral, marriage etc. because my love/support of family and friends is more important to me than where I have to go to honor those close to me.
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Nov 07, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
You go to your mother's service, I don't care if it's had in an Old Navy (EEEEK). You go to your mother's service, shame on you.
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Nov 07, 2009 8:39 PM GMT
because irrational feelings about a building should not be allowed to control your everyday life. That´s superstition: no different from refusing to walk on the cracks in the pavement or walk under a ladder. or do you think that Jesus really does live there  |
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Nov 07, 2009 8:44 PM GMT
GuiltyGear said
You go to your mother's service, I don't care if it's had in an Old Navy (EEEEK). You go to your mother's service, shame on you.
No. It would have been a diservice. (Spelling?) She knew how I felt about it. OF course I went to their burials. (Well placements into the family mausoleum.) -Keith  |
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Nov 07, 2009 8:49 PM GMT
Musclequest saidLostboy saidMusclequest saidWill never step foot in one! Even after my parents and brother passed 10 yrs ago, I would not go to the church services. (They passed within 3 mos of one another so there were 3 separate services.)
The only time I would like to be inside of a church, is if I setting the explosives for a demolition crew.
As a matter of fact, I just won a court case against the local govt here, because I was denied an absentee ballot. They vote in a bloody church! When I filled out the absentee form, none of the permissable reasons fit. So I sent in a letter. They denied me. I dispatched my barrister and 3 weeks later, I was allowed to cast my absentee ballot! Voting in a bloody church just seems so very wrong.
Cheers,
Keith
THere´s atheist and there is unbalanced.
How is that unbalanced? Why should I be forced to be surrounded by that?
-Keith
One shouldn't have to step foot in a church to perform a civic duty. Personally, I think voting should only be held at a library, school, and other gov't building. That being said I love that my voting place is so close (just around the corner) at a Methodist church. I am sure I could request a absentee ballot, but like the feel of casting my vote at an actual polling place - just feels "offical". I also think election day should be a federal holiday, but that is a whole another issue. |
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Nov 07, 2009 8:49 PM GMT
Lostboy saidbecause irrational feelings about a building should not be allowed to control your everyday life. That´s superstition: no different from refusing to walk on the cracks in the pavement or walk under a ladder.
or do you think that Jesus really does live there I totally disagree. It's not superstition. Don't believe in that either. It doesn't control my life. I got my way with the voting. As for the funeral masses....even if they were conducted outdoors I would not have attended the service. And please, ask any of these religious dolts.... to them the church is much more then a building. Would not set foot in such a place where the same religious dolts would just as soon ban Gay people from entering. Would rather see them burn to the ground. Then have to pay taxes on the land!! -Keith |
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Nov 07, 2009 8:53 PM GMT
If something means you can´t vote normally and won´t go to your parents´ funerals, that counts as controlling your life in an unacceptable way.... |
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Nov 07, 2009 8:56 PM GMT
Lostboy saidIf something means you can´t vote normally and won´t go to your parents´ funerals, that counts as controlling your life in an unacceptable way.... It didn't control my life. I controlled the voting. As I said, I didn't go to the ridiculous mass. I did attend the burials. Why should I sit there and listen to that diatribe of religious bullshit? I was stressed out enough. Keith |
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Nov 07, 2009 9:46 PM GMT
i go to church cos i do believe in what i was raised in. instead of accepting that the church does not like "gays", i've done my own research and many many hours of soul searching, i do believe that God is Love, whether the archaeic church accepts me or not. i know that God does.
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Nov 07, 2009 10:04 PM GMT
Of course not. They are not brave enough. They fear they will change sides.
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Nov 07, 2009 10:05 PM GMT
bodyarthero saidi go to church cos i do believe in what i was raised in. instead of accepting that the church does not like "gays", i've done my own research and many many hours of soul searching, i do believe that God is Love, whether the archaeic church accepts me or not. i know that God does.
Keep in mind if you support an anti-gay church some of the funds you donate may be used by church leaders to press an anti-gay aganda (e.g., blocking same-sex marrage etc.). Believing in God does not mean you have to support an instituation (i.e., Church) ran by men working against gay issues/interests. There are several gay affirming Churches, so there is no need to be a Gay Uncle Tom supporting churches teaching/working against gays. |
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Nov 07, 2009 10:13 PM GMT
When I was the Music Director at my Episcopal Church back in Virginia, the baritone soloist was a grad student at a nearby college and was a complete atheist. He sang for me for the money and the beauty of the music...
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Nov 07, 2009 10:17 PM GMT
I haven't step foot in that place in years. Couldn't deal with the mystery and hypocrisy of it all. Family and friends don't understand, they just think I haven't been to a "good church". I'm Atheist, proud and not ashamed. |
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Nov 07, 2009 10:19 PM GMT
Musclequest said
Why should I sit there and listen to that diatribe of religious bullshit?
It can actually be somewhat entertaining, if, as you are listening, you substitute either "Snow White" or "leprechauns" for every time you hear the word 'god.' I don't recommend it at Xtian funerals though. Your giggling could well get out of control. |
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Nov 07, 2009 10:21 PM GMT
I go every once in a while for my family, it makes them happy. It's a United Church whose doors are open to GLBT people. The sermons are pretty good actually, lots of jokes and a pretty good moral at the end. Still, I wouldn't go if my family didn't.
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Nov 07, 2009 10:35 PM GMT
bodyarthero saidi go to church cos i do believe in what i was raised in. instead of accepting that the church does not like "gays", i've done my own research and many many hours of soul searching, i do believe that God is Love, whether the archaeic church accepts me or not. i know that God does.
im sorry but you dont qualify for this thread |
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Nov 07, 2009 10:39 PM GMT
At the moment I am not visiting a church, but I have often visited churches, mosques and temples for extensive periods to coordinate and help with charity and service. I don't believe in god or religion, but I do believe in helping other human beings.
(I also read and keep the bible, quran and the bagvadghita)
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Nov 07, 2009 10:47 PM GMT
theantijock saidMusclequest saidWill never step foot in one! ...The only time I would like to be inside of a church, is if I am setting the explosives for a demolition crew.
Musclequest saidthe artwork...is far more important th(a)n ...lives.
 Touche'  You have me there. My feelings are the same. Even for the churches in England. So maybe not knock them all down. Have them di-sanctified and made into museums. But most churches are not as grand. Would have no problem in seeing most of them destroyed. -Keith |
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Nov 07, 2009 10:49 PM GMT
I would step foot in this church, or would I have to walk up to the drve-thru?  |
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Nov 07, 2009 10:55 PM GMT
phemt saidbodyarthero saidi go to church cos i do believe in what i was raised in. instead of accepting that the church does not like "gays", i've done my own research and many many hours of soul searching, i do believe that God is Love, whether the archaeic church accepts me or not. i know that God does.
Keep in mind if you support an anti-gay church some of the funds you donate may be used by church leaders to press an anti-gay aganda (e.g., blocking same-sex marrage etc.). Believing in God does not mean you have to support an instituation (i.e., Church) ran by men working against gay issues/interests. There are several gay affirming Churches, so there is no need to be a Gay Uncle Tom supporting churches teaching/working against gays. i dont give monetary to support the church. i give money to support people. the money never touches the hand of the priest or their volunteers : ) |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:00 PM GMT
center saidI would step foot in this church, or would I have to walk up to the drve-thru?
NOOOOO they wont let you walk up to the drive through. It is considered a heresy. |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:07 PM GMT
A young boy began to feel agitated as the butler drove to the church on top of the hill. Then the youngster began to cry, then to scream and struggled as he was taken in for baptism. The commotion was so intense, that the clergyman was not able to perform the rite on him.
Then there was a sound of thunder and something like an earthquake shook the building.
Young Damien Thorn was quickly escorted out of the church, still unbaptised, along with his adopted parents. He began to calm down as he was hustled into the car and driven away.
That scene was taken from the 1970s movie "The Omen".
Reading Musclequest's posts on this thread has brought Damien Thorn to the present day.
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Nov 07, 2009 11:18 PM GMT
Practically every sunday and sometimes on a Tuesday for mid week service
but then again i ain't no atheist. Jesus Christ is just too doggone marvellous to be.
atheist?
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Nov 07, 2009 11:20 PM GMT
I'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours.
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Nov 07, 2009 11:23 PM GMT
bodyarthero saidphemt saidbodyarthero saidi go to church cos i do believe in what i was raised in. instead of accepting that the church does not like "gays", i've done my own research and many many hours of soul searching, i do believe that God is Love, whether the archaeic church accepts me or not. i know that God does.
Keep in mind if you support an anti-gay church some of the funds you donate may be used by church leaders to press an anti-gay aganda (e.g., blocking same-sex marrage etc.). Believing in God does not mean you have to support an instituation (i.e., Church) ran by men working against gay issues/interests. There are several gay affirming Churches, so there is no need to be a Gay Uncle Tom supporting churches teaching/working against gays.
i dont give monetary to support the church. i give money to support people. the money never touches the hand of the priest or their volunteers : ) try and pay attention for two seconds... the thread is about atheists who go to church, and since an atheist is somebody who believes deities do not exist and since you replied some babble about 'God loves me blah blah blah'... you therefore neither qualify as an atheist nor for this thread. |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:26 PM GMT
Blackguy4you said Jesus Christ is just too doggone marvellous to be. Many fictional characters are quite enthralling. |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:27 PM GMT
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Nov 07, 2009 11:28 PM GMT
lenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours. you know it's like 40 mins right .....and I usually bring iphone and surf Realjock/Facebook or mentally undress the hot rugby player in the pew behind, it seems like an appropriate form of rebellion |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:28 PM GMT
jprichva saidBlackguy4you said Jesus Christ is just too doggone marvellous to be.
Many fictional characters are quite enthralling. Oh I know- it's getting played now - but I still threaten a spanking  |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:28 PM GMT
lenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours. The average Christian service is about an hour to an hour and a half. You can't sit still for an hour? |
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Nov 07, 2009 11:52 PM GMT
Hunter9 saidya know... just for shits and giggles.
or for some other reason? Actually, I've only been in a church three times since 1974, and only twice since 1983, I'm very proud to say. Most recently, when my mom died, I went to her funeral. Prior to that, we went to laugh at the blatant commercialism of a local church. "On your way out of sanctuary be sure to pickup ..." No matter what the version, I don't understand how folks can be so weak-minded, and illogical thinking. You truly have to be rather messed up to sign up for all the malarkey. |
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Nov 08, 2009 12:02 AM GMT
MsclDrew saidlenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours.
you know it's like 40 mins right .....and I usually bring iphone and surf Realjock/Facebook or mentally undress the hot rugby player in the pew behind, it seems like an appropriate form of rebellion |
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Nov 08, 2009 12:10 AM GMT
styrgan saidlenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours.
The average Christian service is about an hour to an hour and a half.
You can't sit still for an hour?
