For the Bible Told Me So

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    Nov 18, 2009 7:06 PM GMT
    For the Bible Told Me So is an amazing documenatry that explores homosexuality, religion and what the Bible REALLY says about it all. If you haven't already seen it, I highly recommend watching it. There are 9 segments, about 90 minutes in total and all can be viewed for free on YouTube.

    If you've already seen it, what'd ya think?

  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Nov 19, 2009 3:25 AM GMT
    I bought a copy and sent it to my religious nut mother.
    I haven't heard a word back from her. But, then, we are estranged.
    I wish that video was required viewing in every school in America.
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    Nov 19, 2009 5:29 AM GMT
    I just watched the whole thing.

    I just feel such a strong empathic link to the troubles and hardships to these families. I've always felt so deeply about civil rights...
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Nov 19, 2009 7:55 AM GMT
    Don't get the facts mixed up with the crazy ass notions these religious nuts have about the bible
    It doesn't make any sense ... and it doesn't deal with reality
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    Nov 19, 2009 11:29 PM GMT
    It's crazy that people believe what they're told without having the sense to read the actual scripture and make any effort to truly understand its meaning.
  • GQjock

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    Nov 19, 2009 11:51 PM GMT
    Religion Is a Virus
    Here is a selection from an interview with Richard Dawkins telling us how this virus is passed on through the generations by parenets teaching their children these horrible religious fairy tales

    When a child is young, for good Darwinian reasons, it would be valuable if the child believed everything it's told. A child needs to learn a language, it needs to learn the social customs of its people, it needs to learn all sorts of rules -- like don't put your finger in the fire, and don't pick up snakes, and don't eat red berries. There are lots of things that for good survival reasons a child needs to learn.

    So it's understandable that Darwinian natural selection would have built into the child's brain the rule of thumb, "Be fantastically gullible; believe everything you're told by your elders and betters."

    That's a good rule, and it works. But any rule that says "Believe everything you're told" is automatically going to be vulnerable to parasitization. Computers, for example, are vulnerable to parasitization because they believe all they're told. If you tell them in the right programming language, they'll do it. Computer viruses work by somebody writing a program that says, "Duplicate me and, while you're at it, erase this entire disk."

    My point is that the survival mechanism that makes children's brains believe what they're told -- for good reason -- is automatically vulnerable to parasitic codes such as "You must believe in the great juju in the sky," or "You must kneel down and face east and pray five times a day." These codes are then passed down through generations. And there's no obvious reason why it should stop.
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    Nov 19, 2009 11:55 PM GMT
    Q: What's the difference between the bible and a bazooka bubble gum wrapper?
    A: Absolutely nothing.

    Take the bible out of this equation. It has no place in the discussion at all. We don't all believe in the bible. We don't have to. Only those living in biblical theocracies need worry about the damned thing. The next time somebody waves a bible in your face, take out a gum wrapper and point out the fact that your gum wrapper does not mention homosexuality at all, therefor, that's the fucking law.


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    Nov 20, 2009 12:00 AM GMT
    I think it's a great tool to help people with religious convictions reconcile a desire to be supportive of gay people (usually recently out family members or friends) without going against their faith.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:01 AM GMT
    And for people that couldn't give two squats about it, it's a major fucking pain in the ass, not to mention a popular shield against rational discussion of rights.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:27 AM GMT
    McGay saidAnd for people that couldn't give two squats about it, it's a major fucking pain in the ass, not to mention a popular shield against rational discussion of rights.


    But who are we to judge? Judging someone else for their beliefs only lets them justify doing so in return. The only way to break the cycle is to show them by example how to accept other's views and opinions without letting it conflict with your own beliefs. Love and acceptance...that's what we're after here, so let's give a little so we can get some, lol.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:29 AM GMT
    ugh i just sent the link to my mom, wonder what she'll say.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:29 AM GMT
    Bullshit. Anyone holding up what is to me a work of fiction as the basis for inflicting their morality on me is a total work of bullshit. Read my bubble gum wrapper, it tells me that all bibles should be recycled into biofuel. I don't try to push that on anyone, I keep it to myself, as should bible thumpers and their bubble gum wrappers.

