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In response to "Republicans are Authoritarian at Heart" - here is a real, substantive example of how Democrats are Authoritarian at heart:

From the Health Care bill (a.k.a. HR 3962 "Affordable Health Care for America Act")

* An individual who does not at any time during the taxable year maintain acceptable health care coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her own qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.

Failure to pay the additional tax will subject the individual to some or all of the following:

Civil Penalties:

Section 6662a: an accuracy related payment of 20 percent of the underpayment attributable to the health care tax, based on negligence or disregard (the former includes lack of a reasonable attempt to comply and the latter includes an intentional disregard of rules or regulations) of substantial understatement, if the understatement of tax is sufficiently large.

Section 6663: a fraud penalty of 75 percent of the underpayment, if the government can prove faudulent intent to avoid taxes by clear and convincing evidence.

Section 6702: a $5,000 penalty for taking a frivolous position on a tax return

Section 6651: delinquency penalty of .5 percent of the underpayment, each month, up to a maximum of 25 percent of the underpayment

Section 7203: misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year

Section 7201: felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years

Source:
Thomas A. Barthold
Chief of Staff
Joint Committee on Taxation
Congress of the United States

I do believe that Government has to be Authoritarian, which is what this is an example of. This is totally different from christian talaban republican's insisting on imposing their morals on the public. I believe your example of fines and fees includes offenses from the individual to corporations who are under the health care proposal obligated to have insurance. This like forcing car insurance on everyone is for the benefit of everyone. So I propose you either get insurance or pay the fee charged those without insurance which goes into a pool to pay for medical costs for the non insured. All you health care reform haters will love it once it goes into affect

All those rules sound like the federal government wants to end people using hospital ERs as free health care.

don´t you have to insure your car before you can drive it? Evil, bad government.

realifedad said I do believe that Government has to be Authoritarian, which is what this is an example of.

But that is completely antithetical to the founding principles of the country. This country was formed by people looking to free themselves from authoritarian government rule (the British).

realifedad saidI believe your example of fines and fees includes offenses from the individual to corporations who are under the health care proposal obligated to have insurance.

No, this applies to individual citizens, not corporations.

I do wish to thank you, realifedad, as you are always respectful in your disagreement with me.

Lostboy saiddon´t you have to insure your car before you can drive it? Evil, bad government.

The government is compelling us to purchase something just because we are citizens. If you are driving a car, you are on public roadways, so I can see the logic behind that.

If a person chooses to not get health insurance, and refuses all hospital and medical care and would rather just be sick or die in their own home, don't they have a right to do so?

Where is it in the Constitution that says the government can force us to purchase anything?

And this, coming from the "pro-choice" Democrat party who believes a person has a right to choose what to do with their body.

lol, southbeach, we were just on another site where conservatives were growling at liberals who were saying car insurance should not be mandatory. The conservative angle seems to be that car insurance is absolutely necessary.

And this is from one of your insurance sites,

"This is why, upon deep reflection, even the most strident libertarian has to agree that mandatory insurance laws are indeed fair. If insurance were entirely optional, then responsible drivers would have to purchase uninsured motorists coverage, and in an anarchist insurance environment, those premiums would be astronomical. In other words, the responsible drivers would be paying for the sins of the irresponsible, while in our current system, whatever its flaws, the reverse is mostly true."

http://www.carinsurancerates.com/news/62-mandatory-insurance-laws-are-they-fair.html

Right now in your healthcare you have the insured paying for the uninsured. The uninsured go to ER and in turn the hospital ends up increases charges for services. The insurance companies simply raise rates or increase deductibles, passing the increase back onto the the insurance payer.

Leave it to a stupid ignorant Republican boob to post a complete lie.

How it REALLY is:

People who have the financial means, but REFUSE to provide health insurance for themselves and their dependents, are subject to fines, etc.

People who CANNOT AFFORD to provide health insurance for themselves and their dependents, will have it paid for by the government (taxpayers).

Webster666 saidLeave it to a stupid ignorant Republican boob to post a complete lie.

How it REALLY is:

People who have the financial means, but REFUSE to provide health insurance for themselves and their dependents, are subject to fines, etc.

People who CANNOT AFFORD to provide health insurance for themselves and their dependents, will have it paid for by the government (taxpayers).

Musclehead, or whatever your name is.

I quoted directly from the bill. Have YOU read the bill?

Nothing I quoted was incorrect.

And by the way, isn't the phrase "stupid, ignorant, Republican boob" kind of redundant? You could have just used the word Republican. Everyone on here knows that all Republicans are stupid, ignorant boobs (who are also evil).

When the Senate gets through with the House bill, you won't even recognize it.
So, you can quit running around screaming and whining like Chicken Little.

southbeach1500 said

* An individual who does not at any time during the taxable year maintain acceptable health care coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her own qualifying children

even though he or she can afford it is a greedy selfish prick and has no place being a member of society. If he or she cannot afford it a subsidy will be provided so he can afford it. If he blows the subsidy on hookers and booze instead of contributing to his own healthcare he will be penalized.

_chuck_ said

southbeach1500 said

* An individual who does not at any time during the taxable year maintain acceptable health care coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her own qualifying children

even though he or she can afford it is a greedy selfish prick and has no place being a member of society. If he or she cannot afford it a subsidy will be provided so he can afford it. If he blows the subsidy on hookers and booze instead of contributing to his own healthcare he will be penalized.

And it says that where in the Constitution? That the government can penalize lawful behavior? Better yet, now the government (or you) get to decide who should and should not be a member of society?

southbeach1500 saidAnd it says that where in the Constitution? That the government can penalize lawful behavior? Better yet, now the government (or you) get to decide who should and should not be a member of society?

Ya! Like, since when can the government levy a tax on things like income, and stuff.

MunchingZombie said

southbeach1500 saidAnd it says that where in the Constitution? That the government can penalize lawful behavior? Better yet, now the government (or you) get to decide who should and should not be a member of society?

Ya! Like, since when can the government levy a tax on things like income, and stuff.

Since the Constitution was amended to allow it to do things like levy a tax on things like income, and stuff.