Not at a black church. It starts at 10:30 and last until close to 1. The sermon is an hour alone. |
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Nov 08, 2009 12:52 AM GMT
No But there is a church in Atlanta mycathredral.org that welcomes gays and athesist. AMAZEING There slogan is "Some people have just enough religon to hate but not enough to love" in the background shows sign GOD HATES FAGS . THEY EVEN HAVE A MARCH IN ATLANTA CARRYING SIGN WELCOMING THE GAY AND ATHEIST
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Nov 08, 2009 1:59 AM GMT
I wonder how many Atheists have been Baptized? My parents never had me Baptized. My mother believes in God (genernal Christian), but never really talked about it tell I told her I didn't believe in God. She attempted to debate me, but backed off quickly. My Dad is agnostic and for most of his adult life rarely went to church. His mother, my grandmother, had a bad experience with a church and vowed to never go again. Basically, she was told she wasn't welcome because she was unable to pay her pledge when she got sick while raising two kids on her own (my grandfather left her). A Christian ex-bf of my was horrifed that I was never baptized. He viewed it on par with child neglect on the part of my parents. Funny thing is he would beg me to just get Baptized (any tradition) because he feared for my "soul". I on the other head took great pride in never been Baptized. I would tell him I am untainted by Baptism and pure and in my unbelief - why would I want to go messing that up  |
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Nov 08, 2009 2:07 AM GMT
I get paid handsomely to sing in churches every Sunday.
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Nov 08, 2009 2:19 AM GMT
Musclequest saidHave them di-sanctified and made into museums. But most churches are not as grand. Would have no problem in seeing most of them destroyed. I think that's twisted. For one, I don't think anyone should actively try to erase history, even if they find it insignificant and secondly, churches are buildings which could be put to fine use if not for religious worship. Think green! I mean, there was the Limelight in NYC. Fine example of a church building repurposed but I don't think the drug den it became was all that good either. |
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Nov 08, 2009 2:21 AM GMT
I'm not an atheist but I went to church all of the time when I was younger (wasn't forced to, either). I found most of the people to be wonderful and friendly and found the viewpoints, whether I agreed or disagreed, to be incredibly enlightening. The people also, I found, weren't really judgmental.
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Nov 08, 2009 2:27 AM GMT
Rawrly saidMusclequest saidHave them di-sanctified and made into museums. But most churches are not as grand. Would have no problem in seeing most of them destroyed.
I think that's twisted. For one, I don't think anyone should actively try to erase history, even if they find it insignificant and secondly, churches are buildings which could be put to fine use if not for religious worship. Think green! I mean, there was the Limelight in NYC. Fine example of a church building repurposed but I don't think the drug den it became was all that good either. Didn't the Soviets turn churches into museums after the Russian Revloution? I am all for freedom of choice with regard to religion. If churches die out it should only be because people stop supporting them. |
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Nov 08, 2009 2:32 AM GMT
phemt saidRawrly saidMusclequest saidHave them di-sanctified and made into museums. But most churches are not as grand. Would have no problem in seeing most of them destroyed.
I think that's twisted. For one, I don't think anyone should actively try to erase history, even if they find it insignificant and secondly, churches are buildings which could be put to fine use if not for religious worship. Think green! I mean, there was the Limelight in NYC. Fine example of a church building repurposed but I don't think the drug den it became was all that good either.
Didn't the Soviets turn churches into museums after the Russian Revloution? I am all for freedom of choice with regard to religion. If churches die out it should only be because people stop supporting them. It's entirely possibly but I am not qualified to answer that question as I am not familiar with it inside and out, however, I do believe that the Russian government at the time did try to suppress the church. Whether they turned houses of worship into museums, I don't know. I'm more into Russian imperial history :-) I do agree with your last statement entirely! |
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Nov 08, 2009 2:51 AM GMT
I’m more agnostic than atheist. My Partner took me to Ernest Angley’s church in Akron, Ohio (http://www.ernestangley.org/index.php). He wanted me to experience something that meant a lot to him when he was growing up. I’m open minded and not judgmental…so I went for the ride. This is an old fashioned televangelist kind of church with the auditorium, TV cameras, choirs, screaming “be HEALED!” , etc. They even have a full on Cafeteria (with some of the best fried chicken I’ve ever had). Folks were raising their hands, speaking in tongues, clapping, crying, dancing in the aisles. I was getting nervous. It was too fucked up for me. Then came the fun part. Earnest called people up to testify and receive the “healing of the Holy Spirit.” MY PARTNER GOT UP TO TESTIFY AND WANTED ME TO GO! AAAAHHH! NO!!! I did NOT go. So a line of people wait on the stage and, one by one, go to Earnest, tell their story, he places his hand on their head and down they go. Some man catches them, and has a prayer cloth placed on their head. I was sweating. This was too freaky.  My partner gets up there and Earnest asked him, “How can the Holy Spirit help you?” My partner said that his mother has a blood disease, and a cyst on her leg that has been growing. Can she be healed? Earnest asked Derek,”has your mother been saved?” I froze and knew what was coming. Derek said, “I don’t know.” Earnest said, “Well, I can’t help her. Are you saved? What can I do for you?” I was so sad and angry for my partner. That bastard turned God’s love away from the man I love! Well, his mom…anyway. Derek continued with, “Err, um...I have a bad back that locks up.” Earnest places his hand on Derek’s head, and down goes Derek. I stayed for the rest of the service, disgusted and saddened. After that, I decided I would never go to another televangelist church. Televangelists make me sick. Bakker, Falwell, Robertson, etc. They will take Derek’s money, but won’t help him when life is tough. Hypocrites! All of em! By the way, Derek’s back still locks up. Thanks, Earnie! |
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Nov 08, 2009 2:55 AM GMT
Rawrly saidphemt saidRawrly saidMusclequest saidHave them di-sanctified and made into museums. But most churches are not as grand. Would have no problem in seeing most of them destroyed.
I think that's twisted. For one, I don't think anyone should actively try to erase history, even if they find it insignificant and secondly, churches are buildings which could be put to fine use if not for religious worship. Think green! I mean, there was the Limelight in NYC. Fine example of a church building repurposed but I don't think the drug den it became was all that good either.
Didn't the Soviets turn churches into museums after the Russian Revloution? I am all for freedom of choice with regard to religion. If churches die out it should only be because people stop supporting them.
It's entirely possibly but I am not qualified to answer that question as I am not familiar with it inside and out, however, I do believe that the Russian government at the time did try to suppress the church. Whether they turned houses of worship into museums, I don't know. I'm more into Russian imperial history :-) I do agree with your last statement entirely! Your right about the Soviets. They did destroy the Church and in such a horrible way, too. They blew up hundreds of churches, many which were centuries old. Priests and monks were killed or worse shipped off to labor camps in Siberia where they died much slower death. Now in Russia, Communism has fallen and the Church has seen a huge revival. That kind of militant atheism failed. And if destroying churches and killing priests means that you have to accomplish this to get atheism to win, then atheism is not appealing at all. It will fail |
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Nov 08, 2009 3:10 AM GMT
Well, all I can say is that the conversion of the Winter Palace into the musee Hermitage is one of the finest examples of buildings turning into other types of buildings.
Designers, carry on...
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Nov 08, 2009 3:28 AM GMT
Ciarsolo7 saidWell, all I can say is that the conversion of the Winter Palace into the musee Hermitage is one of the finest examples of buildings turning into other types of buildings.
Designers, carry on... I'm thinking of attending the Church of the Blessed Ciarsolo. |
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Nov 08, 2009 3:43 AM GMT
Ciarsolo7 saidWell, all I can say is that the conversion of the Winter Palace into the musee Hermitage is one of the finest examples of buildings turning into other types of buildings.
Designers, carry on... It wasn't so much converted as it was first ransacked and then had no imperial family to occupy it |
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Nov 08, 2009 3:58 AM GMT
danisnotstr8 saidI get paid handsomely to sing in churches every Sunday. Good for you! As a musician, you know that some of the most beautiful music ever written is sacred music, whether you believe the words or not... |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:03 AM GMT
jarhead5536 saiddanisnotstr8 saidI get paid handsomely to sing in churches every Sunday.
Good for you! As a musician, you know that some of the most beautiful music ever written is sacred music, whether you believe the words or not... I couldn't agree more. As a singer over about 25 years, I sang more masses, requiems, motets, cantatas and oratorios than you can shake a stick at (whatever that means). Christianity may be an odd sort of belief, but it has inspired glorious music. |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:44 AM GMT
jprichva saidjarhead5536 saiddanisnotstr8 saidI get paid handsomely to sing in churches every Sunday.
Good for you! As a musician, you know that some of the most beautiful music ever written is sacred music, whether you believe the words or not...
I couldn't agree more. As a singer over about 25 years, I sang more masses, requiems, motets, cantatas and oratorios than you can shake a stick at (whatever that means).
Christianity may be an odd sort of belief, but it has inspired glorious music. Wow! you sing?!?!?!? Wow and you do requiems and oratorios .... my my o my... You didn't tell me that... So you are not just a pretty face then, huh? What a man of many talents... a master of bon mots .... and and now a singer... Wow!!!! I wonder what else there is to be discovered... |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:53 AM GMT
Blackguy4you said Wow! you sing?!?!?!? Wow and you do requiems and oratorios .... my my o my...
You didn't tell me that... Actually, it's in my profile. I was a member of the New York Oratorio Society from 1980-1994, where we did three programs each year at Carnegie Hall and usually a summer tour in Europe. Later, in Virginia, I was a member of the Richmond Symphony Chorus, performing several times a year with the symphony orchestra. |
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Nov 08, 2009 5:26 AM GMT
blackguy4you said, "Wow!!!! I wonder what else there is to be discovered..."
lol, we'll spill the beans - he writes, and we're hooked.
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Nov 08, 2009 5:46 AM GMT
Rawrly saidCiarsolo7 saidWell, all I can say is that the conversion of the Winter Palace into the musee Hermitage is one of the finest examples of buildings turning into other types of buildings.
Designers, carry on...
It wasn't so much converted as it was first ransacked and then had no imperial family to occupy it potayto, potahto, it all flows seamlessly in Rusian Ark  It's been too long since I've listened to a good motet. I may need kidnap jprichva and get my musical way. |
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Nov 08, 2009 6:10 AM GMT
It's a fun place to pass wind.
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Nov 08, 2009 6:36 AM GMT
Musclequest saidLostboy saidMusclequest saidWill never step foot in one! Even after my parents and brother passed 10 yrs ago, I would not go to the church services. (They passed within 3 mos of one another so there were 3 separate services.)
The only time I would like to be inside of a church, is if I setting the explosives for a demolition crew.
As a matter of fact, I just won a court case against the local govt here, because I was denied an absentee ballot. They vote in a bloody church! When I filled out the absentee form, none of the permissable reasons fit. So I sent in a letter. They denied me. I dispatched my barrister and 3 weeks later, I was allowed to cast my absentee ballot! Voting in a bloody church just seems so very wrong.
Cheers,
Keith
THere´s atheist and there is unbalanced.
How is that unbalanced? Why should I be forced to be surrounded by that?
-Keith
If we won't to talk unbalanced, we should talk about people who belive in the Garden of Edan, Marry and her beads, and so on. |
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Nov 08, 2009 6:38 AM GMT
There is only one light, one way, the Ori way. Unless you all submite by 2012, it will be the end of you all, the human race will just go poof, and be gone; unless you all accept the Ori......
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Nov 08, 2009 7:01 AM GMT
musclebuilder88 said
Your right about the Soviets. They did destroy the Church and in such a horrible way, too. They blew up hundreds of churches, many which were centuries old. Priests and monks were killed or worse shipped off to labor camps in Siberia where they died much slower death. Now in Russia, Communism has fallen and the Church has seen a huge revival.
