Intra-gay bashing.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 10:06 AM GMT
    OK, I know the theme of this topic has probably been posted many times here, but recently something has set me off again, and I feel like it needs others' opinions.

    I get SERIOUSLY offended at the thought of gay bashing. Calling gay guys "faggot" or on the street or violence against our community makes me want to blow up a building or something. It's not ok when straight people do it. But it's especially not ok when people from the gay community do it.

    It's a phenomenon that I see becoming more and more prevalent with today's society. Many gays today think that men or women within our culture who choose to express themselves through fashion or activities or actions that appear "cliche" or "subversive" or for lack of a better phrase "too gay" are doing harm to our image to the general public.

    To me, that is homophobic.

    For instance today I was chatting with a fellow on this website. I told him I worked in musical theatre, and he responded with "Oh so you're really gay then." Last time I checked, we both like men. We're both gay.

    Another guy I was chatting with via iChat and as a joke I sent him a picture of myself in an old Halloween costume: Dorothy from The Wizard of Oz. His response: "gross." He abruptly ended the conversation.

    The beauty of our culture, the gay culture, is that we cross all boundaries of societal expectations. We can be a drag queen, a leather daddy, and yes a realjock, and what do we all have in common? We all are searching for a same-sex partner. It's accepting and embracing all of the facets of our culture that will lead to the advancement of our plight, not hiding the parts that conventional society deems less than acceptable.

    I understand personal preference of masculinity vs. femininity in a partner or a lover, but when it comes to general acceptance within our culture, NO ONE has the right to look down upon anyone else in our community simply because they're different. Because when it comes down to it, we're all the same. And we're all in this together.

    And just so everyone remembers how Stonewall was started...




    ~Alex

  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Nov 13, 2009 10:25 AM GMT
    I think people should be accepted for who they are but it's wrong to associate those things with what being gay means because it's not true and only alienates people who are dealing with coming out or who are gay themselves that don't fit those lifestyle choices.

    Being gay just means you are attracted to the same sex. Being into drag, or leather, or any of that other stuff is not part of being gay it's just how some gay people decide to live their lives or are what they are into.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 10:29 AM GMT
    kencarson said
    Calling gay guys "faggot" or on the street or violence against our community makes me want to blow up a building or something. It's not ok when straight people do it. But it's especially not ok when people from the gay community do it.

    omg stop being such a faggot.

    Don't act like an over-sensitive minority. That's only going to make people hate you more. And get over the meaning of the word. The longer you hold on to the concept that it's derogatory and extremely insulting, the more you're going to fuel that concept into the word. The word does not define itself, your interpretation does. So stop polluting the "gay scene" with your "preserve the bad meaning of this word" propaganda.

    Embrace your faggidity you faggot. Make the enemy word your new friend, and then other enemies will no longer be able to use your new friend as an enemy to psychologically hurt you.

  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Nov 13, 2009 10:55 AM GMT
    But you could also say embracing that word is just another way of being controlled by it or others that would speak it~!
  • drypin

    Posts: 1798

    Nov 13, 2009 10:59 AM GMT
    Alex,

    I fear this website is not the best place to find open ears for that message. It is called "RealJock" after all... a name designed to court gay men who identify with a certain image and lifestyle.

    Perhaps you notice how critical many of the members are of themselves in other forums? I'm thinking of the "would you like yourself standing naked in front of the mirror" thread in particular. I wouldn't expect people who honestly answer that they don't like themselves to have oodles of extra empathy for others who fit their ideal even less. I don't mean that as a criticism, simply an observation.

    On a side note: I think it's cool that you worked in musical theater and I'd love to see you on stage one day! :-)

    -Jim
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 11:22 AM GMT
    To Jakebenson:

    In some ways I agree with you and I don't hold the word "faggot" as completely derogatory. It's the meaning behind it. Or calling something "too gay" or the like that I take issue with.