    Additionally, I could give a turd about love and acceptance. All I want, like anyone, is my due, like everyone. I don't want your love. I don't want your acceptance. I have all the love and acceptance I need with my friends and family.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:29 AM GMT
    GQjock saidReligion Is a Virus
    Here is a selection from an interview with Richard Dawkins telling us how this virus is passed on through the generations by parenets teaching their children these horrible religious fairy tales

    When a child is young, for good Darwinian reasons, it would be valuable if the child believed everything it's told. A child needs to learn a language, it needs to learn the social customs of its people, it needs to learn all sorts of rules -- like don't put your finger in the fire, and don't pick up snakes, and don't eat red berries. There are lots of things that for good survival reasons a child needs to learn.

    So it's understandable that Darwinian natural selection would have built into the child's brain the rule of thumb, "Be fantastically gullible; believe everything you're told by your elders and betters."

    That's a good rule, and it works. But any rule that says "Believe everything you're told" is automatically going to be vulnerable to parasitization. Computers, for example, are vulnerable to parasitization because they believe all they're told. If you tell them in the right programming language, they'll do it. Computer viruses work by somebody writing a program that says, "Duplicate me and, while you're at it, erase this entire disk."

    My point is that the survival mechanism that makes children's brains believe what they're told -- for good reason -- is automatically vulnerable to parasitic codes such as "You must believe in the great juju in the sky," or "You must kneel down and face east and pray five times a day." These codes are then passed down through generations. And there's no obvious reason why it should stop.


    Dawkins is the last person you should want to quote. He's said some really strange things which leads me to doubt his hold on reality.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:30 AM GMT
    abm1985 said
    McGay saidAnd for people that couldn't give two squats about it, it's a major fucking pain in the ass, not to mention a popular shield against rational discussion of rights.


    But who are we to judge? Judging someone else for their beliefs only lets them justify doing so in return. The only way to break the cycle is to show them by example how to accept other's views and opinions without letting it conflict with your own beliefs. Love and acceptance...that's what we're after here, so let's give a little so we can get some, lol.


    Well said! For those who are raised having the Bible used as a weapon against them, overcoming the brainwashing that has occured over a lifetime can be more difficult than just saying 'fuck it.' This documentary is a great tool to help people understand both sides.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:33 AM GMT
    There was no 'fuck it' involved. It was an epiphany. I can only hope others get their epiphanies.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:35 AM GMT
    McGay saidThere was no 'fuck it' involved. It was an epiphany.


    I know, I was using 'fuck it' as a state of mind/attitude.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:37 AM GMT
    I know. There's not too many ways 'fuck it' works.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:44 AM GMT
    McGay saidBullshit. Anyone holding up what is to me a work of fiction as the basis for inflicting their morality on me is a total work of bullshit. Read my bubble gum wrapper, it tells me that all bibles should be recycled into biofuel. I don't try to push that on anyone, I keep it to myself, as should bible thumpers and their bubble gum wrappers.

    Additionally, I could give a turd about love and acceptance. All I want, like anyone, is my due, like everyone. I don't want your love. I don't want your acceptance. I have all the love and acceptance I need with my friends and family.


    I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm agnostic myself and I agree that religion has caused many problems for people in the past. But at the same time, I understand that it's very important to many people, and I respect that in them. I treat people as I wish to be treated. I don't like it when people belittle the things which I hold important, and I'm not going to do that to someone else either. My mom used to tell me, "You get more bees with honey then vinegar". And I've seen that method work first hand. People who felt so strongly against homosexuality completely change their tune when they see kindness and strength from someone in the face of such adversity.