That kind of militant atheism failed. That's bullshit. What the Soviets destroyed was not destroyed in the name of atheism, but was destroyed in the name of communism. The Soviets did not go after just the religious or believers, but also "peasants, land owners, workers, ethnic nationalities, factory owners, intellectuals, members of rival communist organizations, and even the regime’s own founders. All were trampled under communism’s march." http://www.makingmyway.org/?p=36Why do you imply the Soviets did what they did in the name of 'militant atheism,' when history proves the Soviets did what they did in the name of communism? Why attempt to smear atheism in this manner? Are you religious? And how could the Soviets have destroyed all these churches in the name of 'militant atheism,' given "communist regimes did target believers for persecution, but its application was not consistent. In the Soviet Union, some churches and faiths were especially brutalized, but others, like Islam, experienced official co-option from agencies such as Spiritual Administration of the Muslims. As the Soviet Union entered the second world war, the Russian Orthodox Church was enlisted to support Stalin’s government in the country’s defense – support which it unreservedly granted by naming Stalin as divinely appointed, just as it had done under the Russian tsars. " (see previous link.) If the Soviets destroyed so many churches in the name of 'militant atheism,' why give the Russian Orthodox Church and Islam a free pass? If these churches were destroyed in the name of atheism, why would the Soviets care whether the Russian Orthodox Church claimed Stalin was divinely appointed or not? Why would the Soviets have a "Spiritual Administration of the Muslims" if what they did was in the name of 'militant atheism?' Or did what the Soviets do have not a damn thing to do with 'militant atheism?' |
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Nov 08, 2009 9:07 AM GMT
Ciarsolo7 saidIt's been too long since I've listened to a good motet. I may need kidnap jprichva and get my musical way. You need to flirt more with me. I can sing motets too. |
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Nov 08, 2009 10:21 AM GMT
Rawrly saidI'm not an atheist but I went to church all of the time when I was younger (wasn't forced to, either). I found most of the people to be wonderful and friendly and found the viewpoints, whether I agreed or disagreed, to be incredibly enlightening. The people also, I found, weren't really judgmental. And these incredibly enlightened and nonjudgmental people....do they know you are Gay? -Keith |
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Nov 08, 2009 10:28 AM GMT
NotThatOld saidA young boy began to feel agitated as the butler drove to the church on top of the hill. Then the youngster began to cry, then to scream and struggled as he was taken in for baptism. The commotion was so intense, that the clergyman was not able to perform the rite on him.
Then there was a sound of thunder and something like an earthquake shook the building.
Young Damien Thorn was quickly escorted out of the church, still unbaptised, along with his adopted parents. He began to calm down as he was hustled into the car and driven away.
That scene was taken from the 1970s movie "The Omen".
Reading Musclequest's posts on this thread has brought Damien Thorn to the present day. Wow, I wish I could take credit in being that little guy! LOL!! But then I would have to believe in that whole devil/angel/god rubbish. Fun fantasy though. Cheers, Keith |
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Nov 08, 2009 11:13 AM GMT
MsclDrew saidlenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours.
you know it's like 40 mins right .....and I usually bring iphone and surf Realjock/Facebook or mentally undress the hot rugby player in the pew behind, it seems like an appropriate form of rebellion Actually the one I got invited to was 3 hours long,because there was other stuff they did after the hour long talking. |
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Nov 08, 2009 12:53 PM GMT
Being an athiest and a huge architecture buff, I'd have to say the only reason to go into a church is to admire the architecture. There is an unbelievably spectacular church about 3 blocks from my house. By no means to I attend regularly, or ever, but the few times I've been in it, I've been blown away by the beauty of the sanctuary. Some of the most beautiful, ornate buildings in the world are churches, which I find quite ironic, but I digress.
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Nov 08, 2009 1:35 PM GMT
Am I the only one to see the hypocrisy in this thread  |
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Nov 08, 2009 1:37 PM GMT
for free cookies?
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Nov 08, 2009 2:01 PM GMT
how did you all come to become Atheists?
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Nov 08, 2009 2:20 PM GMT
Stupid question. I assume you're gay Hunter9.
Do you sleep with women? You know... just for shits and giggles?
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Nov 08, 2009 2:37 PM GMT
jprichva said Christianity may be an odd sort of belief, but it has inspired glorious music. I could very happily spend an hour in a beautiful church hearing a mass set by Mozart or Haydn. At this point my beliefs if any are vague but some of my warmest childhood memories relate to church events like Easter and Christmas midnight mass. At family get-togethers escorting my mother to church is a way of affirming the family bond. And yes they all know I'm gay and no it's never been a problem. |
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Nov 08, 2009 2:42 PM GMT
Here in Dallas (I don't live in Dallas Proper) the Baptists are building a new 138 MILLION dollar church. It was on the front page of The Dallas Morning News. It's a very sad state of affairs that 138 MILLION, yes, that's MILLION, of those tax free church dollars get wasted building a cathedral while Dallas has so many other issues. It speaks to the fucked up priorities of the false belief system crowd.
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Nov 08, 2009 2:42 PM GMT
tereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists? Wrong question. Babies aren't born believing in gods. How did some of you come to buy into the rather odd narrative of invisible friends in the sky? |
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Nov 08, 2009 3:04 PM GMT
tereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists? I have just as much evidence for the existence of a god or gods as I have evidence for the existence of leprechauns, SpongeBob, My Little Pony or Brer Rabbit. If you do not believe leprechauns exist, then you can surely understand why I do not believe any gods exist. However, my mind is open. Convince me. What evidence do you have to demonstrate your deity exists? Why should I believe your deity exists instead of say, Zeus or Isis or the Big Bad Wolf? |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:01 PM GMT
Most of the world is not atheist, whether gay or straight. Atheists are a minority of minorities. Some neuroscientists believe they have isolated some areas of the brain responsible for spiritual experiences and beliefs. I think there are good reasons that people have the propensity to believe in god or gods. Not that any of those reasons are necessarily connected with what is.
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Nov 08, 2009 4:02 PM GMT
jprichva saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
Wrong question. Babies aren't born believing in gods. How did some of you come to buy into the rather odd narrative of invisible friends in the sky? I would disagree with that. |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:19 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidAm I the only one to see the hypocrisy in this thread Nope- you are not the only one |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
meninlove said
blackguy4you said, "Wow!!!! I wonder what else there is to be discovered..."
lol, we'll spill the beans - he writes, and we're hooked. LOL- yeah that we are |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:23 PM GMT
rdberg1957 saidMost of the world is not atheist, whether gay or straight. Atheists are a minority of minorities. Some neuroscientists believe they have isolated some areas of the brain responsible for spiritual experiences and beliefs. I think there are good reasons that people have the propensity to believe in god or gods. Not that any of those reasons are necessarily connected with what is. IIRC- that scientist who came up with that theory was laughed out of town by his fellows |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:44 PM GMT
Ciarsolo7 saidRawrly saidCiarsolo7 saidWell, all I can say is that the conversion of the Winter Palace into the musee Hermitage is one of the finest examples of buildings turning into other types of buildings.
Designers, carry on...
It wasn't so much converted as it was first ransacked and then had no imperial family to occupy it
potayto, potahto, it all flows seamlessly in Rusian Ark
It's been too long since I've listened to a good motet. I may need kidnap jprichva and get my musical way. Russian Ark is actually my all time favourite movie, by the way. |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:45 PM GMT
Musclequest saidRawrly saidI'm not an atheist but I went to church all of the time when I was younger (wasn't forced to, either). I found most of the people to be wonderful and friendly and found the viewpoints, whether I agreed or disagreed, to be incredibly enlightening. The people also, I found, weren't really judgmental.
And these incredibly enlightened and nonjudgmental people....do they know you are Gay?
-Keith
Yes, they do. Case in point, my Christian grandmother, a supporter of gay marriage and gay and trans rights who severely chastised my brother for using the word "faggot". I've never heard a little old lady snap so fast at her grandson before. |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:51 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidAm I the only one to see the hypocrisy in this thread umm, not sure what you're referring to... care to enlighten? |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:53 PM GMT
onstagebuffnaked saidStupid question. I assume you're gay Hunter9.
Do you sleep with women? You know... just for shits and giggles? well, im not quite sure what connection you are trying to make, but yeah, actually once i fucked a prostitute in amsterdam's red light district... so i would actually say that that was shits and giggles. i dont make a habit out of it though. why do you ask? |
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Nov 08, 2009 4:54 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidjprichva saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
Wrong question. Babies aren't born believing in gods. How did some of you come to buy into the rather odd narrative of invisible friends in the sky?
I would disagree with that. based on what? |
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Nov 08, 2009 5:03 PM GMT
No .... I do not go into any churches if I can help it I will go to a wedding or a funeral for a family member or a friend because of THEM not because of any need to appease or please some kahuna in the sky |
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Nov 08, 2009 9:26 PM GMT
GQjock saidNo .... I do not go into any churches if I can help it
I will go to a wedding or a funeral for a family member or a friend
because of THEM not because of any need to appease or please some
kahuna in the sky
Are your family and friends you refer to, crazy, or nut jobs as church goers were referred to on RJ? You know, for believing in some kahuna in the sky. |
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Nov 08, 2009 9:36 PM GMT
Hunter9 saidMikePhilPerez saidAm I the only one to see the hypocrisy in this thread
umm, not sure what you're referring to... care to enlighten? Well, just for example the biggest hypocrite is MsclDrew. I think his posts are self explanatory. He is 22 years old, and claims to go, just for his family sake. Who does he think he is kidding. Any old excuse to look good with the rest of the bullies. If what he says is true (and I doubt it) it is time for him at 22 to grow up. |
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Nov 08, 2009 9:38 PM GMT
Hunter9 saidMikePhilPerez saidjprichva saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
Wrong question. Babies aren't born believing in gods. How did some of you come to buy into the rather odd narrative of invisible friends in the sky?
I would disagree with that.
based on what? Based on my experiences. |
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Nov 08, 2009 9:40 PM GMT
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Nov 08, 2009 10:14 PM GMT
Rawrly said
Yes, they do. Case in point, my Christian grandmother, a supporter of gay marriage and gay and trans rights who severely chastised my brother for using the word "faggot". I've never heard a little old lady snap so fast at her grandson before.
Not all religions are literalist. Many religions are progressive. Yet, no religion has any proof whatsoever to back up the claims they make. |
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Nov 08, 2009 10:36 PM GMT
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Nov 08, 2009 10:43 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidRodmramer said I came from church 2 hrs ago. I love it every damn minute
http://www.fapc.org/
Oh, the Rev Paul Rock is hot. Do you know if he's seeing anyone. If he's not I just may visit your church one Sunday
Would he hear my confession do you think... Go to focus so you can ask him....dammit I did have crush on him. He has wife and kids |
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Nov 08, 2009 10:46 PM GMT
center saidRawrly said
Yes, they do. Case in point, my Christian grandmother, a supporter of gay marriage and gay and trans rights who severely chastised my brother for using the word "faggot". I've never heard a little old lady snap so fast at her grandson before.
Not all religions are literalist. Many religions are progressive. Yet, no religion has any proof whatsoever to back up the claims they make.
Yet nothing I posted about had anything to do with anyone's claims or beliefs. |
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Nov 08, 2009 10:46 PM GMT
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Nov 08, 2009 10:49 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidRodmramer saidBlackguy4you saidRodmramer said I came from church 2 hrs ago. I love it every damn minute
http://www.fapc.org/
Oh, the Rev Paul Rock is hot. Do you know if he's seeing anyone. If he's not I just may visit your church one Sunday
Would he hear my confession do you think...