    To Anto:

    Those things ARE associated with the gay community, though they are not what makes us gay. I thought I said that in my original message. I'm preaching acceptance of all facets of the culture of gaydom. Us being afraid of them means other people will be as well, if not more so.

    And Jim, thanks. I know this thread may be ill-received here. But I still thought it needed saying.

    ~Alex
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 11:49 AM GMT
    Why is it about gays

    I find loud, high pitched, easily excitable, overly expressive people with a tendency to be judgmental and think highly of themselves when they're actually riddled with obvious insecurities very annoying and have no desire to associate with them

    And when I say it out loud, it makes perfect sense, at least to me. Yet were supposed to tolerate behavior, we don't find appealing in anyone gay or straight, because the individual is gay and this is how they choose to express their gayness

    If someone chooses to attach annoying personality traits to their race, relgion or sexuality it shouldn't protect them from criticism on that basis

    I've had conversations that go along the lines of

    "Haha Drew what are you doing Gay's don't play sports, stop pretending to be straight"
    "Well maybe you faggots don't, but i do"
    "Dude, you can't say that it's offensive"


  • Little_Spoon

    Posts: 1562

    Nov 13, 2009 3:00 PM GMT
    STFU FAG!

    D;<
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 3:09 PM GMT
    DanielH saidSTFU FAG!

    D;<



    Damn I hate code icon_mad.gif

    hmmm, le-ss see... Tuff Stag? Gas Tuft? Fast Gut? Fat Tugs GF?





    ...can't we all just have a group hug? icon_wink.gif
  • Little_Spoon

    Posts: 1562

    Nov 13, 2009 3:13 PM GMT
    BodyWork4 said
    DanielH saidSTFU FAG!

    D;<



    Damn I hate code icon_mad.gif

    hmmm, le-ss see... Tuff Stag? Gas Tuft? Fast Gut? Fat Tugs GF?





    ...can't we all just have a group hug? icon_wink.gif



    Yes.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 3:15 PM GMT
    Thanks Daniel!

    Opps, sorry... that was my tongue icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 3:17 PM GMT
    I think what gets gay guys called fag is generally when they wear their being gay on their sleeves. What I'm saying by this is that some of us come off with our being gay like as if its a badge of honor or something to be shown off. Kind of like saying, 'look at my badge, isn't it beautiful' these guys live in a way that basicly rubs being gay in the faces of everyone they come in contact with. This kind of behavior, I think, is what gets some of us called faggot. To me, as a gay man, its not 'the issue' in my life that makes me, its not something that I think needs to be exibited for all to see. being gay is just a part of who I am, and its not everyones business, its just an attraction I have to my own sex and doesn't define me. Its not some stand along issue that should overshadow every other aspect of who I am as a person. so sometimes it does bother me when some of us wear being gay on their sleeves or like a badge of honor, so to speak, but I won't be bashing them. I'll just let them live and learn and I'll do the same.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 3:25 PM GMT
    DanielH saidSTFU FAG!

    D;<


    Um, let's see....
    STFU =Shut the f*ck up
    FAG = I guess 'fag"
    and his emoticon is wearing an ass hat and has a tear in it's eye as it frowns? {grin}icon_lol.gif

    To the OP:
    ANYone that posts a thread about anything and uses Varla Jean in a good way is OK in my book! :-)
    However, consider this:

    Bike-Curious!


  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 13, 2009 3:27 PM GMT
    Not for nothing, but not being liked or attractive to someone isn't bashing.

    Getting the shit beat out of you because you're gay is bashing.
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Nov 13, 2009 3:45 PM GMT
    I prefer torturing our own people. Its more fun.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 3:54 PM GMT
    la la la... Agree with both OP, in the "do what you wanna do and don´t feel the need to conform to heteronormative dictates of how you should behave" but also on a pragmatic level agree with SexyDrew that

    "I find loud, high pitched, easily excitable, overly expressive people with a tendency to be judgmental and think highly of themselves when they're actually riddled with obvious insecurities very annoying and have no desire to associate with them"

    Though I don´t care if they are straight or gay...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 4:14 PM GMT
    Unlike most of the other people on this forum, I can appreciate where you're coming from kencarson and agree with what you're saying.