    I'm just saying...I think you should rethink your strategy.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:47 AM GMT
    I treat people better than they expect to be treated. I treat people better than they treat me. None of that matters 1 bit. I don't believe and it is my right not to believe and to therefore reject every tenent that is your faith and in the eyes of american justice, our views are supposed to be equal. They are not. The bible is not the law. I don't care that it helps people. So does prozac, so does good head. Neither of those dictate the law either. I'm glad that people have something that helps them. I don't need that kind of help and I certainly can make up my mind about it. I don't need evangelizers to show me their bibles. Ever.

    Comparing the homosexual situation to bees and honey is cute, but it's naive. The people who are our opponents couldn't give a shit if you serve them tea and biscuits and smile all the time. They hate your homosexuality. They hide behind their comic book to fake a reason why.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:52 AM GMT
    McGay saidI treat people better than they expect to be treated. I treat people better than they treat me. None of that matters 1 bit. I don't believe and it is my right not to believe and to therefore reject every tenent that is your faith and in the eyes of american justice, our views are supposed to be equal. They are not. The bible is not the law. I don't care that it helps people. So does prozac, so does good head. Neither of those dictate the law either. I'm glad that people have something that helps them. I don't need that kind of help and I certainly can make up my mind about it. I don't need evangelizers to show me their bibles. Ever.

    Comparing the homosexual situation to bees and honey is cute, but it's naive. The people who are our opponents couldn't give a shit if you serve them tea and biscuits and smile all the time. They hate your homosexuality. They hide behind their comic book to fake a reason why.


    I'm not saying I disagree with your sentiments. I know it's not fair. But life is often not fair. I just don't think contributing to the strife is going to help matters.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:54 AM GMT
    Being pleasant to the opposition hasn't helped. The definition of insanity is to repeatedly make the same effort and expect a different outcome, or something like that. Anyway, there's no room in the discussion for the bible unless I can bring in my bubble gum wrappers
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:59 AM GMT
    McGay saidBeing pleasant to the opposition hasn't helped. The definition of insanity is to repeatedly make the same effort and expect a different outcome, or something like that. Anyway, there's no room in the discussion for the bible unless I can bring in my bubble gum wrappers


    I'm completely lost...what's your point?!
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    Nov 20, 2009 1:05 AM GMT
    McGay saidBeing pleasant to the opposition hasn't helped. The definition of insanity is to repeatedly make the same effort and expect a different outcome, or something like that. Anyway, there's no room in the discussion for the bible unless I can bring in my bubble gum wrappers


    But just try to see things from their perspective for a minute. Take all that anger and passion you feel and reverse it...because they feel just as strongly about their convictions. We have to stop getting wrapped up in this "us verses them" mentality. It's exactly what's keeping us from the unity we desire.

    Wouldn't you respect a christian who told you that just because they have faith in the Bible and God, it doesn't mean they hate you or want to keep you from having equal rights or finding happiness with the man you love?

    I've met christians like that, so I know they exist. I'm just trying to get more of them to feel that same way.
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    Nov 20, 2009 12:21 PM GMT
    I don't hate people who don't believe in the words my bubble gum wrappers. Bazooka Joe says it's wrong.
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    Nov 20, 2009 5:18 PM GMT
    McGay saidI don't hate people who don't believe in the words my bubble gum wrappers. Bazooka Joe says it's wrong.


    Well, I hope you're content being angry at the world, because it's pretty obvious that your attitude about it isn't going to change anything. If anything, it's just going to make things worse.

    The world has not been fair to many people. And honestly, there are vast groups of people who have been through far worse than you or I could even imagine. No, I don't know all that has happened to you...I don't know why you have such disdain for entire populations of people you don't understand, but I do know you still have your life and that's one thing for which you can be thankful.

    Life is too short to waste it being so angry. Everyone is just doing the best they can. Can people get better? Sure. Can we do what we can to help the world change? Of course. But pouting about how unfair it all is does nothing but make everyone lose respect for you.

    I know I'm being a bit harsh with this post, but you're a 49 year old man, and I think it's about time you began behaving like one. Your attitude does nothing but set back the cause of equality and justice for gay men everywhere.