Go to focus so you can ask him....dammit I did have crush on him. He has wife and kids
Many married men hit on me and I've turned down every single one thus far... hmmm perhaps it is time for a change
So are there any other hot guys in the congregation? yes... Some of them. |
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Nov 08, 2009 10:57 PM GMT
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Nov 08, 2009 10:58 PM GMT
Balljunkie saidstyrgan saidlenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours.
The average Christian service is about an hour to an hour and a half.
You can't sit still for an hour?
Not at a black church. It starts at 10:30 and last until close to 1. The sermon is an hour alone. I'll repeat. The AVERAGE Christian service is an hour to an hour and a half. That means that some are 35 minutes, some are 45, some are an hour, some are an hour and a half, and some are three hours. |
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Nov 08, 2009 11:01 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidRodmramer saidBlackguy4you saidRodmramer saidBlackguy4you saidRodmramer said I came from church 2 hrs ago. I love it every damn minute
http://www.fapc.org/
Oh, the Rev Paul Rock is hot. Do you know if he's seeing anyone. If he's not I just may visit your church one Sunday
Would he hear my confession do you think...
Go to focus so you can ask him....dammit I did have crush on him. He has wife and kids
Many married men hit on me and I've turned down every single one thus far... hmmm perhaps it is time for a change
So are there any other hot guys in the congregation?
yes... Some of them.
OK definitely worth a visit then. And Christmas is coming up...
Eh, which side of the church do the hot men sit? I don't have time to waste... I'm planning this like a military campaign lmao. I don't pay any attention where they sit. |
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Nov 08, 2009 11:07 PM GMT
"The sermon is an hour alone."
Verbal diarrhea.
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Nov 08, 2009 11:30 PM GMT
Is fuckface calling me a hypocrite.
Because I've gone to the mall with friends when I have had no interest in whatever they were shopping for, and no other reason to go to the mall because my friends presence has motivated me significantly enough to go give up an hour of my time that otherwise would have been spent watching a 30 rock rerun and picking my toes
And not believing in any of it, a church is a building, 4 walls and a roof not unlike victoria secret or another a store I dislike where I can easily spend up to 50 mins surfing the internet and texting before irritation sets in. If anyone asks I'm there to support people i care and that's it.
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Nov 08, 2009 11:32 PM GMT
styrgan saidBalljunkie saidstyrgan saidlenoxx saidI'm atheist and I wanted to go to church just to see how it's like(not planning on converting at all!) ,but when I found out how long it is, I said Hell no!. I can't sit still for that many hours.
The average Christian service is about an hour to an hour and a half.
You can't sit still for an hour?
Not at a black church. It starts at 10:30 and last until close to 1. The sermon is an hour alone.
I'll repeat.
The AVERAGE Christian service is an hour to an hour and a half.
That means that some are 35 minutes, some are 45, some are an hour, some are an hour and a half, and some are three hours. It bears repeating Not a black church |
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Nov 08, 2009 11:35 PM GMT
styrgan saidBalljunkie saidstyrgan saidlenoxx said
The average Christian service is about an hour to an hour and a half.
You can't sit still for an hour?
Not at a black church. It starts at 10:30 and last until close to 1. The sermon is an hour alone.
I'll repeat.
The AVERAGE Christian service is an hour to an hour and a half.
That means that some are 35 minutes, some are 45, some are an hour, some are an hour and a half, and some are three hours. That average is based off of white churches. My average is based off of all the black churches I have been, too. |
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Nov 08, 2009 11:38 PM GMT
I live across the street from Catholic church. French/creole speaking mass start 1:30 to 3:30 or so.
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Nov 08, 2009 11:42 PM GMT
If people who withstand church for 1/2 hour to 3 or 4 hours spent just half that time getting on, the world would be better a thousand fold. Logic dictates that if you can tolerate that shit for that long, you should be able to tolerate anything. I guess logic falls by the wayside in this case.
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Nov 08, 2009 11:45 PM GMT
McGay saidIf people who withstand church for 1/2 hour to 3 or 4 hours spent just half that time getting on, the world would be better a thousand fold. Logic dictates that if you can tolerate that shit for that long, you should be able to tolerate anything. I guess logic falls by the wayside in this case. what i find interesting is how you can spend 4 hours in a bar. or 6 hours at a sporting event and think that 2 hours in church is onerous |
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Nov 08, 2009 11:56 PM GMT
35 minutes weekdays
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Nov 09, 2009 12:07 AM GMT
Blackguy4you saidMcGay saidIf people who withstand church for 1/2 hour to 3 or 4 hours spent just half that time getting on, the world would be better a thousand fold. Logic dictates that if you can tolerate that shit for that long, you should be able to tolerate anything. I guess logic falls by the wayside in this case.
what i find interesting is how you can spend 4 hours in a bar. or 6 hours at a sporting event and think that 2 hours in church is onerous They don't serve alcohol in church....... Or at least not in white church (Is that racist, because I assumed they don't serve alcohol in any church...except for this one bar that used to be a church across from where I work, It's actually pretty cool I made out on the alter once ( www.thechurch.ie... but then I also assumed that all church was an hour long if you were black or white) |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:20 AM GMT
MsclDrew saidBlackguy4you saidMcGay saidIf people who withstand church for 1/2 hour to 3 or 4 hours spent just half that time getting on, the world would be better a thousand fold. Logic dictates that if you can tolerate that shit for that long, you should be able to tolerate anything. I guess logic falls by the wayside in this case.
what i find interesting is how you can spend 4 hours in a bar. or 6 hours at a sporting event and think that 2 hours in church is onerous
They don't serve alcohol in church.......
Or at least not in white church (Is that racist, because I assumed they don't serve alcohol in any church...except for this one bar that used to be a church across from where I work, It's actually pretty cool I made out on the alter once (www.thechurch.ie... but then I also assumed that all church was an hour long if you were black or white) LOL - no not racist, but funny |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:44 AM GMT
Blackguy4you said<
what i find interesting is how you can spend 4 hours in a bar. or 6 hours at a sporting event and think that 2 hours in church is onerous In the bar and sporting event, one is watching REAL events happen in REAL time. In a church, one is merely listening to people talk about their invisible friend, which has NO basis in reality whatsoever. It is SCIENTIFIC FACT that one can be led to 'experience god' using the god helmet.( http://health.howstuffworks.com/brain-religion2.htm). Therefore, one need not waste time throwing one's money into a collection plate in a church and hearing people speak about their invisible friend. It's so much more direct to apply electrical pulses to the temporal lobes, so that one can experience 'god' at the mere flip of a switch. Why waste two of three hours for something that could be easily done in a few minutes? |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:04 AM GMT
tereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists? I never recall believing otherwise. Even as a child belief in God seemed like believing in Santa: silly to take to real/seriously. Probably because my parents never really pushed the issue on me. |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:42 AM GMT
center saidBlackguy4you said<
what i find interesting is how you can spend 4 hours in a bar. or 6 hours at a sporting event and think that 2 hours in church is onerous
In the bar and sporting event, one is watching REAL events happen in REAL time. In a church, one is merely listening to people talk about their invisible friend, which has NO basis in reality whatsoever.
It is SCIENTIFIC FACT that one can be led to 'experience god' using the god helmet.(http://health.howstuffworks.com/brain-religion2.htm). Therefore, one need not waste time throwing one's money into a collection plate in a church and hearing people speak about their invisible friend. It's so much more direct to apply electrical pulses to the temporal lobes, so that one can experience 'god' at the mere flip of a switch. Why waste two of three hours for something that could be easily done in a few minutes? A sporting event has no relation to anything meaningful; A sporting event is just a bunch of grown men getting overpaid playing a game. What do people watching sports do? Go to any sporting event and you will see people just getting drunk and trashing the surronding community after the game. I would agree about the silly invisible friend talk at church, but church is often much more than just that. Besides the "invisble friend talk" there is also usually the social aganda and sense of community found within most churches. Most churches are invovled in feeding the hungry and helping those in the community in need. I personally know older people who outside of church have noone to talk with or help them out. When a church member gets sick the members of the church are often there to help out. Speaking for myself, an atheist, if you put aside the "invisible friend" talk (view it as symbolic, or story telling) and instead focus on the underlying values/message being preached about then church can indeed be a meaningful experience. Of course this approach/mindset is more suitable for liberal churches as opposed to fundamentalist or anti-gay churches. |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:53 AM GMT
phemt said
A sporting event has no relation to anything meaningful; For those really into it does. For me personally, I would rather actually play a sport than watch others play it. phemt said
I personally know older people who outside of church have noone to talk with or help them out. That's sad. phemt said
Speaking for myself, an atheist, if you put aside the "invisible friend" talk (view it as symbolic, or story telling) and instead focus on the underlying values/message being preached about then church can indeed be a meaningful experience. Of course this approach/mindset is more suitable for liberal churches as opposed to fundamentalist or anti-gay churches. Well the liberals and progressives aren't really known for stirring up the pot politically. I don't really care what anyone believes, until the point comes where they wish to force those personally CHOSEN beliefs upon the rest of us by means of legislation or government. |
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Nov 09, 2009 2:19 AM GMT
center saidphemt said
A sporting event has no relation to anything meaningful;
For those really into it does. For me personally, I would rather actually play a sport than watch others play it.
phemt said
I personally know older people who outside of church have noone to talk with or help them out.
That's sad.
phemt said
Speaking for myself, an atheist, if you put aside the "invisible friend" talk (view it as symbolic, or story telling) and instead focus on the underlying values/message being preached about then church can indeed be a meaningful experience. Of course this approach/mindset is more suitable for liberal churches as opposed to fundamentalist or anti-gay churches.
Well the liberals and progressives aren't really known for stirring up the pot politically. I don't really care what anyone believes, until the point comes where they wish to force those personally CHOSEN beliefs upon the rest of us by means of legislation or government. The civil rights and anti-war movements (both strongly supported by religious liberals) were not stirring the political pot? I don't have much affection for conservatives - be them political or religious. I have more common values with a liberal christian than I would with a conservative atheist. I care more for a liberal mindset than why someone adopts that mindset - be it secular or religious. |
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Nov 09, 2009 6:10 AM GMT
I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic masses regularly growing up. I can safely say that if you've attended one Catholic mass, you've attended them all. The entire thing (except the homily) is literally scripted. On top of that, the other kids that attended my church were always mean to me and not very "Christ-like" as we were taught to be in our Catechism classes.
Besides funerals and weddings, I haven't attended a church service voluntarily since the mid 90s. I certainly don't believe in God, so attending for spiritual reasons is pointless. I have many friends and volunteer at a local AIDS clinic, so attending for the sake of community service and friendship is pointless as well.
Though I don't regret having sat through so many Catholic masses. Listening to an old guy in a dress drone on and on for an hour or so conditioned me well for countless college lectures that also amounted to an old guy droning on and on. The only difference is that what the college professor talked about made sense and was much more useful (intellectually and emotionally) to me than anything I'd ever heard from a church service.
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Nov 09, 2009 6:47 AM GMT
McGay said"The sermon is an hour alone."
Verbal diarrhea. Too funny!!! ROFL |
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Nov 09, 2009 7:07 AM GMT
phemt said
A sporting event has no relation to anything meaningful; A sporting event is just a bunch of grown men getting overpaid playing a game. What do people watching sports do? Go to any sporting event and you will see people just getting drunk and trashing the surronding community after the game. Wow man, sounds like you went to like one Raiders game when you were a kid and had some sort of horribly traumatic experience. I'm sorry that you will never be able to enjoy the passion and excitement of sports... and college sports, which is often the most exciting, has athletes that are neither paid, nor grown men, Anyway, I'm totally detracting from the topic of my own thread, but I felt like that had to be responded to. |
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Nov 09, 2009 10:20 AM GMT
MsclDrew saidIs fuckface calling me a hypocrite.