    I still find it hard to believe that some GAY people find it so difficult to accept other GAY people who are different. I especially find it quite ironic that Anto says that drag is something that you're "into" and that that's how that gay person "decided" to live their lives. Can you not appreciate the fact that that is how they are and accept it just like you ask people to accept the fact that you identify as a masculine gay man--a realjock?

    Though I agree LostBoy, that we can't get along with everyone but there is a very important distinction between those natural tendencies such as being effeminate and "behavior" or mindsets of being judgemental or thinking more highly of oneself.

    On a final note, Timberoo, bashing IS physical violence and I'm sure kencarson knows that and is referring to verbal harrassment. Try to pay attention to what he's trying to say and his message rather than reply to merely point out the use of a wrong word.

  • drypin

    Posts: 1798

    Nov 13, 2009 4:17 PM GMT
    JP85257 saidI prefer torturing our own people. Its more fun.


    And they have such girly screams! It's a real kick.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 4:34 PM GMT
    I don't necessarily believe what you experienced is gay bashing. We all have our preferences. Some men prefer masculine men while some men prefer feminine men. Some don't care. Its the expressions of preferences toward you that sound particularly distasteful and immature.

    As far as directing the word faggot toward each other. I've heard this likened to African Americans calling one another the N word- which I personally believe is in a different category of its own because of historical antecedents. However, I worked at a gay community centre for about 8 months and some equal rights advocates condoned and subtly approved of gays calling one another faggots as it claimed ownership of that term (i.e., taking back what's ours like the word queer)-- though queer isn't as derogatory as faggot.

    Either way, I prefer honesty over being ignored on this site icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 4:35 PM GMT
    I wouldn't go as far as calling your examples "bashing" but I get your point. My college roommate was a drag queen. I couldn't believe the hurtful things other gays would say about him. One time I we went out the bars here in Chicago and I overheard at least a few people talking among themselves what a "freak" he was. I have several times had discussions defending another gays right to be themselvels (e.g., fem or into drag) with otherwise openmind gays. I usually try to remind them a lot of people find us freaks for being gay and to remind them how that feels. Personally I am not into drag, and find it odd, but we shouldn't put down other gays for being/doing what they want/are.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 4:44 PM GMT
    Hear, Hear!
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Nov 13, 2009 4:56 PM GMT
    I always find it interesting to hear guys being labeled as acting 'heteronormative' for not acting 'homonormative'.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Nov 13, 2009 5:05 PM GMT
    I like masc guys too but honey you are so breathtaking u could wear a poodle skirt and I would still marry ya!lol
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Nov 13, 2009 5:21 PM GMT
    Those things ARE associated with the gay community, though they are not what makes us gay. I thought I said that in my original message. I'm preaching acceptance of all facets of the culture of gaydom. Us being afraid of them means other people will be as well, if not more so.

    You might as well just be talking about human acceptance then because it's not a strictly gay issue. It's just that some people who happen to like drag are gay (as an example), as are the people who happen to be gay that don't like it.

    If you are trying to get that kind of message across, then that is how you should be treating it, not like it's what it means to be gay, because obviously it's not and it only alienates people who are gay that don't fit those stereotypes.

    It defeats the purpose of the message to adhere to the gay slant of it, again, while alienating gays who are not like that. It's like preaching a message of non-prejudice while supporting prejudice.
  • Anto

    Posts: 2035

    Nov 13, 2009 5:38 PM GMT
    I especially find it quite ironic that Anto says that drag is something that you're "into" and that that's how that gay person "decided" to live their lives. Can you not appreciate the fact that that is how they are and accept it just like you ask people to accept the fact that you identify as a masculine gay man--a realjock?

    I accept it as being how they are, I just don't accept it as what it means to be gay.