Because I've gone to the mall with friends when I have had no interest in whatever they were shopping for, and no other reason to go to the mall because my friends presence has motivated me significantly enough to go give up an hour of my time that otherwise would have been spent watching a 30 rock rerun and picking my toes
And not believing in any of it, a church is a building, 4 walls and a roof not unlike victoria secret or another a store I dislike where I can easily spend up to 50 mins surfing the internet and texting before irritation sets in. If anyone asks I'm there to support people i care and that's it.
I thought you had "fuckface" on ignore Well yes, fuckface is calling you a hypocrite. And, can I ask you the same question that I asked someone else on here, and they have so far refused to answer, are your family and friends, that go to Church, idiots, stupid, crazy, you know, all the things you, and a few others on here call those of us who believe in God and go to Church |
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Nov 09, 2009 10:28 AM GMT
MsclDrew saidBlackguy4you saidMcGay saidIf people who withstand church for 1/2 hour to 3 or 4 hours spent just half that time getting on, the world would be better a thousand fold. Logic dictates that if you can tolerate that shit for that long, you should be able to tolerate anything. I guess logic falls by the wayside in this case.
what i find interesting is how you can spend 4 hours in a bar. or 6 hours at a sporting event and think that 2 hours in church is onerous
They don't serve alcohol in church.......
Or at least not in white church (Is that racist, because I assumed they don't serve alcohol in any church...except for this one bar that used to be a church across from where I work, It's actually pretty cool I made out on the alter once (www.thechurch.ie... but then I also assumed that all church was an hour long if you were black or white) Try and get informed MD. Because, yes they do serve alcohol is some Churches |
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Nov 09, 2009 10:39 AM GMT
phemt saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
I never recall believing otherwise. Even as a child belief in God seemed like believing in Santa: silly to take to real/seriously. Probably because my parents never really pushed the issue on me. same here, I wasn't christened as a small child. my parents wanted us kids to decide for our selves when we were older. so when my classmates in 7th grade all went to confirmation in church (most of them just to get their party and a lot of presents afterwards) I didn't want to participate in something I didn't believe in. So I stood up to my grand parents who were quite religious, even with the promise of money and presents. In Denmark I'm positive most kids still go through with it because it's a tradition and they get lots of presents, cos most of them don't ever go to church on a regular basis. I only go if good friends or family get married et.c. and I mostly hate it, but if it makes my family/friends happy I can stand one hour of church. |
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Nov 09, 2009 11:18 AM GMT
MikePhil - true believers know that's not alcohol, it's blood.
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Nov 09, 2009 11:26 AM GMT
McGay saidMikePhil - true believers know that's not alcohol, it's blood. Good point, but MD is a nonbeliever so I'm still technically right |
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Nov 09, 2009 11:29 AM GMT
judoguy saidphemt saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
I never recall believing otherwise. Even as a child belief in God seemed like believing in Santa: silly to take to real/seriously. Probably because my parents never really pushed the issue on me.
same here, I wasn't christened as a small child. my parents wanted us kids to decide for our selves when we were older.
so when my classmates in 7th grade all went to confirmation in church (most of them just to get their party and a lot of presents afterwards) I didn't want to participate in something I didn't believe in. So I stood up to my grand parents who were quite religious, even with the promise of money and presents.
In Denmark I'm positive most kids still go through with it because it's a tradition and they get lots of presents, cos most of them don't ever go to church on a regular basis.
I only go if good friends or family get married et.c. and I mostly hate it, but if it makes my family/friends happy I can stand one hour of church. You do not have to attend Church if you believe in God. Do you celebrate Christmas? What is your view on your family and friends that believe in god and attend Church? |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:22 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidMsclDrew saidIs fuckface calling me a hypocrite.
Because I've gone to the mall with friends when I have had no interest in whatever they were shopping for, and no other reason to go to the mall because my friends presence has motivated me significantly enough to go give up an hour of my time that otherwise would have been spent watching a 30 rock rerun and picking my toes
And not believing in any of it, a church is a building, 4 walls and a roof not unlike victoria secret or another a store I dislike where I can easily spend up to 50 mins surfing the internet and texting before irritation sets in. If anyone asks I'm there to support people i care and that's it.
I thought you had "fuckface" on ignore
Well yes, fuckface is calling you a hypocrite. And, can I ask you the same question that I asked someone else on here, and they have so far refused to answer, are your family and friends, that go to Church, idiots, stupid, crazy, you know, all the things you, and a few others on here call those of us who believe in God and go to Church Well someone messaged me so we could have a mutual laugh at fuckface's inane ramblings and I thought since he addressed me by name it was only polite to respond. (by the way that's sarcastic irony not hypocrisy) And yes, yes I do. I am not bound by a set of rules to honor my parents inspire of their issues and am free to evaluate them on their character and choices They are not fundies, They have some fundie friends including one that is all about happy clappy christian and satan be gone, Pokemon cards are EVIL Harry Potter books are the devil and I have made it clear to them that I think she is completely insane My stepmother is a pretty rational thinker, she believes in god, but has never drank the cool aid and is highly critical and evaluates what she is told by the church. My farther is a lost cause, irrational about everthing and yes in several cases stupid. But I don't really blame him for it. His father was a minister and he was pretty much indoctrinated since birth in Ireland during the 60's. Some of the smartest people are indoctrinated into cults at vunerable stages during their lives and the like so I don't believe that's necessarily an indication of intelligence. Plus there's a heavy dose of denial, theirs no way he's going to admit any doubt in the church and basically admit that his farther devoted his life and his own childhood to something that is total crap. My brother, a well educated professor and atheist like me My two younger sister's have been indoctrinated too but they are only comeing to the stages in their lives where they can think critically. The older one seems have picked up some religious tendencies including a gays are disgusting and wrong but she has daddy issues, and is fat. What is it with fat girls and jesus, I think it's someone will always love me thing. So I'm hoping puberty will take care of both of those issues. If not I'll take her to the gym and start grounding phentemine into her breakfast cereal |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:30 PM GMT
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Nov 09, 2009 12:39 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said Because, yes they do serve alcohol is some Churches Altar wine. |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:41 PM GMT
My best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
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Nov 09, 2009 12:45 PM GMT
MsclDrew saidMikePhilPerez saidMsclDrew saidIs fuckface calling me a hypocrite.
Because I've gone to the mall with friends when I have had no interest in whatever they were shopping for, and no other reason to go to the mall because my friends presence has motivated me significantly enough to go give up an hour of my time that otherwise would have been spent watching a 30 rock rerun and picking my toes
And not believing in any of it, a church is a building, 4 walls and a roof not unlike victoria secret or another a store I dislike where I can easily spend up to 50 mins surfing the internet and texting before irritation sets in. If anyone asks I'm there to support people i care and that's it.
I thought you had "fuckface" on ignore
Well yes, fuckface is calling you a hypocrite. And, can I ask you the same question that I asked someone else on here, and they have so far refused to answer, are your family and friends, that go to Church, idiots, stupid, crazy, you know, all the things you, and a few others on here call those of us who believe in God and go to Church
Well someone messaged me so we could have a mutual laugh at fuckface's inane ramblings and I thought since he addressed me by name it was only polite to respond. (by the way that's sarcastic irony not hypocrisy)
And yes, yes I do. I am not bound by a set of rules to honor my parents inspire of their issues and am free to evaluate them on their character and choices
They are not fundies, They have some fundie friends including one that is all about happy clappy christian and satan be gone, Pokemon cards are EVIL Harry Potter books are the devil and I have made it clear to them that I think she is completely insane
My stepmother is a pretty rational thinker, she believes in god, but has never drank the cool aid and is highly critical and evaluates what she is told by the church.
My farther is a lost cause, irrational about everthing and yes in several cases stupid. But I don't really blame him for it. His father was a minister and he was pretty much indoctrinated since birth in Ireland during the 60's. Some of the smartest people are indoctrinated into cults at vunerable stages during their lives and the like so I don't believe that's necessarily an indication of intelligence. Plus there's a heavy dose of denial, theirs no way he's going to admit any doubt in the church and basically admit that his farther devoted his life and his own childhood to something that is total crap.
My brother, a well educated professor and atheist like me
My two younger sister's have been indoctrinated too but they are only comeing to the stages in their lives where they can think critically. The older one seems have picked up some religious tendencies including a gays are disgusting and wrong but she has daddy issues, and is fat. What is it with fat girls and jesus, I think it's someone will always love me thing. So I'm hoping puberty will take care of both of those issues. If not I'll take her to the gym and start grounding phentemine into her breakfast cereal So explain to me how you just quoted me? Can you quote someone you have on ignore? Puberty didn't take care of your issues, so I don't see why you are hoping it will take care of your sisters. Oh, and not to be smart or anything, you should check your spelling. |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:49 PM GMT
cthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions. About what? What is he active about? What are the magazines about? Sounds very cult like. |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:50 PM GMT
cthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions. If you feel you're breaking free from a coercive power structure why fasten on the new shackles of another one? |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:58 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidcthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
About what?
What is he active about?
What are the magazines about?
Sounds very cult like. To be honest I dont know. I noticed the magazine on his shelf when we were leaving. I saw it through the entrance to his room. I didnt actually go in his room and read it. I asked my friend what that meant. He told me that his room mate was a very strong beliefed Atheist. I was interested so I asked him what he meant. He went on to tell me that he goes to group meetings and conventions just like a Christian, catholic or whatever would have service or conventions. |
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Nov 09, 2009 12:59 PM GMT
TexDef07 saidcthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
If you feel you're breaking free from a coercive power structure why fasten on the new shackles of another one? Have no idea what you are talking about. Was this a response to the actual topic or my response? |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:09 PM GMT
cthedj saidMikePhilPerez saidcthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
About what?
What is he active about?
What are the magazines about?
Sounds very cult like. To be honest I dont know. I noticed the magazine on his shelf when we were leaving. I saw it through the entrance to his room. I didnt actually go in his room and read it.
I asked my friend what that meant. He told me that his room mate was a very strong beliefed Atheist. I was interested so I asked him what he meant. He went on to tell me that he goes to group meetings and conventions just like a Christian, catholic or whatever would have service or conventions. I googled, and found a website where it talks about conventions, and they are looking for donations to build a place (Church maybe) for Atheists. I guess their not all that different after all. |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:19 PM GMT
cthedj saidTexDef07 saidcthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
If you feel you're breaking free from a coercive power structure why fasten on the new shackles of another one? Was this a response to the actual topic or my response? A response to the concept of this atheist group which sounds like a substitute church. Meetings, magazines, conventions -- they probably have dogmas too and in due course an atheist Pope to anathematize those who disagree!  It seems odd. |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:21 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
You do not have to attend Church if you believe in God.
Do you celebrate Christmas?
What is your view on your family and friends that believe in god and attend Church? I know you don't have to attend church even f you're a believer, but since attending church is the topic at hand, that's what I'm adressing. My family celebrates christmas, though not the birth of christ as such (maybe my brother... he's the only one I suspect believes in something). Before christianity came to Denmark the danes/scandinavians celebrated the "yuletide" which was solstice, and the coming of longer and brighter days. This is actually why we celebrate christmas in late december, not because it's jesus' birthday, but because christianity went down easier with the heathens in the north, by assimilating to already existing traditions. I don't have much family or friends who really believes in god or attend church regularly (if not atheists, perhaps agnostics). I think my brother believes in something but he's not a regular church goer either. I find religion is basically superstition (like believing in santa), which is not very contemporary IMO. but people are free to have their superstitions when they keep it to themselves. the moment they start preaching or use religion as an argument in politics or other secular matters they should be ready to face ("the fire") criticism, opposition and even ridicule, cos sometimes they're just too far out. |
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Nov 09, 2009 1:38 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidcthedj saidMikePhilPerez saidcthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
About what?
What is he active about?
What are the magazines about?
Sounds very cult like. To be honest I dont know. I noticed the magazine on his shelf when we were leaving. I saw it through the entrance to his room. I didnt actually go in his room and read it.
I asked my friend what that meant. He told me that his room mate was a very strong beliefed Atheist. I was interested so I asked him what he meant. He went on to tell me that he goes to group meetings and conventions just like a Christian, catholic or whatever would have service or conventions.
I googled, and found a website where it talks about conventions, and they are looking for donations to build a place (Church maybe) for Atheists.
I guess their not all that different after all. I think your perspective is totally messed up, in the sense that you can't understand that some people just don't believe in anything supernatural. so there's an atheist organization, and in your optic you compare that to a religious organization/ church structure which is a wrong approach imo. I can only speak of what I know, and it is that in Denmark, we didn't have atheist organizations until recently. to me Atheism means you don't believe in supernatural diviine beings and an organization is basically unnecessary. BUT, these organizations have developed as a reaction to how religious views and arguments butt into politics/education where they have no business. so I think these organizations are working to keep a segregation of state and church so things don't get muddy, unobjective and unfactual. |
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Nov 09, 2009 2:00 PM GMT
judoguy saidMikePhilPerez saidcthedj saidMikePhilPerez saidcthedj saidMy best friends room mate is an active atheist. He gets magazines...yes magazines...I think it was called atheist weekly. There are group meetings and conventions.
About what?
What is he active about?
What are the magazines about?
Sounds very cult like. To be honest I dont know. I noticed the magazine on his shelf when we were leaving. I saw it through the entrance to his room. I didnt actually go in his room and read it.
I asked my friend what that meant. He told me that his room mate was a very strong beliefed Atheist. I was interested so I asked him what he meant. He went on to tell me that he goes to group meetings and conventions just like a Christian, catholic or whatever would have service or conventions.
I googled, and found a website where it talks about conventions, and they are looking for donations to build a place (Church maybe) for Atheists.
I guess their not all that different after all.
I think your perspective is totally messed up, in the sense that you can't understand that some people just don't believe in anything supernatural. so there's an atheist organization, and in your optic you compare that to a religious organization/ church structure which is a wrong approach imo.
I can only speak of what I know, and it is that in Denmark, we didn't have atheist organizations until recently. to me Atheism means you don't believe in supernatural diviine beings and an organization is basically unnecessary. BUT, these organizations have developed as a reaction to how religious views and arguments butt into politics/education where they have no business. so I think these organizations are working to keep a segregation of state and church so things don't get muddy, unobjective and unfactual. I never knew there was any Atheists organisations until today, when I googled it. I just read some stuff on one site, and the tone I get from it is, avoid anyone that believes in God. And I get the tone that they are above anyone that believes in God. I do not think my perspective is messed up at all. If you want to talk about messed up then explain the Atheist that celebrates Christmas (and some actually do). It is like the vegetarian that eats turkey a Christmas, or the vegetarian that eats fish. I heard a vegetarian on a radio chat show, telling us that she became a vegetarian because of the killing of an innocent animal, but when asked if she eats turkey at Christmas, she admitted that she did. That is what I call messed up. |
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Nov 09, 2009 2:25 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidI guess their not all that different after all. Their == belongs to them They're == they are there == over there Repeat x100. |
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Nov 09, 2009 2:48 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidMcGay saidMikePhil - true believers know that's not alcohol, it's blood.
Good point, but MD is a nonbeliever so I'm still technically right You don't believe it's real blood?  |
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Nov 09, 2009 2:49 PM GMT
McGay saidMikePhilPerez saidMcGay saidMikePhil - true believers know that's not alcohol, it's blood.
Good point, but MD is a nonbeliever so I'm still technically right
You don't believe it's real blood?
Hey this Jesus is too white. So it propbably wasn't real blood |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:00 PM GMT
"Hey this Jesus is too white. So it propbably wasn't real blood" Because your faith is much smaller in reality than in your mind, Jesus cursed you with poor spelling. |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:07 PM GMT
McGay said"Hey this Jesus is too white. So it propbably wasn't real blood"
Because your faith is much smaller in reality than in your mind, Jesus cursed you with poor spelling. Nah- He told me not to pay too much attentiont to such small matters. My fingsers are to just fly across the key board. and that's that |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:08 PM GMT
A laying on of hands will not work. I am your father, Blackguy4you. Now, go, and spell no more. |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:25 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Uh, whether or not somewhat celebrates Xmas has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they be religious or not. Xmas was never originally about Jesus. Xmas was about the winter solstice (which the pagans call Yule), which began on 12/22 and ends on 12/25. Just because the Christians co-opted a holiday which was originally a solstice celebration, does not make Christmas a religious holiday. |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:27 PM GMT
McGay saidA laying on of hands will not work. I am your father, Blackguy4you. Now, go, and spell no more. LOL |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
TigerTim saidMikePhilPerez saidI guess their not all that different after all.
Their == belongs to them
They're == they are
there == over there
Repeat x100. Chucky does the same thing when he is stuck for words  |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:30 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
I just read some stuff on one site, and the tone I get from it is, avoid anyone that believes in God.
Given that atheists are such a small percentage of the population, if we did as you describe above, we wouldn't have many people to socialize with, don't you think?
MikePhilPerez said
And I get the tone that they are above anyone that believes in God. I do not think my perspective is messed up at all.
If anything you've got it backwards. It's the believers who think themselves better than the nonbelievers.
MikePhilPerez said
If you want to talk about messed up then explain the Atheist that celebrates Christmas (and some actually do)..
You explain why Xtians celebrate the rising of the sun on 12/25. That sounds very pagan, and certainly not Xtian to me. |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:46 PM GMT
center saidMikePhilPerez said
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Uh, whether or not somewhat celebrates Xmas has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they be religious or not. Xmas was never originally about Jesus. Xmas was about the winter solstice (which the pagans call Yule), which began on 12/22 and ends on 12/25. Just because the Christians co-opted a holiday which was originally a solstice celebration, does not make Christmas a religious holiday. I'm talking about Christmas. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. I never mentioned Yule. Christmas is a 12 day celebration and it starts on the 25 of December. So I have no idea what you are talking about. |
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Nov 09, 2009 3:56 PM GMT
center saidMikePhilPerez said
I just read some stuff on one site, and the tone I get from it is, avoid anyone that believes in God.
Given that atheists are such a small percentage of the population, if we did as you describe above, we wouldn't have many people to socialize with, don't you think? Are you trying to say the site does not exist?
MikePhilPerez said
And I get the tone that they are above anyone that believes in God. I do not think my perspective is messed up at all.
If anything you've got it backwards. It's the believers who think themselves better than the nonbelievers. I would agree that some think they are, but I don't and never have. BTW I always spell Atheist with a capital A. I have no disrespect for Atheists. They are welcome in my home as friends or family. They are no better or no worse than me.
MikePhilPerez said
If you want to talk about messed up then explain the Atheist that celebrates Christmas (and some actually do)..
You explain why Xtians celebrate the rising of the sun on 12/25. That sounds very pagan, and certainly not Xtian to me. But as I explained, we don't. You should get yourself informed. And your use of hate language says a lot about you. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:03 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
I'm talking about Christmas. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. I never mentioned Yule.
It's the same holiday. It never was about Jesus originally. It was only later when the Xtians co-opted the winter solstice that the pretense it had anyting at all to do with Jesus was solidifed. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:11 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
Are you trying to say the site does not exist? Are you implying you believe everything you read on the internet? MikePhilPerez said
And I get the tone that they are above anyone that believes in God.
Do you believe in Santa or leprechauns? If not, what would you think of those who do?
MikePhilPerez said
BTW I always spell Atheist with a capital A. I have no disrespect for Atheists.
That's entirely unnecessary and grammatically incorrect, I am sure. The word 'atheist' is not an official title, but mere a word which describes a lack of belief in any deities.
MikePhilPerez said
They are welcome in my home as friends or family. They are no better or no worse than me.
And believers, of ALL stripes, are welcome in my home, provided they do not wish to proselytize me. (Although it they do, they won't have that desire for too long, I assure you.) On the other hand, those in my home quickly learn it is also pointless to discuss national sports with me, due to lack of interest in the topic. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:12 PM GMT
center saidMikePhilPerez said
I'm talking about Christmas. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. I never mentioned Yule.
It's the same holiday. It never was about Jesus originally. It was only later when the Xtians co-opted the winter solstice that the pretense it had anyting at all to do with Jesus was solidifed. I'm sorry, you are wrong. Our dates don't match |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:14 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
I'm sorry, you are wrong. Our dates don't match
Your ignorance of history of the holiday does not constitute a mistake on my part: "The birth is observed on December 25, which was the Roman winter solstice upon establishment of the Julian Calendar. [12] Christian churches recognized folk elements of the festival in various cultures within the past several hundred years, allowing much of the folklore and traditions of local pagan festivals to be appropriated. So today, the old festivals such as Jul, Коледа and Karácsony, are still celebrated in many parts of Europe, but the Christian Nativity is now often representational as the meaning behind the holiday. This is why Yule and Christmas are considered interchangeable in Anglo–Christendom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solsticeWhy do the Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to celebrate Xmas? Oh, that's right, because it's actually a PAGAN holiday and has been so since neolithic times, long before Xtianity showed up. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:20 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidcenter saidMikePhilPerez said
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Uh, whether or not somewhat celebrates Xmas has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they be religious or not. Xmas was never originally about Jesus. Xmas was about the winter solstice (which the pagans call Yule), which began on 12/22 and ends on 12/25. Just because the Christians co-opted a holiday which was originally a solstice celebration, does not make Christmas a religious holiday.
I'm talking about Christmas. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. I never mentioned Yule. Christmas is a 12 day celebration and it starts on the 25 of December. So I have no idea what you are talking about. Still today In nordic countries/language the word for "christmas" is JUL (what you anglos spell YULE) so no difference over here. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:30 PM GMT
judoguy saidMikePhilPerez saidcenter saidMikePhilPerez said
Do you celebrate Christmas?
Uh, whether or not somewhat celebrates Xmas has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they be religious or not. Xmas was never originally about Jesus. Xmas was about the winter solstice (which the pagans call Yule), which began on 12/22 and ends on 12/25. Just because the Christians co-opted a holiday which was originally a solstice celebration, does not make Christmas a religious holiday.
I'm talking about Christmas. Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. I never mentioned Yule. Christmas is a 12 day celebration and it starts on the 25 of December. So I have no idea what you are talking about.
Still today In nordic countries/language the word for "christmas" is JUL (what you anglos spell YULE) so no difference over here. I have never used the word YULE in my life. Today is my very first time using it. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:33 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez said
I have never used the word YULE in my life. Today is my very first time using it.
Yule is the EXACT SAME HOLIDAY as Xmas. It marks the EXACT SAME EVENT - the rising of the sun northward on the ascent to the summer solstice. It was referred to as Yule long before the Xtians showed up and co-opted the holiday for their own purposes. Is a dog any less of a dog, if you choose to call it 'man's best friend?' Neither is Yule, no matter what name you call it. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:40 PM GMT
center saidMikePhilPerez said
Are you trying to say the site does not exist?
Are you implying you believe everything you read on the internet? So you are saying this group does not exist?
MikePhilPerez said
And I get the tone that they are above anyone that believes in God.
Do you believe in Santa or leprechauns? If not, what would you think of those who do? No I don't. If there are people that do, then why would, or should it bother me? I certainly would not feel the need to use hate language toward them.
MikePhilPerez said
BTW I always spell Atheist with a capital A. I have no disrespect for Atheists.
That's entirely unnecessary and grammatically incorrect, I am sure. The word 'atheist' is not an official title, but mere a word which describes a lack of belief in any deities. I think you maybe wrong there, but you are the Atheist, not me.
MikePhilPerez said
They are welcome in my home as friends or family. They are no better or no worse than me.
And believers, of ALL stripes, are welcome in my home, provided they do not wish to proselytize me. (Although it they do, they won't have that desire for too long, I assure you.) On the other hand, those in my home quickly learn it is also pointless to discuss national sports with me, due to lack of interest in the topic. But you still felt the need to use threatening language. Why? |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:45 PM GMT
I do.....To play organ music.
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Nov 09, 2009 4:50 PM GMT
center saidMikePhilPerez said
I have never used the word YULE in my life. Today is my very first time using it.
Yule is the EXACT SAME HOLIDAY as Xmas. It marks the EXACT SAME EVENT - the rising of the sun northward on the ascent to the summer solstice. It was referred to as Yule long before the Xtians showed up and co-opted the holiday for their own purposes.
Is a dog any less of a dog, if you choose to call it 'man's best friend?'
Neither is Yule, no matter what name you call it. Once again. The dates don't match. It is Christmas not Xmas or Yule. I asked if you celebrate Christmas not Yule. You told me the dates you celebrate Yule. This apart for one day is different and there are 12 days in Christmas. Got it yet? |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:51 PM GMT
[quote][cite]MikePhilPerez said[/cite] So you are saying this group does not exist? Are you implying that group speaks for every atheist on the planet? MikePhilPerez said
No I don't. If there are people that do, then why would, or should it bother me?
Yet you would understand those who did believe in Santa or leprechauns, without any REASON at all to believe in such, were being irrational and not honest about facts.
MikePhilPerez said
I think you maybe wrong there, but you are the Atheist, not me.
You will have to take that one up with the dictionary, not me.
MikePhilPerez said
But you still felt the need to use threatening language. Why?
If you are threatened by the FACT that I have just as much reason to believe in the existence of Peter Cottontail as I have reason to believe in your diety, that's on you, not me. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:51 PM GMT
Pianist saidI do.....To play organ music. Good for you. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:52 PM GMT
[quote][cite]MikePhilPerez said[/cite]
Once again. The dates don't match.
If you can read the bible, then surely you can read my posts: "The birth is observed on December 25, which was the Roman winter solstice upon establishment of the Julian Calendar. [12] Christian churches recognized folk elements of the festival in various cultures within the past several hundred years, allowing much of the folklore and traditions of local pagan festivals to be appropriated. So today, the old festivals such as Jul, Коледа and Karácsony, are still celebrated in many parts of Europe, but the Christian Nativity is now often representational as the meaning behind the holiday. --->This is why Yule and Christmas are considered interchangeable in Anglo–Christendom.<--- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_solsticeWhy do the Jehovah's Witnesses refuse to celebrate Xmas? Oh, that's right, because it's actually a PAGAN holiday and has been so since neolithic times, long before Xtianity showed up. Isn't it funny when Xtians claim they are discriminated against, when, in reality, they are shunned simply because they prefer to deny all reality that does not jibe with their superstitions. |
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Nov 09, 2009 4:56 PM GMT
When you say church, I take it to mean a building or a place used for religious worship.
The architecture of houses of worship, a christian church, a mosque or a temple are built to inspire and create a sense of spirituality. Even though I don't believe in a specific god, I occasionaly go to a house of worship to sit and contemplate. Its peaceful and quiet.
I could get the same benefit from the beach or another place, but at least in a church the candles smell nice and the stained glass windows are pretty and the benches are comfortable and the air is cool. Plus, every so often there's a cute altar boy to look at.
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Nov 09, 2009 5:10 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidjudoguy saidphemt saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
I never recall believing otherwise. Even as a child belief in God seemed like believing in Santa: silly to take to real/seriously. Probably because my parents never really pushed the issue on me.
same here, I wasn't christened as a small child. my parents wanted us kids to decide for our selves when we were older.
so when my classmates in 7th grade all went to confirmation in church (most of them just to get their party and a lot of presents afterwards) I didn't want to participate in something I didn't believe in. So I stood up to my grand parents who were quite religious, even with the promise of money and presents.
In Denmark I'm positive most kids still go through with it because it's a tradition and they get lots of presents, cos most of them don't ever go to church on a regular basis.
I only go if good friends or family get married et.c. and I mostly hate it, but if it makes my family/friends happy I can stand one hour of church.
You do not have to attend Church if you believe in God.
Do you celebrate Christmas?
What is your view on your family and friends that believe in god and attend Church? Eventhough your questions were not directed towards me I figured I would take a shot at answering them anyways. Attending church and believing in God (though often related) are not the same thing - you can do one without the other. I celebrate Christmas as much as I do any other holiday part of the culture. I also "celebrate" the winter solstice and I don't consider myself pagan. You know winter solstice the pagan celebration Christians modified for themselves, renamed Christmas, and took as their own holiday. Almost all, if not all, religions are really just modifications of earlier traditions. I view family and friends that believe in God as having a misguided view of reality. My views of the church they attend depends on the type church they attend. I not as concerned what their Church teaches about God, but what social aganda and political movements their church takes part of. Note: I answered those questions, before reading the rest of the forum posts. Glad to see people rightly pointed out the "winter solstice" issue |
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Nov 09, 2009 5:12 PM GMT
Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate no birthdays at all because they say birthday celebrations for anyone are pagan.
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Nov 09, 2009 5:16 PM GMT
I dont like the description of an atheist. I believe there is something, but I wouldnt dare to say that I know what or who it is. In the end every religuos Person is playing russian roulette with their afterlife. In the end only one can be right all the others go to hell or what so ever.
For me, I celebrate Christmas and everything like any other Person too, you dont need to believe in good or the bible in order to share a special day with Family and friends.
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Nov 09, 2009 5:43 PM GMT
MikePhilPerez saidcenter saidMikePhilPerez said
I have never used the word YULE in my life. Today is my very first time using it.
Yule is the EXACT SAME HOLIDAY as Xmas. It marks the EXACT SAME EVENT - the rising of the sun northward on the ascent to the summer solstice. It was referred to as Yule long before the Xtians showed up and co-opted the holiday for their own purposes.
Is a dog any less of a dog, if you choose to call it 'man's best friend?'
Neither is Yule, no matter what name you call it.
Once again. The dates don't match. It is Christmas not Xmas or Yule. I asked if you celebrate Christmas not Yule. You told me the dates you celebrate Yule. This apart for one day is different and there are 12 days in Christmas. Got it yet? in the danish language there's only one word for it, JUL, so this arguing about words makes no sense. in my language this discussion couldn't take place. your statement makes as little sense as if you said " I don't have any dogs, but I have a bull terrier" because bull terrier isn't spelled d-o-g |
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Nov 09, 2009 5:44 PM GMT
maximumrisk saidI dont like the description of an atheist. I believe there is something, but I wouldnt dare to say that I know what or who it is. In the end every religuos Person is playing russian roulette with their afterlife. In the end only one can be right all the others go to hell or what so ever.
For me, I celebrate Christmas and everything like any other Person too, you dont need to believe in good or the bible in order to share a special day with Family and friends. I prefer the term "Humanist" because it tells what I do believe: http://www.ihumanism.org/intro/10points.htmlFirst, Humanism believes in a naturalistic metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that considers all forms of the supernatural as myth; and that regards Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly changing system of matter and energy which exists independently of any mind or consciousness.
Second, Humanism, drawing especially upon the laws and facts of science, believes that we human beings are an evolutionary product of the Nature of which we are a part; that the mind is indivisibly conjoined with the functioning of the brain; and that as an inseparable unity of body and personality we can have no conscious survival after death.
Third, Humanism, having its ultimate faith in humankind, believes that human beings possess the power or potentiality of solving their own problems, through reliance primarily upon reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision.
...
There are also "Humanist churches" such as the Ethical Culture Society. Unitarian Universalism is also greatly influenced by Humanist philosophy/teachings, though is also influenced by Liberal Christianity and Neo-Paganism as well. |
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Nov 09, 2009 6:17 PM GMT
Phemt said
center said
I personally know older people who outside of church have noone to talk with or help them out.
That's sad.
Yes it is sad. It is sad that members of society (and often one's own family) have became indifferent to the needs of the old, needy, and unfortunate among us. The fact is, often the only means of support, community, for such people is found in churches. Political action and gov't programs certainly have a place, but those things often can never give some people the personal sense of community some people find in a church community. I would suggest that atheist learn to look past what we would view as the "silly invisible preaching" found in churches and instead understand the social value church can often play in people's lives. Not all churches are the same; not all churches teach/work against homosexulity. Not all churches focus on "fire and brimstone" preaching. Gays should not support churches working against our interest though (don't be Gay Uncle Toms). We should understand there is a big difference between the teachings/practice of the Pentecostal and Southern Baptist churches compared to the United Church of Christ and Episcopal Church. |
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Nov 09, 2009 9:34 PM GMT
phemt saidmaximumrisk saidI dont like the description of an atheist. I believe there is something, but I wouldnt dare to say that I know what or who it is. In the end every religuos Person is playing russian roulette with their afterlife. In the end only one can be right all the others go to hell or what so ever.
For me, I celebrate Christmas and everything like any other Person too, you dont need to believe in good or the bible in order to share a special day with Family and friends.
I prefer the term "Humanist" because it tells what I do believe:
http://www.ihumanism.org/intro/10points.html
First, Humanism believes in a naturalistic metaphysics or attitude toward the universe that considers all forms of the supernatural as myth; and that regards Nature as the totality of being and as a constantly changing system of matter and energy which exists independently of any mind or consciousness.
Second, Humanism, drawing especially upon the laws and facts of science, believes that we human beings are an evolutionary product of the Nature of which we are a part; that the mind is indivisibly conjoined with the functioning of the brain; and that as an inseparable unity of body and personality we can have no conscious survival after death.
Third, Humanism, having its ultimate faith in humankind, believes that human beings possess the power or potentiality of solving their own problems, through reliance primarily upon reason and scientific method applied with courage and vision.
...
There are also "Humanist churches" such as the Ethical Culture Society. Unitarian Universalism is also greatly influenced by Humanist philosophy/teachings, though is also influenced by Liberal Christianity and Neo-Paganism as well.
I got to remember the term. Seems fitting. |
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Nov 10, 2009 8:15 AM GMT
I'm glad somebody brought up Humanists... my grandfather established a Humanist group in the '50s in Long Island, NY that is still going on to this day. Trust me, my friend, this is nothing like a church, even if they meet sunday mornings and sit in rows).They work in the community, not because Jesus told them to or because they want to go to fairy land when they die, but because that's what they feel is the right thing to do on a shared planet.
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious
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Nov 10, 2009 8:19 AM GMT
Do vegetarians go to steakhouses?
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Nov 10, 2009 9:33 AM GMT
M. Jesus may love you!
But.............everybody knows your a dickhead.
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Nov 10, 2009 11:21 AM GMT
Pattison saidM. Jesus may love you!
But.............everybody knows your a dickhead. Be a brave boy Patty, and tell us who M is? |
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Nov 11, 2009 2:54 AM GMT
Hunter9 saidI'm glad somebody brought up Humanists... my grandfather established a Humanist group in the '50s in Long Island, NY that is still going on to this day. Trust me, my friend, this is nothing like a church, even if they meet sunday mornings and sit in rows).They work in the community, not because Jesus told them to or because they want to go to fairy land when they die, but because that's what they feel is the right thing to do on a shared planet.
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious "I am a Humanist, which means, in part, that I have tried to behave decently without expectations of rewards or punishment after I am dead"
Kurt VonnegutSeveral Christians claim that if there is no God there is no reason to live a moral life. I think that is very telling of their personal sense of morality: they need the fear of punishment. Humanists attempt to live a moral life not because they believe God is watching, but because that is how Humanists give their own life meaning. Humanist seek to greatest good for humanity here on earth. Maybe that is why the Humanist symbol is the happy human.  |
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Nov 11, 2009 4:45 AM GMT
Hunter9 said
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious No one did. That's why He is the creator. The Creator is self-existing "I AM THAT I AM" |
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Nov 11, 2009 11:54 PM GMT
center saidtereseus1 saidhow did you all come to become Atheists?
I have just as much evidence for the existence of a god or gods as I have evidence for the existence of leprechauns, SpongeBob, My Little Pony or Brer Rabbit. If you do not believe leprechauns exist, then you can surely understand why I do not believe any gods exist.
However, my mind is open. Convince me. What evidence do you have to demonstrate your deity exists? Why should I believe your deity exists instead of say, Zeus or Isis or the Big Bad Wolf? But dont we all live to believe in something. If there is nothing to believe in...then whats the point of living....? |
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Nov 12, 2009 12:01 AM GMT
tereseus1 saidBut dont we all live to believe in something. If there is nothing to believe in...then whats the point of living....? Uh.. no? You can just live your life and have a blast doing so, thats what I do? |
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Nov 12, 2009 12:05 AM GMT
JayneCobb saidtereseus1 saidBut dont we all live to believe in something. If there is nothing to believe in...then whats the point of living....?
Uh.. no? You can just live your life and have a blast doing so, thats what I do? well i believe in a superior being....I don't buy the concept that his/her/its name is god however. As History can never be believed.....hence the name his-story. I just believe in the idea that there is a possibility of something...even though i have no idea what it is. |
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Nov 12, 2009 6:52 AM GMT
Blackguy4you saidHunter9 said
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious
No one did. That's why He is the creator. The Creator is self-existing
"I AM THAT I AM" And this is the beauty of religion... because people can be told absolute nonsense and believe it likes it's the word of God. |
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Nov 12, 2009 7:11 AM GMT
phemt said
The fact is, often the only means of support, community, for such people is found in churches. THAT'S what is sad, that people would have no social life outside of a church group, such that as they age, that's all they have. phemt said
I would suggest that atheist learn to look past what we would view as the "silly invisible preaching" found in churches I take issue with religious belief in few instances: 1. Literalists, but only because they as so much fun to argue against. 2. Theocrats, who somehow believe it is the will of their diety to enforce their religious beliefs on the rest of society. 3. Proselytizers, because without evidence, you can't, at least not with me. phemt said
and instead understand the social value church can often play in people's lives. I DO understand that. At the same time, I would advise people to not put all of their eggs in one basket, even on the social level. phemt said
Not all churches are the same; not all churches teach/work against homosexulity. Not all churches focus on "fire and brimstone" preaching. Gays should not support churches working against our interest though (don't be Gay Uncle Toms). Scroll up and read my post where I give a detailed list on a particular group, because they prove every point you posted above. phemt said
We should understand there is a big difference between the teachings/practice of the Pentecostal and Southern Baptist churches compared to the United Church of Christ and Episcopal Church. The UCC beat all the Xtian denominations to homo acceptance. |
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Nov 12, 2009 4:22 PM GMT
Hunter9 saidBlackguy4you saidHunter9 said
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious
No one did. That's why He is the creator. The Creator is self-existing
"I AM THAT I AM"
And this is the beauty of religion... because people can be told absolute nonsense and believe it likes it's the word of God. OK then, since you think my answer is absolutely nonsense-tell us. Who created the Creator? |
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Nov 12, 2009 5:54 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidHunter9 saidBlackguy4you saidHunter9 said
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious
No one did. That's why He is the creator. The Creator is self-existing
"I AM THAT I AM"
And this is the beauty of religion... because people can be told absolute nonsense and believe it likes it's the word of God.
OK then, since you think my answer is absolutely nonsense-tell us.
Who created the Creator? A created A. Theist say God created God; Naturalist claim the Universe created it-self. In otherwords Both claim "A" created "A". I find it hard to believe/understand how anything could create itself, but clearly somehow this did happen. Theist claim "God is self-created" but are unable to explain how this could be. Naturalist also haven't explain how the universe just "come into being itself (as far as I know there is no such theory). On this level both theories are equal in my view - neither side can explain the process how their thing came into being. I give the Naturalist explaination an advantage though because it don't add another unseen/supernatural level (i.e., GOD) to their explaination. One can "explain" anything saying "God did it". Why does the Sun raise? God does it and we had better keep him happy. "Why are people getting sick"? God makes people sick because they are sinners (e.g., during the black plague). The Naturalist explaination let us know people didn't get sick because of God punishing them, but because of germs (even if people didn't know that during the time). Washing your hands, and making sure the water supply is clean are much better ways of saying healthy than "asking forgivenss for your sins. I don't know all the answers, but naturalist explainations seems to be the better approach and have a better track record compared to theist explainations. |
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Nov 12, 2009 9:32 PM GMT
phemt saidBlackguy4you saidHunter9 saidBlackguy4you saidHunter9 said
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious
No one did. That's why He is the creator. The Creator is self-existing
"I AM THAT I AM"
And this is the beauty of religion... because people can be told absolute nonsense and believe it likes it's the word of God.
OK then, since you think my answer is absolutely nonsense-tell us.
Who created the Creator?
A created A.
Theist say God created God; Naturalist claim the Universe created it-self.
In otherwords Both claim "A" created "A". I find it hard to believe/understand how anything could create itself, but clearly somehow this did happen. Theist claim "God is self-created" but are unable to explain how this could be. Naturalist also haven't explain how the universe just "come into being itself (as far as I know there is no such theory). On this level both theories are equal in my view - neither side can explain the process how their thing came into being. I give the Naturalist explaination an advantage though because it don't add another unseen/supernatural level (i.e., GOD) to their explaination. One can "explain" anything saying "God did it". Why does the Sun raise? God does it and we had better keep him happy. "Why are people getting sick"? God makes people sick because they are sinners (e.g., during the black plague). The Naturalist explaination let us know people didn't get sick because of God punishing them, but because of germs (even if people didn't know that during the time). Washing your hands, and making sure the water supply is clean are much better ways of saying healthy than "asking forgivenss for your sins. I don't know all the answers, but naturalist explainations seems to be the better approach and have a better track record compared to theist explainations. No! you are absolutely incorrect- theists make no such claim about God creating God. The claim theist make is that God is the only uncreated being in existence. He is self existing. He was not created. And why does there have to be an explanation for God? Perhaps there just isn't one. Perhaps it all begins and ends with God. The Alpha and Omega. The I AM THAT I AM. I may be naive, but would God be God if we had an explanation for Him? I think not. But anyhow God is eternal. And eternal cannot and does not have a cause. Thus God doesn't have one. Questions about His beginnings/creation are quite pointless. |
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Nov 12, 2009 9:57 PM GMT
phemt saidBlackguy4you saidHunter9 saidBlackguy4you saidHunter9 said
By the way, who created the Creator? just curious
No one did. That's why He is the creator. The Creator is self-existing
"I AM THAT I AM"
And this is the beauty of religion... because people can be told absolute nonsense and believe it likes it's the word of God.
OK then, since you think my answer is absolutely nonsense-tell us.
Who created the Creator?
A created A.
Theist say God created God; Naturalist claim the Universe created it-self.
In otherwords Both claim "A" created "A". I find it hard to believe/understand how anything could create itself, but clearly somehow this did happen. Theist claim "God is self-created" but are unable to explain how this could be. Naturalist also haven't explain how the universe just "come into being itself..."
But yes, Naturalists do claim that the universe created itself. All of us theists find this belief truly remarkable. Naturalists cannot logically explain their beliefs in the creation of the universe since their theory is absurd. For it stands to reason that in order for the universe to have created itself, the following would be the case: 1. That the universe is sentient. Yet no naturalist believes this to be the case. 2. That at the moment prior to the universe creating itself – it didn’t exist, but yet it did exis. So it both didn't exist and yet existed simultaneously - in order for it to create itself. This is an impossibility. And hurts anyone’s head. 3. Ex nnihilo,nihil fit So there are only 3 answers to the creation of the universe and reality: 1. A higher power did it. ( I will call this higher power God) you don't have to. 2. The universe created itself 3 Nothing created the universe. It has always existed. It is eternal and there was no creation. Those are the only logical 3 choices - if you can think of a 4th let me know. You are then left to eliminate the impossibles. And whatever you are left with no matter the improbable-that is your answer. |
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Nov 12, 2009 10:54 PM GMT
to OP come on.. that´s almost as absurd as asking if any evangelical ministers have gay lovers  |
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Nov 13, 2009 2:23 AM GMT
Lostboy saidto OP
come on.. that´s almost as absurd as asking if any evangelical ministers have gay lovers
Me me. I can answer that one:  |
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Nov 13, 2009 4:35 PM GMT
phemt saidLostboy saidto OP
come on.. that´s almost as absurd as asking if any evangelical ministers have gay lovers
Me me. I can answer that one:
come on now - look at those lips - can't you just imagine them wrapped around certain appendages? i think he's orally skilled. i'd do him |
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Nov 13, 2009 4:37 PM GMT
Blackguy4you saidphemt saidLostboy saidto OP
come on.. that´s almost as absurd as asking if any evangelical ministers have gay lovers
Me me. I can answer that one:
come on now - look at those lips - can't you just imagine them wrapped around certain appendages?
i think he's orally skilled.
i'd do him Funny you say that because I often thought the same thing about Ted's Mouth/lips. |
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Nov 13, 2009 5:08 PM GMT
Its been mentioned but atheist are welcome and often found in Unitarian Universalist congregations. Yah UUs!
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Nov 13, 2009 5:09 PM GMT
kinetic saidIts been mentioned but atheist are welcome and often found in Unitarian Universalist congregations. Yah UUs! I am one of them |
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Nov 13, 2009 9:32 PM GMT
phemt saidBlackguy4you saidphemt saidLostboy saidto OP
come on.. that´s almost as absurd as asking if any evangelical ministers have gay lovers
Me me. I can answer that one:
come on now - look at those lips - can't you just imagine them wrapped around certain appendages?
i think he's orally skilled.
i'd do him
Funny you say that because I often thought the same thing about Ted's Mouth/lips. Just looking at Teddy's lips give me a boner. |
